Saluda Diamond Review

[dkerwood]

So my greatly anticipated Saluda 18" Medium Thin Dark Diamond crash came in today.
http://content.bandzoogle.com/users/leavethursday/images/photos/gallery/2239959.jpg?2
http://content.bandzoogle.com/users/leavethursday/images/photos/gallery/2239960.jpg?2

MMkay... so the review. Please understand that this is an opinion after playing it for a whopping 30 minutes or so. I just like to be impressed out of the box, which might be an unrealistic expectation with a cymbal only a few days out of the manufacturer.

Well, I was slightly disappointed by the look of the cymbal. Maybe I've been screwed up by owning almost exclusively used cymbals, but the shiny bronze didn't look like a professional cymbal. Too orange. Not quite Sabian B8, but not what I expected. I also asked for "extra hammering" and specifically said that I didn't like the look of Avedis Zildjian. Well, there's still not very much on this pie in the way of hammering. Still pretty much a lathe job.

Speaking of lathing, I was shocked how smooth the lathe lines were, especially for a traditional finish. The bronze under the fingers feels more like a Camber and less like a Zildjian. It looks mass produced and cheap to me, although it could just be my lack of experience with brand new cymbals.

Here are some pics for your viewing pleasure:
http://content.bandzoogle.com/users/leavethursday/images/photos/gallery/2239962.jpg?2
http://content.bandzoogle.com/users/leavethursday/images/photos/gallery/2239964.jpg?2
http://content.bandzoogle.com/users/leavethursday/images/photos/gallery/2239965.jpg?2

Ah, but it's all about sound, right?

I have to say upfront that I requested a cymbal to serve the same function as my 18" K Custom Dark Crash, the universally loved crash. It's not exactly there. The Saluda is a lot more clangy than the the K, and a LOT darker, with some obnoxious high overtones (which I hope will mellow out after a few hours' worth of mallet rolls). It feels pretty heavy under the stick, despite being a medium thin model. It's also a lot louder than the K, which I'm not sure how I feel about.

The most interesting thing about this cymbal is that it's completely different sounding than ALL of my other cymbals. I did list for Jamie (at Saluda) all of the cymbals I had and the specific functions I wanted this cymbal to serve. In that, I'm pretty disappointed. I think I'll wait until the metal settles in to REALLY solidify my opinion.

The nice thing about it is that it's got a really neat ride sound and a fantastic bell. It might still work well for a jazz crash/ride, depending on my choices for other cymbals.

For the record, I really want to be in the Saluda camp. I really, really do. I don't know if the cymbal will miraculously change into something fantastic when it breaks in, but for now, I think you get what you pay for.

[crowapollyon]

Well, i hope it turns out how you like. I asked jamie if he could make me a crash like AAXplosion. I hope its alot cheaper too, if not ill just get the AAXplosion with 2 year warrenty.. But let me know in a few days how that new saluda is treating you.

[KalashnikoV]

While I'm sorry to hear your preliminary disappointments, keep optimistic. I've heard about Saludas "opening up" for as much as two weeks after they arrive, and being a totally different cymbal than what had originally disappointed.

A quick look at their forums shows even some hardened Saluda fans being displeased with what they had originally gotten before the cymbals broke in. I hope this holds true for you, too.

Out of curiosity, how long did it take from ordering your cymbal to getting it delivered to you?

[dkerwood]

I'll check back in after a few hours' worth of mallet rolls. That should help the cymbal to settle in a bit.

[bilkay]

I have to say upfront that I requested a cymbal to serve the same function as my 18" K Custom Dark Crash, the universally loved crash.

Will he give you a refund?

'Cause I would just try to get my hands on an 18" K Custom Dark.

[Fiery]

As far as I understand, it is possible to send the cymbal back for additional hammering and/or lathing if the sound is not what you wanted. I would wait for a couple of weeks first, till it's positively broken in.

[dkerwood]

Will he give you a refund?

'Cause I would just try to get my hands on an 18" K Custom Dark.

Yeah, it's not really worth $300 to me. The most I've spent on any cymbal was $90, and I'm trying to keep it that way. :-)

Anyway, I'll do as the other poster recommended and wait until it's totally broken in. I was jamming on it again this afternoon after I posted the review, and I hate it less opposite my 18" Avedis (I ran it opposite my 17" Avedis, 17" A Custom, and 16" HH before the review). We'll see how it breaks in. I've never had a 3 or 4 day old cymbal before.

[Ian]

I like how he will accept pieces back that aren't doing it for his customers, but if you want a cymbal you should buy it. If you want an AAX, buy that. If you want an A Custom Dark, buy that.

He makes his own cymbals, so buy them if you like them.

If you want something else, buy that.

[dkerwood]

I like how he will accept pieces back that aren't doing it for his customers, but if you want a cymbal you should buy it. If you want an AAX, buy that. If you want an A Custom Dark, buy that.

He makes his own cymbals, so buy them if you like them.

If you want something else, buy that.

I just want something that will sit well in my cymbal collection. I told him I wanted it to serve the same function as the K, not necessarily duplicate it. I told him I needed it to be versatile enough to use in my jazz set (alongside a K Custom Flat Ride and a HH Orchestral), and I also told him that I really liked the look of a heavily hammered cymbal (which was my biggest visual disappointment).

I should be able to give him specs and have him create a cymbal that matches those specs. Saluda does advertise that, after all. Since it's all subjective, though, I don't mind if we misalign on the first try. I just want a cymbal that I can be proud to own- which means it has to sound, look, and feel professional.

[larryace]

The bitter taste of poor quality lingers long after the sweet taste of low price is forgotten.

I love that saying.

I'm not stating in any way that Saludas are poor quality so please don't think I'm slamming them because I know zero about them. I've heard great things about their work.

The fact is, you don't like this particular Saluda, it's not your cup of tea. I highly doubt it will transform itself into something you can't get enough of in a month.

I think...if you know what you like, you should buy what you know you want, (18" K Custom Dark Crash) and just fork over the dough, it's so worth it for a lifetime of satisfaction. Trying to save a buck is a waste of time and energy and money. For me, the price and the look doesn't even factor in, it's all about the sound.
I myself could NEVER buy ANY cymbal without hearing it first. Then after you think you've found something you like, you have to take it home and see if it plays well with the rest of the boys and girls. If not, return it and start the process all over until you get a great combination of idiophones.

[mugglesport]

Looking at their online price list, they don't seem significantly cheaper than K Zildjians go for if you shop around.

Do they like REALLY discount from that price list or something? If not, I'd just buy the "real thing" a) because of reputation and b) because those graphics are definitely not my cup of tea.

[dkerwood]

Looking at their online price list, they don't seem significantly cheaper than K Zildjians go for if you shop around.

Do they like REALLY discount from that price list or something? If not, I'd just buy the "real thing" a) because of reputation and b) because those graphics are definitely not my cup of tea.

The list price on this cymbal is $333. The selling price on drumgearonline.com, however, is $139. This particular one I got through a trade deal, so no cash was exchanged.

[dkerwood]

Jamie's response to my concerns thus far:

************************************************** **********
If this is your first hand crafted cymbal, the sound can take a little while to adjust to. They respond very differently than machined cymbals, especially heavy machined cymbals.

I believe your cymbal was a medium-thin dark so we lowered pitch, but some brighter tones will pick back up once the cymbal sweetens a little more.

Thinner cymbals, like yours, take longer to sweeten than heavier cymbals since the percentage of metal that is effected when lathing and hammering is greater than a heavier cymbal. Then a dark cymbal goes through more pounding so these take even longer.

When another cymbal company does a similar type cymbal, it might sit in storage (they oddly call them vaults) for 6 months just to have them cure. Then a cymbal might sit in a music store for 6 more months before being purchased.

Our cymbals are sometimes received within 2-3 days after the last batch of lathing and hammering so it is a big difference.

There have been hundreds of shocking stories from first time Saludians that couldn't believe how much a cymbal can change sound in the first week.

Hopefully you will love the sound.

Jamie
************************************************** **********

He's been fantastic to work with through the whole process, and since I just traded some cymbals that I had no use for, I'm not really out anything. I think I'll give him the benefit of the doubt and see how the cymbal ages for a few weeks.

[dkerwood]

Call me crazy, but I really think it sounds different tonight than it did last night. In fact, a student stopped into my office this morning (9:00 or so) and I showed him the cymbal. We both agreed it had some obnoxious mid-high overtones and an unpleasant low tone. I did about 30 minutes of cymbal rolls on it (gotta love planning period) and then set it in my office so I could go do some real teaching.

Six hours later, I pull it out after school and the same student comes in. We both are shocked, because the Saluda is now significantly more mellow than it was only 360 minutes prior.

I thought that it must have just been the large band room versus my small music room, so I brought it home and was still impressed. The high-mids are still there, but are now much more subdued, and I am fairly confident that they should mellow out over the next days and weeks.

I was tempted to set up some mics and record tonight and then do the same in a few days for comparison, but didn't have a chance.

[Ian]

After reading Jamie's email and your reply it's making some sense to me.

I have a friend that works on some of my cymbals that I don't like or I pick up for cheap prices. He never hands it off to me immediately, but always a week or so after. He demonstrated to me exactly what Jamie describes here and I was shocked that time alone can make all the difference in the metal relaxing after the lathing and hammering.

Also, and Jamie doesn't say this in response to the hammering, but I've heard it. If you like a heavily "hand hammered" cymbal you'll never get the big, wide hammer marks you find on some Sabians and Zildjians. If you actually tried to hammer a cymbal hard enough with a large enough hammer to make this mark you will break it. These marks are created by presses that align top and bottom of the cymbal and make the "hammer" marks. The only "hand" part of it is the placement of the cymbal. My cymbals that my friend has hammered all have marks from hand hammering and the sounds to match, but they do not look like the heavily pressed cymbals you would buy from the major companies. The hammer marks are more pronounced on Jamie's cymbals than on mine.

[crowapollyon]

Call me crazy, but I really think it sounds different tonight than it did last night. In fact, a student stopped into my office this morning (9:00 or so) and I showed him the cymbal. We both agreed it had some obnoxious mid-high overtones and an unpleasant low tone. I did about 30 minutes of cymbal rolls on it (gotta love planning period) and then set it in my office so I could go do some real teaching.

Six hours later, I pull it out after school and the same student comes in. We both are shocked, because the Saluda is now significantly more mellow than it was only 360 minutes prior.

I thought that it must have just been the large band room versus my small music room, so I brought it home and was still impressed. The high-mids are still there, but are now much more subdued, and I am fairly confident that they should mellow out over the next days and weeks.

I was tempted to set up some mics and record tonight and then do the same in a few days for comparison, but didn't have a chance.


Hope it changes into what you want. Once its done setting completely please do take some recording =)

[mbettis]

...If you like a heavily "hand hammered" cymbal you'll never get the big, wide hammer marks you find on some Sabians and Zildjians. If you actually tried to hammer a cymbal hard enough with a large enough hammer to make this mark you will break it....

I dunno about that. I've found that with the correct anvil and hammer, I can hit a cymbal about as hard as I can hit without it breaking.

I was hitting pretty damn hard on this one...
http://www.rarevintagecymbals.com/images/cymbals/2181_db_big.jpg

Later,
Matt

[Ian]

Those marks look right to me. I was referring to the huge 1" wide hammer marks on some other pieces.

[dkerwood]

I dunno about that. I've found that with the correct anvil and hammer, I can hit a cymbal about as hard as I can hit without it breaking.

I was hitting pretty damn hard on this one...

Later,
Matt

Matt- your pies are gorgeous. Ever since I saw a semi-pro drummer buddy rockin' some K Cons, I knew I wanted that hammered look. That's what makes me a little sad about the Saluda... but it's certainly growing on me. I may take off the top graphics, though, to clean up the look. Probably will leave the bottom logo.

I did have Saluda do a pressed logo seal so it'd still be a Saluda even if I took off all the graphics.

[Tuxido]

Those marks look right to me. I was referring to the huge 1" wide hammer marks on some other pieces.

Like these... ? (Bettis Cymbal)
http://www.rarevintagecymbals.com/images/cymbals/1282_dc_big.jpg

[mbettis]

Matt- your pies are gorgeous. Ever since I saw a semi-pro drummer buddy rockin' some K Cons, I knew I wanted that hammered look. That's what makes me a little sad about the Saluda... but it's certainly growing on me....

Thanks!

Yeah, the K Cons sure are pretty. And, if your new Saluda is starting to sound good to you, that's the most important thing.

Later,
Matt

[fusssion]

dkerwood,

Hey, I'm glad Jamie got back to you because I was going to say what he said, since I've been thru this process before. As a matter of fact, I recently received a Diamond Crash,
19" custom lathed down from a "rock" crash to a medium-ish ...and it was a little clangy at first. Played it at my first gig , ...put it away in my cymbal case till our bands next practice (4 weeks ...because of the holidays) ...set it back up, ...and BAM !!!! TOTALLY different!! She's sooooooo tasty now!!!

Also, regarding hammering....Diamonds are really a "hammered cymbal" ...so Jamie was concentrating on the sound you're looking for more than the look.

One more thing ....your Saluda sounds different than the rest of your pies because ....IT IS ! :) They are MUCH more musical .....dynamic, louder, purer toned...etc....I have an entire set of Saluda's and when I go to Guitarcenter just to kick around on a kit, ...whatever cymbals they have on their kit sounds DEAD compared to mine.

Give it a bit,...that Diamond will sweeten, for sure! :)

[dkerwood]

dkerwood,

Hey, I'm glad Jamie got back to you because I was going to say what he said, since I've been thru this process before. As a matter of fact, I recently received a Diamond Crash,
19" custom lathed down from a "rock" crash to a medium-ish ...and it was a little clangy at first. Played it at my first gig , ...put it away in my cymbal case till our bands next practice (4 weeks ...because of the holidays) ...set it back up, ...and BAM !!!! TOTALLY different!! She's sooooooo tasty now!!!

Also, regarding hammering....Diamonds are really a "hammered cymbal" ...so Jamie was concentrating on the sound you're looking for more than the look.

One more thing ....your Saluda sounds different than the rest of your pies because ....IT IS ! :) They are MUCH more musical .....dynamic, louder, purer toned...etc....I have an entire set of Saluda's and when I go to Guitarcenter just to kick around on a kit, ...whatever cymbals they have on their kit sounds DEAD compared to mine.

Give it a bit,...that Diamond will sweeten, for sure! :)

I have faith and a little bit o' patience. And after all, since it was just traded for two cymbals that were essentially useless to me, it's really like a free cymbal. If it sweetens, awesome. If not, well, I'm not really out anything.

As I play it and get some stick marks and fingerprints all over, it's starting to look more like a cymbal and less like a toy to me now. :-) We'll see what happens. I really do like my vintage A's, so it's hard to think that anything could sound more musical.

FWIW, I've got the kit set up as an "18 incher's club" right now... 18" A Medium Thin crash, 18" Saluda Medium Think Dark Crash, 18" K Custom Flat Ride, 18" K Custom Dark Crash (yes, the broken one). It's kind of fun to see and head the differences between these pies. If I get bored this weekend, I'll toss up my 18" AAX China to complete the club.

I'm also going this weekend up to the closest decent drum store- a little over an hour down the road. They supposedly have some nifty used cymbals in stock (a HH model that became the Manhattan series the next year, a K Con, and some Bosphorus), as well as a couple of Dream rides that I want to check out. It's all about expanding the colors, right?

...Now I just need to find more excuses to take the drums out of my practice room. They haven't been out since mid-December.

[Ian]

Like these... ? (Bettis Cymbal)
http://www.rarevintagecymbals.com/images/cymbals/1282_dc_big.jpg

Yes! Like those.

I'm always open to being wrong and will gladly admit it. I learned something today... now I just need to remember it.

Thanks for the education.

[trkdrmr]

I just attended a friends gig in the Seattle area. He had Saluda cymbals.

My observation: for the money they are good, but not something I'd ever substitute for the rest.

The alloy they use is thinner, and softer than major brands of B20 cymbals.

The result: I dislike the hats. They are nowhere near as crisp as the major brands. They are muted, and murky sounding.

The cymbals: all have an unusual and gritty wash. It's uneven compared to the major companies. This isn't always bad, but for me it just sound cheap.

The ride: Bright and cutting bell, but somewhat crude and harsh. The shoulder does not have the cleanliness of a major cymbal.

The chinas: very good. Comparable to Wuhan, but maybe a bit more consistant.

My bottom line on these is that they are good for the money, and are an excellent alternative to Sabian B8/b8pro or Zildjian ZBT/ZXT. They sound too crude to my ears to compete with a Paiste signature, Zildjian A custom or Sabian AA. The hats are not impressive (I'd rather have ZHT's, they are crisper).

You get what you pay for. But they are not as good as major brands IMO.

[dkerwood]

I just attended a friends gig in the Seattle area. He had Saluda cymbals.

My observation: for the money they are good, but not something I'd ever substitute for the rest.

The alloy they use is thinner, and softer than major brands of B20 cymbals.

The result: I dislike the hats. They are nowhere near as crisp as the major brands. They are muted, and murky sounding.

The cymbals: all have an unusual and gritty wash. It's uneven compared to the major companies. This isn't always bad, but for me it just sound cheap.

The ride: Bright and cutting bell, but somewhat crude and harsh. The shoulder does not have the cleanliness of a major cymbal.

The chinas: very good. Comparable to Wuhan, but maybe a bit more consistant.

My bottom line on these is that they are good for the money, and are an excellent alternative to Sabian B8/b8pro or Zildjian ZBT/ZXT. They sound too crude to my ears to compete with a Paiste signature, Zildjian A custom or Sabian AA. The hats are not impressive (I'd rather have ZHT's, they are crisper).

You get what you pay for. But they are not as good as major brands IMO.

What line of Saludas did he have? How old were they? Saluda has undergone major changes in the last 5 years... heck, in the last 2 years! I'd say if they had the big signature logo (rather than the small signature next to the bell) or worse, the block lettering logo... well, they're not exactly representative of what they are today.

Before buying, I did MONTHS of research. I watched all the videos and listened to all the recordings I could get my hands on. For some reason, Saluda users insist upon trying to record their cymbals with video camera mics... sigh... But I saw many professionals using Sal pies, and their kits sounded as good as anything else.

The older Saludas did most certainly suck (my buddy had a Saluda splash about 8 or so years ago that was horrid), but I can't imagine that you'd have pros using them if they sucked. The drummer for Molly Hatchet uses them, the drummer with The Tempations uses them, as well as a host of other pro drummers. Are they really clanging away on beginner pies?

FWIW, my Diamond is really starting to mellow nicely, as much as I can tell from behind my ear muffs. I can't wait for the next chance I get to pull my kit out from the little music room and hear the cymbal in an open space.

[trkdrmr]

What line of Saludas did he have? How old were they? Saluda has undergone major changes in the last 5 years... heck, in the last 2 years! I'd say if they had the big signature logo (rather than the small signature next to the bell) or worse, the block lettering logo... well, they're not exactly representative of what they are today.

Before buying, I did MONTHS of research. I watched all the videos and listened to all the recordings I could get my hands on. For some reason, Saluda users insist upon trying to record their cymbals with video camera mics... sigh... But I saw many professionals using Sal pies, and their kits sounded as good as anything else.

The older Saludas did most certainly suck (my buddy had a Saluda splash about 8 or so years ago that was horrid), but I can't imagine that you'd have pros using them if they sucked. The drummer for Molly Hatchet uses them, the drummer with The Tempations uses them, as well as a host of other pro drummers. Are they really clanging away on beginner pies?

FWIW, my Diamond is really starting to mellow nicely, as much as I can tell from behind my ear muffs. I can't wait for the next chance I get to pull my kit out from the little music room and hear the cymbal in an open space.

He has all new diamonds, earthworks, and others. He has a sponsorship. He gigs every week. I can't tell you how much better I like his paiste signatures.

Saluda strikes me as an intermediate cymbal. They have some musical properties, but they don't agree with me personally. They sound decent in context with music, but not alone.

YMMV.

[dkerwood]

He has all new diamonds, earthworks, and others. He has a sponsorship. He gigs every week. I can't tell you how much better I like his paiste signatures.

Saluda strikes me as an intermediate cymbal. They have some musical properties, but they don't agree with me personally. They sound decent in context with music, but not alone.

YMMV.

See, I can't stand the sound of Paiste Sigs, especially compared to Zildjian K or Sabian HH. Paiste in general is too clangy for my ear.

Now that said, my Diamond has not yet sufficiently impressed me that I should become a convert. I grew up with pies from Mr. and Mrs. Zildjian's kids, and it would take something fantastic to tell me that Zil and Sabian are not the way to go. Since I essentially got the Saluda for free, though, I can afford to keep waiting and see how this thing mellows. Thus far, I'd agree with your assessment- it's probably on par musically with Sabian XS20, although it seems more complex than any ZHT or ZXT I've heard recently. It's actually getting to the level of (gag) new Zildjian Avedis cymbals. Will it get even better? Only time will tell.

Out of curiosity, who is your Saluda bearing friend?

[trkdrmr]

See, I can't stand the sound of Paiste Sigs, especially compared to Zildjian K or Sabian HH. Paiste in general is too clangy for my ear.

Now that said, my Diamond has not yet sufficiently impressed me that I should become a convert. I grew up with pies from Mr. and Mrs. Zildjian's kids, and it would take something fantastic to tell me that Zil and Sabian are not the way to go. Since I essentially got the Saluda for free, though, I can afford to keep waiting and see how this thing mellows. Thus far, I'd agree with your assessment- it's probably on par musically with Sabian XS20, although it seems more complex than any ZHT or ZXT I've heard recently. It's actually getting to the level of (gag) new Zildjian Avedis cymbals. Will it get even better? Only time will tell.

Out of curiosity, who is your Saluda bearing friend?

My "Saluda bearing friend" is "smoke n drums" of the blues attitude band. I am not as much a paiste as a zildjian fan. He has a set of K customs, I just bought his (hardly used) A-customs which I prefer to any Paiste. I prefer them to K's for my purposes, though I really like his K special dark hats, dry ride and others. He had an old Saluda "glory" ride with some lathing. It was indeed, atrocious. He has a 27" saluda china, and a zillion other cymbals and snares from his years in the biz.

His paiste sig's do "clang" a bit, but the wash and decay are even, like a bell and don't have saluda's weird artifacts/grit.

I am a Zildjian A-custom guy myself. They don't have the Paiste clang (which was evident last night at the rock jam) and they have a nicer shimmer. Also, IMO, they are more versatile.

BTW: I have pics from last nights jam on my new Nikon digicam. I may post some tonight after I set up my own kit.
Used K's or A's over new Saluda any day

[dkerwood]

Used K's or A's over new Saluda any day

We agree on this... even though the A Customs are a bit bright to my ear (I still own 2 of 'em).

[trkdrmr]

We agree on this... even though the A Customs are a bit bright to my ear (I still own 2 of 'em).

I have some medium thin, and they have a brightness to them, it's not earsplitting like some brilliant cymbals, and lend themselves to many genres.

Many of my favorite drummers, spanning many styles use them.

The K's have a great dark complexity, but were a touch muted/dry for metal/rock/prog.

I'd have a set of K custom /hybrids as well. Maybe one of these days.

[dkerwood]

I have some medium thin, and they have a brightness to them, it's not earsplitting like some brilliant cymbals, and lend themselves to many genres.

Many of my favorite drummers, spanning many styles use them.

The K's have a great dark complexity, but were a touch muted/dry for metal/rock/prog.

I'd have a set of K custom /hybrids as well. Maybe one of these days.

Those hybrids are beautiful. Don't get me wrong, I love my A Customs, they're just not very complex. Oh and for what it's ultimately worth, I'll take used A or K Custom over NEW A or K Custom every day... :-)

[trkdrmr]

Those hybrids are beautiful. Don't get me wrong, I love my A Customs, they're just not very complex. Oh and for what it's ultimately worth, I'll take used A or K Custom over NEW A or K Custom every day... :-)

They A customs are complex vs a b8 cymbal. B8's of any brand lack complexity for me. That's not always a bad thing, just a limit. The A's just don't have the complexity in terms of shades of darkness. Think of the brilliant shimmer, the clean wash and decay. There is a warmth to the "body" of the sound, so they never sound harsh or brittle. I am used to dark/dry cymbals, and these are my 1st quality brilliant cymbals. I love the glassy, crisp and quick response. The K's are complex (the hybrids even more so) but they can't fill the roles I am using the A-customs for...different animal.

[dkerwood]

They A customs are complex vs a b8 cymbal. B8's of any brand lack complexity for me. That's not always a bad thing, just a limit. The A's just don't have the complexity in terms of shades of darkness. Think of the brilliant shimmer, the clean wash and decay. There is a warmth to the "body" of the sound, so they never sound harsh or brittle. I am used to dark/dry cymbals, and these are my 1st quality brilliant cymbals. I love the glassy, crisp and quick response. The K's are complex (the hybrids even more so) but they can't fill the roles I am using the A-customs for...different animal.

Fair enough (although I think my Saluda is also superior to any B8 pie). I like my A Customs for fast acting, quiet cymbals. They are certainly bright, but they speak quickly without necessarily needing to be loud (although they can certainly still get loud). When I need louder pies, my vintage As are a little darker, and take a little more power to get them to sing. When I need a loud crash, I don't hit my 16" A Custom. I hit my 18" Avedis.

The dry complex sound of K Custom is cool, but I can understand how it may not be your cup of tea. I don't think I would have cared for it a few years ago. In fact, it wasn't until I fell into my K Custom Flat Ride that I started appreciating that complexity...

Of course, then there's my Saluda. He designed it to speak quickly but still be dark... FAR darker then anything else I own, short of my china. It's still really fascinating to hear it change almost daily.

I really don't care for A Custom hats or rides, though, at least none that I've heard. Too straight, too basic. In fact, when I was cymbal browsing this weekend, the only ride I found that I preferred to my Avedis was a $400 K Constantinople. Way too expensive just to feed my hobby.

[trkdrmr]

In fact, when I was cymbal browsing this weekend, the only ride I found that I preferred to my Avedis was a $400 K Constantinople. Way too expensive just to feed my hobby.

I dropped by American music in Seattle, and tried out the k-custom hybrid hats. As soon as I saw the price tag I was turned off quicker than using a cold fire hose on dogs mating. $416???? OUCH.

I did like the Saluda crashes more than 2002's or something like Sabian paragon or meinl B13 cymbals. I am not one for cymbals that just cut...but not much else. There is more to it to the a customs.

I love the 14" A-custom mastersound hats. Those, and new beats are my favorite zildjian hats.

[zzdrummer]

Fair enough (although I think my Saluda is also superior to any B8 pie). I like my A Customs for fast acting, quiet cymbals. They are certainly bright, but they speak quickly without necessarily needing to be loud (although they can certainly still get loud). When I need louder pies, my vintage As are a little darker, and take a little more power to get them to sing. When I need a loud crash, I don't hit my 16" A Custom. I hit my 18" Avedis.

The dry complex sound of K Custom is cool, but I can understand how it may not be your cup of tea. I don't think I would have cared for it a few years ago. In fact, it wasn't until I fell into my K Custom Flat Ride that I started appreciating that complexity...

Of course, then there's my Saluda. He designed it to speak quickly but still be dark... FAR darker then anything else I own, short of my china. It's still really fascinating to hear it change almost daily.

I really don't care for A Custom hats or rides, though, at least none that I've heard. Too straight, too basic. In fact, when I was cymbal browsing this weekend, the only ride I found that I preferred to my Avedis was a $400 K Constantinople. Way too expensive just to feed my hobby.


I just bought a Ion V and Glory hats, both medium thin and pretty dark. The hats have changed so much in the last 2 weeks even though I have not been playing much because of a broken wrist. When I attempt playing, they have mellowed and I'm looking forward to their mellowing more when I play them. They were very harsh in the begginning. The Ion V crash actually was pretty sweet out of the box, nice and dark, semi quick, I actually really liked it.

[dkerwood]

I just bought a Ion V and Glory hats, both medium thin and pretty dark. The hats have changed so much in the last 2 weeks even though I have not been playing much because of a broken wrist. When I attempt playing, they have mellowed and I'm looking forward to their mellowing more when I play them. They were very harsh in the begginning. The Ion V crash actually was pretty sweet out of the box, nice and dark, semi quick, I actually really liked it.

Very cool. Do you have any pics?

[zzdrummer]

Very cool. Do you have any pics?

Not yet but I will hopefully shortly.