Gigs and rate of pay??? I have no idea

[mikei]

Well,

Things kind of went from jamming into the garage to "gigging" pretty fast.

I was given a local promoter/booker's phone number to call from a friend. Anyway, after forwarding him some tips, he wants to start booking us for shows. He originally wanted us to play August 30, but our guitarist is going to be out of town.

The promoter asked what our "rate" of pay requirements were. I told him that we would play the first couple of shows "free" to get our foot in the door assuming they were local. However, I did tell him that after that, we would want "fair and adequate" compensation.

My question is, what kind of gig deserves what kind of compensation?

So it looks like Band 1 (clips you have seen) is going to have some September and October action. Looks like it will be at a Bikini Bar (I guess it could be worse!).

Band 2 (no video clips yet) is lined up for a surprise birthday party on Sept 6th.

Is there any information I should know on pay rates (I certainly don't want to price myself out of a gig as I really could care less if I get paid) and working with promoters?

In the past, I have only asked for drumming/gear help. Anything you could offer on the business side would be great.

Thanks again.

[crdirtRider856]

Good question, but theres no easy answer here...there are a few guidelines, and nobody wants to be ripped off, but I think this is a learn as you go situation.

When my first band started playing, we were making from $250-$500 a show. This was in '95 so if inflation and current USD value will play a role- is something I couldnt tell you. We were assigned the role of "houseband" for this bar and a few other clubs af after that.This is a good thing to do and it looks good on your "resume". We started bringing our own crowd and when the owner noticed increased revenue from people that came just because we were playing, he upped it to $750 every show. As houseband, we were contracted to play every other Saturday night and eventually we were houseband for 4 different bars/clubs. With this we were able to up our fee to $1000 by '98-'99. NOTE- we were regularly bringing anywhere from 10- 100+ people in on the nights we would play. This will only happen after a few years and all the while basically begging our fiends and family to come to each and every show.(we even rented buses to transport attendees to the farther gigs{wild times})

So, as time went on we eventually obtained a manager, while a manager may get you more money and keep you from getting shorted, he will recieve a cut(ours was 12%) It was all good though because he got us into the best places with the highest pay. Some places will charge a cover to patrons and the band will recieve their fee plus a % of the total recieved from the cover charge. If your band is well known the cover will be more on the night you play because if people will pay more when you re playing, than you are making them money. Simple math and economics figure in with that.

I m sorrry for the long-winded reply but like I said, there is no easy answer. I guess you should look at whats more important- money or the joy of performing. I never expected to get rich from playing drums but at our peak, I was coming home with about $1500 a week, cash.('02-'05) I never quit my day job driving a rig but if you are serious and your bandmates are too, then maybe look into a manager. For starting out, I would guess anywhere from $300-$500 is pretty decent. You also must remember that if you do not have your own soundman and lightshow, these are things that are expensive but make for a much better experience for your audience, and in turn, will build a fanbase.I m going to cut myself off now, as this is a little much to be reading at one time. Please, if you would like to ask me any questions, feel free. I have played in cover/original bands for close to 15 years and I have seen alot. I m sure many others here have more experience or better advice, but I will say(not trying to brag) I was in a top Philadelphia band with a well known manager(Billy Stott Prod.) and if I can help you in any way, I d be more than happy!

Good Luck and DRUM ON! Ian

[fat in the middle]

By all means please don't feed the bar owners or alike, the idea musicians will play for free. It keeps the wages down remarkably for those out slogging it as full timers. Too many places take advantage of desperate musicians wanting to play no matter what [even to get their foot in the door] Once the foot is in the door what do you say now? They [bar owners] probably know the players have day jobs, so they will lowball, their club will get packed by people, and they will profit...it goes on and on. Its a world wide trend, but I think we can demand a good wage. The only problem is its been going on for so long that there is so much damage already. { I have a gig today for really crap pay- so follow the hypocracy!]

[GRUNTERSDAD]

I would think that your booker/promoter would have a good idea as to what his other bands are making in the area, or are you guys the first? He should know what the "scale" is for a startup, four piece band, playing in a bar, party etc. If he knows his trade he should have somewhat how your bands, talent rates or compares to local talent and go from there.

[Derek]

Hey Mike,

We both live in So. Cal.( I'm on the edge of L.A. -Orange County).

Although all things vary a general rule of thumb for cover bands playing in a bar in our area is around 80 - 100 bucks per musician.Of course that is generally for trio or quartet.Sometimes more, but that's ballpark for where we live.

[bballdrummer34]

My question is, what kind of gig deserves what kind of compensation?

I usually try to get paid for ALL of my gigs. It is a bad day when I have to gig for free. I do it vary rarely. At the least, for a 3 hour gig, I would expect $100 per person.

[KCDrummer]

I usually try to get paid for ALL of my gigs. It is a bad day when I have to gig for free. I do it vary rarely. At the least, for a 3 hour gig, I would expect $100 per person.

Yup. IMO, it reflects poorly on yourself and your bandmates when you offer to play for free. To me, your basically saying "We're just starting out and we kinda suck, so we're not worthy of getting paid yet." If you have a figure you can quote, even if it's one you pulled out of thin air, I think you'll be taken more seriously.

$100 a man is a good place to start. That figure could go up or down depending on many things: what kind of gig it is, whether there is a cover charge, whether you get a cut of the bar, whether the place is privately owned or corporately owned, weeknight vs. weekend, how long the gig is, how big the place is, how many cats are in your band, etc.

Whatever you do, whatever agreement you come to with this promoter guy, make sure you get it in writing and make sure both parties sign a contract stating when the band will play, how much they will be paid, etc. Promoters and club owners WILL screw a band if they have the chance.

[rmandelbaum]

I would add to these comments it really depends where you are. Here in Austin there are hundreds, if not more bands. A large percentage of them will play for free. So the pay scale here sucks unless you have a name or play private high end gigs. It has been about 9 years since I lived where you are. but back ten there were not a lot of bands.

Basic supply and demand ;-)

[fat in the middle]

I would add to these comments it really depends where you are. Here in Austin there are hundreds, if not more bands. A large percentage of them will play for free. So the pay scale here sucks unless you have a name or play private high end gigs. It has been about 9 years since I lived where you are. but back ten there were not a lot of bands.

Basic supply and demand ;-)

This is a good point. In large music centres like Austin, Nashville or London, the hunger for bands to ''make it'' brings down the scale considerably. I am curious if the changing recording industry [read; record companies vs internet/ stage sales] along with a strong union bring the scale back up? Or is that just a pipe dream.

[crdirtRider856]

Here in Austin there are hundreds, if not more bands. A large percentage of them will play for free. ;-)

Good for club owners, bad for those who depend on playing as a means of income. I m a bit surprised to hear this! Do they even know that they are losing money? I see why a band would do it for cheap, but free? I m all for the joy of playing live but why would a band consistently provide time and service to make someone else money, while at the same time-putting wear and tear on equipment,paying for gas driving to shows, even paying for drinks at the venue they are playing at? Is this a new trend? or location specific?

[rmandelbaum]

I was shocked when I moved here to find this situation. I am from southern California. It was not like this there.

The standard mode of pay here for a lot of clubs is 10% of the bar.

Or the one I think is even worse is they expect you to play for free to them but you can post your own door person and charge at the door and you can keep whatever you make.

I did about 4 months in a blues / classic rock band slugging out on 6th street. Only to feel used at the end of the night.

I agree 100% with the doing it for the love of music but it is hard to enjoy it when you know you are being taken advantage of.

[Tylerdrums109]

It's all about what your band, your booking agency, and the venue your playing thinks is fair...some times the gigs pay will be higher than others...sometimes lower...my band barely ever gets payed we just play for fun and to see how far we can go...all we ask is money to replace the gas we used to get to the gig and get home....so yeah i probably wasnt helpful at all with that but there it is...most of the more popular bands that our local where i live ask for a flat rate...usually some where from 300-600 dollars...maybe that piece of information was more helpful?

[caddywumpus]

How much does each person want to make per gig?

You should have a figure in mind that is the very least your band would even consider leaving the house for. You should add some to that total and have that be your target price. Add some to that, and have that be your quoted price. This gives you room to negotiate your price down when booking. Consider getting food/drink/lodging/other benefits as compensation as well, or as a way for the booking party to "bring down" your cost. Also, factor in travel time and cost into your price per gig, as well as the length of the gig.

Make sure when all is said and done, both parties are happy (band and employer). That way, it enables positive word of mouth to spread about your group, and leads to future gigs.

Good luck!

[mrchattr]

A few things from a guy who goes through this on a daily basis:

1. DON'T PLAY FOR FREE. For the reasons listed above, and because, at the end of the day, if you're willing to play for free, why pay for you? Also, bands generally make more money every few times they play a place (start at $350 first time, maybe the second time, then $450 if you are proving that you can bring a crowd, then $550, etc). If you start at $0, it's a slower progression.

2. Location is everything here. And I don't just mean nationally. Generally, I tend to gig within two hours of my house. Of course, where I am at, this can mean Reading, Philly, Harrisburg, Baltimore, Washington DC, or many small towns in between. The general pay scale varies greatly. For instance, my acoustic trio plays DC for around $600-$1000 plus lodging. This is considered a good rate from us, and once we make more of a name for ourselves there, will be going up. Meanwhile, in Reading, that group will pull around $300 a gig. Still $100 a person, so you can't really complain, but you're not going to get more than that, even though we have a larger following in Reading, people know us, and we are well respected. As a matter of fact, we started in Reading playing for around $150 a show. DC started us around $600. Philly started us around $300.

3. Determine what it's worth to you guys to play. A lot of times, we get offered crappy-paying gigs...something like, "You can play for what we make at the door," at a venue and town that you've never played before (so no real following), and then you get there and they charge like a $3 cover. You have to decide if you want to do that kind of thing. Our philosophy is that we'll do something like that if we have good gigs that weekend as well...we'd rather play than not, but it's also not worth moving all our stuff, working our butts off, traveling to the gig, and making $14 at the end of the night, unless you are already going to be working (and thus moving the stuff, etc) that weekend. There's a big difference between playing a Friday gig for $15 per person, then having the rest of the weekend off, and playing a Friday gig for $15 per person, then making $100 the next night and $150 the night after that.

[enforcerdrummer]

Last spring I asked my a college professor about gig pay regarding jazz music. He said that each person should make no less than $75. What do you all think? I'm just starting out but of course there would be nothing wrong if I was offered more!

[byronand]

For GRUNTERSDAD's new avatar, I'd play for free! :)

[Nodiggie]

There is a lot of good posts here to total up some good averages for you. Here is some more input for ya:

Around here a DJ will cost you $400/hr on up. A good cover band makes $1200-$1500 for a 1-2-hr set.

My old Latin/Jazz band would take $600 - $900 for a 1-2hr set.

I won't set my drums up and play anywhere for less than $125 unless it is for a fund raiser or great cause such as Relay For Life or some other cause, in which case we have played for free. Remember, you guys are worth waaaay more than any DJ so don't sell yourself short!


Hope it all works out for you...

[Vipercussionist]

Yup. IMO, it reflects poorly on yourself and your bandmates when you offer to play for free. Thank you!! I'll agree and take it one step further, I'll add that it makes the entire music scene more exploitable!! It makes it worse for ALL the bands in the area!!

Why would a club owner PAY YOU if he can get a band for FREE?? Why would he pay any band a reasonable nights wage when he can get a band for free, and so on and so on.

If you just want to play, trust me I understand, but the club is GOING TO MAKE MONEY, or he'd go out of business, so they can afford to pay you SOMETHING.

People charge money for junk at a yard sale, and you would be willing to give away your band for NOTHING??

If they'll let you play for nothing they'll give you a 1 or 2 hundred bucks or so. If they can't cover that they're in deep do-do anyway and will be closed within the month.

If you just wish to play, rent out a VFW style hall, let the hall supply the cash bar and tell all your friends it's FREE. Pass the hat at the end of the night and you'll certainly make more than NOTHING!!

If you go out on the town, how much do you spend at a nightclub?? Well, take that amount and multiply it by the number of patrons at your next gig. That will give you an idea of how much total money is being made. I realize it's expensive to run an establishment like that, but there is obviously a budget set aside for entertainment, I doubt they get ALL of their bands for free!!
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[bobdadruma]

We recently played a gig with a four piece in a medium sized club. The price was $100 per man. The owner of the club asked us why we didn't bring a sound man and a light show. We laughed and said to him, You want lights and sound for $400 bucks! He said yea, Most of the other bands that play here bring them. Its a world gone mad I tell ya, A world gone mad!