Jazz comping between the ride and the snare

[jay norem]

I was messing around tonight and I started playing the ride cymbal pattern with my left hand and the little comping licks on the cymbal. I thought it sounded rather nice so I kept at at for awhile and found that I could sort of divide the ride pattern between the two hands. Now I'm not putting this right at all, because there's more going on than just that. It's almost like playing broken up paradiddles between the cymbal and the ride, but that's not saying it right either really.
It's playing the old swing cymbal pattern with both hands, see.
The effect it creates is a sort of "chattery" sound. It's a lot more "busy" than how I've been doing it forever and it's a pretty interesting thing, and no, it's not anything new at all by a long shot. I think it's very much like Jack DeJohnette, that kind of approach, where both hands are tossing the time back and forth. It's allowing me to play faster since I'm not having to keep strict time on the ride cymbal anymore.
Another cool thing about it is that I find that the downbeat is much less emphasized, in fact it's more of a propulsive and almost ametric groove.
Has anyone else ever played around with this idea? I've been Mr. Ride Cymbal for so long now that this is really a lot of fun to play. I've got some way to go with it but I like it very much. Something new to mess around with.

[oops]

It's a very Elvin Jones sort of pattern, paradiddles between snare and ride (or double paradiddles), it's cool if you can make it swing.

Or playing very uptempo tunes, if you're looking for a break, do doubles between hands (RRLLRRLL) and it's a bit of variety. Don't suggest doing it for too long, bass player starts to give you looks...

[Garvin]

I sometimes end up doing that kind of thing when I play with some of the West African music. I'm not sure if you've checked out any of Royal Hartigan's material on Ghanain rhythms for drumset, but it'll turn your brain inside out. One of the best sources for great jazz ideas that I've ever found.

I think when you switch the hand patterns that way, you end up with a really neat time-shifting effect where it sounds like you are playing between 4 and 6 (or however you want to count it). I would seriously reccomend checking out Royal Hartigan's books and playing Jay, if you haven't already. I promise that you'll love it.

[The Colonel]

I fooled around with this a few years back (jeezus! 2000? Where has the time and my hair gone?) and really liked the results - so much that even though I wasn't entirely comfortable with everything that would "come out" from doing it - I would often play with the left on the ride and the right on the snare and said "screw it if it sucks" - but it never did suck - so I kept at it. Then I saw Eric McPherson play - and that guy is switching hands on the ride constantly and playing both at the same time - with the snare coming from both hands - and I thought "That's where I want to be" - so I becamse ultra-proficient in leading with both hands - but sometimes I will "forget" all that and play some....not "sloppy" but *sloppy* left-hand leading time.

One of the things that makes it work so well (feel/sound good) is that you are leading on the snare with your stronger hand - so the ideas there might be stronger for some. When I studied with Nasheet Waits - he pointed out (and I had no idea at the time) that I ALWAYS started a roll with my right hand after coming off the ride - so he said "practice all that stuff leading with the left" - and Boom! My left hand took off - I'll take my left hand now over 99% of other drummers' right hands - Back when I worked at a music store the other guys would tell people to "challenge his left hand" and they would all lose the "competition" - All because Nasheet said "Dude, lead with your left!" about 8 years ago.


It's also cool because a lot of people/everyone practices hitting their right hand and right foot together. Well - that funky snare/bass combo at the same time in some of those uptempo situations sound *awesome* and I fell in love with it so much that I came up with an uptempo Syncopation thing where you play the line (uptempo) with both the left hand on snare *and* the bass drum. Once you get that stuff really really tight - oh man - there's so much stuff you can do with the "jazz/point-to-point" flams and alternating...


So yeah - I know what you're talking about jay - There's some really cool stuff you can branch out into - and also some stuff that it'll make you realize about your own playing if you take the time to analyze it enough.

[KCDrummer]

This is what I call a "dialogue" between two limbs/voices and I love playing this way. I think it makes the music much more improvisational and interactive than playing one static pattern and another super-imposed over it. You can eventually get to where all four limbs (ride, snare, bass and HH) are participating in this dialogue, sort of combining some linear concepts with some layered ones. It can get kind of busy so I don't use it all the time, but in the right context it's really cool.

[Clayton_C]

Yes! I've been exploring this element of comping lately... also I found that rudiments can help too... this is probably very elementary for you... but when you play this sticking in triplets with the right hand on the ride and the left on the snare (and get it FAST), it keeps the typical jazz ride pattern going with constant triplets chattering on the snare beneath it. Anyway here it is:
RLLRLR
And obviously there's a lot of other things you could do... anyways I'm exploring this too and I have to agree, it's very fun. :)

[Deathmetalconga]

Yes! I've been exploring this element of comping lately... also I found that rudiments can help too... this is probably very elementary for you... but when you play this sticking in triplets with the right hand on the ride and the left on the snare (and get it FAST), it keeps the typical jazz ride pattern going with constant triplets chattering on the snare beneath it. Anyway here it is:
RLLRLR
And obviously there's a lot of other things you could do... anyways I'm exploring this too and I have to agree, it's very fun. :)

I do this kind of variation a lot also. A swing pattern and alternating triplets are very close in feel and I like to slip triplets into a swing, or even play fills in triplets. It adds a neat variation but you never lose the swing feel.