Toxicity

[deadbirdsoup]

Just a small question about the 'System of a Down' song 'Toxicity';

A pupil of mine came in last week asking to learn this song. It's amazing how many times I've listened to the track before then, but never noticed the measure.

So to the point, I seem to understand a 6/8 feel from the intro. My pupil was counting it in 4/4 for the whole way, which seemed almost possible, except from the first drum intro, where it proves difficult. Also with the first drum intro, I can understand a 4/4 rhythm being played, which overlaps the 6/8, until the fill and breakdown into half time.

So really I'm trying to clarify it all, and find out if I'm speaking complete BS or not! :)

Cheers

[Wavelength]

After giving it a quick listen, I'd say it's in 6/8 throughout the song. The "4/4" parts shouldn't really be thought of as 4/4, but just three groups of 2/8 over 6/8. It's actually a great, simple example of polymetrics: have your pupil play two bars of regular 6/8 followed by two bars of 6/8 grouped in 2/8 chunks, and repeat ad nauseam.

[deadbirdsoup]

Thanks for that. Yes your right, I think I was just generally thinking of the pattern and what timing it would normally be considered with, but in context, 6 bars of 2/8 certainly makes a lot more sence. Amazing how much more things are noticed where you are simply trying to teach someone else.

Cheers again

[kjsm]

it my opinion it is genuinely both
due to the groups of threes occupying the same duration as one quarter note
it switches between the two
there is also a sense of hemiola
i think feel very important here

[dcrigger]

Thanks for that. Yes your right, I think I was just generally thinking of the pattern and what timing it would normally be considered with, but in context, 6 bars of 2/8 certainly makes a lot more sence. Amazing how much more things are noticed where you are simply trying to teach someone else.

Cheers again

Yes - but I wouldn't call it 6 bars of 2/8 - it is still 6/8. Just divided into three groups of 2 eighth notes - for those bars instead of two groups of three 1/8th notes like the other bars.

Also this same rhythmic pattern repeats in various places though out the song. Every place the band plays that same break pattern -

1 . 2 . 3 . 4 . 5 . 6 . 1 & 2 & 3 . 4 . 5 . 6 .

Almost as if those two bars are in 3/4 and the other bars in 6/8 (with the eighth note pulse never changing -

1 & 2 & 3 & 1 & 2 & 3 & 1 2 3 4 5 6 1 2 3 4 5 6

(the inability to easily post music notation can make these types of discussions so__ confusing) :-)

dc

[TheGroceryman]

i usually think of the song in 12/8. the phrases seem to be grouped in two bars of 6/8, at least to me.

but what about the bridge? when it seems to speed up? the part from 2:40 to 3:04 if you have a recording. is the drummer doing quarter note triplets on the bass?

and im pretty sure at the very end they switch to 4/4. but the previous dotted quarter note throughout the whole song becomes the quarter note (so it seems like its slowing down). so its basically the effect you get from playing triplets at a tempo then playing eighth notes at that same tempo.

this might have made no sense....