Single or Double Braced?

[Pedro]

Hi all

I want to buy a new boomstand from Yamaha, and am doubting between the single braced and double braced. I'm currently using a very old single braced yamaha stand and that works fine for me.....but I don't know how the new ones are.

So....please tell me your experience......considering quality, weight, stability.

Thanks

[basscase]

If you're not playing hard rock you can probably stay with single braced stands. The doubles look cool, but also add a lot of weight to your load. Do you plan on moving the kit a lot?

[Pedro]

If you're not playing hard rock you can probably stay with single braced stands. The doubles look cool, but also add a lot of weight to your load. Do you plan on moving the kit a lot?

I am planning to move the kit a lot.
The weight is actually the thing that I'm worried about with the double braced.
And I don't play hardrock, but of course I would like to buy a stand that is suitable for a lot of things (I don't like buying hardware), so if I buy a stand I can use it for all the stuff if needed. But I'm not a hard hitter......

[basscase]

Single braced stands are good for single items such as a single cymbal or a single tom, but if you load up the stands like I do then you will want double bracing. I have one double braced Pearl stand that has a 12" and 13" toms and a cymbal boom with a 16" crash on it. It definitely needs the extra brace to hold up all that stuff!

[nacdrummer3]

Defintely having double braced stuff adds tons of weight, but if you get a bag that has wheels on it, and have two guys lifting it then you should be good.

I play metal, and hit hard, and have tons of cymbals
Thats why i just switched to a rack system. So much easier and its not that heavy at all

But the double braced stuff is always worth it. For me it just lasts long and can stand up to the test of gigging and touring

[caddywumpus]

I've never found that it's the double-bracing that makes the stand stable, but rather the extra weight at the bottom of the stand and the fact that double-braced legs usually extend farther than single-braced models do.

I don't buy the stability argument for a minute. On my Yamaha 600 cymbal stand (single-braced), I mount a splash cymbal clamp with a 24" K Light Ride over my bass drum, a 19" old A Zildjian on the actually stand tilter, and a 16" old A Zildjian on another splash cymbal clamp. I've been doing this for years (with all kinds of cymbals), and the stand has never once failed me by slipping or tipping over.

My vote goes for single-braced. Cheaper, lighter, and works just as good as double-braced.

[Pedro]

Defintely having double braced stuff adds tons of weight, but if you get a bag that has wheels on it, and have two guys lifting it then you should be good.

I play metal, and hit hard, and have tons of cymbals
Thats why i just switched to a rack system. So much easier and its not that heavy at all

But the double braced stuff is always worth it. For me it just lasts long and can stand up to the test of gigging and touring

I used to have a rack, but I sold it because it is too much work to set it up :-). I understand if you play with a enormous kit a rack is better :)

[Pedro]

Single braced stands are good for single items such as a single cymbal or a single tom, but if you load up the stands like I do then you will want double bracing. I have one double braced Pearl stand that has a 12" and 13" toms and a cymbal boom with a 16" crash on it. It definitely needs the extra brace to hold up all that stuff!

Well, for now, it's only for a crash or ride.......but it's possible that I add a 8" tom on my kit, and that the stand would be used for this kind of stuff, or for a X-hat.
of course if you put 2 toms and a cymbal...I wouldn't trust with single braced........
But what do u think....if it's for a cymbal and 8" tom or for cymbal and X-hat.....would the single braced be enough (because I hate to carry heavy stands!)

[nacdrummer3]

If you hate carrying heavy stands then go with single braced. If you set it up properly where that the overhanging stuff is overtop of one of the legs and you should be good

if your adding anything else or a heavier tom then i would go with double brace

[Pedro]

I've never found that it's the double-bracing that makes the stand stable, but rather the extra weight at the bottom of the stand and the fact that double-braced legs usually extend farther than single-braced models do.

I don't buy the stability argument for a minute. On my Yamaha 600 cymbal stand (single-braced), I mount a splash cymbal clamp with a 24" K Light Ride over my bass drum, a 19" old A Zildjian on the actually stand tilter, and a 16" old A Zildjian on another splash cymbal clamp. I've been doing this for years (with all kinds of cymbals), and the stand has never once failed me by slipping or tipping over.

My vote goes for single-braced. Cheaper, lighter, and works just as good as double-braced.


Wow! you certainly encourage me for single braced :-)
Well, I also have an old Yamaha single braced stand from my prevouse Power V drum.....and this one (together with an old premier stand) keep lasting.....I bought it 2nd hand and it's probably 10 or 15years old. I ones invested in a Pearl double braced stand...and it was broken after 2 years. (that's why I want yamaha)

But my worry is: are the old single braced yamaha stand the same as the new ones?

And: do you mount 4 cymbals on one stand? (I would love to do that :-) )

[caddywumpus]

Defintely having double braced stuff adds tons of weight, but if you get a bag that has wheels on it, and have two guys lifting it then you should be good.

I play metal, and hit hard, and have tons of cymbals
Thats why i just switched to a rack system. So much easier and its not that heavy at all

But the double braced stuff is always worth it. For me it just lasts long and can stand up to the test of gigging and touring

If you can always arrange to have 2 guys lifting a bag, that's great. I can do that at gigs, but when I'm at home, it's just me doing the loading/unloading. I make sure that every load that I take is not too heavy for just me to lift. Actually, I want to make sure that it's fairly easy. I used to have a huge trap case, but it was too heavy and way too cumbersome. I switched to a small suitcase and bought hardware appropriately sized to fit inside (which is why I got the Yamaha 600 series--they fold down very small). I think that rack systems are a little much for me, too, space-wise. I like to be able to take a small Honda Civic to gigs, especially with gas prices nowadays.

[caddywumpus]

And: do you mount 4 cymbals on one stand? (I would love to do that :-) )

I don't know if the old stuff is like the newer stuff. I'm definitely not a Yamaha endorser or aficionado, but I got their stands because they collapse to a very small height.

I have never mounted 4 cymbals on a single stand because;
1. I don't play that many cymbals
2. I don't have that many clamps

But, with the 3 cymbals I use now on that stand, it's basically the weight of about 4-5 "regular" cymbals (or about 10-12 if you're thinking splashes).

[mrchattr]

I've never found that it's the double-bracing that makes the stand stable, but rather the extra weight at the bottom of the stand and the fact that double-braced legs usually extend farther than single-braced models do.

I don't buy the stability argument for a minute. On my Yamaha 600 cymbal stand (single-braced), I mount a splash cymbal clamp with a 24" K Light Ride over my bass drum, a 19" old A Zildjian on the actually stand tilter, and a 16" old A Zildjian on another splash cymbal clamp. I've been doing this for years (with all kinds of cymbals), and the stand has never once failed me by slipping or tipping over.

My vote goes for single-braced. Cheaper, lighter, and works just as good as double-braced.

I'm with Caddy here (as always, it seems). I play out a ton, and it's usually single-braced stands that I'm using to mount multiple cymbals, or toms and cymbals, etc. I've never had a problem.

[Vipercussionist]

Hi all

I want to buy a new boomstand from Yamaha, and am doubting between the single braced and double braced. I'm currently using a very old single braced yamaha stand and that works fine for me.....but I don't know how the new ones are.

So....please tell me your experience......considering quality, weight, stability.

Thanks Well, all I can tell you about is MY experiences. At one time many years ago, I used the Ludwig HERCULES line of stands, BIG HUGE HEAVY stands that I could have used to plumb my home. They were AWESOME until I had to pack them up at the end of the night and try to move them into the van. After some time went by I started using the Ludwig 1400 series, their SMALLEST series of stands and I've never looked back.

I'm not a thrash player but I'm no wimp either and I don't have any problem with things falling over. There are single braced stands made today (like the Gibraltar "8600 Series" (http://www.gibraltarhardware.com/?fa=series&sid=372&cid=70) or the slightly more robust "JZ Series" (http://www.gibraltarhardware.com/?fa=series&sid=550&cid=70) stands) that are better and stronger than the 25 year old Ludwig 1440's I'm still using, but STILL won't break your back when moving them. I'm sure with the wider stance and the higher reach they provide you shouldn't have any problems with placing the cymbal right where you need it, and keeping it there.

[KarlCrafton]

I went back to single braced stands myself a few months ago.

I have a few sets of heavy duty hardware, and it's all great, but I just got sick of hauling it.

I went with DW's single braced 7700 stands.

All the same features of the heavy stuff, with smaller tubing.
They cost me $70 a piece.

http://dwdrums.com/hardware/7700.htm

Base is 1"
Middle is 3/4"
Top is 5/8 for the boom fitting, or 1/2 for the straight.

BUT, like Caddy said about "the weight and spread at the bottom is what keeps the stand stable", these single braced stands have it covered.

I can use 21" crash cymbals up pretty high, and play them with any force I want and the stand barely moves--even with the legs not out all the way.

I don't use the cymbals up that high, I just tested it out that way (but I do use a 21" crash).
I am able to have 10" mini hats, and a 19" crash boomed off on this stand as well without any wobble too.

http://i66.photobucket.com/albums/h257/KarlCrafton/crashcloseoutside.jpg

I have full confidence in this single braced hardware to hold anything I have, last many years...and to not break my back :-).

DW's flat base stand holds my 24" med ride with no problem too...

[Deathmetalconga]

If you are piling lots of stuff on the stands, then I would go with double braced. They are heavier but will last longer. If you use a lot of stands, you can go with lighter ones, but you'll have more to schlep around.

[MusiQmaN]

The nice thing about Yamaha stands is that it doenst matter (until a certain level offcourse) that it doesnt matter what you putiing on a single braced (600 or 700 series) stand.

I had on my tripple WS770 stand a 16'' and 14'' tom and crash or 16'' or 14'' tom and 17'' crash and 20'' ride.

Also I had a setup wich was more percussive with a snare, barchimes, cowbell, tambourine, triggermodule, triggerpad and it was still sturdy.

Thats one of the reasons Im playing Yamaha.

Im still using the single braced stands for my Hipgig setup and perucssive setups together with the Hexrack for the big set-up.

[Pedro]

I went back to single braced stands myself a few months ago.

I have a few sets of heavy duty hardware, and it's all great, but I just got sick of hauling it.

I went with DW's single braced 7700 stands.

All the same features of the heavy stuff, with smaller tubing.
They cost me $70 a piece.

http://dwdrums.com/hardware/7700.htm

Base is 1"
Middle is 3/4"
Top is 5/8 for the boom fitting, or 1/2 for the straight.

BUT, like Caddy said about "the weight and spread at the bottom is what keeps the stand stable", these single braced stands have it covered.

I can use 21" crash cymbals up pretty high, and play them with any force I want and the stand barely moves--even with the legs not out all the way.

I don't use the cymbals up that high, I just tested it out that way (but I do use a 21" crash).
I am able to have 10" mini hats, and a 19" crash boomed off on this stand as well without any wobble too.

http://i66.photobucket.com/albums/h257/KarlCrafton/crashcloseoutside.jpg

I have full confidence in this single braced hardware to hold anything I have, last many years...and to not break my back :-).

DW's flat base stand holds my 24" med ride with no problem too...

Very interesting thanks!!
I wonder: what system do you use for your X-hat? That looks a very nice system, and I'm looking for a X-hat stand myself.

[Pedro]

The nice thing about Yamaha stands is that it doenst matter (until a certain level offcourse) that it doesnt matter what you putiing on a single braced (600 or 700 series) stand.

I had on my tripple WS770 stand a 16'' and 14'' tom and crash or 16'' or 14'' tom and 17'' crash and 20'' ride.

Also I had a setup wich was more percussive with a snare, barchimes, cowbell, tambourine, triggermodule, triggerpad and it was still sturdy.

Thats one of the reasons Im playing Yamaha.

Im still using the single braced stands for my Hipgig setup and perucssive setups together with the Hexrack for the big set-up.

So, what do you think: 600 or 700series? (the 600series seem a bit too light to me...but I can be mistaken....)

[RICHY-18]

I prefere Double braced Hardware. but my kit is stationary and iam getting another to cart around but... its nice to know you can properly trust your hardware

just my opinion:)....

[Chonson]

I'll throw in another vote for single braced... so much easier to move. I use DW flush base on and off (6000 series) and it's great -- all the kit hardware folds up in the throne, weighs very little. And it's plenty sturdy -- I've used a 24" GB on it without problems and that's a cymbal I like to hammer.

However, the 7000 series is solid as well and probably all you need unless you're trying to outdo Bozzio with the amount of stuff off any given stand -- or if you're going to play in an earthquake and a hurricane at the same time.

If you're seriously playing quality single braced hardware and having trouble with stuff falling over, it may be time to take a look at what you're doing... think about the decades and decades of drummers using single braced hardware (or flush base!) without it falling to pieces.

[Vipercussionist]

I'll throw in another vote for single braced... so much easier to move. I use DW flush base on and off (6000 series) and it's great -- all the kit hardware folds up in the throne, weighs very little. And it's plenty sturdy -- I've used a 24" GB on it without problems and that's a cymbal I like to hammer.

However, the 7000 series is solid as well and probably all you need unless you're trying to outdo Bozzio with the amount of stuff off any given stand -- or if you're going to play in an earthquake and a hurricane at the same time.

If you're seriously playing quality single braced hardware and having trouble with stuff falling over, it may be time to take a look at what you're doing... think about the decades and decades of drummers using single braced hardware (or flush base!) without it falling to pieces. Exactly Chon!! I STILL use the Ludwig 1400's I own that are about 20 to 25 years old and they'll still be doing the job for another 25 as far as I can tell.

[caddywumpus]

...its nice to know you can properly trust your hardware

just my opinion:)....

...and I know that I can properly trust my single-braced stand to handle everything I need it to, including 20+ lbs of cymbals being boomed off of it in all directions, without even the remotest threat of it tipping over.

[Pedro]

Exactly Chon!! I STILL use the Ludwig 1400's I own that are about 20 to 25 years old and they'll still be doing the job for another 25 as far as I can tell.

Old stuff happend to be good quality, ist't it? Old ludwig, Old Yamaha, even old mobilephones :-)

[dkerwood]

Single braced drum throne- bent.
Single braced snare stand- slightly bent.
Single braced cymbal stand- just fine.
2 Double braced snare stands- perfect.
Ludwig 1400 stand- rock solid.
Single braced hi hat stand- slightly bent
Double braced hi hat stand- perfect
2 Single braced tom stands- almost perfect

So it's hard to say. 100% success rate with double braced. Less than that with single.

[mrchattr]

Single braced drum throne- bent.
Single braced snare stand- slightly bent.
Single braced cymbal stand- just fine.
2 Double braced snare stands- perfect.
Ludwig 1400 stand- rock solid.
Single braced hi hat stand- slightly bent
Double braced hi hat stand- perfect
2 Single braced tom stands- almost perfect

So it's hard to say. 100% success rate with double braced. Less than that with single.

What the HECK are you doing to bend all that hardware? Holy crap. I put hours and hours behind the kit every single week, and have never actually bent a stand, except for an old Tama cymbal stand that I got that was all rusty and gross when I got it (for free). And I play pretty hard (though with good technique). I can't even imagine what could bend a hi hat stand.

[dkerwood]

What the HECK are you doing to bend all that hardware? Holy crap. I put hours and hours behind the kit every single week, and have never actually bent a stand, except for an old Tama cymbal stand that I got that was all rusty and gross when I got it (for free). And I play pretty hard (though with good technique). I can't even imagine what could bend a hi hat stand.

Good question. It's all used hardware (I've never bought a new stand), and the bent stuff was generally bent before I got it. I think one of my cymbal legs got bent when loading up for a gig- a heavy speaker fell over on top of my stand bag. I know my hi-hat stand got slightly bent once when I was trying to pull it out from the back of a closet while in high school. After that, I learned to be more careful with the single braced stuff.

Truth be told, although I've played drums for 16 years, I've only been heavily into it again for the past 6 or so. None of that gear has broken or gotten any worse since that time, but I figure that hardware should last 60 years- 6 doesn't impress me. :-)

I suspect that most of the bending occurs when moving the kit around rather than when actually playing... although the dude who owned the throne before me was pretty big. He probably did bend the throne through normal use.

[nickg]

So, what do you think: 600 or 700series? (the 600series seem a bit too light to me...but I can be mistaken....)

the 600 series is definitely lighter than the 700 series no doubt. but the 700 is very sturdy and stable and definitely lighter than double braced stands.

but when i have my hardware bag filled, even with the 700 single braced stands, that S.O.B. is STILL heavy!!!!

so unless you're carrying just 2 cymbal stands and a snare and hi hat, your back still won't be thanking you a whole lot.

[Pete Stoltman]

I'd love to get an engineering guy to respond to this. Other than adding weight which has already been noted I can't think of any reason why the double braces add any more stability than a single. The only thing I can think of is that a second brace acts as a "failsafe" if one of the other braces should actually break. Not a real likely scenario under most conditions.

[Deathmetalconga]

I'd love to get an engineering guy to respond to this. Other than adding weight which has already been noted I can't think of any reason why the double braces add any more stability than a single. The only thing I can think of is that a second brace acts as a "failsafe" if one of the other braces should actually break. Not a real likely scenario under most conditions.

Over time, a double-braced stand will better tolerate lots of weight being loaded onto it. I have two double braced stands that each hold two toms and three cymbals (and these are solid-shell ironwood, much heavier than standard drums, all suspension mounted). Single-braced stands would have a shorter lifespan with so much weight.

[Disco Stu]

For extra stability, I'm going double braced...with modifications. Fact is, I don't extend my cymbal stands very high, so there is a lot of extra piping that isn't doing anything other than adding extra weight, especially with the ride cymbal stand. So, I lopped off the unnecessary extensions with a hacksaw which cut a fair amount of weight off the stands. Also, other than one boom stand for the ride cymbal, I'm using straight stands which eliminates the extra weight of a boom.

[harryconway]

700 Series Yamaha stands. As heavy duty as most people ever need to go. Back in the 80's, I flew drums and cymbals in at crazy altitudes and angles (it was the fashion) and the double braced boom with counterweight was necessary. 25 years later, I've sold all my old Tama Titan cymbal stands (for almost what I paid for them 25 years ago) and replaced them with Yamaha 600 and 700 Series stands. And like Disco Stu, I use that hacksaw. I own 8 identical (were) boom arms, and half of them now, have been "modified".

[Deathmetalconga]

I'd love to get an engineering guy to respond to this. Other than adding weight which has already been noted I can't think of any reason why the double braces add any more stability than a single. The only thing I can think of is that a second brace acts as a "failsafe" if one of the other braces should actually break. Not a real likely scenario under most conditions.

I'm not an engineer but I know I little bit about hardware and metal work.

When a single-braced stand is twisted, all three legs are being bent in one direction, with compression happening one side of each leg and stretching on the other.

In a double-braced stand, you really have two braces per leg and the braces are off-center from the leg axis. When the stand is twisted, three of the braces are being compressed and the other three are being stretched. Thus, the system absorbs more stress because the braces that comprise the legs are forced in different directions (compression vs. extension).

It's one of the reasons why bridges, for example, are made of many smaller pieces of metal, instead of one large one. More structural pieces creates more ways to dissipate stress.

[JanosA]

all of my stands are double braced except for one, and its just as stable as the others.

[Davo-London]

Good question. I was just thinking about that myself.

Davo