Syncopation & Coordination

[Zodiak]

Hello,

I have this weird question... I've been watching some YouTube videos about syncopation, just to understand what it is academically, because I'm sort of doing it already in a couple of my band's songs. Anyways, I can play and come up with syncopated beats when the pulse (the hi-hat) is eight-notes or faster, then it's OK. But when it's a slower beat and the pulse uses fourth-notes, the bass drum syncopation sort of throws the right hand of. It's like I involuntarily want to follow the bass drum pattern with my right hand. Whereas when the pulse is eight-notes, this problem doesn't exist because the right hand's already playing fast and whatever I play on the bass drum fits into the pulse, so to speak. Does that make sense?

So, two questions:
1) When your syncopated beats (parts of them, anyway) still fall into the main pulse (when the hi-hat plays eight- or sixteenth-notes), is that valid syncopation or not? I would think it is, because the time is still 4/4, isn't it, so technically there are still four beats in a bar, or not?
2) What should I do to make my right hand stop following whatever my right foot is doing? It's annoying, to say the least.

I don't have the same problem with my left hand, though, the snare is totally independent, so its syncopation is not a problem, but I also want to play some interesting kick-drum patterns and when your right hand always does the same as your kick-drum, well, it sucks.

Thanks in advance!

[Zodiak]

Is there something wrong with the thread? :( 78 views and not a single reply. I'm sorry if there is, English ain't my first language, so I might have made little or no sense at all...

[drumrod]

Practice,practice,practice......it,s not syncopation ....it,s co-ordination and the way your right hand will follow the right foot through years of use it has become "memorised" ....your left is different because it has not become "memorised " through use over years....I still cannot do it fully the hi-hat and bass drum will sometimes play the same it is all practice.....but it can be difficult try playing a paradiddle with a double bass pedal it does the same until you can teach it out of yourself.....ssome exercises on drummerworld will help but in all honesty it will only be you that can hear it and another drummer most of the audience won't ...anyway play it like that it may be more interesting think out of the box.cheers Drumrod.

[Zodiak]

Yeah, I wanted to actually ask whether it was all that important... I always thought you had to keep a steady pulse with the hi-hat, so if it starts following the kick-drum, you'll sort of throw everyone off, but on the other hand I dunno if a lot of people will notice that...

[ericmiles]

Hello,

So, two questions:
1) When your syncopated beats (parts of them, anyway) still fall into the main pulse (when the hi-hat plays eight- or sixteenth-notes), is that valid syncopation or not? I would think it is, because the time is still 4/4, isn't it, so technically there are still four beats in a bar, or not?
2) What should I do to make my right hand stop following whatever my right foot is doing? It's annoying, to say the least.

I don't have the same problem with my left hand, though, the snare is totally independent, so its syncopation is not a problem, but I also want to play some interesting kick-drum patterns and when your right hand always does the same as your kick-drum, well, it sucks.



Answer 1: Syncopation has nothing to do with the time signature. It has to do with how the hits fall in relation to the pulse. In general, things are syncopated when they are off the pulse. Though syncopated rhythms will have hits that can be both on and off the pulse.

I always think that it is the wrong question to ask if something is "valid". Though, if english is not your first language, than think about if this is the word you mean. If it sounds good, it is good. Whether something is valid is a question for the musicologists, and I never trust them to comment on music.

Answer 2: drumrod had it right. Practice, practice,practice. I good excersise is to try and only use the limbs that are having coordination issues, and then add in the others one at a time.

eric

[jamndrummer]

I recommend you get this book and put some time patterns over the syncopation melodies. Good luck.


Keep sheddin the wood!

[dea]

If you want to make creative use of your hat, your band mates need to keep time themselves. You are just there as an anchor. Tapping out quarters or eights with the hat is too boring and will stifle the incredibly expressive potential the hat holds.

[MadJazz]

Instead of posting a link to a book, can't you guys be a bit more helpful and tell how to start syncopating rythms? If you can't give some clear examples to start off with, I wonder how capable you are of syncopating.

[mrchattr]

Instead of posting a link to a book, can't you guys be a bit more helpful and tell how to start syncopating rythms? If you can't give some clear examples to start off with, I wonder how capable you are of syncopating.

Did you even read the thread? He knows how to syncopate, he's just having a problem with his independence while doing it...so the answers in here are more than valid.

[MadJazz]

Did you even read the thread? He knows how to syncopate, he's just having a problem with his independence while doing it...so the answers in here are more than valid.

I thought the thread was open to anyone who's interested in syncopation. Or should I start an identical thread just to get to know more on the subject?

[mrchattr]

I thought the thread was open to anyone who's interested in syncopation. Or should I start an identical thread just to get to know more on the subject?

If you want more information, I would recommend asking, rather than being rude about it. Or...you know, checking out the book that was mentioned, which is probably the most used book to teach syncopation to drummers.

[jotte]

Hi!

Here is a tutorial at Learningdrum, designed to develop more coordination
control over syncopated beats.

Start Learningdrum Education (http://www.learningdrum.com/drumeducation.html)

Choose module: Technique, in the left menu.
Choose chapter: Coordination, in the top menu.
Choose scene: # 6 Off the 8th note, in the bottom menu.
Also check out the other scenes in the chapter, they can be useful for you.


If you have any questions about the tutorial you can post them at the
Learningdrum Drums And Percussion Community Forum (http://www.learningdrum.com/forum_eng/index.php)

All the best!

/ Jotte

[jeffwj]

Hi!

Here is a tutorial at Learningdrum, designed to develop more coordination
control over syncopated beats.

Start Learningdrum Education (http://www.learningdrum.com/drumeducation.html)

Choose module: Technique, in the left menu.
Choose chapter: Coordination, in the top menu.
Choose scene: # 6 Off the 8th note, in the bottom menu.
Also check out the other scenes in the chapter, they can be useful for you.


If you have any questions about the tutorial you can post them at the
Learningdrum Drums And Percussion Community Forum (http://www.learningdrum.com/forum_eng/index.php)

All the best!

/ Jotte

I noticed that ALL of your posts are about your Learning Drum website. Maybe people would be more receptive to you if you join in on the discussion, instead of posting links to a site that is difficult to navigate.

[Pat Petrillo]

Zodiac

One of things you can try is this. I use it with students at times..

Simply practice separating your right hand and right foot by playing 1/4's with the right hand (high hat), and 8th notes on the "&" in between with the bass drum. Then play them together for 4 beats, then separate for 4 beats. Then randomly break it up..together, then separate, etc..this will get you playing "syncopated" beats, which basically means mixing the bass drum rhythmically in various non accented places. Once you can do this, add the snare on 2 & 4...Its simply a coordination issue..you'll work it out!

There are books that you can use, but if reading is not your thing yet, then just practice this until you can keep your high hat steady while bringing the bass drum in and out in between, Start at 60 BPM, and get gradually quicker.

Good Luck, and keep the faith !

All the Best