Developing Ankle Motion

[Vicarious]

I've been wanting to become better at double bass for a long time now - and for the past while I have been working at playing slow speeds to a metronome to develop the leg motion (I'm learning to play heel up). However, at higher speeds I know that the motion will have to change and develop into an ankle motion. I have tried a few times to push to the point where my ankles would have to start working, but when they kick in it is always extremely uneven and I'm missing strokes etc.

My question is - how do I got about developing this motion so that once my ankles kick into gear they are able to take the transition smoothly? I've tried to practice the ankle motion at slow speeds in heel up, but I've found this really difficult, especially in terms of balance. I also suspect my throne height might be making this more difficult than it needs to be. What's a good height for being able to execute double bass with ankle motion?

[Mikey Dangerous]

Practice, practice, practice will help you develop speed, consistency, smoothness, etc. As for the height of your throne, the rule of thumb is that you should be sitting high enough that your thighs have a slightly downward angle towards the ground. Basically, a bit higher than if your thighs were totally parallel to the ground. Not all drummers do this so it's more of a "general rule", but then again, there are no "concrete rules" when it comes to drumming :)

Try it out, see if it helps...

Mike

[aydee]

Study the techniques of great DB guys, Mangini, Donati............ and you got some great ones closer to home ( as in drummerworld ) like Tim Waterson and Derek Roddy

[Wavelength]

My question is - how do I got about developing this motion so that once my ankles kick into gear they are able to take the transition smoothly? I've tried to practice the ankle motion at slow speeds in heel up, but I've found this really difficult, especially in terms of balance.

It is supposed to be difficult at first -- after all, you're working on a motion you haven't used before. Try working each foot individually before moving onto alternating strokes. Be ultra precise with your technique: keep your leg elevated and move the pedal with just an ankle motion. This will feel very awkward, but keep working on it and sooner or later it'll come together.

When you start playing alternating strokes, new challenges will arise: you'll need to develop your back and stomach muscles to help keep your body in balance while you keep your legs off the ground. It will take time and it will be hard, but as always, perseverance pays off.

[Vicarious]

Thanks. That pretty much accurately describes the issue I was having. I'd been able to do individual feet ankle strokes, but I found it very difficult to balance when both feet were in the air. I'll keep practicing and hopefully the required muscles will develop for me to be able to keep balance while playing double bass.

Thanks again.

[VedranS]

How high are you sitting? I've found that having my thighs at a slightly downward angle helps me with ankle motion in heel up, because I don't really have to lift my leg too much to have my heels off the pedals. They're also only very slightly raised, not the whole super-extended tiptoe type position you see a lot.

What I've found to help me a lot is to practice playing alternating strokes heel down at slow speeds and experimenting with putting just a bit of leg into it, and also in a very controlled way raising the tempo by just a bit. Not really fast, but just to a tempo where the motion feels "fluid" ( 16ths at 90 maybe? Whatever's comfortable.) If you get the heel down motion really fluid and easy and build your muscles for the ankles, then raising your heel just a touch should be easy enough. That way you can incorporate the weight of the leg a bit for power. If you experiment a lot with playing heel up and down at the same comfortable tempo, and pay attention to the motions, then you should be able to get a kind of smooth transition between the two positions. The ankle motion to me when I raise my heels feels pretty similar to heel down, but actually more comfortable, because it just feels like I'm "pushing" into the pedals a bit more.

Hope that makes sense in some way, just keep on doing it, holmes...

[Ironcobra]

You should PM Tim Waterson or Derek Roddy here on the forum, I'm sure they can give you a few great tips. Derek has many videos posted on youtube for this kind of stuff.

I would also recommend buying Tim's new DVD.

[kjsm]

has anyone got any direct links? im having trouble seeing much in the way of these two modern greats (waterson, roddy) that speicficallly addresses what we're discussing - even some tags would help
i'm a big exponent of this method especially tehe part about heels up isnt meant to be THAT up (or high off the ground, rathay) - i dont think your toes =the fingers technique but on pedals - is see the ankles thus - toes obviously for some control of the mechanics of your foot and balance but not properlling strokes as such.