Sabian's new project One of 100. Burying Cymbals

[BattleArmor]

http://www.sabian.com/EN/newsevents/One_of_100.cfm

I find this very interesting. If you are too lazy to read, basically they have 100 Vault Artisan Rides that they are burying and then diggind up mid 2009. They will be tested and then sold. They want to solve the "age old question" about burying your cymbals.

What do you guys think? Agian, I think it is really interesting.

[Rezn8]

Looking forward to the findings. My buddy bought a pair of Tosca cymbals a while back that were "too bright" for his tastes. I told him to bury them like kim-chi in the backyard for a few days and he looked at me like I was crazy, but then the idea grew on him.

It brought up all these questions like for how long and waiting until it rains to do it, etc. I'll send him this link.

[drumguyfromWI]

I know some drummers like dark, earthy-sounding cymbals, but this is ridiculous! haha

gotta love Sabian for trying innovative new ideas with their cymbal making.

[caddywumpus]

The secret key ingredient for that awesome cymbal sound? Worm poop!

Love your new avatar, drumguyfromWI...

[HeadRush]

you think I should bury my paiste alpha thin crash?
haha

[Numberonefan]

Quote from Sabian “So the specialists in the SABIAN Vault have buried the cymbals in an undisclosed spot near the SABIAN factory in eastern Canada.”

I hope they have already dug these up or they could pull into work tomorrow morning to find the front lawn dug up! LOL

[TenPastTen]

There are some very cool photos and a silly countdown clock on here.http://www.sabian.com/EN/products/1of100_index.cfm

I give Sabian all the credit in the world for experimenting with this "urban legend" and making a pretty successful public relations event out of it.

Much like everyone else, I am eagerly awaiting the chance to hear one, or at least see to what degree the burying altered the sound.

[caddywumpus]

Quote from Sabian “So the specialists in the SABIAN Vault have buried the cymbals in an undisclosed spot near the SABIAN factory in eastern Canada.”

I hope they have already dug these up or they could pull into work tomorrow morning to find the front lawn dug up! LOL

Man, that would suck to be digging for it...CLANG! "Uh, found one!"

[zambizzi]

Maybe it'll be like Pet Cemetery and the cymbals will come back eeeeeevil....

[guidrummer]

Great! Now Sabian can have hand hammered Artisan labor and burying and digging labor built into the cost of these Vault Cymbals. Don't expect these to be a bargain.

[caddywumpus]

Great! Now Sabian can have hand hammered Artisan labor and burying and digging labor built into the cost of these Vault Cymbals. Don't expect these to be a bargain.

Their list price is $800, which is $4 cheaper than the list price of the Zildjian 24" K Light Ride...

[GRUNTERSDAD]

you think I should bury my paiste alpha thin crash?
haha


I don't think that is the question. I think the question is, "should I ever dig them up?" That's a joke by the way.

If it does seem to have some effect will they offer it as a service?

[caddywumpus]

I don't think that is the question. I think the question is, "should I ever dig them up?" That's a joke by the way.

If it does seem to have some effect will they offer it as a service?

Sure...they'll custom bury your cymbals. Send it in, and they'll return it to you within 6-8 weeks, having been buried for 8 months!

[RobertM]

Yes, I've heard of this development tactic, if you want to call it that. A friend of mine who trained as a hardcore jazz guitarist (got selected to big-time jazz camps, almost went to jazz conservatories/prestigious jazz programs for college, etc.) years ago said that some of the jazz drummers he was surrounded by in those days (at these camps and campuses) actually did this--they would bury their cymbals, especially the ride cymbals, in the ground and dig them up weeks/months later in order to get certain sound characteristics. I've never tried it, though.

Of course, if you really want earthy, trashy jazz cymbals, then you could just go try out Bosphorus Traditionals, Masters, Turks, or Hammers, or definitely check out Istanbul Agop's Signature line (including the new Epoch and Om series). WAY BETTER jazz cymbals, in my opinion, than most of what Zildjian and Sabian can muster these days.

[drumguyfromWI]

Great! Now Sabian can have hand hammered Artisan labor and burying and digging labor built into the cost of these Vault Cymbals. Don't expect these to be a bargain.

they aren't supposed to be a bargain.

the Artisan Ride is basically Sabian's Holy Grail of rides in the first place.

and since there are only 100 of the buried Artisans, it's pretty much meant to be a collector's item. and collector's items are never cheap.

assuming that they sound better as a result of the burying, I'm guessing that these cymbals will have a list price of about $1000 USD.

[guidrummer]

Their list price is $800, which is $4 cheaper than the list price of the Zildjian 24" K Light Ride...

I'm not so sure that is list price. It says $800 USD which may be the US net sell price. If so, this is a real rip off.

[Strangelove]

Whatever. I suppose that since 'dark" became such a marketing fad, that next ads we will be seeing will be "dark and dirty"........................................

[DamoSyzygy]

How is 'dark' a marketing fad?
Its simply a description of sound...

[sk8erpnkmt369]

Now this is very interesting. I give sabian a lot of credit for being inovative for us drummers.

also...

I may be stupid but couldn't you just buy the regualar cymbal and burry it yourself for a couple months and save some major bucks?

[king fail]

Now this is very interesting. I give sabian a lot of credit for being inovative for us drummers.

also...

I may be stupid but couldn't you just buy the regualar cymbal and burry it yourself for a couple months and save some major bucks?

...because they do not know if the cymbals will be changed for better or worse.
If you buried it, and really screwed it up, it's your loss.
They're doing this, so we don't have to

[diosdude]

Man, the first thing i would probably do, upon receiving them would be... i dunno....
POLISH THE HELL OUT OF THEM.

Buried cymbals. Gimme a freaking break. Hope somebody made a recording of them before they got buried or it will be like, "Oh man! The burying process bonded molecules of earth to the specially formulated sabian alloy yielding the most sonically balanced, frequency responsive tone! By far the biggest technical advancement in modern cymbal history! These cymbals are the best sounding cymbals ever made! Pre-Order your vintage 2014, aged 5 year cymbals today!!"

Personally i think it's gonna go something like: "Man, these cymbals sound exactly like they did before, only now, they look like dung"

Off topic: what ever happened to the urban legend of cryogenically treating cymbals with like liquid nitrogen? Does that do anything?

[crazyballa17]

Well supposedly the 20" K Custom Dry Ride I bought a few years ago went through this same burying process.

The guys at the store I bought them at said that's why it sounded darker that their other rides and the discoloration of it. well whatever they did I love this cymbal, one of my favorites.

Peace Easy

[Levi]

Hasn't anyone else noticed that they are doing this to 21" Artisans, which is a size not available to the public, unless you custom order it. So no matter if burying them did or didn't change the sound, Sabian can say that it did, and no one will have a control model to test it out. That being said, I look forward to the results and always love the new products Sabian puts out.

[Bish]

Hasn't anyone else noticed that they are doing this to 21" Artisans, which is a size not available to the public, unless you custom order it. So no matter if burying them did or didn't change the sound, Sabian can say that it did, and no one will have a control model to test it out. That being said, I look forward to the results and always love the new products Sabian puts out.

That is a very good point.

Still, I'm also excited to see the results, its certainly an interesting experiment.

[cjbee]

The idea that burying a cymbal (for only 8 months) will change anything, is a myth. SABIAN knows it's a myth...as does every manufacturer. It's just an opportunity to sell an 800 dollar cymbal to some fool who swears there is a difference. Great marketing...because there will be no control model to compare against.

Well, actually, I don't doubt they haven't made a bunch of 'control' rides to the same specs to set aside and let age normally over the 8 month period...but...we'll never be privy to that information. Do you think they're going to release these cymbals saying "ah guess what...it's a bunch of crap...burying them did nothing, but here ya go anyway..."

[tbmills]

It's just an opportunity to sell an 800 dollar cymbal to some fool who swears there is a difference.

i dont know about that. i mean this is a member of the big three...
i dont think 80k really makes a big difference to theyre budget...

i mean why sell 100 pies for $800 each = $80,000
when you can sell 10,000 pies for $300 each = $3,000,000

marketing? definitely.
publicity? sure.

but money??? no way.

[Steamer]

I'm not so sure that is list price. It says $800 USD which may be the US net sell price. If so, this is a real rip off.


Yes that's alot of $$$ and to add old veterans like me who have seen this tried time and time again by other players with their cymbals know it doesn't make any difference except if some direct ground water sits against them leaving some nasty rust marks for all the trouble involved. Sound wise forget it your ear won't notice anything between the before and after being in the ground for that short of time.

Want the sound and character of a 20-50 year old cymbal BUY a 20-50 year old cymbal :}

[veggo32]

this is a big time gimmick. they were probably laughing their asses off when they came up with this idea. Unless you have 800 dollars to the throw away do not give sabian the dignity of buying one. This is a scam and they are benefitting in every way.
I'm insulted and appauled.

What they should of done is.
Perform this publicity stunt in order to advertise their brand yes, but give the cymbals away as prizes to show the drumming public that, you know what we know this doesn't work but here you go anyway, remember us the next time you purchase new cymbal/s.
But know, they want's to rake it in on all ends.

I'm canadian and would never buy Sabian, canadians should be getting these cymbals for a lot less than we are. No importing fees duties or nothing, but instead Sabian jacks the price up. Their pricing is worse than Zildjian's considering Z. is coming from the U.S.
That really sucks. Believe me there is nothing up here to be envious of.
Shitty weather, crapy politicians and over priced drums and cymbals and almost everything else. USA all the way!!
Can't wait to share the same currency as the U.S.

[cjbee]

i dont know about that. i mean this is a member of the big three...
i dont think 80k really makes a big difference to theyre budget...

i mean why sell 100 pies for $800 each = $80,000
when you can sell 10,000 pies for $300 each = $3,000,000

marketing? definitely.
publicity? sure.

but money??? no way.
Of course it's about the money dude...they're trying to run a business.

[BattleArmor]

Of course it's about the money dude...they're trying to run a business.

I agree with tbmills. Sabian really didn't need to do this, and if they wanted to try to scam everyone and get more money they would have made black cymbals.

[wert90]

well i guess the guys that did it had a laugh. look at the photos, better than a day in the office ey!

so its a collectors item..... you take care of it.....
if you play it and get stick marks all over it...... you may want to clean it......
you get my point?

or you could just not play it and leave in its special box....... but.... then...... why would you care that it sounds better?!

[maddrummr]

I bet Zildjian will be putting their K's through the vacuum of space, Now thats innovation.

[DamoSyzygy]

I'm canadian and would never buy Sabian, canadians should be getting these cymbals for a lot less than we are. No importing fees duties or nothing, but instead Sabian jacks the price up. Their pricing is worse than Zildjian's considering Z. is coming from the U.S.
That really sucks. Believe me there is nothing up here to be envious of.
Shitty weather, crapy politicians and over priced drums and cymbals and almost everything else. USA all the way!!
Can't wait to share the same currency as the U.S.
You should move to the US then, where they get it sooo good compared to everyone else, have better politicians, great health care and heaps of job opportunities.

I visited Canada when I when to the Sabian factory. Beautiful country, beautiful people, beautiful cymbals.

By the way, Sabian doesnt create the retail prices for Canada, your Sabian wholesaler does. Take it up with them.

[DamoSyzygy]

Great health care? compared to who? No disrespect meant to any Americans here, but i'm pretty sure Canada has way better health care ..... not that it matters anywho......
Damn, and I thought my sarcasm was clear enough...

Does anybody else think this may be a response to the black cymbals craze? instead of coating them with black paint, Sabian just decided to use dirt....
No.

[BattleArmor]

Damn, and I thought my sarcasm was clear enough...


No.


It was to me at least.

[guidrummer]

If I am going to spend $800 bucks on a cymbal that sounds aged and vintage, I would rather buy something vintage search for an old K, 602, etc.

To me, this seems like a marketing ploy to make a huge profit on these 100 cymbals.
Maybe they'll throw in some excess dirt for free. I can just hear a Sabian worker saying "Hey bury these $400 cymbals out back, we'll dig them up and sell them for $800, eh?"

I also heard that Sabian just laid off 16 workers at the Canada plant so times arent' real good right now for Sabian.

[Deathmetalconga]

There are some very cool photos and a silly countdown clock on here.http://www.sabian.com/EN/products/1of100_index.cfm

I give Sabian all the credit in the world for experimenting with this "urban legend" and making a pretty successful public relations event out of it.

Much like everyone else, I am eagerly awaiting the chance to hear one, or at least see to what degree the burying altered the sound.

Yes, give Sabian credit for exploring this silly myth and getting some exposure for it. Look, they got us talking about it and their company.

A dirty cymbal will of course sound a bit more muffled. Might as well use some carefully placed dampening pads and forgo the drama of "earthing" the cymbals.

It used to be, things that were damaged, dirty, chipped, cracked or torn were put on sale for less. Now they cost more, much more. What's next - will they sell cracked cymbals for a premium if they can get a pro to mess it up: "Dave Weckl cracked this cymbal and signed it right there by the crack, $800."

[joshisaces]

Yes, give Sabian credit for exploring this silly myth and getting some exposure for it. Look, they got us talking about it and their company.

A dirty cymbal will of course sound a bit more muffled. Might as well use some carefully placed dampening pads and forgo the drama of "earthing" the cymbals.

It used to be, things that were damaged, dirty, chipped, cracked or torn were put on sale for less. Now they cost more, much more. What's next - will they sell cracked cymbals for a premium if they can get a pro to mess it up: "Dave Weckl cracked this cymbal and signed it right there by the crack, $800."

hahaha that would be hilarious! XD

[veggo32]

You should move to the US then, where they get it sooo good compared to everyone else, have better politicians, great health care and heaps of job opportunities.

I visited Canada when I when to the Sabian factory. Beautiful country, beautiful people, beautiful cymbals.

By the way, Sabian doesnt create the retail prices for Canada, your Sabian wholesaler does. Take it up with them.


All due respect, but I live here. Does half of your paycheck go to the government?
Thought so. (thanks but I would rather pay for medicare, because I don't thing it will cost me half my paycheck). Property tax is higher, sales tax is higher, cars are more expensive (way more expensive). I can go on and on. Can't wait for the "Americadollar".
No offense but visiting a country for a while and living there are two different things.

Furthermore, Wholesalers/distiributors of Sabian can set prices to a certain extent, they are not allowed to fall below a certain percentage below M.S.R.P. So, ultimately Sabian does have the final say as to pricing.
16 layoffs in a company of just over 100 employees? Sounds like Sabian is adapting the "lean and mean" philosophy.
I hope the burying cymbals gimmick doesn't become an omen for things to come.

[contemplativedrummer]

Well consider the factors that people don't immediately think of: Climate changes, Biological interaction (bacteria, decomposition, etc), movement of liquids (fertilized, impure water w/ minerals and such, animal urine, and plenty of other stuff), and the dirt itself sticking into the cymbal. While Sabian's method of tossing 100 cymbals in a box might not be a good way of exposing these cymbals to the elements, it might at least leave some form of change in the sound. Mostly motivated as a means of garnering attention on the company's "innovation" reputation, I'd say.

But what about the actual premise? What if your Average Joe Drummer decided to entomb his ride? With the profile being changed by pressure from the soil, the finish being worn down from chemical changes (and movement of particles in the soil), and such... wouldn't that certainly add some character to the cymbal, if not "age" it?

[Steamer]

Well consider the factors that people don't immediately think of: Climate changes, Biological interaction (bacteria, decomposition, etc), movement of liquids (fertilized, impure water w/ minerals and such, animal urine, and plenty of other stuff), and the dirt itself sticking into the cymbal. While Sabian's method of tossing 100 cymbals in a box might not be a good way of exposing these cymbals to the elements, it might at least leave some form of change in the sound. Mostly motivated as a means of garnering attention on the company's "innovation" reputation, I'd say.

But what about the actual premise? What if your Average Joe Drummer decided to entomb his ride? With the profile being changed by pressure from the soil, the finish being worn down from chemical changes (and movement of particles in the soil), and such... wouldn't that certainly add some character to the cymbal, if not "age" it?


MAYBE {?} some slight changes noticed over a few years in the ground but not over just a few months in the ground for sure based on this "old wives tale" that's older than me :}

Marketing gimmick and publicity stunt nothing more nothing less...sorry...

I bury anybody's pie in my backyard next to the dead cat for LESS than the extra 300 bucks they are charging on this particular cymbal for this short lived dubious "experiment".

[Strangelove]

I'm just waiting for cymbal and drum manufacturers to catch on to the "Fender road worn" theme that is such a marketing ploy. I hope this is not a prelude to it.

"Recall the vintage dark turkish sound from the ancient Ottoman Empire........................................"

[cjl71178]

kind of sounds interesting, but i don't think i'd buy something like that. do they include a bottle of cleaner...HA!