Too Double Bass or not to Double Bass

[Latin Groover]

This turned pretty much turned into the double pedal thread. I never got one, nor do i see a musical application for me with one.

[NUTHA JASON]

i'm in a similar position. years ago i owned a d/bass pedal for about a year but just couldn'e get the hang of it (not that i tried too hard mind you) but now i am seriously considering it again. the fact is that my single bass technique is growing monsterously fast and powerful...i love the fact that gigs i can spot the drummers in the audience (the ones whose eyes never leave you for a minute) looking for what double pedal i'm using and then seeing that i am not. sure i cannot play that kind of death metal stuff, but my band doesn't require ot of me...yet.

so do i go lars ulrich or do i go nico mcbrain?

my current decision is to remain single for another year but then review the whole thing. it really depends on what the music industry is demanding. music is generally getting heavier and rockier (thank goodness).

j

[Lambo]

I'd pick one up. Just don't neglect your hi hat.

[glynes]

I've been debating the same question for awhile now ... my situation is, I'm not a "monster player" on the single pedal, and doubt if I ever will be. I'd like a double pedal to fill in where I can't get the speed/beat I want with one foot. I'm told it's not easy to master, and I should wait awhile, but I've also been told that if it makes drumming fun, to go for it, as long as I don't neglect other techniques I'm working on. I've never tried one ... hoping my new teacher has one we can set up for me to take a shot at.
My advice would be to get one and give it a try.

[dragonfire]

ive been playing for 3 and a half years and ive had a double pedal for 2 years. It really helps with hi hat stuff i found... i used to be able to go at the metal pace with my feet but i havent really used it since easter. Just started using it again. its handy for some fills but (if your not playing metal) you dont really need one for groovin until your sure you can use it musicaly as opposed to ruining the groove for the sake of it.

[aahznightsky]

I would agree with Nutha

once you've got on foot kicking it, that will help know what to work on when you get a double bass pedal.

from the sounds of it I would say that Nutha is ready for a double pedal lol!

[Dyaxe]

some people like to have both there feat equally "powerfull". ive been playin for a year, and i got a DB pedal about 2 months ago, and its definetely "beefed up" my right foot (i play on a left handed setup). havin a double pedal handy also opens a wide range of new fill ect... some people love havin double pedals, some don't.

[mr_hayward_99]

I went to a drum lesson a month or so ago and asked the bloke if he could give me some exercises to improve my 16th notes on my (single) bass drum, and he said why dont u just get a double kick, its much easier.

what the ? this didn't impress me,

I have been playing for about 5yrs on and off and my single kick is pretty powerful now, got good speed pn triplets and quads (4's) are getting there. I have always thought my best atribute on the drums was my kick drum. which is wherre i get my influences nicko, bonzo.

You can use a single kick but for some beats it will just sound fatter if u have the double kick.

I would think about getting one but i am broke and they are well expensive, so for now ill just practice my left foot hihat, and keep practicing fireing those triplets iron maiden sttyle.

The main thing double bass is really good for is running on the drums. and if uy u play heavy metal its pretty useful.

but definatly, i wouldn't get a doubvle kick till i am happy with my right foot, then once thats mastered, might as well try mastering the other foot as well.

[FatherTime]

Well, I got one of these just last week and it cost me (ready for this?) $150.00 CDN brand new on sale (Reg. $179.95 CDN). I went to the store and they had these and the DW's that everybody is so into. I tried them both and found that there was "exstreamly" little difference in the feel and speed of these and also the quality of the construction of them. The only difference was the "name tag price" of over $500.00 for the DW's. Here's the link for the one I got. I also have some of their other hardware too, nice stuff.

http://www.dixondrumhardware.com/811db.html

I would have to say that since I've gotten this thing my left foot is slowly getting better although it will take time. The good thing about it is that I'm starting to think a little differently about what I can do with my hihat. Things I would never had even "thought" of doing I'm now "doing" (well at least trying), so there are some very good advantages in getting one. It's not just for the sake of being able to get great chops or playing metal it will enhance your groove playing abilities too cause it will open up things to you that you other wise may not have thought of doing before. :-)

[funked_up]

DO NOT GET ONE until you are very comfortable with one pedal. double bass drum pedals are a very useful tool, but only when you have the single pedal pretty much 'mastered'. everyone always says 'dude! look how fast that double bass drum is going!" or "dude get one then you can play all that cool fast stuff!" this is not true. if you are good enough with your hands and feet, you shouldnt need a double bass drum. i mean come on, most of the old jazz drummers didnt use a double bass drum. and they are/were the best drummers ever. HOWEVER, there is one exception in my opinion. if you want to play metal or thrash or soemthing, you should probably CONSIDER getting one. thats what i have to say. hopefully you will take my advice. haha.

Tim

[Slayer_metal_head]

well i think the double bass could contribute to any musical style, and i think that you should not corner yourself by getting a double bass early,anyways im getting a double bass pedal soon (x-mas hehe) hopefully and i told that to my drum teacher so then he started getting me on these bass drum exercises, now i am able to do things that it sounds like i am using a doulbe bass pedal so i think i am ready for a double bass pedal and so does my teacher and he is giving me some double bass exercises that i can practise wit my hihat, but dont be pushed into the corner of using the double bass pedal for things that only one of your feet can do.

[Sticksman]

so do i go lars ulrich or do i go nico mcbrain?


j

go Mike Portnoy ;)

also, my suggestion for everyone, except the most elitist of jazz cats, is to get a double bass pedal once you're comfortable with a single pedal. I know there is a cliche about double bass drummers just rocking with blast beats all day, but the truth is you can do so much more combinations, patterns, ostinatos, and grooves with a DB pedal. I dare say its better than the single pedal, in all aspects. If you practice right, it will dramatically improve your options and ability, as well as bring your left foot up to speed with your right and present more drumming challenges in terms of coordination and independence.

Basically, all it can do is give you the wonderful tool that is itself and improve your playing exponentially.... if you go about it the right way.

[finnhiggins]

go Mike Portnoy ;)

also, my suggestion for everyone, except the most elitist of jazz cats, is to get a double bass pedal once you're comfortable with a single pedal. I know there is a cliche about double bass drummers just rocking with blast beats all day, but the truth is you can do so much more combinations, patterns, ostinatos, and grooves with a DB pedal. I dare say its better than the single pedal, in all aspects. If you practice right, it will dramatically improve your options and ability, as well as bring your left foot up to speed with your right and present more drumming challenges in terms of coordination and independence.

Basically, all it can do is give you the wonderful tool that is itself and improve your playing exponentially.... if you go about it the right way.

Really? I just found it dull and limited, because the amount of music that actually calls for more bass drum notes rather than less is pretty small. I mean, all the things you're talking about with hand/foot combinations... it's not like you've grown another limb here, it's just another pedal on your bass drum. You've already got a left foot, why is it musically useful to use it to play more bass drum rather than hi-hat or cowbell or something? Not only that, having the left foot on another sound source actually opens up MORE practical options than double kick because you can do unisons as well as flams and linear patterns.

I'm no elitist jazz cat, but I think my double pedal was the biggest waste of money I've managed as a drumkit player so far - the only thing it was ever useful for was playing Tool covers.

[jangus]

At the moment I refuse to buy a double pedal, and I've been playing for about 3 years.

[Reflux own your mum]

The way I see it, becoming proficient with a double pedal can only add to your drumming options. Yes, a lot of metal bands rinse double-bass for all its worth and I don't really enjoy that as a style of drumming, however when used creatively it can add to the variety of possible grooves/fills. After all you wouldn't refuse to use both of your sticks on any other drum would you? Having a double pedal doesn't mean you have to sacrifice hi-hat work, it just gives you the option.

Now if only i could use a double pedal half as tastefully as Brann Dailor, I'd be happy. That guy is amazing.

[finnhiggins]

The way I see it, becoming proficient with a double pedal can only add to your drumming options. Yes, a lot of metal bands rinse double-bass for all its worth and I don't really enjoy that as a style of drumming, however when used creatively it can add to the variety of possible grooves/fills. After all you wouldn't refuse to use both of your sticks on any other drum would you? Having a double pedal doesn't mean you have to sacrifice hi-hat work, it just gives you the option.


In theory, no it doesn't. In reality it probably does to some extent, in that playing double pedal well requires quite a lot of practice time. If you dedicate that practice time to being able to play interesting left-foot ostinatos on the hi-hat you'll have exactly the same number of extra musical options the double pedal would open up in your playing, yet I would argue that they'd be more practical and musical.

The real issue comes here, for me: What do you TAKE OUT of your practice routine in order to be able to put in double pedal practice? I can't think of anything to take out that is less musical than lots of fast notes on the bass drum, so for me I just let the double pedal rust! I do vaguely have a plan for it, but I need to buy an 18" bass drum... (need a remote pedal so I can get at two different bass drums with my right foot)

[Reflux own your mum]

Thats true, i suppose you do need to use practice time. But double bass can be used for so much more than just every 16th note pounding, it opens up the use of a few fast 16ths in a groove, not at the expense of an interesting beat. you could still fit some hihat stuff in, just by changing over. I suppose if you are good at heel-toe you could do that anyway, but i'm not (my discipline and therefore technique sucks).

[finnhiggins]

Thats true, i suppose you do need to use practice time. But double bass can be used for so much more than just every 16th note pounding, it opens up the use of a few fast 16ths in a groove, not at the expense of an interesting beat. you could still fit some hihat stuff in, just by changing over. I suppose if you are good at heel-toe you could do that anyway, but i'm not (my discipline and therefore technique sucks).

You're right - it doesn't have to be every 16th. I must admit I never liked that approach, I bought the double pedal basically because of Tim Alexander. But after listening to his stuff for a while longer I realised that most of what's really cool about it isn't the double pedal. His double pedal stuff sounds cool because his time and feel are so advanced, and because it works well with the bass drum sound he uses (which is appropriate in the band he's playing in). You could take away his double pedal and he'd still be a million times better than me and would still have his identity intact. The double pedal might be very obvious to drummers, but it's probably the smallest part of what makes Herb a really cool drummer.

The main thing that put me off was that the double pedal just never seemed to be seriously called for in anything I was doing. If I left it at home none of the music I was playing suffered in the slightest, and indeed was often better because I'd choose my notes more carefully. So it was really quite hard to justify working on it - I was becoming increasingly of the opinion that less is most definitely more on the bass drum. The way I see it, double-kick patterns under snare drum backbeats aren't any more interesting than snare drum patterns over a 4-on-the-floor bass drum, and you can pretty much interchange them in most musical situations for a similar effect.

The only exception would be if I was playing something like Meshuggah or Fear Factory where the fast kick drum is clearly required to double the other ludicrously fast parts flying around the low end. But considering I get asked to play that stuff approximately never I'll work on more useful stuff in the meantime instead!

[Bango61]

I'm a single peddaler too, and I've been playing for almost a decade, haven't really thought of getting a double...

[FloEy]

iv been playin 4 only a year and can do jo jo mayers technique. Would it be wrong for me to get one? Personally when i was at the gc drum off everyone used the double bass and to be honest it could be used in a very cool way espeacially in solos. I honestly wouldnt care about being extremly fast but just having the ability to do it.

[Derek Matthews]

I've been playing for about a month or so. I bought a double pedal with my kit. As I work on syncopation and stick work I switch which foot is doing the work. I am not really playing double bass but I am working on both feet, because I intend on playing double bass and want to make sure I play well. But, as of now, I am still crawling, and as all of you know you gotta crawl before you walk and walk before you run. I just got off my belly and started crawling.

[Drad-dog]

I always think of music as personal expression. If the double bass thing sounds good to you, and you want to work it in to what you do stylistically, then go for it. How much/often double bass is "required" in the music you happen to be playing shouldn't figure much. That said, someone said already that less is more, and I have to agree with that in many aspects of music. I would never use double bass even if someone gave me one.

a) no one has ever said "Hey man, where's your other bass pedal?"
b) more gear to haul around.

But I still think a drummer should follow the beat of their own drum in ALL respects. If you really want the double bass sound, you'll be glad you spent all the time practicing it, not regretful. Just don't sacrafice anything more important, like working on your groove. Otherwise you'll just be a a double bass wanker!

[jamsjr44]

It's all personal preference and it depends on what you plan to use it for. But I always say you can never have too many tricks up your sleeve. There is nothing wrong with learning how to play one. If your not so sure about it, then pick up a good reliable used one or a cheap new one and see if you like it, if you don't think you will ever need it then at least you didn't play alot of money for it.
I have been playing a double bass pedal since 1988 and one was one of the first in my home town, but times have changed and more and more drummers are using them. Even if you don't play consistent double bass patterns for long periods of time in songs, it can be a nice element to throw it in once in a while if the song will be better for it. So in my opinion try it!

Listen to Neil Peart he isn't known as double bass player, but he uses his so musically in Rush's songs and it works perfect for what he wants to accomplish and the songs he uses it in just adds that much more to the song. He is one of my favorite all time drummers just like Weckl and he uses his more and more. They both may never be Thomas Lang, but then again they don't need to be.

[DrumGod]

I been playin drums for about 2 and a half years and i got my double kick when i was nearly a year playin and that in my opinion and still is my opinion WAY to early and i regret getting it that early cos i didnt really give myself a chance to build up single pedal but i working on my single now alot instead of always the double so my advice to you is to wait until YOU think your READY not wat other people think your the drummer who will be using it!
DRUM ON!!!!!!!!!

[jamsjr44]

I been playin drums for about 2 and a half years and i got my double kick when i was nearly a year playin and that in my opinion and still is my opinion WAY to early and i regret getting it that early cos i didnt really give myself a chance to build up single pedal but i working on my single now alot instead of always the double so my advice to you is to wait until YOU think your READY not wat other people think your the drummer who will be using it!
DRUM ON!!!!!!!!!


I wouldn't blame the double pedal for that I would blame you for not being disciplined enough to work on your single pedal technique as well as your double pedal technique. I still practice single pedal techniques and once I complete my excersises for that, then I start praticing my double pedal excersises and I have not encountered a drop-off in my single pedal playing just because I bought a double pedal. I think most would agree. Learning any new technique takes tremendous discipline.

[classicrockDrummer]

it bugs me when people freak out about getting a double bass pedal. If you get a double bass pedal it doesn't make you a wuss because ur not using a single pedal. I know that when im going my fastest on my single pedal the strokes get weaker, even if its just a little bit. Having a double pedal would fix that so im going to try and get one. Also you don't have to stop practicing single pedal work just because u have a double pedal. I know that with some funky grooves i might wanna do some hi hat work instead of the second pedal, and im not good enough to use both at the same time lol. all im saying is that double pedals shouldn't be considered a bad thing in any aspect. Sure, it may be kinda wussy to use a double pedal for a beat instead of a single pedal, but if u practice u can still do the single pedal and just leave the second one out. BTW bonzo is one of my favorite drummers and if i had the kick mastery skillage that he did, my life would be complete.

[nate]

yes. erm. no. erm. yes.

did that help?

(if you like the way it sounds do it - if not don't)

yes, erm no.

no don't do it.


NO!


yes

[jamsjr44]

Now this comment might offend some and I don't mean to, BUT when I ever I say someone shouldn't try a double bass pedal or any new techique it is usually because the person discounting it can't play it. IMO... I just think you are cutting yourself short by not trying to try something different, it doesn't mean you can't be a good drummer or musician but to me music is about always trying to get better and always exploring different techniques that will help you accomplish that.

[Latin Groover]

i agree with NuthaJason and aahznightsky's. Im not goin to get one until i can play one pedal. That was my original opinion anyway, but i just wasnt sure. And anyway if i did get one i dint want to play it like straight 16ths or even random 16ths i wanted to learn to play it so i coul incorerate it into my latin and afro cuban drumming. I rekon that db in latin/afro-cuban that the notes would be very syncapated and would just add to my drummming so much. I would play it like most people think because i dont play rock i play afro-cuban sort of things so thats why it was a harder desision (for me anyway). But i ve decided not to get one, and anyway they are too expensive. My teacher is one of the best jazz drummers in Australia (like he just gets called up to play in New york and that)(that was about a mont ago) and he has a double kicker but he says that he doesn't realyy use it besides sometimes in solos and that cause he doesn't need it cause he can play it all with one foot. and id rather have one HOLY $H1T foot than too OK feet. So thanks for ll ur input it really helped me.

[drumzalicious]

hey i was thinking of getting a double bass pedal, but i dont no wether i should? So many ppl on this forum have a double bass pedal and thats fine but there are ppl that have that have only been playing for like 2months to a year! Now i think that that is way too early. ive been playing for 2 and a half years now but i dont want to get 1 till im ready. Why try to play to 2 pedals when you cant even play 1 pedal properly. So im thinking that i should get when ive been playing for like 4/5 years. Then ill actually be able to play one pedal properly then go for 2. What do u think

Thanks in advance
i think you can get one as long as you learn to use it instead of abusing it. example: John Blackwell, Tony royster Jr. etc..

[Raymond Bloom]

You should look at the double bass like at bass drum pedal and hi-hat, when practicing you can do all the things with hihat and bass drum because you have two pedals and two legs :-)
It's just another surface which produce a different sound if you want that then get it!

[TicTac]

Hey i've been playing for 4 years now and i just got my 2x pedal last year. I think they r great. i mean i ll admit my right foot is good but not good enough yet. but my left is like amazing now. so i mean it does have its perks and such, but i would get one. Nothing to costly, a middle of the road one. Cuz u might not even like it. But once u get goin theres no goin back!

[fxt_fella]

i would get a double bass pedal. I've been drumming just over 3 1/2 years and my right foot is a monster (yes, even if i do say so myself). problem is, my left foot is wayyyyy behind. so,i got my double half a year ago and when im using my ride or open hats or something like that, i just use my left foot bass pedal 2 do my bass drum instead of my right foot. its gets the strength up and its an easy way 2 get ur left foot working.

[Nunner]

hey hows it going, i personally think double kick is the way to go, i agree u need not get your left foot just about as strong, here is a trick for u to try once u have the double kick down. this will allow you to have control of your high hat and still play double kick. use the fron of your left foot to control your high hat and then use your heal to kick the left bass pedal (only works on double bass pedals not 2 bass drums) it might take a little while for you to get used to but it will allow you to do some kick ass doubles and still have control of your hats. you should be able to multi-task your are a drummer remember.

ps. check out my bands recording at www.purevolume.com/rosemarysbaby remember they are very low quality recordings.

nunner

[Mdrums83]

There are some things you can do with a double pedal that you can simply not do with a single. For ex. check out the Thomas Lang videos. If the music you play doesn't call for this kind of playing don't buy one. If you do buy one make sure you don't use it as a cheater pedal!! Quads and Triplets should be solid with just one foot!!

[zildjian_dude101]

I think u SHOULD play double bass. it just makes so much more possible on ur kit. BUT, do not completely neglect ur single foot. get ur single foot douples and triplets, stuff like that, down too. dont play double bass to single foot beats. i made that mistake. i fixed it though. its a pain.

[Slayer_metal_head]

Buying a double bass pedal is like buying a new tool for your workshop its not like if you buy it too early you are going to die andoyu will suck forever, but think of this if you start off with hte doulbe pedal you will progress with both feet at the same level, but if you start off with the single pedal and uve used it for two years it'll take you that long to get the left ffot back up to your right foot. nut im getting a pedal soon im just thinking of it as a tool and i am also mesmerized at the way it looks when you use both very fast.

But yes try too realize that you can do alot with one foot that you dont need a double pedal for when i just started i listened to pop rock and they were doing quads than a snare hit and i thought you needed a double pedal for that but you dont and i can do it with one pedal now and i have a well develloped right foot and my drum teacher encourages me to get one now.

[Derekpropetto]

Ive been playing for around 2 years and i bought a double pedal the second month i started playing. Single pedal is fun but i figured that when i use a double pedal ur playing sounds more full. U can add foot triplets wherever and do many more things. Now i clocked my feet at 200bpm's which is the fastest i can go without missing beats so its all practice and fun. By the way now i got much better with my hihat playing also because of my double pedals. I play left handed Axis Xl2 pedals. Insane pedals.

[soccermandude]

Yo I'm a drummer looking for a good sophisticated double bass pedal, within the price rande of $200-$250. Right now I have a single Tama Camco and I like it pretty good but I'd really like to get a double bass pedal with speed and power. Any help would be much appreciated :).

[Thinshells]

If this isn't the #1 more frequently asked question, then I am not sure what is. You should do a search for this, but honestly, this forum should have a sticky. Every week or so someone else posts the same thing without ever searching. A sticky would put all that info in one spot.

[cdawg_2010]

I think the best pedal you can get for $200 is the DW 7000. i have it and it works fine and is smooth

[hanman]

What brand or specific type of double bass pedal is well made, built to last and is easy to use and fast?

[franklinj]

One called "The Search Function." Its incredibly fast and easy to use, yet not too many people use it.

[burnthehero]

You gotta be kidding me.

[Thinshells]

As I said, week #2, this same question came up last week. We are two for two. We should have a "pedal" sticky.

[zildjian_dude101]

If your willing to spend the money on it, get a DW 9000. The smoothest pedal out there.

[Thinshells]

If your willing to spend the money on it, get a DW 9000. The smoothest pedal out there.

I have one, and the Pearl eliminator works just as well for $110.

[T.Underhill]

franklinj for the win! Pearl, Tama, DW, Axis, etc all make a quality pedal.

[hardhitter]

go to the axis web page and see the wolds fastest feet !!! He uses the heal to toe on the axis longboard a2's !!
http://www.axispercussion.com/

[MetallicaItalian]

It depends on what you want. Pedals like Axis are not for everybody. If you like heavier pedals go for either a DW 5000, a Yamaha Flying Dragon, or the Pearl Eliminator. The Eliminator is the best value of the 3. I have a DW 5000. DO NOT go out and blow $500 on that 9000 unless you're a proffessional or just have a crapload of money. Same goes for the Axis. The Axis pedals are extremely light and are wayy too responsive for me. You breathe on them and they fly, which is not necessarilya good thing. If, however you can get used to these fast pedals, they can be very useful. I'm accustomed to using heavier pedals because I like to actually be able to feel what I'm doing. Another popular pedal that is on the lighter side ae the Tama Iron Cobras. Keep in mind with a change of the beaters the weight can be significantly increased (beaters that come with the IC's are very light) but that'll be an extra $40 probably. First determine your comfort, go to a local music equipment store and try these models out or find a firend who has them. DW, Yamaha, Pearl, and Tama all make great pedals. It's all about preference and price. If you're looking to spend less money there's the DW 7000's, the Tama Iron Cobra Jrs., and lower end Pearls. It's up to you.

http://www.dwdrums.com/pedals/5000Pedals.htm
http://www.tama.com/drums/tama_link.asp?page=http://www.tamadrum.co.jp/world/products/hardware/pedal/ic_power/index.html
http://www.tama.com/drums/tama_link.asp?page=http://www.tamadrum.co.jp/world/products/hardware/pedal/ic_power/index.html
http://www.yamaha.com/yamahavgn/CDA/ContentDetail/ModelSeriesDetail/0,,CNTID%253D22043%2526CTID%253D216600,00.html

[hardhitter]

It depends on what you want. Pedals like Axis are not for everybody. If you like heavier pedals go for either a DW 5000, a Yamaha Flying Dragon, or the Pearl Eliminator. The Eliminator is the best value of the 3. I have a DW 5000. DO NOT go out and blow $500 on that 9000 unless you're a proffessional or just have a crapload of money. Same goes for the Axis. The Axis pedals are extremely light and are wayy too responsive for me. You breathe on them and they fly, which is not necessarilya good thing. If, however you can get used to these fast pedals, they can be very useful. I'm accustomed to using heavier pedals because I like to actually be able to feel what I'm doing. Another popular pedal that is on the lighter side ae the Tama Iron Cobras. Keep in mind with a change of the beaters the weight can be significantly increased (beaters that come with the IC's are very light) but that'll be an extra $40 probably. First determine your comfort, go to a local music equipment store and try these models out or find a firend who has them. DW, Yamaha, Pearl, and Tama all make great pedals. It's all about preference and price. If you're looking to spend less money there's the DW 7000's, the Tama Iron Cobra Jrs., and lower end Pearls. It's up to you.

http://www.dwdrums.com/pedals/5000Pedals.htm
http://www.tama.com/drums/tama_link.asp?page=http://www.tamadrum.co.jp/world/products/hardware/pedal/ic_power/index.html
http://www.tama.com/drums/tama_link.asp?page=http://www.tamadrum.co.jp/world/products/hardware/pedal/ic_power/index.html
http://www.yamaha.com/yamahavgn/CDA/ContentDetail/ModelSeriesDetail/0,,CNTID%253D22043%2526CTID%253D216600,00.html

yes what you are saing is so true ! the same goes for everything you look at! drum heads, drum shells and cymbols. I don't know why people ask "what do you think is the best?" The best is what you like and what feels good for YOU not everyone has the same thinking on what is the best. It depends on the music you play , your speed and the sound that YOU like.

I really don't think that anyone should be skimpy on how much you spend on your kit! save your money and get what you want ! If not you will not be happy and just go get what you wanted after already waisting your money ! you have to like what your playing on and or with !!

[tmerritt]

I have FINALLY found a Midnight Black Sonor Bass Drum and I have been wanting to turn my set into a double bass drum set for a while now. I already have a tama iron cobra double pedal. If I get this, I will have to get a new hi hat stand and new pedals. Do you think I should?
I really think that 2 bass drums will allow me to set my toms up the way I want and money isnt too big of an issue. I also think the sound will be better. I know this varies for people but I just want to know opinions.

I would also like to know some good hi hat stand choices. I found a Ludwig one but I dont know how good it is(?)

[AE Gauthier]

Well, if money is not an issue, I'd go for it.

[gr82bagn]

Sounds like a great idea so long as money is not an issue. I did the exact same thing with the exact same gear and I'm loving it. I bought a Sonor 3003 and added the second bass drum. On my daily practice kit (eKit) I use the tama iron cobra double bass pedal and at the end of the week I take my practice from the head phones to the Sonor kit. Keep in mind I’m still a novice at this set up but I do feel a difference going from a single double pedal to double singles (say that ten times fast). I also opted to stick with the Sonor stock pedals that came with the 3003 kit so mine were no additional cost (I saw them listed on ebay for like $30) and as far as I’m concerned they are really smooth and pose no problems when making the transformation from eKit to acoustic. I use a cheap remote HH for a more comfortable position. I also use an xHat on my right side by the ride. This is especially comfortable when you lock into a double base drum grove. When you start using the second bass drum you will feel a difference in the way you balance yourself at least I did, then again remember I'm just starting out with the double kick setup. I’m also sure there are a lot of opinions regarding gigging drummers and moving around a second bass drum. Here is a picture of how I set up my toms.

[tmerritt]

Sounds like a great idea so long as money is not an issue. I did the exact same thing with the exact same gear and I'm loving it. I bought a Sonor 3003 and added the second bass drum. On my daily practice kit (eKit) I use the tama iron cobra double bass pedal and at the end of the week I take my practice from the head phones to the Sonor kit. Keep in mind I’m still a novice at this set up but I do feel a difference going from a single double pedal to double singles (say that ten times fast). I also opted to stick with the Sonor stock pedals that came with the 3003 kit so mine were no additional cost (I saw them listed on ebay for like $30) and as far as I’m concerned they are really smooth and pose no problems when making the transformation from eKit to acoustic. I use a cheap remote HH for a more comfortable position. I also use an xHat on my right side by the ride. This is especially comfortable when you lock into a double base drum grove. When you start using the second bass drum you will feel a difference in the way you balance yourself at least I did, then again remember I'm just starting out with the double kick setup. I’m also sure there are a lot of opinions regarding gigging drummers and moving around a second bass drum. Here is a picture of how I set up my toms.

Where did you get your second bass drum? How much did your hi hat stand cost?

[gr82bagn]

The second bass drum I purchased on ebay brand new and in the box for about $165 with shipping. It came with the tom mount and bass pedal. The remote hi hat stand is a Peace stand and cost about $95 plus 10 or 15 dollars shipping that includes the mount. Low end on cost but so far no problems with quality or holding up to some serious pounding.

[Thinshells]

If you don't go double bass, then you risk having a kit that will never be as cool as
gr82bagn's.

[gr82bagn]

Thinshells,
LOL your killing me first thing in the am (before my first cup). Do you think maybe I posted this picture up to many times?

[Thinshells]

Thinshells,
LOL your killing me first thing in the am (before my first cup). Do you think maybe I posted this picture up to many times?

There isn't a statute of limitations of photos of kick-ass kits.

[burnthehero]

If you want to do it, then do it.

[Reflux own your mum]

As long as you can be bothered to move 'em around if you need to. It would be sweet though.

[JStuart]

yes what you are saing is so true ! the same goes for everything you look at! drum heads, drum shells and cymbols. I don't know why people ask "what do you think is the best?" The best is what you like and what feels good for YOU not everyone has the same thinking on what is the best. It depends on the music you play , your speed and the sound that YOU like.

I really don't think that anyone should be skimpy on how much you spend on your kit! save your money and get what you want ! If not you will not be happy and just go get what you wanted after already waisting your money ! you have to like what your playing on and or with !!

At first i went for the Pearl Eliminator which didn't cut it out for me, I Then changed to a Tama Iron Cobra Rolling Glide, but it still wasn't wat i was looking for. I then Changed to a DW 9000 and it was unbelievably brilliant. Now I play with two bass drums so i have 2 DW 9000 Singles on each of my Tama Superstar Bass Drums! Absolutely brilliant.

[tmerritt]

Well here is the thing. I found it on this site http://www.massmusic.net/shop/index.php?cat=110&shop=1& and I THINK I can trust this site. Not sure. It will be 277 with shipping and its not that I care paying that if its worth it. Note: I will have to buy new pedals and new hi hat stand (but I can sell my db pedal). I just want to know if its really worth it. Is the sound a whole lot better? Is the set up hard to get used to? Does going from DB pedal to DB drums make any difference in how fast you play? I just dont know. If its worth it..I dont care to spend money. And oh yeah I dont move my drums much.

[lfdy]

I'd go for a double bass kit too, when money isn't a problem...

And you said it yourself, i you can place your toms better that way, well...go for it :)

[hardhitter]

I'd go for a double bass kit too, when money isn't a problem...

And you said it yourself, i you can place your toms better that way, well...go for it :)


I think that there is like 3 places that I play that I can setup a double bass kit ! I like the axis becouse the same pedals work for double bass and single as a double pedal. But I like the lighter feel of the pedals not everyone likes a light pedal !

Tom placement , get a rack if you want tom placement ! It doesn't get better then that !!

[Slayer_metal_head]

Its funny that since i got my double bass pedal i use my hi-hat more....?

[pittsey]

eariler off u start dbl, the stronger ur left is gonna be

[pcmckay]

I respect the drummers that can play a double bass kit very well, it is definately a skill. I personally could never master it. But on the other hand I think it it is more impressive to see a drummer playing a single bass kit and thinking he must have a double bass pedal and finding out he just has one pedal.

[Stuntsunlimited]

I respect the drummers that can play a double bass kit very well, it is definately a skill. I personally could never master it. But on the other hand I think it it is more impressive to see a drummer playing a single bass kit and thinking he must have a double bass pedal and finding out he just has one pedal.

Double bass kts are just noise, (not making any friends here) But its my opinion... If ur thinking of getting a double pedal, I say go on then, u can only tell buy trying it!

[phillip latimer]

I would like to know the pros and cons of the double bass . I've tryed it once or twise but
not realy enough to say I know anything about how to use them.anthore problem is space
most of the places i've played just didn't have the room to set up all that gear.
thanks

[hungrypo]

if you're not sure about actually having two bass drums, first start with a double pedal and see how you like it. i've been using a double pedal (one bass drum) for a little over a year and a half and i love it. it really has opened up my playing and my foot control. i read somwhere that 90% of a drummers time problems come from their feet, but they spend 90% of their practice time on their hands. once i got the double pedal, i started going through the GL Stone Book "Stick Control", but doing the exercises with my feet and they have really developed ever since. there are those (including Danney Carey) who say that two bass drums sound better. but i dont play a lot of double bass driven music. i just like to use it from time to time to accentuate certain passages in my bands music, or during soloing.

[Tama Player]

Double bass is really common now-a-days.

Pros
1. Lots of different techiniques that go with a wide variety
of music
2. can get some serious speed

3. over all very nice ;)

Cons
1. double bass can be expensive.

2. takes alot of practrice

I hopes this helps!

[Deathmetalconga]

I would like to know the pros and cons of the double bass . I've tryed it once or twise but
not realy enough to say I know anything about how to use them.anthore problem is space
most of the places i've played just didn't have the room to set up all that gear.
thanks

I strongly recommend you consider The Duallist. Assuming you have good right foot control, you can do almost everything a double pedal can in less space and you won't have to re-train your left foot to do bass drum. You'll also be able to keep your left foot on the hi-hat and keep your right foot doing what it does best - the bass drum. The cost is comparable to a quality double pedal setup.

[PussyCat]

I've previously used a conventional double pedal for years and years, I have since switched to a Duallist, superb stuff. I can do everything that I could do with a double and still have controlled hihats. Superb. So impressed i accepted a proposed Duallist endorsment.

[beatsMcGee]

one of the cons ive seen with people with double bass pedals is that they conpensate for one week foot with two medicore feet.... ie... take one pedal away and they really dont have much going on... bring the double back and they sound decient again... just make sure you practice doubles with both feet so that if you take one pedal away you can continue to kick ass... ya dig

[dizkneelande]

well unless your playing speed metal you should be able to do everything on one foot.
assuming you practice ya know

[PussyCat]

well unless your playing speed metal you should be able to do everything on one foot.
assuming you practice ya know

Unlike the name suggests, speed metal is not particulary fast paced.

[Neurotica]

Double bass makes music "richer". Even if its not speed metal.
Definitely - double bass is better for me.

[Bttl]

I cant say i am a double pedal fan but if thats what you are looking for and more importnantly what you need in your music style then go for it.

I cant explain how much i think Dualist pedals should be banned and removed from the face of drumming. The whole concept makes me wanna smash things. There are people that learn double bass or fast single pedal work only to have these Dualist 'pedals' (they dont deserve to be called pedals) making light work of hours upon hours of peoples training.

Pathetic!

[Deathmetalconga]

I cant say i am a double pedal fan but if thats what you are looking for and more importnantly what you need in your music style then go for it.

I cant explain how much i think Dualist pedals should be banned and removed from the face of drumming. The whole concept makes me wanna smash things. There are people that learn double bass or fast single pedal work only to have these Dualist 'pedals' (they dont deserve to be called pedals) making light work of hours upon hours of peoples training.

Pathetic!

There are plenty of threads where you can bash on Duallist pedals, or where I can bash on how obsolete, inefficient and clumsy double pedals are. Let's take this discussion to one of those threads, shall we?

[phillip latimer]

thanks everyone i'm thinking about trying the double petal . it has realy helped to have
your advice so again thanks and keep rocking

[finnhiggins]

I'd like to dispute some of these Pros and add some cons, just as a word of warning...

Double bass is really common now-a-days.

Pros
1. Lots of different techiniques that go with a wide variety
of music


Really? That's funny, because 99.9% of the time I hear double bass it's the same stuff and it seems rather unneccesary and uninspired. You get the odd guy like Thomas Haake who actually uses it to phrase interestingly against other stuff, but about 60% of the time it just gets used to do that little 16th note triplet before a cymbal crash lick, quads and some occasional bursts of 16th notes underneath cymbal rolls, and the other 39.9% is just constant 16ths at a much higher speed with less interesting stuff over the top.

About the only styles where I've heard double pedal actually sound appropriate are metal-derived ones. It sort of works in fusion too, but that's only because fusion is all about showing off and most double-pedal players are all about showing off too.


2. can get some serious speed


See last point above.


3. over all very nice ;)


That's not a Pro, you're cheating!


Cons
1. double bass can be expensive.
2. takes alot of practrice


2. should probably read "Takes a lot of practice to even play uninspired stuff in a competent manner, takes a stupendous amount of practice to do anything interesting".

3. Doesn't add much to the majority of musical styles.

4. The practice time you spend on double pedal could be used practicing any number of more applicable and original material.

5. Affects your setup because you suddenly need more space around the hi-hat stand for the pedal.

6. Makes you start buying stuff like drop-clutches, extra pairs of hi-hats and so forth just so you can have a crisp ride surface.

7. If you don't have any original ideas for what to do with it now then you probably won't after you've bought one and done all the practice.

Ok, so I'm obviously not a fan. But like every other teenage drummer I bought a double pedal at one stage in the game. I learned the "constant 16ths under cheesy grooves" thing, the "16th note triplets leading into a hit" thing, the "huge meltdown ending with quads and fast double kick under the cymbals" thing and all the other standards. Then I realised something: Stuff with heaps of double bass very rarely has even *as much* energy as stuff with the bass drum more widely spaced out. And when it does it's usually from a player who can generate that kind of intensity with a single pedal anyway.

I discovered I was spending all this time working on double kick when actually it was adding less than zero to the quality of my playing. So now the double pedal is just used as a pedal on my practice pad kit, I've not used it live in something like 3.5 years. I just wish I'd realised that before spending the money on the damn thing, they're not cheap.

[radiofriendlyunitshifter]

^that's a post that will convince just about anyone not to buy a double pedal.

[geek_boy_in]

I cant explain how much i think Dualist pedals should be banned and removed from the face of drumming. The whole concept makes me wanna smash things. There are people that learn double bass or fast single pedal work only to have these Dualist 'pedals' (they dont deserve to be called pedals) making light work of hours upon hours of peoples training.

Pathetic!

are we more concerned about making music or having some weird acrobatic skills ?? this is a drummers forum not circus artists' ....... most music directors out there are least bothered about how you create the sound as long as you are GROOVING ..even if that takes to using readymade drum loops instead of actual people ...... period.

pardon me if I come accross too harsh ... but could not help after reading the myopic one sided comment ....

[hungrypo]

Really? That's funny, because 99.9% of the time I hear double bass it's the same stuff and it seems rather unneccesary and uninspired. You get the odd guy like Thomas Haake who actually uses it to phrase interestingly against other stuff, but about 60% of the time it just gets used to do that little 16th note triplet before a cymbal crash lick, quads and some occasional bursts of 16th notes underneath cymbal rolls, and the other 39.9% is just constant 16ths at a much higher speed with less interesting stuff over the top.

About the only styles where I've heard double pedal actually sound appropriate are metal-derived ones. It sort of works in fusion too, but that's only because fusion is all about showing off and most double-pedal players are all about showing off too.

i'd have to disagree with much of what you are saying and you're "stats". a double pedal is simply a tool that you can attach to your drum kit to allow you execute certain things that wouldn't be possible without it. there are those who use the pedal like you described, ie nothing but 16th note rolls under a groove n' such. but many players in many styles incorporate more than two pedals in their set-up simply because they are as co-ordinated with their feet as they are with their hands.

Thomas Lang has not only a double pedal, but extra pedals controlling hi-hats, jam blocks, and little "splash" hats that he uses to add texture and colour to his playing. ditto Benny Greb.

Terry Bozzio has something like 16 or so pedals attached to his monster kit, and he uses those to create ostinatos that he uses to solo over. and if you go on the vic firth site, you can see Akira Jimbo using not only a double pedal, but controlling his hit-hat at the same time.

Carter Beauford uses his double pedal execute little bass drum "fills" that follow Stefan Lessard's bass line fills. and he also uses it to build tension during the long jam out sections of DMB songs. and do i even have to mention Danney Carey? or Jojo Mayer?

using a double pedal, or any other pedal extentions to your drum kit is the next "step" in incorporating your feet into your playing. using your logic then you should only use 1 hand on the snare drum at a time. is using "double sticks" some sort of cheating or just a way to play 16th note rolls on the snare? well you could learn to do it with one hand. but using two is just that much more effiecient.

[Bernhard]

or Jojo Mayer?


Hmm Jojo is a bad sample, because he never used DB till now. He only sounds like he uses one..sometimes.
He just started three weeks ago - but not many have seen it till now.

Bernhard

[neilpscuz]

I waited 25 years before I started playin dbl bass. I have a very good and fast right foot, but there is no way I was gonna triplets at 120bpm (on bd) and play eighths on my ride. It all comes down to what you like. It has helped me with independance, and broadened my thoughts on fills.

[dizkneelande]

Double bass makes music "richer". Even if its not speed metal.
Definitely - double bass is better for me.

? I dont have a clue as to why. explain to me please

[dizkneelande]

i'd have to disagree with much of what you are saying and you're "stats". a double pedal is simply a tool that you can attach to your drum kit to allow you execute certain things that wouldn't be possible without it. there are those who use the pedal like you described, ie nothing but 16th note rolls under a groove n' such. but many players in many styles incorporate more than two pedals in their set-up simply because they are as co-ordinated with their feet as they are with their hands.

Thomas Lang has not only a double pedal, but extra pedals controlling hi-hats, jam blocks, and little "splash" hats that he uses to add texture and colour to his playing. ditto Benny Greb.

Terry Bozzio has something like 16 or so pedals attached to his monster kit, and he uses those to create ostinatos that he uses to solo over. and if you go on the vic firth site, you can see Akira Jimbo using not only a double pedal, but controlling his hit-hat at the same time.

Carter Beauford uses his double pedal execute little bass drum "fills" that follow Stefan Lessard's bass line fills. and he also uses it to build tension during the long jam out sections of DMB songs. and do i even have to mention Danney Carey? or Jojo Mayer?

using a double pedal, or any other pedal extentions to your drum kit is the next "step" in incorporating your feet into your playing. using your logic then you should only use 1 hand on the snare drum at a time. is using "double sticks" some sort of cheating or just a way to play 16th note rolls on the snare? well you could learn to do it with one hand. but using two is just that much more effiecient.


where's the fun in using two feet? i mean i use double pedals when my bassman asks me to but that's the only time i will.

[dizkneelande]

I'd like to dispute some of these Pros and add some cons, just as a word of warning...



Really? That's funny, because 99.9% of the time I hear double bass it's the same stuff and it seems rather unneccesary and uninspired. You get the odd guy like Thomas Haake who actually uses it to phrase interestingly against other stuff, but about 60% of the time it just gets used to do that little 16th note triplet before a cymbal crash lick, quads and some occasional bursts of 16th notes underneath cymbal rolls, and the other 39.9% is just constant 16ths at a much higher speed with less interesting stuff over the top.

About the only styles where I've heard double pedal actually sound appropriate are metal-derived ones. It sort of works in fusion too, but that's only because fusion is all about showing off and most double-pedal players are all about showing off too.



See last point above.



That's not a Pro, you're cheating!



2. should probably read "Takes a lot of practice to even play uninspired stuff in a competent manner, takes a stupendous amount of practice to do anything interesting".

3. Doesn't add much to the majority of musical styles.

4. The practice time you spend on double pedal could be used practicing any number of more applicable and original material.

5. Affects your setup because you suddenly need more space around the hi-hat stand for the pedal.

6. Makes you start buying stuff like drop-clutches, extra pairs of hi-hats and so forth just so you can have a crisp ride surface.

7. If you don't have any original ideas for what to do with it now then you probably won't after you've bought one and done all the practice.

Ok, so I'm obviously not a fan. But like every other teenage drummer I bought a double pedal at one stage in the game. I learned the "constant 16ths under cheesy grooves" thing, the "16th note triplets leading into a hit" thing, the "huge meltdown ending with quads and fast double kick under the cymbals" thing and all the other standards. Then I realised something: Stuff with heaps of double bass very rarely has even *as much* energy as stuff with the bass drum more widely spaced out. And when it does it's usually from a player who can generate that kind of intensity with a single pedal anyway.

I discovered I was spending all this time working on double kick when actually it was adding less than zero to the quality of my playing. So now the double pedal is just used as a pedal on my practice pad kit, I've not used it live in something like 3.5 years. I just wish I'd realised that before spending the money on the damn thing, they're not cheap.


great points finn I agree wholeheartedly

[Drifter in the Dark]

My favorite double bass players have always been those who don't use their double pedal all the time. (Kind of ironic when you think about it). Carter Beauford and Tim Alexander ("John the Fisherman", anyone?) are the two best examples I can think of. But whatever you do, do it with taste and it will sound good. You can sound just as good or bad with a single pedal as you can with a double. It's all in how you use your tools.

[PussyCat]

I cant say i am a double pedal fan but if thats what you are looking for and more importnantly what you need in your music style then go for it.

I cant explain how much i think Dualist pedals should be banned and removed from the face of drumming. The whole concept makes me wanna smash things. There are people that learn double bass or fast single pedal work only to have these Dualist 'pedals' (they dont deserve to be called pedals) making light work of hours upon hours of peoples training.

Pathetic!

Well dude, i spent 12 years playing double pedal death/thrash metal in a variety of bands, I now have a duallist triple pedal, (left pedal linked to a slave beater as a normal conventional double pedal works) which means I can play single footed doubles OR standard conventional double pedal style, i switch between the two depending on what is required/what feels best/what polyrhythms sound best from the musical situation.

So congratulations on not knowing what the hell you are talking about. And that is from someone with just over 12 years of non-stop death/thrash metal double pedal playing.

[Fur drummer]

I would like to know the pros and cons of the double bass . I've tryed it once or twise but
not realy enough to say I know anything about how to use them.anthore problem is space
most of the places i've played just didn't have the room to set up all that gear.
thanks
Are you talking about having two base drums or playing with a double pedal?

My kit has two base drums and I love it. I can tune one just a little lower, (not alot lower), than the other and get a nice sound from them. I just like the look of a kit with two base drums.

Yes space can be a problem and you have to haul around an extra drum but it is worth it to me.

Double pedal is nice because you only need one base drum but I didn't like it. It just felt strange to me.

[foursticks]

Meh, I can't say it's really appealed to me that much, I always wanted feet the speed of Bonzo's (sorry for bringing him up), so I stuck with one pedal and have been working on my doubles, general bass drum speed, both heel-down and up, ect. It's ultimatly your desicion, but my advice is that if you get you don't all of a sudden focus on just two feet at a time. Learn to get both feet working evenly and as fast as each other, like beatsMcgee said.

[grahamo87]

I've been playing double for not very long, but I've been practicing non stop on them. I saw someone suggest doing hand rudiments with your feet. Thats definately a good idea and thats what I did. IT works pretty well. And double kick can be in ANY genre....any genre with a drumset involved anyway. Its not so hot in digitally processed trance music probably...

[theduke86]

I used to own one and learned all the Tool licks and whatnot back when I was 14-15. Double pedal really doesn't have all that much musical application- except for metal or prog rock, or possibly fusion. Not very many players do interesting things with it. Most of the common things that are done with a double pedal can be done with a single pedal and a little bit of woodshedding, ie RLFF RLRLFF RLRLRLFF fills, etc. Exception being those big strings of crossover cymbals BD licks.
99.9999% of things you can do musicially can be done with the single pedal. But if you play those sort of styles that makes a double pedal necessary, then by all means, buy one. If you feel you want it and you don't play this styles, get good at a single pedal first, then buy a double pedal after.
One other thing you may want to consider- you lose control of the hihat pedal as well, which does limit your options.
I guess it's not for me, but if you're digging the sounds, go for it.
And those dualist pedals are terrible, they spit in the face of everyone who's developed a good right foot. Hard to get the strokes even, as well. Just my opinion.

[grahamo87]

thanks for reminding me what i left out of my post.

duallist pedals suck

[dasilvs]

i am with pussycat and deathmetalconga, if youre looking to save space and maintain your current setup but with double bass sound, get the duallist. i just got my double bass electric pad for my electric set for the duallist and cannot wait to finally try it out on an electric kit...

but boy, the thread for the duallist was a sore convo, if you want to go searching for it...

so don't listen to these fools, its all about personal choice and taste. like someone once said about the "duallist debate" is that without advances in drums like the kick pedal or high hat, your feet would never be used...to someone whos never used their feet how would that look to them? like cheating?

all about personal choice, not about cutting corners....

so back to the ORIGINAL question, i would say test the waters, try some different things out and see where you fit in. if double pedal and two bass drums just doesnt feel right at the moment, don't force it. when youre ready, you'll know and go for it.

good luck.

[emmerson]

only get double bass if you NEED it honestly its better to figure out a way to get it with a single pedal cause that builds your technique qith one pedal ... if ound i started to depend on a double pedal and thats not good

[MSUMetal]

so back to the ORIGINAL question, i would say test the waters, try some different things out and see where you fit in. if double pedal and two bass drums just doesnt feel right at the moment, don't force it. when youre ready, you'll know and go for it.

I think this sums it up and is worded better than anyone elses answer. I couldn't agree more.

[toteman2]

99.9999% of things you can do musicially can be done with the single pedal.

Ouch...That is pretty far from the truth. People like Virgil, Lang, and Grant Collins are showing that you can treat your feet the same as your hands.

They play very intense rudiments with their feet and use them in musical context. You can't play a double stroke roll, flams, or paradiddle combinations, etc using just a single pedal.

These are they types of things the evolution of the instrument have have taken us to. So to say 99.9% of things you can do musically can be done with a single pedal, is pretty misleading by todays standards.

[grahamo87]

Ouch...That is pretty far from the truth. People like Virgil, Lang, and Grant Collins are showing that you can treat your feet the same as your hands.

They play very intense rudiments with their feet and use them in musical context. You can't play a double stroke roll, flams, or paradiddle combinations, etc using just a single pedal.

These are they types of things the evolution of the instrument have have taken us to. So to say 99.9% of things you can do musically can be done with a single pedal, is pretty misleading by todays standards.

I definately agree with that. Thomas Lang is amazing with his feet and would like to see the best single pedaller do 99.9999% of the things he does

[finnhiggins]

And double kick can be in ANY genre....any genre with a drumset involved anyway.

But how many does it actually add anything to? Rock, sometimes. Metal, usually. Prog, yup. Other stuff...? I can't think of many folk, latin (not fusion-with-some-latin), contemporary (hip-hop/r&b/dance/d&b), blues, jazz, singer-songwriter/soft-rock, pop etc contexts where double pedal adds anything to grooves at all.

The big realisation for me about double pedal came after I got a drum machine / sequencer and started programming a lot of grooves. All of a sudden I had the ability to write all these grooves with syncopated 32nds and god knows what else that would take me years of practice to get to the stage where I could play - and which I was putting in the practice towards, optimistically thinking that the facility would be helpful once I had it.

So I started programming grooves like that. Most drummers do this a bit when they get a sequencer - start programming stuff they can't play. What did I discover? It all sounds like arse! Really. If you have a completely technically-agnostic environment then from a purely musical perspective double-kick stuff doesn't actually sound any good. That's why all the programmed stuff you're hearing out there in hip-hop, dance music etc isn't using it.

The bass drum has a particular role in most grooves - it's an anchor, something that people can lock into when they're dancing. The snare can syncopate around it more, but if you move the bass drum then you dramatically change the feel - see reggae with the "drop" on the three instead of anchoring the one, or latin styles where you have a lot of bass drum syncopation off the start of the bar.

When it comes to bass drum from a purely musical perspective I don't understand this whole "more is better" philosophy. 90% of the time you can make a groove better by just keeping the bass drum to define the "shape" and then working around that.

This, of course, doesn't completely apply in metal. Metal is often all about very aggressive tutti sections with as many instruments doubling a very sharp, syncopated rhythm as possible. So being able to do this with the bass drum can help. But in other styles which aren't about pure aggression? The only things I hear people using double kick for there are things where an 18" tom could often be substituted - little bursts of stuff into a cymbal crash, or another voice in a tom fill or something. The reality is that for the vast majority of this stuff you can - as TheDuke86 said - just re-orchestrate it into hand-foot combinations with a single pedal and train your right foot up.

I've got nothing against the idea of using your feet to play more voices, ala Terry Bozzio, Grant Collins or Thomas Lang. That's just sensible. But why would you need more bass drum? Most of the time more bass drum just muddles up the low end and makes the rhythm section sound less tight and cohesive. Unless you actually have a musical answer to why you'd need more of a particular instrument I don't see the sense in spending a lot of time and money on being able to play more bass drum.

[finnhiggins]

I definately agree with that. Thomas Lang is amazing with his feet and would like to see the best single pedaller do 99.9999% of the things he does

He doesn't do that stuff in songs though, does he? Most of the work he does where he actually gets paid to play music has much more sparse bass drum work.

Ditto for Collins, Donati etc. While they might have found some new *technical* possibilities with the feet... go look at a marching band playing any style of music. Do they have the bass drummers playing flam-paradiddles with dynamics in 32nd notes, or are they holding down a more simple pattern? Why is this? Clearly since they're just playing bass drum they could do more if they wanted...

The reason is that most of the time having some guy thrashing away at a bass drum in dense subdivisions doesn't actually sound any good musically, so very few people other than drummers could ever imagine a need for it. And I suspect that most of the drummers who do see a need for it are getting back to OzJazzer's quote over in the jazz thread:


I know many musicians who love their instrument more than they actually like music. This I think applies to many drummers in particular.


It's cool to feel a sense of satisfaction and achievement *technically* in being able to play a flam-ratamacue-diddle-arama with your feet. But what does it actually do for music that composers for larger percussion sections haven't been deliberately discarding as useless for decades?

[toteman2]

go look at a marching band playing any style of music. Do they have the bass drummers playing flam-paradiddles with dynamics in 32nd notes, or are they holding down a more simple pattern? Why is this? Clearly since they're just playing bass drum they could do more if they wanted...

Actualy, a great deal of the time they do crazy insane runs between them in many different note values, and using many differnet rudiments. Other times they tend to keep it simple when the music calls for it.

[finnhiggins]

Actualy, a great deal of the time they do crazy insane runs between them in many different note values, and using many differnet rudiments. Other times they tend to keep it simple when the music calls for it.

I'm not necessarily talking about the American ultra-technical approach to marching percussion where stick tricks and speed are as important as the result. I was thinking more of the kind of marching bands that are actually specifically about playing a style of music, rather than competing for prizes.

I'm talking more about the stuff you'd see in South America, or in the Balkans and so forth. Sure, in the world of competitive marching percussion where you're judged on difficulty and flash it's not unreasonable to expect that the technically difficult stuff would float to the surface again. But when it comes to stuff that actually *grooves* it's almost inversely proportional - the more depth and feel a groove has the less the bass drum is doing. Obviously that doesn't apply all the way down to nothing where the bass drum is detracting from the groove whenever it is used, but for me it's certainly the ultimate "less is more" instrument the vast majority of the time.

Would the Purdie Shuffle be better if it had 16th note triplets on the bass drum under it? Would "When the levee breaks" be improved as a groove by playing it as an accent pattern on constant 32nd notes? Probably not. Could you improve your playing of either of them by working on your dynamics with your right foot, your tone with your left hand, your ability to play clean patterns with subtle changes to the pressure on the hi-hat? Almost certainly. So why the emphasis with drummers on double pedals and foot speed/control when so few people have mastered those basic elements of three-way co-ordination with a single pedal? I don't see it actually adds anything musically that the same amount of work on almost anything else wouldn't trump easily.

[toteman2]

I'm not necessarily talking about the American ultra-technical approach to marching percussion where stick tricks and speed are as important as the result. I was thinking more of the kind of marching bands that are actually specifically about playing a style of music, rather than competing for prizes.

I'm talking more about the stuff you'd see in South America, or in the Balkans and so forth. Sure, in the world of competitive marching percussion where you're judged on difficulty and flash it's not unreasonable to expect that the technically difficult stuff would float to the surface again. But when it comes to stuff that actually *grooves* it's almost inversely proportional - the more depth and feel a groove has the less the bass drum is doing. Obviously that doesn't apply all the way down to nothing where the bass drum is detracting from the groove whenever it is used, but for me it's certainly the ultimate "less is more" instrument the vast majority of the time.

Would the Purdie Shuffle be better if it had 16th note triplets on the bass drum under it? Would "When the levee breaks" be improved as a groove by playing it as an accent pattern on constant 32nd notes? Probably not. Could you improve your playing of either of them by working on your dynamics with your right foot, your tone with your left hand, your ability to play clean patterns with subtle changes to the pressure on the hi-hat? Almost certainly. So why the emphasis with drummers on double pedals and foot speed/control when so few people have mastered those basic elements of three-way co-ordination with a single pedal? I don't see it actually adds anything musically that the same amount of work on almost anything else wouldn't trump easily.


I agree with every word 100%...

I remeber this subject came up a while ago on a different thread. All I'm pointing out is that there are musical possibilities that can be obtained with a double pedal, that can't be obtained with a single pedal. Weather or not is sounds good is subjective.

As always Finn---Excellent insight.

[Fur drummer]

Ok I think we can all agree that double bass doesn't work in some kinds of music. It sounds good in speed metal but not good in poka, unless of course you are playing speed metal poka.

I'm a two base drum player. I use my right BD the most with my left foot on the hi-hat pedal. I use both BDs together for fills or solos. Soloing is where I find double bass the most useful. Yea I can do doubles and triplets on a single pedal but I like double better. It is really just a matter of taste and what works better for me.

[Cephalic]

I've aways seen the double pedal as a useful tool. Of course, I play metal most of the time. When I played with the school jazz band, there was never a need for it. When I just practice at home with different genres, I rarely use it. Sometimes when I play with a more funkish feel I'll use it for some fills. Three on the hands, three on the feet. It doesn't ever seem to fit too well playing that real fast though, so most of the time I could be playing the three on the bass with one foot.

[gusty]

dont like double pedal or double bass, to me its cheating, cause especially if you're playing punk/metal or watever, you can go really fast really easy, wat would be an accoplishment would be to go really fast with one foot.

thats just me though

[<<L3o Luk@?>>]

hmm....
i've got three bass drums, so i have both :-P
2x dw 5000 single pedal
1x pearl P-101P double pedal

[brittc89]

dont like double pedal or double bass, to me its cheating, cause especially if you're playing punk/metal or watever, you can go really fast really easy, wat would be an accoplishment would be to go really fast with one foot.

thats just me though

Ive said this before though, and I dont even play double bass. You can work so hard and so long to be able to do everything except flamming with a single stick, but why would you? If we scoff at innovation we will never have technical progression within the drumset.

[DWfan20005]

Ive said this before though, and I dont even play double bass. You can work so hard and so long to be able to do everything except flamming with a single stick, but why would you? If we scoff at innovation we will never have technical progression within the drumset.

Could anybody have said that any better, I think not.

[Skynman]

Most of the time a double pedal is not needed BUT there are times it is! I can roll pretty fast on a single pedal but not as fast as I could with a double pedal! A double pedal to me is just like playing two bass drums but you only have one! I also disagree with being taught to play traditional grip instead of match grip! I wished back in school I had learned on double bass drum and had been taught match grip it would have saved me from learning it later and retraining my grip!

[spartacus1989]

I either use heel to toe, or rely on rebound from the bass drum. but when I feel lazy i reach for the double pedal.

[Benjaminbois]

Ive been playing for a little over a year now and ive decided on getting a double bass pedal.
I put of getting one to begin with so i wouldnt be tempted to use double bass in places where with a bit of practice it could be rolled off with a single. I am far more impressed with really good use of a single pedal but I think that double bass is just another skill that one can master.
I personally dont think its a matter of being ready skill-wise, its your philosophy and self discipline that has to be right.

[Bossa Nova]

If your name is "Latin Groover" I would advise against the double bass.

[Mr. Pasquini]

dont like double pedal or double bass, to me its cheating, cause especially if you're playing punk/metal or watever, you can go really fast really easy, wat would be an accoplishment would be to go really fast with one foot.

thats just me though

You have to realize people like Tim Waterson who do their best to have all the speed they can on the bass drum are as fast as it is realistically possible to be. Each foot is about to it's human limit. It's not like really fast double bass players don't work on single, it's SO important to have each foot fast individually.

[Tim Waterson]

You have to realize people like Tim Waterson who do their best to have all the speed they can on the bass drum are as fast as it is realistically possible to be. Each foot is about to it's human limit. It's not like really fast double bass players don't work on single, it's SO important to have each foot fast individually.

If you are a DRUMMER you can play with or without a double pedal.
I always try to play as much as I can with one foot as long as I dont loose the GROOVE...
PS my right foot is much faster than 1/2 of both feet.........LOL
Tim

[Mr. Pasquini]

If you are a DRUMMER you can play with or without a double pedal.
I always try to play as much as I can with one foot as long as I dont loose the GROOVE...
PS my right foot is much faster than 1/2 of both feet.........LOL
Tim
I use my single pedal a ton more than my double.

You're killer man. I'm trying to work on double bass groove but it always seems as though double bass really becomes too much of a focus. I guess it's just a constant struggle.

As a side note, what's your left foot 10 second speed?

[GetAgrippa]

I have always played single pedal-bass. Last birthday my wife bought me a double pedal. I mastered it in about two days. I really enjoy the double but it does fill like your fudging. However you can really enhance and muffle with the left pedal. I have my left pedal beside my hi-hat pedal so I often will play the hi-hat with my toes and the left bass with my heal. There is definitely a time and place for its use and going crazy with it can be too busy. The first two weeks I thought about taking it off and going back to single, but then I decided that it is a useful tool just don't go crazy.

[Latin Groover]

I mastered it in about two days.
Didn't we all. .

[GetAgrippa]

I guess saying I picked up double bass in two days is bragging, but after playing 42 years it just seemed pretty natural and fun. But then again, I have lost all the hearing in one ear (I had a tumor in my ear) and the other is weakening so I maybe fooling myself. My wife fusses that I only have one good ear and the drums will kill my other. So be it!!!! I can't quit-major withdrawal when I don't play and a pad don't cut it. I guess I should add that playing 42 years doesn't mean I any good either.

[slingerland755]

I have always played single pedal-bass. Last birthday my wife bought me a double pedal. I mastered it in about two days. I really enjoy the double but it does fill like your fudging. However you can really enhance and muffle with the left pedal. I have my left pedal beside my hi-hat pedal so I often will play the hi-hat with my toes and the left bass with my heal. There is definitely a time and place for its use and going crazy with it can be too busy. The first two weeks I thought about taking it off and going back to single, but then I decided that it is a useful tool just don't go crazy.

GetAgrippa,
Get a grip! Come on dude, we don't buy into that kind of talk around here. If you honestly think you mastered your double pedal (in 2 days or ever), then what do you need to discuss with us?

[GetAgrippa]

Yeah, "Master" was definitely a poor word choice. I should have stated in two days I was proficient, well O.K., adequate. I have delusions of adequacy at times. Forgive me. My point was the double is not for every song, but it does have its advantages. See I do have an apt moniker. GetAgrippa!!!!Clever pun and descriptive-get a grip of my stick (that could have a double meaning. hee, hee) and brain. The more I think it has almost been a year since my last birthday so the two days maybe an exaggeration or time warp. Dang I'm losing it. Getting like Ozzie!!!!

[mitchjames50]

i dont think anyone HAS to play dbl bass pedal
i mean it depends if thats the skill u want in ur asenal
u neva know if u need to call on those skills
but also i think u need to 'master' (to a decent level lol) the single first
i rekon its important to be able to play single really well b4 getting the dbl pedal.
thats wat i say to all my mates
im not claiming to b an expert, this is just my opinion

so really the answer to the question- too double bass or not to double bass
really is- if u want that skill or not

[slingerland755]

Yeah, "Master" was definitely a poor word choice. I should have stated in two days I was proficient, well O.K., adequate. I have delusions of adequacy at times. Forgive me. My point was the double is not for every song, but it does have its advantages. See I do have an apt moniker. GetAgrippa!!!!Clever pun and descriptive-get a grip of my stick (that could have a double meaning. hee, hee) and brain. The more I think it has almost been a year since my last birthday so the two days maybe an exaggeration or time warp. Dang I'm losing it. Getting like Ozzie!!!!

Right on,
I hear you. Have you seen Simon Phillips double bass video in the drum cliinic section (http://www.drummerworld.com/Videos/simonphillipsparabass.html)? Great exercise!

[GetAgrippa]

Thanks slinger for the slap into reality and the Simon Phillips video (the link didn't work but I found it). Phillips is an awesome drummer. I like his mentality and approach towards the drums-very methodical. He looks so balanced with both feet. My right foot is so much stronger than my left and it tends to dominate. I have been practicing left foot alone trying to build it up. My left foot and ankle are stiff also from old injuries. This is an awesome site and I love the videos. I am so impressed with the vast numbers of excellent drummers of all different ages. These granddads still got chops, and some of these kids younger than 12 just blow me away.