Drum solos within the song form

[larryace]

OK when I am practicing alone, I can play a pretty decent "out of time" drum solo with some pretty cool stuff. But when it comes time to solo, for me it's always within the context of the song. I could go out of time for the solo, but to me, that doesn't respect the flow of the song up to that point. OK so I do the best I can within the song structure, but drums aren't a melodic instrument and I want to be able to do a really cool solo that the dancers don't have to stop for. I usually end up doing 1 maybe 2 times through the song structure and then I'm outta there, and I'm always disappointed with what I do as it relates to what I can do behind the kit. I feel so confined with the song structure. How does everyone else deal with this issue? To me drum solos are useless anyway, unless the drummer can maintain a compelling groove the entire time. Not that easy. I see all the greats on YouTube soloing, but to me, they are all out of time and non danceable, which to me is like...what's the point? Comments?

[stasz]

It's totally possible to maintain a solo within the song form and I've heard plenty of great drummers do it. Think of a jazz group trading choruses between the drums and soloist. Keep your playing in the tempo of the song and develop a structure. You don't have to play the melody line of the song on your drums, you just have to come up with musical ideas and then build on them. A great thing to hear in a solo is a development of an idea or ideas that eventually reaches a peak and then resolves back into the song. You can even do that out of the song's tempo if you feel so inclined and then return to the original song. Your musical ideas can be anything from a groove to a pattern around the drums to a specific rhythm... whatever sounds good to you. I think a great example of soloing inside of a song form is Philly Joe Jones' playing on Miles Davis' "Working with the Miles Davis Quintet".

[larryace]

I get what you say, and I am forced to do what you say, because I have to, that's my problem, while I can hear the song structure in my head as I'm soloing, I feel as though I'm just overplaying behind some non audible melody line, only because I never want the groove to falter, and to me it sounds pretty pedestrian when I know I can do other stuff that is way more representative of the time I've spent in the woodshed

[caddywumpus]

...but drums aren't a melodic instrument...

...there's part of your problem right there! Drums can be melodic, chordal, and textural. It's all in how you look at them. Unfortunately, most drummers starting out only view drums as textural or as a beat generator. Play it like it's a melodic instrument with changing "notes" and dynamics. Shape your phrases like a singer would sing a melody (they have to take breaths somewhere...). Use the idea of "theme and development", "call and response", and whatever else you can muster up. Maybe come up with a loose structure to your solos, so you have some idea of what you are going to do, but aren't confined by a "part".

...I feel so confined with the song structure...

...just like painters feel confined within the canvas. Think of it this way: without the song structure, there would be no bounds for your solo, and probably nothing for the audience to grasp on to. It's your medium to work with. Use your sense of expression and imagination to convey a story or indulge in an idea.

...To me drum solos are useless anyway...

...there's the other part of your problem. Ask your band if you can rearrange the tunes so that you can omit the solos, or just groove in those parts. Making it work for you is part of making it work for the group/audience.

I hope this helps to spark something. Your thoughts?

[larryace]

My thoughts...are that I need to hear this stuff. Thanks man. What you are saying makes sense, especially call and response, dynamics it's just that when a solo gets sprung on me, I have to admit I never liked being the center of attention, and I get a social anxiety thing to enough of a degree where it inhibits me. That's the real issue.

[zzdrummer]

I think that is i ridiculously good post by caddywumpus, gave me ideas about the whole medium thing i like that...I normally like soft rock music but I'm well into the process of learning jazz and I've learned other peoples solos, but not made up my own. I never thought of singing the melody in my head and keeping the flow of the song while playing something interesting. That kinda goes along with my ideas about comping, which is a quote from a drummer I forget but I always remember the quote, our part is to have a dialogue with the whole band while also having a dialogue with the drums themselves.

Sorry for the rambling

[Wavelength]

To get inspiration, check out these three guys from Drummerworld Video Library:

- Wolfgang Haffner (http://www.drummerworld.com/Videos/wolfganghaffner24h.html)
- Benny Greb (http://www.drummerworld.com/Videos/bennygreb20081.html)
- Shawn Pelton (http://www.drummerworld.com/Videos/shawnpeltondiablo.html)

The three guys are totally different players, but they all know how to solo within a song form. Do they seem confined, stiff and anxious to get out of time? On the contrary, the form and the time don't seem to act as constraints -- rather, they are a context that gives purpose and meaning to the soloist's chosen vocabulary. They all could play the same licks and phrases out of time, but it would sound very different and (probably) less meaningful.

When you're playing within a form, you can sound better if you play less and stick to simple ideas -- like Shawn. If you have the confidence and the chops to play more intricate phrases, go for it, but don't worry about throwing in everything that you know. It's better to play less and stay on track if the other option is to play more and lose the groove.

[larryace]

Wow those guys really own it. Thanks man for the consideration with my issue. I think I just need an attitude adjustment. I play a lot of blues, and for me I have a real tough time soloing to a shuffle type song. To me it's just not conducive to an engaging drum solo. But that doesn't mean it can't be engaging, I think it's all in my head. I just had to say it out loud (sort of) here, or to someone, before I could start dealing with it. You guys rock.

[Late Bloomer]

That Benny Greb solo is one of the grooviest solos I have ever heard. I would rather hear that than a balls out drum solo anyday. Thanks for posting it.

[VedranS]

One idea in a blues setting if you don't like soling in a shuffle format, is to come up with a simple shuffled melody between your toms/snare/bass/cymbals just based on simple phrasing and using different pitches you can get.
If you can come up with a catchy melody to play (once again, yes you can play melodies on drums) that goes with the song (doesnt have to try to imitate it, that might sound silly since you can't actually get the pitches right) that the audience can grasp a hold of (something hummable) you can then do whatever you want as long as you refer to it.
You can straighten it out and play it as eights instead of parts of triplets, try to play it while rolling on your snare and reaching for the toms/cymbals to play the melody, playing ostinatos or even just some colors with the melody, giving it different textures. You can always keep in time to the song without having to play the shuffle, there's other subdivisions, as long as you feel comfortable switching feels and staying in time. And if you do the melody swung and then change it to sound funky, with straight 16ths/8ths then that can have a huge impact in your solo as you retain the (hopefully memorable/catchy) melody and change the feel completely before jumping back inthe song all bluesified once again.

Sorry for the long post, just some thoughts, hopefully I make some kind of sense...

[jstorey4]

I really struggle with this too. During our shows, I get a solo in a song that has a strong 4-on-the-floor dance beat. I REALLY have to restrain from bringing out my good chops, because it can kill the groove. I always get the obligatory applause at the end, but I never really feel satisfied. Anyone have some good examples of soloing over straight quarters on the kick?