I just don't know what to say

[eddiehimself]

Well after i bought my Z custom projection crash a whole 5 MONTHS ago, it's already started to crack. This is supposed to be one of the heaviest cymbals you can buy. I'm gonna try drilling it out but i don't even think that's gonna help, it'll probably just crack somewhere else. So i really don't know what to do. If i can't stop my cymbals from cracking i might just give up on drumming because i really don't have the money to be buying new sets of cymbals every 6 months.

[T.Underhill]

If you got into drumming to not spend money then I'd say give it up lol. JK. Could it be your technique that's causing the premature cracking? If you're buying these new you can return them within a year as long as they haven't been replaced before.

http://www.zildjian.com/en-US/support/returnpolicy.ad2

[eddiehimself]

Right i'll take it back to the shop this weekend but they might claim that i was playing it "abusively". It's a crash ride what the hell do they expect? If that fails then i guess it's a little session with Dr. Drill and just hope that it doesn't crack anywhere else.

[T.Underhill]

Right i'll take it back to the shop this weekend but they might claim that i was playing it "abusively". It's a crash ride what the hell do they expect? If that fails then i guess it's a little session with Dr. Drill and just hope that it doesn't crack anywhere else.

I'd bypass the shop and mail it directly. I always include all purchase information and a professional looking letter with just the details specified on the company's return policy site. Good luck

[sticksnstonesrus]

Well after i bought my Z custom projection crash a whole 5 MONTHS ago, it's already started to crack. This is supposed to be one of the heaviest cymbals you can buy.

"Heavy" doesn't mean that it is the most durable. A misconception.

[drumtechdad]

I haven't cracked a cymbal in 44 years of playing. And I still play a couple made in the mid-1960s.

[eddiehimself]

I'd bypass the shop and mail it directly. I always include all purchase information and a professional looking letter with just the details specified on the company's return policy site. Good luck

Well the problem is that i don't HAVE any purchase information (like a receipt). Also if i send it to them i have to bloody pay to post it to the US.

sticksnstonesrus: Yeah i'm thinking maybe i could just get a lighter cymbal like an A custom medium crash which i won't have to hit as hard to get the best out of it.

[mbettis]

I just do know what to say.

Don't hit that cymbal quite that hard. You exceeded its threshold for pain.

When you get its replacement, just do a little testing. Find out where the limit of its potential for volume is, and then don't hit beyond that. Should last quite awhile if you don't give it more than it can handle.

Later,
Matt

[eddiehimself]

I just do know what to say.

Don't hit that cymbal quite that hard. You exceeded its threshold for pain.

When you get its replacement, just do a little testing. Find out where the limit of its potential for volume is, and then don't hit beyond that. Should last quite awhile if you don't give it more than it can handle.

Later,
Matt

Sadly it's not as simple as that. With the a custom crash i've got i can see that if i hit it more than at about a medium hardness it doesn't get any louder or more explosive but with the Z custom it does actually have a much better sound when it's running on max. I really don't want to send it all the way to the US, i have no idea how long it'll take and it'll probably cost like £50 or something.

[jonescrusher]

It's obviously a bit more complicated than hitting it too hard, although that's more than likely the root of the problem - if the cymbal is angled properly ie. fairly steeply for a crash ride, then you are far less likely to cause damage. If it sits near horizontal then you're asking for trouble. Avoid hitting it so the stick jars against the cymbal; hit through the cymbal with a glancing blow. There's an outside chance of it being a defective cymbal, but very unlikely. Best put down to experience. It's a common mistake that players with poor cymbal technique will buy thicker heavier cymbals expecting them to be able to stand up to it. It may work out better to go for a lighter faster cymbal that will force you to readjust.

[mbettis]

Sadly it's not as simple as that... ...but with the Z custom it does actually have a much better sound when it's running on max....

I can dig that. Sounds kinda like a very high performance engine. ...A narrow band between bogging and breaking.

Thanks,
Matt

[sticksnstonesrus]

"Rock" cymbals are the perfect money-makers. Takes a good swat to make em' sing right cause of the thick bow & bell. Cymbal is a cymbal and the basic concept in metallurgy is that fatigue will eventually crack the cymbal. Even if it took a hundred years.

The hard-hitting rock/metal/punk/gospel/jazz/big band/etc all share a commonality with that. Hit em, break em', replace them....money in the bank. For cymbal makers of course

[eddiehimself]

"Rock" cymbals are the perfect money-makers. Takes a good swat to make em' sing right cause of the thick bow & bell. Cymbal is a cymbal and the basic concept in metallurgy is that fatigue will eventually crack the cymbal. Even if it took a hundred years.

The hard-hitting rock/metal/punk/gospel/jazz/big band/etc all share a commonality with that. Hit em, break em', replace them....money in the bank. For cymbal makers of course

I know that but i'm not really too bothered if they lasted say 3 or 4 years i could probably live with that but 6 months is a bit annoying considering how expensive they are.

Jonescrusher, that's the mistake i made and yeah i'm just gonna start using lighter more crashable cymbals from now on.

[drumhead61]

Well the problem is that i don't HAVE any purchase information (like a receipt). Also if i send it to them i have to bloody pay to post it to the US.

sticksnstonesrus: Yeah i'm thinking maybe i could just get a lighter cymbal like an A custom medium crash which i won't have to hit as hard to get the best out of it.

OK...I will be the dummy and ask...how in the hell is it that you do not have a receipt for such a purchase from only 5 months ago! Shoot, I put those receipts in their own file when I purchase stuff like that...what is UP WITH THAT? Sorry, to hear that...maybe the store can help you out (doubt it) but if it were me I would certainly look into that...maybe they can help work between you and Zil or not? I know that I would exhaust all avenues before I put a drill to a 5 month old Z custom.

Best of luck,
JIM

[trysthedrummer]

Eddie, where did you buy the cymbal from? Was it local round where we are?

Thomas Haake from Meshuggah uses the HHX line, never really breaks any. Maybe it's a mix of bad technique when it comes to hitting them. What sticks do you use?

-Trys

[jer]

The store you bought it from should be able to re-print or photocopy a receipt for you, I can't imagine you'd get anywhere on a warranty claim without this. I've had dealings with returning a cymbal (did it through the music shop), there were no questions asked about how I used the cymbal, sticks, angles etc...

I've been through my fair share of cymbals, and I've come to the conclusion that if I'm going to shell out the $$ for high end cymbals, I'm not using them all the time. Strictly for recording and live purposes, rehearsals get the old beat up broken ones. Haven't broken a cymbal since I started doing this. Sure they sound like garbage, but it's just a rehearsal.

[sticksnstonesrus]

I've been through my fair share of cymbals, and I've come to the conclusion that if I'm going to shell out the $$ for high end cymbals, I'm not using them all the time. Strictly for recording and live purposes, rehearsals get the old beat up broken ones. Haven't broken a cymbal since I started doing this. Sure they sound like garbage, but it's just a rehearsal.

Can't say I haven't broken any cymbals since going that very same route, but it sure does cut down on how much I pay out for higher end stuff. Vaults aren't cheap.

[eddiehimself]

Eddie, where did you buy the cymbal from? Was it local round where we are?

Thomas Haake from Meshuggah uses the HHX line, never really breaks any. Maybe it's a mix of bad technique when it comes to hitting them. What sticks do you use?

-Trys

I got it from Bad Dog in Hull. Also yeah i use carbon sticks which are a bit stronger than your average wood affair.

[Togg]

You mentioned that this has happened before... which tends to point to the fact you are doing something wrong.

I have been playing since the end of the 70's and only ever cracked one cymbal and that was due to it being a very cheap entry level cymbal that was not up to the job.

So my advice would be to check the angle of your cymbals, check how you hit them,(don't lay into them square on, strick them with a swoosh to the side. Ask yourself if you do really need to hit them at the hardest pace to get the sound out you like, to be honest there is a point at which a cymbal will just go no louder no matter what.

Maybe change your sticks, all these things will stop you ever cracking another cymbal, otherwise be prepared to keep having to replace them.

As for the one that is broken, if you bought it on a credit card or debit card there will be some record of the transaction and you do not need a reciept.

Having said that you might have to convince them you were not using it improperly to get a full refund.

[trysthedrummer]

I got it from Bad Dog in Hull. Also yeah i use carbon sticks which are a bit stronger than your average wood affair.

Should have got a receipt really for it. They are right nobs there, seriously. Talk about service...

I mean you can't really pop in and say "my crash I bought from you has broken, can I exchange it for a new one" (there is a year guarantee on Zildjian's/Sabians I think?!) because they won't remember you buying it. Unless they look at their records, but even if they do the guy in charge there won't want to anymore about the problem.

Last year (around six months ago) I took a Jojo Mayer dvd downstairs, got a pair of sticks and paid for the two. Got outside and checked the case but no dvd's in it! Turned out that there was 3 different companies operating in that store and the guy at the till shouldn't have put it through as it wasn't theirs! Cheeky buggers...

[eddiehimself]

Should have got a receipt really for it. They are right nobs there, seriously. Talk about service...

I mean you can't really pop in and say "my crash I bought from you has broken, can I exchange it for a new one" (there is a year guarantee on Zildjian's/Sabians I think?!) because they won't remember you buying it. Unless they look at their records, but even if they do the guy in charge there won't want to anymore about the problem.

Last year (around six months ago) I took a Jojo Mayer dvd downstairs, got a pair of sticks and paid for the two. Got outside and checked the case but no dvd's in it! Turned out that there was 3 different companies operating in that store and the guy at the till shouldn't have put it through as it wasn't theirs! Cheeky buggers...

The knobs. The thing is though that they've recently changed the store round so that now all the classical and piano stuff is in a completely different building and now the guitars and drum stuff are upstairs and the downstairs is just for students. I went in last weekend and bought a condenser microphone. Maybe i'll threaten to return that, citing "if i have to buy a new cymbal, well i guess i'll need some money."

Togg. I've put the crashes at a steeper angle and i'm playing it with the stick at a steeper angle too so i still get the wash but i can hear the sticking more too. I'll make sure i try and play more like this from now on.

[MR DRUMS]

Well from what I know Zildjians Z Custom specially the new generation tend to break really quick (the old first generation of Z Custom were the best rock cymbals Zildjian ever made), so it could be not only a mix of bad technique but also a bad quality cymbal manufacturing , if you play hard stuff try Sabian AA rock and or AAX Metal crashes they are heavy, yes! but really easy to play and don`t have to hit em hard to get a good sound from them, also try the Paiste Signature Power Crashes they are soooooo sensitive that doesn`t feel you are playing a rock/heavy cymbal.

Good Luck!

[eddiehimself]

Well from what I know Zildjians Z Custom specially the new generation tend to break really quick (the old first generation of Z Custom were the best rock cymbals Zildjian ever made), so it could be not only a mix of bad technique but also a bad quality cymbal manufacturing , if you play hard stuff try Sabian AA rock and or AAX Metal crashes they are heavy, yes! but really easy to play and don`t have to hit em hard to get a good sound from them, also try the Paiste Signature Power Crashes they are soooooo sensitive that doesn`t feel you are playing a rock/heavy cymbal.

Good Luck!

the funny thing about that is that it was actually a toss-up between sabian AAX metal crashes and z customs but they had these in the shop so i bought them. I'll definetly try them out then.

[LeeLovesSabian]

Damn.....How hard do you hit it?

[Strangelove]

You might also try Paiste's Cun8 formula cymbals. I've read that the higher copper content causes less chance of cracking, which makes sense as copper is more pliable and less brittle than tin. I have never cracked any 2002's, but I sure have cracked alot of expensive Zildjans in my life - hihat tops and crashes both.

[mugglesport]

to be honest there is a point at which a cymbal will just go no louder no matter what.


This is what I was going to say.

Also, make sure your cymbals can move around on your stands...don't over tighten the wingnut (do it just enough so the cymbal won't fly off). Then, make a glancing blow to the side of the cymbal, not dead on. Hitting dead on not only will break the cymbal, it also will mute it, making it not as loud.

[eddiehimself]

You might also try Paiste's Cun8 formula cymbals. I've read that the higher copper content causes less chance of cracking, which makes sense as copper is more pliable and less brittle than tin. I have never cracked any 2002's, but I sure have cracked alot of expensive Zildjans in my life - hihat tops and crashes both.

Hmm that's quite interesting because most of the cheap cymbals i've used have cracked and they're made out of B8 bronze although maybe paiste 2002s are different. But yeah maybe a brand-change is in order then.

[Crazy+Hands]

One word: Meinl. I had been a sabian purest for years but after cracking two HHX crashes, one being a custom 20" stage crash just as the 2yr warranty expired i made the switch. Zildjians are even worse if your a heavy player, it seems like they are spending more $$$ developing cymbals designed to work in the jazz/indie rock/pop field.

All i can say about the Mb20 crashes is WOW...I just got a 17/19 combo and these are easily the best sounding, most dynamic cymbals i have ever played. The beauty is the response, the 19" heavy crash reacts to the lightest hit, even when you use your fingers the cymbal opens up immediately with shimmering, slightly dark, sharp cutting tone that has to be experienced to believe...simply amazing for such a heavy piece of bronze, you get that feeling like you've just struck a gong! Plus every cymbal they make has a 2yr warranty.

Sabian more of less copied this idea and now offers it on ALL cymbals. Every cymbal ive sent back to them was cracked due to excessive playing and they have sent me a new one each time, no questions asked and i continually thank sabian for their dedicated customer service. Zildjian and Paiste are notoriously less generous with their warranties.

Im still keeping the cracked HHXs for practicing with my band and individually (off to Saluda for repairs!). The meinls will only be used for studio recording and live shows and maybe the occasional practice when i want to hear the glorious combination of German design and turkish craftsmanship that Meinl delivers. Buy a set of B8s/xs20s/apx's or Saludas or PST/alphas for practice and save the good ones for when you really need them...and keep in mind that while writing new music, you will likely be putting more stress on your cymbals and the rest of your gear because your movements are free and unchecked.

[darkstar442]

ok im srry but i dont get how you guys keep cracking all of these nice cymbals. i have cheap pst5 and woohan and i have never goten a single hairline crack and iv been playn for around 7-8 years and i have always played fast heavy death metal i also hit really hard

[bilkay]

If you keep hitting them that hard, they're gonna keep breaking. You might need to mic your kit.

[Strangelove]

ok im srry but i dont get how you guys keep cracking all of these nice cymbals. i have cheap pst5 and woohan and i have never goten a single hairline crack and iv been playn for around 7-8 years and i have always played fast heavy death metal

The Wuhan I cannot explain (except if it's a China, maybe it doesn't get the same frequency of strikes as a crash or crash/ride), but pst5's are sheet instead of cast, which could explain the difference, as they are probably more durable to excessive beatings.

[eddiehimself]

The Wuhan I cannot explain (except if it's a China, maybe it doesn't get the same frequency of strikes as a crash or crash/ride), but pst5's are sheet instead of cast, which could explain the difference, as they are probably more durable to excessive beatings.

Definetly not. I cracked 2 sheet bronze cymbals.

If you keep hitting them that hard, they're gonna keep breaking. You might need to mic your kit.

That's not the reason i play loud. It's just the way i play.

Guys thanks for reccomending me all these brands but i'm really not made of money. I can't just go out and buy a set of MB20s and pst5s at the same time. The other problem is that as a band we never actually seem to play live so if i'm gonna start handling my cymbals like the silver cutlery and crystal glassware i might as well not even bother getting expensive cymbals to begin with. So really this money i was wasting on shitty old z customs i could have just bought about 8 pst5s or B8 cymbals and just called it that? Brilliant.

[jonescrusher]

. So really this money i was wasting on shitty old z customs i could have just bought about 8 pst5s or B8 cymbals and just called it that? Brilliant.

That's the point - there's nothing wrong with the quality of the Z Customs, over your technique issues/playing with non-wood sticks. But to that extent, now you know this it would make sense to play budget line cymbals....

[drumtechdad]

The answers you need are all here in this thread--and it's not a different brand of cymbals.

Learn the point at which the cymbals don't get any louder. Learn to not exceed that point.

Learn how to play cymbals, not hit them. A lesson or two might help, I'd spend money on that before spending more on cymbals.

Lose the carbon sticks.

I'm still playing cymbals I bought 40+ years ago. I don't hit that hard anymore--different kind of music--but I used to. My kid plays with an extremely loud band, unmiked, with oak 747Bs. He's the hardest hitter I've ever seen. He's never cracked a cymbal, either. He has good technique and doesn't exceed what the cymbal will put out.

He's currently gigging with about $1400 worth of cymbals, so it's worth learning these things.

[eddiehimself]

The answers you need are all here in this thread--and it's not a different brand of cymbals.

Learn the point at which the cymbals don't get any louder. Learn to not exceed that point.

Learn how to play cymbals, not hit them. A lesson or two might help, I'd spend money on that before spending more on cymbals.

Lose the carbon sticks.

I'm still playing cymbals I bought 40+ years ago. I don't hit that hard anymore--different kind of music--but I used to. My kid plays with an extremely loud band, unmiked, with oak 747Bs. He's the hardest hitter I've ever seen. He's never cracked a cymbal, either. He has good technique and doesn't exceed what the cymbal will put out.

He's currently gigging with about $1400 worth of cymbals, so it's worth learning these things.

Yeah i guess i'm gonna start using wood sticks instead now. It's a lot easier to stomach paying £8 every month then hundreds every 6 months! I know it's not all about a different brand of cymbal and i've taken all the advice on this thread and used it.

[shaolin_cb]

don't tighten the cymbals too much on the stand

[DrumEatDrum]

I used to play all Z Customs. I love the way they sound.

Years ago, I joined a loud rock band. After a while, to get more volume to keep with all the amps, I started to use bigger sticks. Because I was using bigger sticks and hitting harder, I needed thicker cymbals to take the abuse. Because I was using thicker cymbals, I needed bigger sticks to get those cymbals to move. Now, because I'm using bigger sticks, I need thicker cymbals to take the abuse, and I needed bigger sticks to get those cymbals to move.
It just sort of get snowballing, but meanwhile the people I'm playing are telling me "louder, more, yeah, keep that up!".

When it all ended, I'm worked my way down, small sticks, thinner cymbals, and I think I'm better off for it. But dang, I do sometimes miss how great the Z Customs sound when you wack them really hard. :-)

[darkstar442]

actually westerner i use my chinas 3 times as much as any other cymbal

[Nodiggie]

I just do know what to say.

Don't hit that cymbal quite that hard. You exceeded its threshold for pain.

When you get its replacement, just do a little testing. Find out where the limit of its potential for volume is, and then don't hit beyond that. Should last quite awhile if you don't give it more than it can handle.

I agree here. Very good rule to follow.

I've been bashing cymbals for a little while now and have only broken one. My Z-Customs have been bashed 3 nights a week (full Metal sets) for the past year and a half. Still no signs of cracks.
Not to say that there could have been mfg. issues such as porosity on your cymbal. I have very small porosity pits on a couple of spots but not on or near the edges. Sorry to hear the bad news.

[ZildjianMan1023]

I haven't cracked a cymbal in 44 years of playing. And I still play a couple made in the mid-1960s.

ill be honest.

i have a zbt 16 inch crash....

this frosty lawn thing deicded to jump it one day when i left it on its stand in the middle of my familys basment.

has a weird fold in the edge of the cymbal... after that id be sure id crack it..

65 dollar cymbal. still havent cracked it to this day

must be your technique my friend.

let us know what happens =/

[eddiehimself]

To be honest, zildjian man, i don't know what will happen. I really want a replacement but what i don't want is to have to pay some ridiculous amount for postage only to find out that they're not gonna even replace my cymbal.

[eddiehimself]

well guys i went back to wood today and i've started hitting my cymbals with the tip right on the edge, letting the actual wash of the cymbal come out rather than smashing it out of the poor thing. To be honest it still sounds okay, i'll see if i can get a replacement but i don't even think it's gonna be doing much more cracking now that i've sorted it ;)

[ZildjianMan1023]

To be honest, zildjian man, i don't know what will happen. I really want a replacement but what i don't want is to have to pay some ridiculous amount for postage only to find out that they're not gonna even replace my cymbal.

agreed,

that eternally sucks

it does,

id hate for that to happen to me

id be so frustrated i would then break a cymbal