Rack or stands

[synergy]

Hey guys, not sure if there is already a thread on this- I tried looking but couldnt see it.

What are your feelings between using a rack or stands?

I can see that from a transport and setup stand-point a rack system would probably be easier and I can see where if you have a tonne of toms and cymbals then a rack would be beneficial.

However for the rest of us playing in small bars, halls, church etc- what are your thoughts?

I ask because I do not have feelings either way of them- I use stands but have used someone's kit at a gig that had a rack and about 3x the amount of equipment I usually use. I found his kit terrible but it wasnt the rack that was the issue.

A friend of mine has been drumming for over 25 years and absolutely detests them!

Just trying to see peoples feelings on the subject from both sides of the hardware!

[aydee]

Racks make sense ONLY if your kit always stays at home.

OR, you are a drummer with a road crew & a drum tech of your own.

If your kit travels a lot, I'd recommend a 4 piece/2 cymbal set up with a cymbal stand/tom holder config.

[stabmasterarson]

I have a double bass kit with 7 cymbals so I really like it a lot. It actually takes up less space than using stands did and nothing moves anymore. Plus I can get my toms closer and flatter than I could when they were attached to the bass drums.

But I am just getting my band to the point where we are looking for gigs, so I could be in for a real pain in the ass, it's my first rack...but I see a lot of gigging metal drummers use racks too.

[caddywumpus]

I remember a gig I did where a drummer was bringing his rack up 3 flights of narrow stairs to the venue. I offered to give him a hand, but he said, "No thanks, I've got it." I passed him 3 times before he got up to the 4th floor, after negotiating furniture and narrow hairpin turns. We arrived at the same time, and I had my kit set up and ready to go before he even had all of his cases brought up.

I don't buy the "less set up time" argument...

[synergy]

I figured you just picked up the rack, walked it into the venue and put it down.....


I guess I didnt look into the actual logistics... You still have to attach the toms and cymbals to it.


Do they provide any musical benefit? I guess with a large kit they help you find a place for everything-

Afterall its just a tube of metal- wonder why it causes such reaction between us drummers/

I guess its that whole single or double-pedal issue type thing

[peanut23s]

i feel tho as i dont have a large amount of kit really but i feel rack look ugly and distract the view from the kit and the drummer behind itso i like stands more. clamps and tom holders do exacly the same job with less space taken up and vetter looks

but i see the point if i really wanted i could have a huge kit i can reach with it and like with diosdude's 'monster' so i can see why people would use em

[Wavelength]

I've never needed one, so I'm feeling totally indifferent.

[rockitman]

I wouldn't use a rack for club gigging.

They are nice for theatre or large festivals where you have natural working space. I use a big PDP rack on the road and it actually is lot easier for me. Once it's set up we just lift everything and set it in place. Two guys can clear a drumset from the stage in 5 minutes.
I can set up in 20 minutes and tear down is about the same. It's 6 piece 2 up 2 down, 3rotos, 4 crash, a ride and hats.

Did I mention I prefer to play a smaller kit ? Yeah I do.

[larryace]

More hassle than they're worth, plus they look like ass. It would probably make sense in certain circumstances, but for the majority of stuff, the rack is wack.

[mrchattr]

I got a rack and was all excited. It's now part of my practice kit. There were positives and negatives to it.

One thing I will say is that, when I first got it, I transported it in the back of a big, empty van. My tech would grab one end, I'd grab the other, we'd walk in, put it down, and most of the set-up was complete. The van was tall enough that I could even leave the cymbal arms to the exact height needed...so my tech would throw on the toms, cymbals, slide in the bass drum, and put up the snare, and it was go time. That did save time.

Still, there are too many problems with small clubs, stairs, tiny doorways, etc. And if you have to break it down, even a little, it doesn't save any time.

[SharkyBait911]

i feel tho as i dont have a large amount of kit really but i feel rack look ugly and distract the view from the kit and the drummer behind itso i like stands more. clamps and tom holders do exacly the same job with less space taken up and vetter looks



I disagree Think a rack is a brilliant thing to get, it's easier and more practical and it looks damn sexy lol it doesn't block out the drummer it just has the same blocking out effect as stands !

[diosdude]

i use a rack with my dub kit, it's basically just a single gibralatar v bar and 2 extra pearl T-leg assemblies i had lying around. At my show last saturday it took me about 10 minutes to set up a 6-piece kit with 6 cymbals and a hi hat. So long as you keep the rack limited to just the front bar, it's pretty much a time saver. Once you start adding side rails, forget it, your setup time becomes exponentially longer with each side you add. I can say this too, there's no way on earth i could have used 6 cymbals if i had stands at this past gig. The stage was so small i had to fit the kit on a space about 6 feet wide by 5 feet deep. 6 tripods would not have worked. I'd say for practical purposes too and flexibility you shouldn't consider a rack unless you have more than six drums and six cymbals.

[LTNINGFan]

I have a Gibraltar rack, and I love it. Now playing shows is a different story...it can be a little time consuming, but I like to get to the venue and get all the cymbals on the booms and toms on there, provided I have a space to the side or back that I can do that right before we go on. When breaking down and transporting, I just leave the booms on there and remove everything else...

[trkdrmr]

Rack or stands?

If your kit is conservative, and similar to Max's on Conan O' Brian or Buddy Rich, a rack is IMO, inappropriate. It would be unnecessary and detract from the look.

OTOH,
If you have a kit like Todd Sucharman, Deen Castronovo (3-4 rack toms and cymbals galore) a rack is a godsend.

For a lot of stuff like that, a rack eliminates a whole lot of clutter. When *I* transport a rack, I fold larger parts inward, and unfold them to set up. I don't disassemble the damn thing into little peices. With my method, a 6-7 PC kit goes up/comes down faster than most 5-pc kits with the same amount of cymbals on stands.

Curved racks and the new V-rack look amazing compared to a bunch of stands.

[LTNINGFan]

Rack or stands?

If your kit is conservative, and similar to Max's on Conan O' Brian or Buddy Rich, a rack is IMO, inappropriate. It would be unnecessary and detract from the look.

OTOH,
If you have a kit like Todd Sucharman, Deen Castronovo (3-4 rack toms and cymbals galore) a rack is a godsend.

For a lot of stuff like that, a rack eliminates a whole lot of clutter. When *I* transport a rack, I fold larger parts inward, and unfold them to set up. I don't disassemble the damn thing into little peices. With my method, a 6-7 PC kit goes up/comes down faster than most 5-pc kits with the same amount of cymbals on stands.

Curved racks and the new V-rack look amazing compared to a bunch of stands.

Oh man, if I had a trailer where I could just fold it up (I have the curved kind) that would be so much easier :)

[trkdrmr]

Oh man, if I had a trailer where I could just fold it up (I have the curved kind) that would be so much easier :)

2005 Mazda B4000 pickup with camper shell :)

[LTNINGFan]

2005 Mazda B4000 pickup with camper shell :)

Sweet :) I have a Jeep Cherokee...maybe I could be a redneck and cut the roof off, lol!

[jjmason777]

I had one of the first rack systems that came out back in the mid 80's. It was the Tama "Cage". It was a 6 foot cube of 1-1/2" tubing and clamps. At first it was cool, in my practice space, but it would never fit on a club stage. Then I started using parts of it, until I had a small rack just big enough for everything. Its now in a closet, replaced with stands and heres why: (nobody mentioned this part yet)
They are TERRIBLE for recording!! You hit a drum, and you hear sounds from ALL your drums and cymbals that are connected to it! Not to mention the rack itself reverberated with it's own pinging sound! I had to go back to stands to isolate each piece from the other.
So I would sum it up this way:
They're fine for gigging (your choice), but no good for recording. Even if your drums are miked at a club, you might pick up unwanted rings and boings.
I am a stands guy for life!

[trkdrmr]

I had one of the first rack systems that came out back in the mid 80's. It was the Tama "Cage". It was a 6 foot cube of 1-1/2" tubing and clamps. At first it was cool, in my practice space, but it would never fit on a club stage. Then I started using parts of it, until I had a small rack just big enough for everything. Its now in a closet, replaced with stands and heres why: (nobody mentioned this part yet)
They are TERRIBLE for recording!! You hit a drum, and you hear sounds from ALL your drums and cymbals that are connected to it! Not to mention the rack itself reverberated with it's own pinging sound! I had to go back to stands to isolate each piece from the other.
So I would sum it up this way:
They're fine for gigging (your choice), but no good for recording. Even if your drums are miked at a club, you might pick up unwanted rings and boings.
I am a stands guy for life!

I remember those...as seen in countless hair metal videos. I get your point though, hollow metal tubes tubes transmit sound and resonate themselves.I saw a Carbon fiber rack... it would not resonate the same way.

[trkdrmr]

Sweet :) I have a Jeep Cherokee...maybe I could be a redneck and cut the roof off, lol!

A folded rack will most certainly fit in the back of that suv....

[Wavelength]

I can say this too, there's no way on earth i could have used 6 cymbals if i had stands at this past gig. The stage was so small i had to fit the kit on a space about 6 feet wide by 5 feet deep. 6 tripods would not have worked.

I've been using six cymbals in my rock bands, and all I need is three stands (hi-hat stand included) plus some clamps and cymbal arms. I also used seven cymbals in an electro project, again with just three stands:

http://muusikoiden.net/dyn/users/37504.jpg

[aydee]

I've been using six cymbals in my rock bands, and all I need is three stands (hi-hat stand included) plus some clamps and cymbal arms. I also used seven cymbals in an electro project, again with just three stands:



off topic- Hey J, whats to the left of the hats? What A custom is that and what is it sitting on top of?

[DrummerDavid]

I like racks of all sizes..

[Wavelength]

Hey J, whats tp the left of the hats? What A custom is that and what is it sitting on top of?

It's an 18" Masterwork Custom china stacked a 16" A Custom crash. I've sold the latter.

[timmdrum]

Racks make sense ONLY if your kit always stays at home.

OR, you are a drummer with a road crew & a drum tech of your own.

If your kit travels a lot, I'd recommend a 4 piece/2 cymbal set up with a cymbal stand/tom holder config.

Couldn't be any further from the truth. Racks make sense ONLY when it's a gigging kit or in cramped rehearsal quarters, assuming you have enough pieces to justify it. Of course you wouldn't use it with a Weinberg kit. But, I play a 5 piece (2 up, 1 down [hanging 14"]) with my rack toms foo far left to mount on the BD but not far enough left to mount on a stand. Plus, an aux snare on the left, cowbell & tambourine on 1 mount, 2 crashes, 2 chinas, splash, & ride mounted on the rack. The rack doesn't save weight with my setup since it weighs about as much as 3 medium-duty cymbal stands with assorted extra clamps & booms (but it damn sure would with metal bands' setups), and it may only save a little setup time, but it absolutely aids in consistency, 'cause everything's exactly the same every time. No tweaking. Rack + memory locks = never moving crap 1 inch this way, swivel this boom arm, move that stand a little, blah blah. Plus, as mentioned above, in multi-band gigs I set up the whole thing offstage and when it's our turn, plop goes the rack, then bass, snare, hats, & throne, and off I go. Not EVEN 5 minutes, more like 1, including plugging in mic' cables. Offstage, even faster. Tight stage? Less tripods = more foot/amp room. I've also recorded with it numerous times. (Gibraltar, not Tama) No pinging, ringing, vibration through the racks, etc. at all. (Toms are suspension mounted.)

For smaller/quieter gigs, I also cut back to a few stands and play a 4 pc. sans aux snare & other stuff, so obviously I wouldn't use the rack then. But my rack is a time & space saver many times over.

[LTNINGFan]

A folded rack will most certainly fit in the back of that suv....


Yeah, it would for sure, only if I didnt have to put all my drums (7 piece w/double bass) in there with the rack :)

[Naigewron]

Racks make sense ONLY if your kit always stays at home.

OR, you are a drummer with a road crew & a drum tech of your own.



What's your reasoning behind that statement?

From hardware bag to stage, I spend about exactly the same time setting up my current kit (racked) as I did my old kit (same configuration, same setup, but on stands). The added advantage of the rack is that once it's up, everything is exactly where I want it to be, and everything is rock solid. I also take up less floor space (no tripod legs sticking out everywhere).

Lastly, and this is personal taste of course, I think racks look a lot better.

New kit:
http://images.naigewron.net/drumkit/081205/Kit_Left.jpg

Old kit:
http://images.naigewron.net/mean-genie/061118/Kit01.jpg

[aydee]

What's your reasoning behind that statement?
Lastly, and this is personal taste of course, I think racks look a lot better.


You are right it is about personal taste.

I have a 7 piece Yamaha ( lots of cymbals ) at home which is racked and a 4 piece gigging /recording Tama with 2 cymbals ( mostly ), so I experience both, as do you.


22791


The difference is chalk & cheese for me. My reasons :

1) The fundamental idea of a rack is to reduce the cymbal stand forest around the kit, mainly to be able to position/angle them to your satisfaction. To mount all toms off a rack or even to get them off the bass drum is a purely a cosmetic one. So if you don't run a tons of cymbals, or are overly concerned about the sexiness of your kit, it seems kinda pointless to me.

2) Without getting into the intricacies of overall efficiencies of the 2 options, the rack has more hardware.. as in sheer number of pieces. More things, pieces, pipes etc etc..

On a gig, I really don't want to be dealing with an ounce more than I absolutely need to to I can fly a 12" tom of a cymbal stand ( or 2 toms off two cymbal stands ) and If I'm desperately in the mood for my splash, I fly it off a cymbal stand as well.

I'm also not a fussy drummer, personally. I can play almost anything, as long as the drums sound good to my ears. Maybe this comes from years of sitting in, playing gig kits, other peoples kit.. I don't know. Being a lefty has also trained me to make quick adjustments, and never really getting a kit set up exactly to my comfort levels.

If i had it my way, I'd take a pair of sticks to a gig, that's it.

( actually scratch that, even that doesn't matter.. I often discover I'm playing mismatched sticks )

[diosdude]

Here's some pics in time lapse to give a better perspective.

When i go to a small gig, I bring my small "dub" kit by ddrum, it's a 20x18 bass, 13x7 snare, 8, 10 and 12" rack toms and a 14" floor. The rack, which is basically just a gibraltar "V" rack on a couple pearl t-leg assemblies goes in the back of my pickup, already assembled:

http://i269.photobucket.com/albums/jj52/linomcortes/100_0198.jpg

It's pretty narrow, even with one sawed off side rail, about as cumbersome as a 4x12 slant guitar cabinet and slightly lighter. Note the actual "footprint" on the stage versus 6 tripods plus a hihat stand. It takes far less real estate and can go places where a convetional "stand" kit can go.

http://i269.photobucket.com/albums/jj52/linomcortes/100_0197.jpg

When i get it on stage, first thing i do is put down my throne, bass drum, pedals and hi hat stand (i use a legless Gibraltar ultimate adjust hi hat)

http://i269.photobucket.com/albums/jj52/linomcortes/100_0199.jpg

That takes about 90 seconds. Next, i add the rack toms which takes 60 seconds, then the snare drum with stand, another 30 seconds, and then the floor tom, another 30 seconds:

http://i269.photobucket.com/albums/jj52/linomcortes/100_0200.jpg

finally, i add the cymbals, 3 minutes tops to take them out of the bag and screw them onto the booms, which are already perfectly positioned:

http://i269.photobucket.com/albums/jj52/linomcortes/100_0201.jpg

From the time the band before us gets off stage to the time i'm ready to play is about 7-8 minutes, and the kit is 100% exactly like it was when it was at home, everything exactly where i want them to be.

[fugazi]

isnt it possible 'collapse' the two parts of the rack together? it would save up a lot of time ;p

[diosdude]

isnt it possible 'collapse' the two parts of the rack together? it would save up a lot of time ;p

Yeah, that little side bar actually just swivels around the front vertical post, making it so easy to carry and maneuver through doorways