Bass drum dimensions - effect on sound

[maskedwarrior]

Hi,
I'm still new here - second post. Really enjoying the forum.

I'm curious about how bass drum dimensions effect bass sound.

What different properties does a very long and narrow bass drum have in comparison to a very shallow and wide bass drum? eg. two extremes, 26" depth x 16 dia VS 16" depth x 26 diameter??

I haven't had an opportunity to play both kinds so your feedback would really interest me.

Thanks,
Tony

[GRUNTERSDAD]

If I am correct the diameter has more to do with the tone or note of the drum and the depth will have more to do with the sustain. Correct me if I am wrong please. There is also some variable in the equation as to how much air is being moved which will affect the volume.

This from the Drum Tuning Bible:
These are the Essential Concepts:

1. The interval between drums is more important than many realize and the size of both the diameter and the depth are key to getting even resonance and the desired incremental notes between drums. Diameter determines the note of the drum, depth influences articulation and resonance. See "Shell Depth versus Diameter"



The shell depth while having a small impact on the warmth or resonance of the drum has a greater impact on volume and articulation. The diameter has a far greater impact on creating lower pitch. Greater depth increases volume or power by having an impact on resonance of the fundamental note of the shell. A shallower shell creates a shorter burst of tone and makes a drum more articulate by virtue of the fact that the quantity of surface area of the parent material (i.e. the shell) is lessened and therefore cannot resonate as much as large surface area. Less distance between heads means the opposite head (i.e. Resonant head) reacts quicker, or gets excited faster when striking the batter head, it responds better to softer playing. For instance, a 22” diameter kick drum of 16” in depth has a shell area of approximately 6,080 square inches. A 22” diameter kick drum of 18” in depth has a shell area of approximately 6,840 square inches, or a 12.5% increase in area to resonate. Take that same thought to a 10” tom with a 9” depth. This results in a shell area of approximately 706 square inches versus one with an 11” depth, which results in a shell area of 863 sq. in. That 2” increase in depth is now a 22% gain. The deeper the shell, the more likely they are to produce a deeper or warmer sound because of resonance ability, but this should not be confused with a low tuning.



As for diameter, you have to think about your approach to tuning and overall sound desired. This further explained in the section Interval, Sequences and Concepts

[Drumsword]

I used to use a pair of 22" diameter by 30" deep bass drums, they had a punch of a 22" drum but also had the low end of a cannon without a lot of ring or overtone, (I had a 6" hole cut in each reso head). Pics on here somewhere.

[caddywumpus]

The more shallow a kick drum is, the more punchy, tonal, and focused it will sound. The deeper it is, the more echoey and less focused it will sound. It's also harder to get a tight funk sound with a deeper drum.

[Deathmetalconga]

The more shallow a kick drum is, the more punchy, tonal, and focused it will sound. The deeper it is, the more echoey and less focused it will sound. It's also harder to get a tight funk sound with a deeper drum.

That's true only if other factors stay constant - shell material, shell thickness, heads, tuning, beater type and throw, etc.

A deeper drum will actually have more punch because you are moving a greater volume of air. A shallower drum will have a thinner, shallower tone. However, you are also getting a lot more tones out of a deeper drum, so the fundamental tone will not be as prominent. You can control the richness of tones and unwanted echoes with thicker heads, thus giving the drum more chomp, which is a combination of punch and bite. A thicker shell will reduce overtones and focus the sound more.

Some people stuff towels and blankets into their drums but I would never do that.

[caddywumpus]

That's true only if other factors stay constant - shell material, shell thickness, heads, tuning, beater type and throw, etc.

A deeper drum will actually have more punch because you are moving a greater volume of air.

"That's only true..." -Yeah, that's a given.

"A deeper drum..." -I disagree. The "punch" has to do with the response of the resonant head in relationship to the batter head. The closer they are, the sooner the resonant head will respond, and the more pronounced the "punch" will be. Maybe we have different definitions of the word "punch"...???

[ericmiles]

You can control the richness of tones and unwanted echoes with thicker heads, thus giving the drum more chomp, which is a combination of punch and bite. .

This is a beautiful sentence. It simultaneously illustrates how challenging it is to describe tone with words, and also shows your passion for sound.

. . . like a fine wine.

cheers,
eric

[drumtechdad]

The younger guys may be interested to know that much shallower depths were standard until only relatively recently. 16" and even 14" deep bass drums were the norm.

The rule of thumb was (bearing in mind the "all things being equal" advice above) that the larger diameter the drum the shallower it should be. That is because, all things being equal, the larger diameter drum does lose punch and impact if too deep. A too-deep large-diameter bass drum can feel soggy and slow, too.

The "standard" 22" diameter bass drums routinely came in a 16" depth, whereas 18" is the norm today.

Frankly, I wish my 22x18 were a 22x16; I think 18" is simply too deep. And larger than 18" deep is pretty much for looks, not sound. Lot of guys using super-deep kicks are triggering them.

It's worth remembering--and perhaps reconsidering--that for the most part Bonham used very large diameter, quite shallow bass drums with no port in the reso head and felt strips for muffling--and it sounded like thunder.

[maskedwarrior]

hi i just wanted to thank everyone for their feedback. I couldn't turn up any info on this issue and it's so nice to have your feedback.
Time has flown since i last wrote and I'm now in a position where i can buy some drums!! :)

I think i'm going to get a 20" Dia bass drum because I like the look of them :). They're tidier and they're easier to travel with being slightly smaller. It might be lame but that's my reasoning.

Does anyone have any suggestions on a good depth to make a 20" dia BD a good allrounder???

I found drumtechdad's post interesting because it suggested that a a wider BD needs to be shallower to maintain a punchy tone. So smaller diameter BDs can afford to be deeper?

I think it must come down to personal opinion but I do have this example: Tannoy 5.5" studio monitors are ridulously deep in order to give some bass end to such a small speaker cone. Common sense dictates that longer means more low end.

I also reason in my head that,
1: if you have a wide and shallow drum (eg. 24x14) the depth of tone is coming directly from the skin - the large surface area of the skin is reverberating slowly giving low tone. And because the drum is shallow it 'shapes' the sound much less than a deeper drum and you also hear that 'punch' as the beater hits the skin very clearly. So probably the high and low ends are quite extreme - the low 'boom' from the big head and the high 'slap' of the beater - and the overall sound is relatively natural.

2: In a long narrow drum (eg. 20x18) the head is vibrating at a faster rate and the tone is being dropped by the physical dimensions of the drum shell - the deep shell stretching out the sound waves so they leave the drum lower in tone than they started.
I imagine this gives a very powerful thump, probably more powerful than in case 1 because the sound is being 'shaped' and amplified by the dimensions of the drum shell. But i imagine you loose that high-end dynamic you get with case 1.

So anyway, nuff o' that!
What depth 20" diameter bass drum do you think i should get for best allround capability??
Thanks,
Tony

[KarlCrafton]

And larger than 18" deep is pretty much for looks, not sound. Lot of guys using super-deep kicks are triggering them.

It's worth remembering--and perhaps reconsidering--that for the most part Bonham used very large diameter, quite shallow bass drums with no port in the reso head and felt strips for muffling--and it sounded like thunder.

I use a 20x26" bass drum.

I have no need of triggering.

I also have 16,18, & 20 depths in the 26.

Of the 3, I prefer the sound of the 20" depth, but I don't dispute that it does look cool to me, but I also like how shorter bass drums look too.

That is not however the reason I like the 20" depth best out of the 3.

I like it best because the way I tune the drum and muffle the drum, I get maximum punch, & maximum tone, with a great balance of both attack and overall shell tone.

The drum also sounds great played softly too.

My 6 year old has been able to get a nice sound out of it for a couple years now, and he hasn't "slammed" on it to get a sound at all.

I don't feel that I have to "work" any harder to do what I want on this drum...maybe I am "just used to it"....but, I play the same on smaller bass drums, and the most difference I hear (other than the obvious "tone" difference) is a slightly longer note on the bigger drum.
Yeah, a bigger drum is "louder" but I'm talking in the overall sound.

The 16" depth is maybe a bit "quicker", resulting in a 'shorter' overall tone, but it can sound like a "ringier" drum because the heads are closer and reacting more to each other.

The 18" depth has more impact feel under my foot, as in, I feel the "ooom" under the pedal more, but it's not a "ooom" that creates any problem in terms of recording or live mic'ing.

This size has great punch/attack, & tone as well.

By my tuning and muffling method, I get NO excess "ring"--the "note" of the drum is longer than a 14 or 16" depth, but it has NOT been an "impediment" in getting a great sound (quickly) live in any size venue, or for recording.

It's "big note" has not even been brought up by any sound person (as in "it's ringing too much") --not once, and I don't think I've been "lucky", because there's have been some "gems" of sound guy's over the years, you people know the ones I mean too!!

In general, most people would find that playing on a 22" bass drum is "easier" & would feel quicker, but even with a real open tuning and minimal dampening, the "sound" is obviously not ever the same--even though I have been able to get a cool, huge sound out of a 16x22.

(Not to debate drumtechdad, but....)
Bonham played a "shallow" bass drum because at that time there just was no other depth size available....who knows what size he'd be playing if he were still alive (but whatever it was, it'd sound great).

Carmine Appice (who got Bonham his Ludwig deal) ordered 15" deep bass drums on his 26's, and that was considered a real deep drum back then.

Then the 16's were "power" drums......then Alex Van Halen started putting 2 bass drums together and threw everything out the window haha!

Using Bonham is usually the example of a 26" drum user, and for good reason, his kick sound was great.
But there wasn't any size other than 14" depth available then, and some companies today only offer a 14" or 16" depth on a 26.

Someone saying a shallow drum is "better" on larger diameter drums is just selling the possibilities of other viable depth sizes short IMO.

I'm not saying anyone "here" is saying that, just if anyone say's "shallow is better", that's not taking all possibilities and viable sound options into consideration (disclaimer ended haha!).

Would a 20x26 or 20x24 or 22 be a good choice for a "Jazz" setting?

Not "normally" but in a situation where someone could really push the envelope, it could work, it just won't sound like what people are used too...and might sound like crap...or not, maybe someone should try it...26 and 28" BD's were used way back when--they were just shallow shells.

Is a big long BD the best choice for a quiet group or a combo, heck no, & there's a reason standard sizes are "standards" in different types of music--they work easily and sound good.

That said, I have been playing large 26 & 28" bass drums for over 19 years (exclusively) because of the sound, and not once in that time has the size of the drum been an impediment in any situation I've been involved in--which have not all been "rock" applications.

The 28" bass drum worked really well in a small country group I used it in where I just had a snare and bass drum (it was a 16x28--I also have a 20x28).

A 28" bass drum was the size drummers used way back in the 20's and 30's too.

The closer the heads are together, the quicker the front head will react.
That is the established fact.

If that is more desirable for the ultimate sound of the bass drum, then someone should use that in deciding on a bass drum size.

In the (6) bass drums I own, all things being equal, the deeper the drum, the feel of the batter head was pretty much the same (since you can't tension exactly the same on every drum--never happens), but the length of the note the drum produces is longer.

This can be "good" or not, depending on what someone wants, but you can use varying muffling techniques to get less resonance or a shorter note in a deeper drum, but you can't get a longer tone out of a shorter shell without getting into undesireable overtones that will make for problems in live and recording situations.

If I were picking a smaller drum diameter size with a longer depth, using what I know about the 26 and 28's, I'd say, for a "big" sound, I could easily choose an 18x22, possibly a 20x22 (depending on shell material), an18x24, and 20x24 sizes.

I've felt that on a 22" drum, getting into a 20" or longer length the 22 starts to get a "thinner" overall sound, and not a full balanced sound.

But, that also depends on the wood type, such as the "cheaper" grade woods used in some of the long 20 and 22" bass drums advertised by GC (for example).
A 20x22 Bubinga shell is going to sound huge, but a basswood shell....not so much.

Those sizes would easily give a full "big" sound, with a good balance of punch (attack) and fat full tone, along with the ability of the deeper shell getting a longer note without getting the undesireable overtones going.

That's my 2 cents from what I've experienced, so take what you want or not from it.

Sorry if this was too long....

[Drumsinhisheart]

Came upon this thread doing a search. Some great posts here.

Was thinking about the various bass drums I have played throughout the years, either manufactured or made by me. Mostly maple, some lesser luan in there, as well. I never use internal damping. Either some pieces of self-stick weather stripping, or moon gel pads, or a Gary Chaffee bass drum damper. Have also used the newer damped heads, but always cut some of the inner ring out of them. Just too dead sounding for me.

14x20 (2 different drums)
14x22, 18x22, 22x22
12x24, 18x24
10x26, 14x26, 24x26, 26x26
14x28

In the discussion of sound, just open-wide, non-dampened sound, obviously a larger chamber produces larger sound. That can be total square inches of any size drum, regardless of diameter. Cylinders are resonance chambers, basically. A deep 20" shell can produce about as much volume as a shallow 26" shell. But if you have ever heard Roto toms, you know an 18" is louder than a 10." Head size does amount to certain volume factors.

Larger heads produce lower notes. Head size effects "feel" of how the beater interacts, though. Especially 'where' the beater is placed on the head.

My current bass drum is the 22x22. Not my favorite, at all, and I'm going to shorten it up. I've never cared for 22" bass drums, ever. Just can never seem to come up with the right combination of sound and feel for that "effortless" effect.

My favorite bass drum to play on was a 26." Probably the 10x26. Always seemed to be able to play faster on that size head, based on beater placement, and also get the biggest bang for the buck. The 26x26 could hurt someone's chest sitting close to the drum. Just a massive impact. I ended up cutting it down a couple times.

That being said, the fastest note for note playing I have experienced has been on a 20" bass. Beater placement seems "compromised," but all things considered the feel was very quick. Obviously then, comparing the two, a shallow 26" head with beater hitting dead center has the same kind of feel (for me and my pedals) as a standard 20" hitting well off-center on the head.

Sound and feel have to be taken in a balanced fashion, logically. If you get a big huge sound but cannot get the right feel it becomes frustrating.

I also experimented with making my own port tube from a typical 6"x6" audio speaker tube. Worked out well, because it did increase low end, and it did increase resonance (go figure). But all in all the 22x22" drum is sluggish for me.

Impact from batter head to reso head and back is a strong factor in both sound and feel. Recently I went to a guy's house to jam. Guitarist, with a drum set there. Argent drums. Beginner's set. 14x22 bass drum. It's been many years since I played that depth. I must say, the sound was good with just a few gel pads, and the feel very good. I struggled with the pedal, but overall I was impressed by that drum, being what it is, physically.

I'm not sure I'm going to cut my current bass back to a 14." Probably 16," but 22" of depth is just too much air to move and get the "effortless" quick action I desire. The 6" port lessens air movement, obviously, but lower end, sonically, is not something I truly need. I would rather have articulation and response.

I am thinking, based on all these experiences, that a deeper 20" drum might be the ticket for me.

Next time.