Is this cheating?

[RICHY-18]

if you increase the spring tension on your bass drum pedal alot, would you class it as cheating or a technique ?

some one asked me today i didnt know what to say? i said i don't know.

1. no because its just a pedal its meant to spring back

2. yes because you have a stupid amount of spring on it.

?

bit weird?!!

[Mr. Pasquini]

no. it's not cheating.

[Nodiggie]

lol....I'm a cheater!

Thats the craziest thing I've heard of in a loooooong time. Everyone has unique leg & foot muscles and whatever setting makes you as comfortable as possible getting all those bass notes....MORE POWER TO YA!

[Garvin]

Cheating at what? I don't understand...

[stasz]

Not if you don't get caught. But seriously, there's nothing to "cheat". If that's how you're more comfortable playing the drums then that's great, and you should do it.

[RICHY-18]

lol i wasnt sure what to say, but i didnt think you could cheat lol because its your foot at the end of the day lol

[bojangleman]

if someone acuses you of cheating in that manor, just punch them in the face and laugh...

Alex

[blade123]

Cheating? WTF
No such thing as cheating in music.

[RICHY-18]

it was a bit of a random question lol hahaha i dnt personally do it but i know people who do. i dont think there cheating. just preference i'd say

[jangus]

Cheating? WTF
No such thing as cheating in music.

What about steroids? I smell a scandal.

[bobdadruma]

What about steroids? I smell a scandal. Good thing were not in the Olympics! Oh, RICHY18, I keep my pedals tight too. I'm to lazy to pull my feet up so I let the springs do it for me.

[NUTHA JASON]

cheating. i had no idea we were following any rules.

j

[RICHY-18]

Good thing were not in the Olympics! Oh, RICHY18, I keep my pedals tight too. I'm to lazy to pull my feet up so I let the springs do it for me.
lol
i dnt have a problem with it? i was just asking peoples opinions like?!

[GRUNTERSDAD]

From this point forward, all new forum members will be required to send me blood and urine samples along with 19.95 USD for processing. Steroids and ALL other illegal substances will be screened for as well as STD testing. Once you have passed your screening, the final report will be sent to Nutha, and final email screening and ID theft background check will be certified. Nutha and the other mods will have complete and final say.

[bobdadruma]

From this point forward, all new forum members will be required to send me blood and urine samples along with 19.95 USD for processing. Steroids and ALL other illegal substances will be screened for as well as STD testing. Once you have passed your screening, the final report will be sent to Nutha, and final email screening and ID theft background check will be certified. Nutha and the other mods will have complete and final say. You forgot to leave me your address so I can send my samples to you.

[Joe P]

Is it cheating to tilt your snare drum while you're using traditional grip for rimshots?

NO. It's the same principle. Do what you must to accommodate yourself behind the kit.

[Ironcobra]

If you increase spring tension, the amount of power that is needed to push the pedal down increases, and the amount of power it takes to raise the pedal proportionally decreases. So you're doing the exact same amount of work either way.

[GRUNTERSDAD]

You forgot to leave me your address so I can send my samples to you.

That I did. Just send them to:
Samples
C/O Drummerworld
125 Gretsch Ave.
Renown, Florida 33772
USA, The World

[Ian Williams]

Hello,

Adapt your drum-set to yourself and vice versa, everybody does. Ask Ian Paice, Bill Ward, Carmine Appice, they will tell you the same.
Do not care what others tell you, just follow your heart and passion on your drums!

All the Best,

Ian

[Class A Drummer]

Cheating? I think you need to take a trip over to the coast and clear your mind.

[rhythmjunkie]

I once read in an '06 MD, that Carter Beuford likes his spring tension really loose. Then I read in another MD, that Teddy Campbell likes his spring tension extremely tight. So, it's whatever you're comfortable with.

[dcrigger]

If you increase spring tension, the amount of power that is needed to push the pedal down increases, and the amount of power it takes to raise the pedal proportionally decreases. So you're doing the exact same amount of work either way.

Huh?

More work to push down pedal with a tighter spring (which may indeed be the right thing for a given player or not)

No work for the pedal to raise either way - that's the spring's job.

So spring tension does effect the amount of effort expended.

Or at least it does on my pedal. :-)

dc

[aydee]

Unfortunately it IS cheating. My advice, do it but don't get caught, because if you do Drummer's Collective will come get you & impound your pedal.

Just dont get caught , ok ?

[Leadfoot]

I sat behind Larrie Londin's kit one time at a sound check for an Adrian Belew show. His pedal tension was cranked down as tight as it would go. It is whatever you prefer & what works for you, I really don't think Larrie got to be an "A list" drummer by cheating.

[Ironcobra]

Huh?

More work to push down pedal with a tighter spring (which may indeed be the right thing for a given player or not)

No work for the pedal to raise either way - that's the spring's job.

So spring tension does effect the amount of effort expended.

Or at least it does on my pedal. :-)

dc

If you increase spring tension, it's harder push down, but easier to pull up. And vice versa. Whatever you put into the spring, your getting right back out of the spring.

[bobdadruma]

This has become an interesting physics Question. I think that gravity also comes into play. The pedals footrest has weight and your foot has weight. When you are pushing down gravity is helping you push. When the spring returns it has to overcome weight from your foot and footrest. You get less help from the spring on the return.

[dcrigger]

If you increase spring tension, it's harder push down, but easier to pull up. And vice versa. Whatever you put into the spring, your getting right back out of the spring.

"but easier to pull up"??

There's is no pulling. The pedal comes up slower or faster depending on the spring tension. The player does no pulling to make that happen.

Short of a "seat belt" strapping one's foot to the pedal that is. ;-)

dc

[bobdadruma]

I guess that we have answered the question. I will define cheating as, The drummer with the tighter spring has the advantage. He really doesn't have an advantage. He just pushes down harder. As long as the pedal returns fast enough to set up for the next stroke the bass play will be the same. I did some reading on the physics and there is so much happening here thats its mind boggling. The drum pedal is much more complicated a machine than first meets the eye. It uses the laws of leverage, inertia, gravity, centrifugal force just to name a few.
So RICKY18; Tell your friend that tightening the spring is definitely not cheating and science can prove it.

[bobdadruma]

"but easier to pull up"??

There's is no pulling. The pedal comes up slower or faster depending on the spring tension. The player does no pulling to make that happen.

Short of a "seat belt" strapping one's foot to the pedal that is. ;-)

dc I looked at the design of how the pedal works. It doesn't come back slower with a weaker spring. It doesn't return with as much force. The manufactures only leave a limited amount of adjustment in the spring to prevent a slow response.

[deltadrummer1]

Is it cheating to tilt your snare drum while you're using traditional grip for rimshots?

NO. It's the same principle. Do what you must to accommodate yourself behind the kit.

Exactly. You're still completing the task of executing a technique. It's not cheating.

[aydee]

I wont bring up the Dualist debate because its been discussed to death, but more Questions:


Is it cheating to trigger sequences or sound samples from your drum kit?
( e.g.Akira Jimbo/ Futureman/Kenwood Dennard/Marco Minnieman )

[tbmills]

I wont bring up the Dualist debate because its been discussed to death, but more Questions:

Is it cheating to trigger sequences or sound samples from your drum kit?

( e.g.Akira Jimbo/ Futureman/Kenwood Dennard/Marco Minnieman )

is it cheating to have an instrument with fully synthesized sounds? ie. electric guitar w/ effects...

i love how drums are natural and physical and acoustic... my brother plays guitar and i always comment on how his picking gets those amazing distorted delay sounds. he doesnt like that.

to me, its not cheating if it required special skill to do it. i couldnt step up and play a dualist the right way. i couldnt play futurman's half drumitar/ quarter acoustic kit/ quarter e-kit...

by the way got to meet futureman himself.........
http://i286.photobucket.com/albums/ll106/tbmills1/futureman.jpg
he let me wear his pirate hat (from the future) but he wouldnt let me get a picture with it on...

[crdirtRider856]

If there is such a thing as "cheating" with drums, well... I think I m guilty. See, I have this little man, not so much as a man but a little guy I like to refer to as my " helper". He hits the notes that I, in my infinitely "learning" journey of the world as a percussionist, cannot do without. He helps me pass the test, which all drummers will come across eventually. Which shows the drum "gods" what we are all capable of...."performing". I ll loan him to you, for a price...(he fits inside your toes)

On the other side- I have learnt that there is no "test" or set of rules that states what any drummer can do or use an "outside" force to either appear or present themselves in a way that is not evident in what is presented...at the time of said performance....

(taken fom the book-'The test of Drumming') :P

[aydee]

At some point we have to view every sound we make as music.

Futureman & Jimbo have kinda redefined the drum kit..if you can even call it that.

Great pic ,TBM. By the way, he's hell of drummer on a regular kit as well.

[LM201]

What are you guys talking about you can't cheat at drums?

I do it all the time.The next time you get on your set, do this- Hx3, C1, Bx19, HHx2, HH B & S at the same time, Rx2, C2x12, Lx9, and HRx47.

H= High tom C1=Crash One C2=Crash Two B=Bass Drum HH=high hats HR=High tom rim click R=ride S=snare and L=low tom

Have fun finally being masters!

[DamoSyzygy]

Theres no such thing as cheating on drums.

[crdirtRider856]

[QUOTE=LM201 do this- Hx3, C1, Bx19, HHx2, HH B & S at the same time, Rx2, C2x12, Lx9, and HRx47.

H= High tom C1=Crash One C2=Crash Two B=Bass Drum HH=high hats HR=High tom rim click R=ride S=snare and L=low tom

Have fun finally being masters![/QUOTE]

I just did this and my drums all dissapeared! So I tried cheating and now my drums are gone... : (

LM201- I m holding you responsible and hope you have a trick to get em back...See, this is what happens when you try cheating at drums! Wouldnt recommend it. : P

[jonescrusher]

Ignore these people, this is most definitely cheating. If you're doing this, don't dare consider yourself a drummer, let alone a musician.

[crdirtRider856]

Ignore these people, this is most definitely cheating. If you're doing this, don't dare consider yourself a drummer, let alone a musician.

Now you tell me! I thought this was a surefire way to become the greatest drummer of all time. Why is it, that the easiest way always has a catch? I guess since I attempted to cheat at drums...I will now consider myself..........a singer. : (((

Jokin btw

[jonescrusher]

Now you tell me! I thought this was a surefire way to become the greatest drummer of all time. Why is it, that the easiest way always has a catch? I guess since I attempted to cheat at drums...I will now consider myself..........a singer. : (((

Jokin btw

Lol. The original post is one of the funniest i've read in a time. Trust the Welsh!

[mrchattr]

Wow, there are a lot of good questions in here.

Going along with them, I have one of my own.

I have a wife, but am a professional drummer in a popular band. When I score with groupies, is that cheating?

:-P

[MaDaBe]

Isn't the only way to play quick 16 and 32 notes . . . with a tighter spring so the beater pops off the head better? I'm confused by this thread. There's a spring on the pedal. You tighten or loosen it. Wouldn't cheating require modifying the thing like putting some kind of air compressor thingy on it?

[crdirtRider856]

Wow, there are a lot of good questions in here.

Going along with them, I have one of my own.

I have a wife, but am a professional drummer in a popular band. When I score with groupies, is that cheating?

:-P

I d guess it depends on how tight the groupie's springs are, or if its a "professional" groupie could factor in...

[drumhead61]

LOL, I am a noob @ drumming and do not believe it is cheating...if you can do it you do it from the ability within to make that happen spring tension or not...set the kit the way you feel happy with it.

[Drumsword]

I d guess it depends on how tight the groupie's springs are, or if its a "professional" groupie could factor in...

ROFLOL ROFLOL.......

[mrchattr]

I d guess it depends on how tight the groupie's springs are, or if its a "professional" groupie could factor in...

Snicker, snicker...tight...snicker...

[Raymond Bloom]

That doesn't matter how tight or loose you set those springs, if you use them on bass drum pedals, that's cheating already!

[Vipercussionist]

if you increase the spring tension on your bass drum pedal alot, would you class it as cheating or a technique ?

some one asked me today i didnt know what to say? i said i don't know.

1. no because its just a pedal its meant to spring back

2. yes because you have a stupid amount of spring on it.

?

bit weird?!! Absolutely NOT cheating, whatever works fo you is what works.

I do have a bit of a problem with drummers who use The Dualist pedal however, it adds notes you didn't actually play, I'm really on the fence with that.
.
.

[zambizzi]

Yes, and you will be fined in excess of $10,000 and/or serve a 3 month sentence in a federal prison.

Now, if you were using a DUALIST pedal, THAT would be cheating! Hah! Now that I lit that tinder box, I'm going to run away...laughing.

[zambizzi]

Aww crap, Viper, you beat me to it. When the words "cheating" and "pedal" appear in the same thread...it's usually a race to turn it into a debate about the Dualist pedal.

[Vipercussionist]

Aww crap, Viper, you beat me to it. When the words "cheating" and "pedal" appear in the same thread...it's usually a race to turn it into a debate about the Dualist pedal. HA HA !!

Sorry Zam, we'll just think of it as TWO signatures on the petition to ban The Dualist!!

L0L!!
.
.

[byronand]

I have a wife, but am a professional drummer in a popular band. When I score with groupies, is that cheating?

:-P

Yes mrchatter, that's cheating.

But, as the drummer, it's forgivable.

However, if you were merely the guitar player, or bass, or keys, or whatever, it would not be :-P

[Vipercussionist]

Yes mrchatter, that's cheating.

But, as the drummer, it's forgivable.

However, if you were merely the guitar player, or bass, or keys, or whatever, it would not be :-P *points finger* I did NOT have sexual relations with that woman!!
*shifty eyes*
.
.

[nacdrummer3]

Isn't the only way to play quick 16 and 32 notes . . . with a tighter spring so the beater pops off the head better? I'm confused by this thread. There's a spring on the pedal. You tighten or loosen it. Wouldn't cheating require modifying the thing like putting some kind of air compressor thingy on it?

Not at all. It all depends on the drummer. If you feel alot more comfortable with a tighter spring tension and can go faster with it then thats what works for you. I know for me i have them loose. And i play in a band that has death metal, thrash metal, and speed metal songs, that go over the 200bpm mark and it is working for me...So spring tension is a preference thats why they give you the option on the pedal to change the tension to suit your playing. And to everybody else how can t be cheating at all. They give you the option to put it that tight, MaDaBe is right if you put like an air compressor which makes it go faster or use the dualist pedal just to play those tempos then yeah its cheating but its not cheating if you like the spring tension really tight

[mrchattr]

Yes mrchatter, that's cheating.

But, as the drummer, it's forgivable.

However, if you were merely the guitar player, or bass, or keys, or whatever, it would not be :-P

Sounds like a plan to me. I knew I loved drumming for some reason.

[BWT hooligan]

I have Iron Cobras and what i really like about em is the fact that you can set the spring tight for perfect bounceback and yet it somehow remains real easy on the way down and you dont have to sweat at all. My old yamaha pedal was really horrible compared to it. I think it might have something to do with the beater itself. Cobras and Axis have unique beaters and perhaps thats why they are the most popular pedals on the market.

Frankly, i just dont understand how people play on loose pedals, unless they play straight up single notes all the time.

[kheddar]

The only way you could cheat would me to mislead people as to the way in which you play. Using the duallist a on recording is not cheating, but it will become cheating if you make people think you used regular pedals. Same with quantizing your drum track, etc. Nothing wrong with quantizing per se (except for the fact it makes your playing lifeless), but if you have people believe the track wasn't cleaned up, you're cheating.

[Wavelength]

Frankly, i just dont understand how people play on loose pedals, unless they play straight up single notes all the time.

I have no problems playing quick doubles and triples with a loose pedal - even a Yamaha. It's all about what you're used to.

[king fail]

I have not gone through the entire thread, but here's my view on the original question;


unless you are competing for WFD or whatever, you cannot "cheat"
you are making music right? if you end up with the sound you like, it doesn't matter how you get it! Drumming is no competition, we're just musicians, making (or trying to make!) nice sounds.



heres something i like to think about - "compete not for chops, but ideas."