Art of Bop Drumming

[mmkat99]

I just got this book and I am on page 17 which is comp example 1. I cannot wrap my brain around this because it doesn't have the ride cymbal pattern on there, so I get lost. I don't know why it makes it that much harder! I am also having trouble trying to right it in correctly. Any suggestions?

[caddywumpus]

If you absolutely NEED to, make a photocopy and write in the ride cymbal and hi hat parts. When you get them down, though, go back and re-read them without the ride and hat parts. Most jazz charts won't have the cymbal parts written out, just the hits and catches. It's best that you get used to reading this way as soon as possible. Plus, you can go back over all of the examples later with a different riding pattern (Latin rhythms, broken time, etc...).

That's a GREAT book! I would recommend Beyond Bop Drumming when you get through it (same author).

[mmkat99]

Thank you. I appreciate it.

[Deltadrummer]

You might want to start with Chapin's Advanced Techniques for the Modern Drummer, which has the ride pattern in it. Also spending five or ten minutes daily with a metronome playing and internalizing that pattern would not be a bad idea, or you could play the pattern with a recording. Blakey comes to mind.

[caddywumpus]

You might want to start with Chapin's Advanced Techniques for the Modern Drummer, which has the ride pattern in it. Also spending five or ten minutes daily with a metronome playing and internalizing that pattern would not be a bad idea, or you could play the pattern with a recording. Blakey comes to mind.

I agree with delta drummer wholly. Having the ride cymbal pattern internalized is crucial for it to eventually "swing". Practicing that by itself is a good thing. Play along to some Art Blakey. He's got a great feel. The Moanin' album is a must-have for those getting into jazz, and great for drummers to play along with.

It takes a while to get over the initial hump...don't get discouraged. Take it a chunk at a time until you get it. Good luck (especially with comp example 4...heh heh).

[brittc89]

The learning curve in jazz independence is fairly high, so like caddywumpus said, once you get over that initial hump, youll be off and running. The thing you want to avoid is learning patterns themselves and then trying to apply them. Or else all youll ever be is a pattern player and never a musician. I know thats thinking very far ahead but I know Ive seen a ton of kids devote their lives to playing the Chapin book or the Art of Bop and they sound terrible because they dont have anything to say. Try and stay away from that rut.

For your actual problem, play the ride cymbal by itself A LOT, play it fast, slow, medium, really fast, really slow, loud, quiet, medium and really internalize that feel and that pattern. Then start adding those comping figures, but make sure your snare and bass drum dont overpower the ride cymbal, which will be your most important aspect of jazz time-keeping. Just go slow and be persistent and it will come. Have fun.

[Garvin]

Definitely play through those slowly... Like suuuuuper slowly at first. Feel where your hands line up and eventually you will be able to rip right through those comping pages (which are great!)

Good Luck!

[caprisun3484]

The learning curve in jazz independence is fairly high, so like caddywumpus said, once you get over that initial hump, youll be off and running. The thing you want to avoid is learning patterns themselves and then trying to apply them. Or else all youll ever be is a pattern player and never a musician. I know thats thinking very far ahead but I know Ive seen a ton of kids devote their lives to playing the Chapin book or the Art of Bop and they sound terrible because they dont have anything to say. Try and stay away from that rut.

For your actual problem, play the ride cymbal by itself A LOT, play it fast, slow, medium, really fast, really slow, loud, quiet, medium and really internalize that feel and that pattern. Then start adding those comping figures, but make sure your snare and bass drum dont overpower the ride cymbal, which will be your most important aspect of jazz time-keeping. Just go slow and be persistent and it will come. Have fun.

i agree the intials steps to becoming a jazz drummer are challenging but once you start you can really do some cool stuff

[mmkat99]

Im trying to write out the cymbal patterns and im having trouble doing that? its been so long since I have starting going through a book again and actually reading the music.

[Deltadrummer]

Here is an exercise you can use based on Ted Reed Syncopation book.

Set you metronome to various tempos starting with 84 or 88, but don't go faster than 120 or 130. Each day use different metronome markings.

Play the jazz ride pattern with high hat on 2 and 4 and BD lightly on all four beats.
SD does quarter notes: each measure 4x's, dashes are rests, numbers are quarter notes.

4 beat measures:
1 - - -
- 2 - -
- - 3 -
- - - 4
1 - - 4
1 - 3 -
1 2 - -
- 2 3 -
- - 3 4
- 2 3 4
1 - 3 4
1 2 - 4
1 2 3 -
1 - - 4
1 2 3 4.

then after a few weeks
1a - - -
- 2a - -
- -3a -
- - - 4a
1a 2a - -
- 2a 3a -
- -3a 4a
1a - - 4a
-2a 3a 4a
1a - 3a 4a
1a 2a - 4a
1a 2a 3a -
1a 2a 3a 4a

The exercise can be done with the BD or HH playing the quarter notes and SD plays on 4 for both BD plays quarters for HH.

[LayinDown]

So i know nothing about jazz drumming...what "ride pattern" is everyone referring to? The basic triplet pattern I always hear? Is it triplets? Is that the basic pattern for all jazz?

[branflakes992]

The Art of Bop Drumming is an amazing book by John Riley it has catapulted my jazz coordination. The ride cymbal pattern is
4| X - - )X - X) X - -) X - X) |
/4

Those are triplets. Will sound like ding ching da ding ching da ding ching da ding
The parentheses are dividing the triplets. lol this probably won't help at all..sorry

[brittc89]

So i know nothing about jazz drumming...what "ride pattern" is everyone referring to? The basic triplet pattern I always hear? Is it triplets? Is that the basic pattern for all jazz?

Yes most likely. 1 2-let 3 4-let and so on.

[Clayton_C]

The Art of Bop Drumming is a fantastic guide. But like someone else already mentioned, definitely don't practice and memorize each individual measure like you would with a killer fill off a Dave Weckl album.

Because jazz isn't about playing GROOVE, but rather, playing TIME. So the way I worked through that book (and it was a tremendous aid to my playing) was to set the metronome slow - around tempo 80 - and try to sightread through the whole 2 pages of Comp Example 1. If you miss a note, big whoop... push through and ignore your mistakes. Focus on time and trying to get your limbs hitting the right sequence of notes without compromising time.
The second time through, focus on mistakes - when you miss a punch... continue through with the phrase (be it a single measure or a four-bar phrase, etc.) without playing under your ride/hihat pattern. Then go back to the beginning of the phrase you missed, and start again from beat 1. Eventually you should be able to crank the metronome up to 160 or so and sightread the whole thing, adding fills or time whenever you want and making it creative.

If you can play along with a looping bass/piano track, that helps too.

Also: another neat trick to develop limb interdependence... try playing the 4/4 phrases written in the book INSIDE a oddly-timed phrase. Say Riley has written a four-bar triplet kind of thing. Well try playing that phrase in an eight-measure phrase of 7/8.

[bballdrummer34]

The Art of Bop Drumming is a fantastic guide. But like someone else already mentioned, definitely don't practice and memorize each individual measure like you would with a killer fill off a Dave Weckl album.

Because jazz isn't about playing GROOVE, but rather, playing TIME. So the way I worked through that book (and it was a tremendous aid to my playing) was to set the metronome slow - around tempo 80 - and try to sightread through the whole 2 pages of Comp Example 1. If you miss a note, big whoop... push through and ignore your mistakes. Focus on time and trying to get your limbs hitting the right sequence of notes without compromising time.
The second time through, focus on mistakes - when you miss a punch... continue through with the phrase (be it a single measure or a four-bar phrase, etc.) without playing under your ride/hihat pattern. Then go back to the beginning of the phrase you missed, and start again from beat 1. Eventually you should be able to crank the metronome up to 160 or so and sightread the whole thing, adding fills or time whenever you want and making it creative.

If you can play along with a looping bass/piano track, that helps too.

Also: another neat trick to develop limb interdependence... try playing the 4/4 phrases written in the book INSIDE a oddly-timed phrase. Say Riley has written a four-bar triplet kind of thing. Well try playing that phrase in an eight-measure phrase of 7/8.

woa woa jazz isn't about playing groove? That's news to me and i've been playing it for years. I think what the others are saying is make sure that you are "swinging"/"grooving" when you are practicing these exercises and be careful not to make them sound stiff or forced.

[Deltadrummer]

woa woa jazz isn't about playing groove? That's news to me and i've been playing it for years. I think what the others are saying is make sure that you are "swinging"/"grooving" when you are practicing these exercises and be careful not to make them sound stiff or forced.

yeah, there was a reason shy I picked Blakey at the outset.:)

[Wavelength]

You might want to start out by playing quarter notes on the ride cymbal and the bass drum, and 2&4 on the hi-hat. Maintaining this groove is easier than the actual swing pattern, and you can focus more on reading the exercises -- it shouldn't be to difficult to see how the rhythms relate to the quarter note pulse. Once you have "got" a measure in this manner, try adding the skip notes on the ride cymbal.

[mmkat99]

You might want to start out by playing quarter notes on the ride cymbal and the bass drum, and 2&4 on the hi-hat. Maintaining this groove is easier than the actual swing pattern, and you can focus more on reading the exercises -- it shouldn't be to difficult to see how the rhythms relate to the quarter note pulse. Once you have "got" a measure in this manner, try adding the skip notes on the ride cymbal.

Makes perfect sense! I finished writing out a couple of lines with the ride pattern but I am going to try doing quarter notes instead. Thanks

[oops]

Or check out page 9. It should have some patterns written out that already have the ride and snare parts together.

Work on those first, and then get into the Comps.

[Sah]

Learn the warm up exercises at the start of the book first. They have the ride patterns filled in. With these you also play the bass on 1,2,3,4 to give feel. It's probably best to just get the ride pattern with the bass drum and hi-hat going and then try to put in the left hand a bit at a time.

[gusty]

and once you've got the comping down, write in some accents above some of the notes in the comping exercises. It's surprising how challenging accenting the notes is, and keeping a consistent ride cymbal sound.

[tim1987]

Though I wouldn't use it in a real situation, I've been lately playing the ride pattern on the left hand, and playing the comping examples with my right hand.

This helps so that when I go back to the right hand lead, it feels a lot easier.