Matched Grip vs. Traditional Grip: Pro's and Con's?

[vroom125]

What are the advantages and disadvantages of each grip? Which grip do you use?

[beatz]

Ah yes, the time honored classic question: matched versus traditional. I personally use both grips. But there isn't really any advantages of one over the other.

[cvighals]

Yes there is an advantage with the traditional grip: IT LOOKS BETTER!!

But I can`t learn it, I just don`t seem to get it, how to execute it!!?

[Dyaxe]

Yes there is an advantage with the traditional grip: IT LOOKS BETTER!!

But I can`t learn it, I just don`t seem to get it, how to execute it!!?

download it at downloaddrums.com/tradional.exe

Unzip to the drummer folder

Execute Tradional.exe

and voila! La Tradional En Perfection!

[cvighals]

download it at downloaddrums.com/tradional.exe

Unzip to the drummer folder

Execute Tradional.exe

and voila! La Tradional En Perfection!

It`s not a virus or anything ?

[finnhiggins]

What are the advantages and disadvantages of each grip? Which grip do you use?

It's easier to damage your wrists trying to play hard with incorrect trad grip than matched. Says one who did it.

Matched is, for me, better for power playing and for some reason it just seems to feel better than trad grip for semiquaver based music. It's also easier to get consistent strokes going between your hands as you just need to duplicate movements from right to left.

Traditional grip is better for finesse, feels better in triplets (probably because I use it more for jazz than anything else) and also has some independence advantages for me - I find it easier to separate my right and left hands when the techniques are different, for some reason. I do find it harder to get consistent rolls and so forth in trad grip though.

That's all IMHO, but I use both regularly for different reasons. I also switch between a few different matched grips where I see fit as well...

[LDGuy]

download it at downloaddrums.com/tradional.exe

Unzip to the drummer folder

Execute Tradional.exe

and voila! La Tradional En Perfection!It`s not a virus or anything ?

*psst* i think he's kidding!

...

You know, if you say banana really slowly it sounds like gullable... lol.

[Lambo]

I was about to post the same topic earlier.... I have been playing American/french grip for the past 6 + 1/2 years since I started playing, and I have never gotten a good explanation as to why Trad is better for any given situation. And don't get me wrong, I am incredibly intrigued by match and do want to learn it to, but HOW HARD IS IT TO GET A STRAIGHT ANSWER!!!! I'm sure it must be great in certain ways, but it seems totally unnatural....

Please enlighten me, somebody!!!

[theduke86]

The specific reason why I do it is versatility... I like to play mallets, timbales and tympanis as well, and traditional grip doesn't cross over to those instruments. Plus if you ever want to explore open hand playing, you have that option.
Besides, I think traditional is out of it's time, it was created for field snare drummers who tilted their snares to the side. We don't really need to do that anymore, so why should we?
One more point- I like to make sure my weak hand(left) is as good as my right... what better way to compare than to use the exact same grips?

[finnhiggins]

I was about to post the same topic earlier.... I have been playing American/french grip for the past 6 + 1/2 years since I started playing, and I have never gotten a good explanation as to why Trad is better for any given situation. And don't get me wrong, I am incredibly intrigued by match and do want to learn it to, but HOW HARD IS IT TO GET A STRAIGHT ANSWER!!!! I'm sure it must be great in certain ways, but it seems totally unnatural....

Please enlighten me, somebody!!!

Righty :)

For jazz, traditional grip is quite ideal as far as I'm concerned. Reasons:

* Right hand is still able to describe a straight line to the cymbal, just like in matched grip. We'll ignore the right hand since it's obviously no different, but this is just to counter the usual "Why not play trad-left with both hands then?" :)
* Stick being on top of the hand makes it easier to execute strokes from extremely low heights - you have to move your hand to get a stroke, instead of the hand being kind of "pulled down" by the stick. Hard to explain, you have to feel it.
* The nature of the grip allows you to change the angle from which the stick strikes the head. For rock or pop I tend towards hitting as close to parallel to the head as I can without hitting the rims, but in jazz comping it is useful tonally to be able to alter the angle up to 45 degrees or even more. Watch some old jazz players and you'll see what I mean. This is really not easily achieveable in matched grip without dropping your snare very low, and that cuts off your ability to his parallel strokes.
* I find it easier to hit the tops (not the edges) of cymbals in traditional grip, for the same reason as the point above. That's often appropriate in jazz where you might just want a very gentle note with the tip of a stick on a crash cymbal rather than a full blown whack like you would in a rock context.
* Again for the same reason, it's easier to play muted strokes into a drum (hit and leave the stick in) with your left hand in trad grip - you can raise the stick angle to nearly ninety degrees and just push down. There's a Peter Erskine video where he does this quite nicely in a solo, it's a pleasant musical effect, particularly when you leave the stick in and use it as a pitch-bend for the other hand by altering the pressure. Doing this in matched grip with the stick a lower angle to the head results in more tension in the wrist.

So, for those reasons I think traditional grip is mechanically better for some uses. I still play mostly matched though, for the same reasons mentioned elsewhere in the thread - adaptability, ability to open up the hands and so forth. I've just developed a fairly seamless way of switching between the two grips (it's the only twirl I do!) and have enough overlap that I can play either way until I get enough time to make the switch.

[Pedro]

I try to use both, but technically I'm better in mached. Sometimes it feels better to play traditional, sometimes mached, depending on the situation.

But I still believe you can exerciese both grips to play anything with it. You can go as far as you want with each grip. So I think it's more a metter of technique than a metter of grip.

Many drummers proved that you can do everything with both grips.

I play the grip I feel the most comfortable at the moment.

And also: I also like to play marimba and stuff, and you need mached for it.

[mikkeydee]

I ve played both.
with matched grip i cant even do an even double stroke roll
with trad i can play good rudiments, which give me a good reputation as a tutor in my area.

That might sound weird to most of u.. I know all the muscle/phisical/mechanical theories......but it s just the way works for me....

Anyone the same as i am?

[aahznightsky]

Righty :)

For jazz, traditional grip is quite ideal as far as I'm concerned. Reasons...



I understand the technical differences between grips that allow for higher angles on drums and light hits on crashes (although I don't understand then, why you have your cymbals so high, so forget that advantage). So other than the higher angle possibility, there's no other advantage. I hear people say it gives a lighter feel and better feel and more voice possibilities on the drums, but that's totally incorrect. I can get every little nuance out of my instument playing matched that I heard a old (like 60 something!) jazz player who idolized traditional grip, he was testing me and I proved him wrong. I can understand why people say matched is for more power, but THIS IS ONLY if you don't have that much control out of your left hand! You can be just as subtle with your left with matched grip.

So I choose matched because I have all the same control that traditional people claim is exclusive to them plus both my hands are identical for ambidextrous playing (ease of reversing stickings and such for different voicing around my kit)

[Stu_Strib]

With traditional grip, you can incorporate fingers into the playing much easier (well, IF you can do it, its very difficult if you were raised match grip). Watch the Drumbassadors or Steve Smith, and just watch how fast the play with just fingers.

As for me, I play traditional when grooving, but switch (quick twirl) to matched when I move around the kit with big fast loud licks. Otherwise I miss stuff, and drop the left stick (mostly because I'm not very good with traditional grip, but always practicing on the pad to get better).,

Also for Jazz comping, I find it better to have the hand UNDER the stick as opposed to over it. I think its easier to manipulate the notes that way, especially triplets.

[Pedro]

With traditional grip, you can incorporate fingers into the playing much easier (well, IF you can do it, its very difficult if you were raised match grip). Watch the Drumbassadors or Steve Smith, and just watch how fast the play with just fingers.

As for me, I play traditional when grooving, but switch (quick twirl) to matched when I move around the kit with big fast loud licks. Otherwise I miss stuff, and drop the left stick (mostly because I'm not very good with traditional grip, but always practicing on the pad to get better).,

Also for Jazz comping, I find it better to have the hand UNDER the stick as opposed to over it. I think its easier to manipulate the notes that way, especially triplets.

And what about the right hand? Every of those drummers still play mached with their right hand and have the same controle as with their left (traditional) hand.

[K!lly]

..... I would say the Free stroke..
you'll say its a stroke, not a grip, but not, its a stroke that can be don only with the "free-grip".. that just my point of view..

just read the way I understand this concept:

in fact, the grips interact on the strokes.. and the "free-stroke-grip" is a combination of these two grips and strokes.

the traditional grip allow you to strokeby turning (don't find the right word, maybe twisting) your wrist and your front armlever..
the matched grip allox you to stroke by flexing you wrist and your arm.

So there two different movements:
-"traditional"=movement or your front arm lever, just like when you roll your fist on a table
-"matched"=movement or your wirst, when you tap on a table, without moving any other part of your body

the free-grip is like like the traditional grip, but with your hand's palm directed to the ground, and the stick is not taken between the fingers, but taken by tuos fingers, in the hand. (it is very significant to keep the hand parallel at the ground).

by this grip you'll be able to do both movements: twisting your front arm, and flexing your wrist...

maybe I'm wrong, cuz I'm a noob drummer, but's that the way I understand this concept

[Stevis]

I think traditional is a bit more comfortable than matched, but either are fun to play.

[finnhiggins]

I understand the technical differences between grips that allow for higher angles on drums and light hits on crashes (although I don't understand then, why you have your cymbals so high, so forget that advantage). So other than the higher angle possibility, there's no other advantage. I hear people say it gives a lighter feel and better feel and more voice possibilities on the drums, but that's totally incorrect.

Not really. How do you get a lighter feel and more voicing possibilities? Changing the angle of the stick is a very powerful way of doing that, yet you just discounted that as an advantage.

As for my cymbals, they're as low as I can get them without being uncomfortable trying to hit crashes through them in matched grip. If I play a crash then my hands would be at about shoulder height at the time of impact. In order to reach the top of the cymbals in matched I have to lift a little above shoulder height and reach "over" the cymbal, in traditional grip I can do it with my hands at shoulder height.

I think ideally it's a good idea to try to keep your hands at or below shoulder height when playing, any higher and I find I get more tension and tiredness creeping in.

As for the person who asked the everlasting "Why not play that way with both hands?" question... I headed that one off earlier: When playing ride cymbal with the right hand it is easier to have the stick in line with the arm to make it easier to stand the weight of holding your arm up in the air for a long time. Simple.

I don't doubt it's possible to get the same control in matched as in traditional. I don't doubt it's possible to get the same power in traditional as in matched. It's just harder to do and takes more time to learn, so I don't see why you wouldn't just learn to switch as appropriate.

[K!lly]

bahhh, my post was just full of ortograph mistakes....I've just correct them.. sry

anyway if you want to learn more about the "free stroke" technic, go on Vic Firth web site ( www.vicfirth.com ) and find the Dom Faramulo's educative video vault.

Its full of information.

[MaxRoach]

I dont know about the whole control issue of matched vs. traditional. I dont think that someone can get more control in one grip than the other. I started playing trad about a year ago, but I stopped because I realized that if I can learn to do everything with one grip instead of needing 2, then i'd be better off. Why would you want to switch when you dont have to? If anything, I'd only switch for the emotional feel. If i'm playing jazz, i would rather play traditional than matched just because I like the feel of it, but not because it sounds better. I just find that it's extra effort to learn 2 grips when you dont need to (except for the fact that it looks SO stylish :P).

[Henry II]

I was about to post the same topic earlier.... I have been playing American/french grip for the past 6 + 1/2 years since I started playing, and I have never gotten a good explanation as to why Trad is better for any given situation. And don't get me wrong, I am incredibly intrigued by match and do want to learn it to, but HOW HARD IS IT TO GET A STRAIGHT ANSWER!!!! I'm sure it must be great in certain ways, but it seems totally unnatural....

Please enlighten me, somebody!!!

The fact that you can't get a straight answer may actually be the answer you're looking for. Hmmm?

Anyway, here's my explanation based on my experience. Trad left hand grip uses forearm pronation to manipulate the stick - a mechanically superior motion to wrist technique - AS LONG AS THE ARM IS BENT AT ABOUT A 90 DEGREE ANGLE - in other words, on snare. When you straighten your arm greater that 90 degrees, ie: reaching for anything other than snare, the advantage is lost and a matched grip is superior. In fact, I think that the matched grip actually works better with the arm straightened beyond 90 degress.

JMHO. YMMV.

[Drummer_Boy]

Hey there..I'm trying to make myself learn the Traditional Grip, to be better suited for Jazz, and when i try to use my left hand, it seems to make the stick slice from side to side. Does anybody know what i'm talking about? What am I doing wrong, and how can I fix it? Also, sorry if this is a repost.

[Edward]

i love traditional grip! its the best

[AurelienPK]

The first two years of drumming, I played match grip and have recently switched to traditional and I just love it. It feels so much more natural to me. May be because I'm a jazz freak. With the snare drum a bit bent, I find the stick has a better contact.

take care,

[Drummer_Boy]

hello? anybody there?

[NUTHA JASON]

i know this really doesn't help much but i personally think that learning trad grip if you are already a matched grip player is a waste of time. trad was invented for marching with a drum on your hip into battle. the modern drumset does not need this grip for any styles...including jazz (although i will grant that in some ways it does look cool). if you learned trad grip from the start there is nothing wrong with carrying on with it but to develop a whole new approach seems silly to me. i would rather find a true weak sopt in my playing and work on that.

maybe when i have been drumming for thirty years i will learn trad just for a new adventure, but with guys like thomas lang tarring some unbelievable roads out there i don't think it will be very soon when i run out of things to try that are hard enough in the grip i've always used. and yes i know thomas is a mixed grip player but he is so far ahead of me that i won't even consider him as a role model in this arena.

j

[finnhiggins]

i know this really doesn't help much but i personally think that learning trad grip if you are already a matched grip player is a waste of time. trad was invented for marching with a drum on your hip into battle. the modern drumset does not need this grip for any styles...

<snip>

maybe when i have been drumming for thirty years i will learn trad just for a new adventure
j

Don't knock it until you've tried it. I started off matched, and I use both. They're both practical and useful for different things.

[cpdrumming]

originally posted by AurelienPK

Hey there..I'm trying to make myself learn the Traditional Grip, to be better suited for Jazz, and when i try to use my left hand, it seems to make the stick slice from side to side. Does anybody know what i'm talking about? What am I doing wrong, and how can I fix it? Also, sorry if this is a repost.

You should try watching your self at an angle in a mirror of some kind. Do this just playing fully extended eighth notes at @ 80 bmp. You'll notice that you'll either have to bend your wrist in towards your body, or push it out and extend your ring finger to compensate for the slice. Maintain a relaxed shoulder and let the stick rebound uninhibited while making these adjustments. I have found that if you will practice in a mirror regularly(I.E. 20 to 30 mins a day) you'll fix problems like this naturally. Then hopefully muscle memory will kick in and the problem will go away. Always remember to check your arms so there not sticking out some funny or unatural way. They should come up from your side bending at the elbows with no tension or stress of any kind.

[Drummer_Boy]

originally posted by AurelienPK

Hey there..I'm trying to make myself learn the Traditional Grip, to be better suited for Jazz, and when i try to use my left hand, it seems to make the stick slice from side to side. Does anybody know what i'm talking about? What am I doing wrong, and how can I fix it? Also, sorry if this is a repost.

You should try watching your self at an angle in a mirror of some kind. Do this just playing fully extended eighth notes at @ 80 bmp. You'll notice that you'll either have to bend your wrist in towards your body, or push it out and extend your ring finger to compensate for the slice. Maintain a relaxed shoulder and let the stick rebound uninhibited while making these adjustments. I have found that if you will practice in a mirror regularly(I.E. 20 to 30 mins a day) you'll fix problems like this naturally. Then hopefully muscle memory will kick in and the problem will go away. Always remember to check your arms so there not sticking out some funny or unatural way. They should come up from your side bending at the elbows with no tension or stress of any kind.

Thanks a LOT. I'll try it out, and hope it works.

[minishee07]

how do u use fingers (which fingers?) in trad grip. and i can't seem to get any power on the upstroke/rebound in a shuffle on the snare. advise plz

[Sticktrick]

how do u use fingers (which fingers?) in trad grip. and i can't seem to get any power on the upstroke/rebound in a shuffle on the snare. advise plz

Practise.

@Topic: To me, Traditional just feels better. It also looks better and it is way easier to twirl Sticks in traditional grip. I only switch to matched Grip for playing some Freehand Stuff that I worked on over the last few months.

Still: Everybody is free to do it as he or she likes. And there is one thing about trad that is harder to do than matched: Playing a solid and stable backbeat with Rimshots. This is maybe the hardest thing to learn as a trad player.

[devilfish]

Both grips are important in my opinion. I started off with traditional, moved to matched, then moved back to traditional and actually prefer traditional now. I played in the high school marching band matched grip and played my kit that way to start. But once I joined a Scottish Pipes & Drums Corps., I had to go back to traditional which was difficult at first because I wasn't very strong in that grip. After playing it for 5 years, I use it on the kit more often than I do matched and when I practice, I practice traditional grip. Now, when I play just to practice, I use traditional, then move into matched and then keep switching depending on what I'm trying to accomplish. It makes playing much more fun when you can change things up a little bit.

From a spectator's standpoint, I've seen many different amateur and professional drummers use various grips. Roy Haynes uses traditional. Steve Gadd uses traditional. Josh Freese uses both I believe and Dave Grohl uses matched. My uncle who just got signed with his Jazz band uses matched and believes that traditional grip doesn't belong on the kit. To each his own.

Most important piece of advice; play what you are comfortable with but don't be afraid to try something new. You never know, it may bring an exciting new element to your drumming that you didn't know existed before.

Good luck and have fun!

[Rick Wilkinson]

i know this really doesn't help much but i personally think that learning trad grip if you are already a matched grip player is a waste of time. trad was invented for marching with a drum on your hip into battle.
j
Nutha, With all due respect you should give it a try. Have you ever practiced the Open/Closed technique? For example the new Dave Weckl double-stroke video will prove my point. He talks about pinching the right hand (match grip) to get the double bounce viruses the Open/Closed technique for the right hand. But he goes on to say he doesn’t change how he’s used his left hand. Why? Because this grip is already as loose as it gets and it’s natural to turn your wrist for the first hit (open) and it’s natural to close your thumb after your hit for the bounce. This gives you a more natural open/closed move (again IMO). Give it a try.

Now it’s like anything else if you want power you use the big muscles, for speed the small ones. So IMO both grips are quite useful and have there place. It’s true that grip was invented for marching but I think the advantage was two-fold because I think it also compensates for the weaker left hand of a right handed player. Look at Buddy Rich smoke it up with the left hand with very little movement.
It’s true this is not the best grip for the full drum kit playing rock, but if you want to open up those double-stroke rolls this is a good way to get the left hand working for you. Plus you can do a simple quick spin to get from there to matched grip.

That being said I do play mostly matched grip on the kit, but I’m a lefty that plays a right handed set so my left is stronger but my right is faster I think from years of Jazz cymbal work (moller style).

Try doing a double-stroke roll as fast as you can for about 60 seconds with the traditional grip and see if one hand gets tired first. My right does.

It’s kind’a like the reading music threads. It’s not an absolute must but it can’t hurt to learn it. Next time you’re playing that slow boring song (boom-tap, boom-tap) instead of playing open handed or ?? to keep you occupied play it with the traditional grip and before you know it will feel natural.

[Pratt]

minishee07, I believe that the first thing for you to concern about is how are you holding the left stick. assuming that your balance and pushing point is in the right place, you will use different fingers for different playing momentums.

for accents, you´ll need arm rotation and thumb work to accelerate enough in order to get power. this is true for down and up strokes except that for down strokes you´ll have to be able to control the stick bounce by embraceing the stick as quickly as possible after the stroke, between your middle and ring fingers.

for taps, gently open the fingers for release and with litlle arm rotation to bring the sick back, BUT for ups: you´ll push back the stick with the first articulation of the ring finger, along with an energic arm rotation (the same but opposit of down stroke - to wich the thumb does the pulling work).

for continuous bounceing: arm rotation and impulse on the balance point (wich is located under the sistem formed by thumb and the point finger) will work fine. remember to use the feedback from the impact on the drum to push the stick back.

and...for double, triple or multiple bounces: a litlle pressure on the balance point and embrace the stick after you got enough strokes.

this works great for me, but is uneffective if you hold the stick too much towards the butt or the tip ends. then you kill fisics, and it kills you.

oh, the arm rotation, for traditional is the equivalent for the vertical wrist motion for match.

hope it has been of some help!

[AlbinoBlackbird]

anyone else notice until stevis post they were all double two exact same posts

[NUTHA JASON]

rick:
Now it’s like anything else if you want power you use the big muscles, for speed the small ones. So IMO both grips are quite useful and have there place

good post and i have nothing against drummers that use one or the other or both. its just that my matched grip technique uses big and small muscles too. i would rather become a brilliant matched grip drummer. just like my choice on pedals. i have avoided double bass because i want a great right foot and so the challenge is to do as much with one as i might do with two. that being said my left pumps the hi hat all the time... so i guess i could get into double bass but first i want chadsmith's. nico mcbraind and of course bonzo's single pedal skill.

i guess the argument is not one grip or the other but more shoul one learn one or both. for my money (or practice time) i would rather master one that be a 'jack' of both trades.

j

[Rick Wilkinson]

NUTHA can’t argue with you there except maybe the "'jack' of both trades" comment. Sounds so harsh, It’s all-good isn’t it? The more you know the more you can grow and expand your capabilities.

But Mark Wessels (a Vic Firth Rudiment teacher) uses only Matched grip and he seems to be a brilliant matched grip player. And as was mentioned before that grip is better for the set players also. So what can I say?

I have no problem playing both ways myself, but play mostly matched grip (like you) but sometimes it just feels and sounds better (to me) to switch. I would just call it, having another tool in the bag.


Like in Dave Weckl double-stroke video he only had to re-train the right (matched grip) hand. So there must be some advantage to this grip wouldn’t you agree?

But for sure, if you have a limited amount of practice time you need to adjust your priorities. I can see moving this down the list especially if the type of music you play does not require it. You’re a teacher so you know more about that than me I’m sure. But a waste of time. That like most things is debatable.

BTW I like your Bonsai trees quite impressive.



http://www.vicfirth.com/education/studcentersnare.html

[NUTHA JASON]

cool. no insult was meant by jack tho. its just a phrase.

j
ps now that summer is at its height the trees are looking great. might replace the photots with new ones that show them better.

[Rick Wilkinson]

A Bit off topic so you can delete this but I planted a Cottonless Cottonwood tree in my yard yesterday. But there no Bonsai for sure.

[drumzalicious]

i actually used to play traditional when i would play jazz because it was easier to get those quick one handed buzzes. now however i am able to play that stuff matched so i usually flip back and forth when playing jazz but other than that i play matched.

[Raymond Bloom]

Mhm...I watched that Dom Falmularo video with Jim Chapin on Vic Firth web page, and ya know what, Jim does triplets and 16th notes better with his left hand... IMHO if u want to get into Moeller technique and Gladstone technique it could be better to learn trad grip basicly just because when these techniques were invented drummers mainly played using trad grip.

Another thing is more different sound options because of the angle the stick is benig hold, for example when doing triplets u can get 3 different sounds easely just because each one of these strokes will have a completely different angle

As for why one should learn trad grip, here are my reasons:
1) looks cool :DD
2) a different feal
3) easyer to do triplets

One more thing, i liked the way how Jojo Mayer explained why he uses trad grip - first of all it is because he had some clinics from the guys that lived in the big bad and early jazz era and they just sayed ''hey what's that? that's not a grip! Man, u should play in traditional'' :DD
The reasons he keeps playing that - it just makes a completely different feal and the left arm is able to do things that his right wouldn't come up to, as he sayed he is sometimes surprised of what his left hand does :D and - asymmetry is more creative then symmetry

[RudimentalDrummer]

I think it actually doesn't really matter whether one is using Traditional or Match Grip or both - It's a matter of preference ... both are equally good though majority of drummers are using Match.

The important thing is that the technique eg. match grip (if we are using it) has to be correct, as I only found out when I was having my 1st Drum lesson last Saturday. I didn't know that I was doing it wrongly all these while, till my instructor told me when he saw me doing my Double-Stroke....and so...the last 3 fingers in Match Grip has to control the rebound (we must be able to catch the sticks) and not let freely. I was told by my instructor - to play it slowly...it's ok and build speed later on - just get the technique correct....and all our stroke will be perfect and precise later-on....I guess playing loud without draining strength lies here too - the technique. My sticks have to be always just around/above the snare app 1 to 1.5cm after each stroke ??????

[Elemental Nausea]

The specific reason why I do it is versatility... I like to play mallets, timbales and tympanis as well, and traditional grip doesn't cross over to those instruments. Plus if you ever want to explore open hand playing, you have that option.
Besides, I think traditional is out of it's time, it was created for field snare drummers who tilted their snares to the side. We don't really need to do that anymore, so why should we?
One more point- I like to make sure my weak hand(left) is as good as my right... what better way to compare than to use the exact same grips?

very good points, or just a justification for me why I want to stay with my match grip and find it completely impossible to handle trad. grip....yeah right , trad. grip was originally for field drummers because their snare was so close to them tilted another way , so that they could reach it best by using this trad. grip.
by the way: why is every &^%$£ post posted twice on this thread???

[dum_drummer]

do you use traditional or mached grip?
i was wondering which one is more popular/beter for diferent playing styles

[jamndrummer]

do you use traditional or mached grip?
i was wondering which one is more popular/beter for diferent playing styles


I started with Traditional then went to matched. I started practicing traditional again but only want to use that while playing the jazz style.

[illy]

i play matched. only time i used traditional was when i was in my high school drumline.

[Raymond Bloom]

look up there to the ''sticky'' threads :))

[hotsauce3n]

Yes, i think it depends what style or what your comfortable with, like rock i would never play traditional, but jazz i would play mainly traditional unless i wanted a certain dynamic that is easier with matched.

[Mcot2]

I can't get used to traditional, but ive heard its easier with jazz and rudiments.

Although, I watch max weinberg on conan almost every night and he uses traditional for faster drumming and then when he goes to big hits and moving around the kit he uses matched.

[wildmanblue]

Traditional grip is really only used for jazz (as explained previously) and marching snare. The reason almost every marching band and drum corp uses trad grip is for its visual appeal. Marching snares are meant to be seen, and involve many people playing the same thing simultaneously top make a single entity. Match grip lacks much of the visual allure of trad grip.

IMHO it is much more impressive watching 8 snare play identically with trad than with match.

Also, when playing double mallets, the rotational movement of the hand is almost identical to traditional grip. So practicing one does help with the other.


P.S. Santa Clara is just playing match for the sake of being different, which i think is pretty lame but w/e

[Rick Wilkinson]

Just an observation, but the three most admired (talked about) drummers on this site are Gadd, Vinnie C, and Weckl. And as far as I have seen they play exclusively with the traditional grip. Hum………..

Then I took a look a Dennis Chambers (and the Buddy Rich Big Band)

http://www.drummerworld.com/Videos/Dennischambers1.html (http://www.drummerworld.com/Videos/Dennischambers1.html)

And I noticed near the end of his solo he switches to the traditional grip for what looks like some ghost notes, etc. Notice how he lifts the but-end of his stick higher for the dainty sounding ghost notes (the stick and attack angle). It’s a simple technique that’s often ignored or over looked because it’s just not ROCK enough for most. But it’s good enough for Dennis (for one) so...

If you want to be a good/great matched grip player that’s 100% cool and a personal preference. But if you want to learn/experiment with different sounds and technique’s (like most drummers do) you could play a few bars with traditional grip for the sound. It will not interfere or effect your "matched grip technique" plus it can only make you a more "well- rounded" drummer with virtually no effort on your part (That's if your goal is to be a "well-rounded" drummer I guess some just want heavy-metal or ???). But who knows you just might find that your left hand will out perform your right in some cases. But the fact is, if you never give it a chance you’ll never know.

FYI: I’ve played Rock & Jazz so I can play both ways with ease, and I do play about 90% of the time Matched grip. But it does depends on what I'm playing.

I would never tell someone they should or should-not play how they want (unless they are developing a bad habit.) But surly you want to "Be all you can be" Without joining the US Army right? LOL

[Snowdogyyz]

A buddy of mine was at Summer NAMM and had a 3 hour impromptu lesson with Jim Chapin. Chapin told him matched is definitely the way to go over traditional. He told him basically not to waste much time playing in traditional grip. I'm sure there are various opinions on it.

[Mike St.Clair]

I think it's kind of screwy how quite a few think if you play traditional, you're a better percussionist. I played matched and have dawdled with playing traditional. I think it's all a preference thing but I guess I'm just never destined to be great until I switch.....

[Rick Wilkinson]

I think it's kind of screwy how quite a few think if you play traditional, you're a better percussionist. I played matched and have dawdled with playing traditional. I think it's all a preference thing but I guess I'm just never destined to be great until I switch.....

Yes it is a preference thing or a use as needed thing IMO. I just think young and up-coming drummers should not be discouraged from even trying it.

In school (well 30+ years ago) you’ll play the snare with traditional grip (most likely) but you’ll play the Tympani with the French grip (thumbs up) That’s how they get that killer clean uniform Single stroke roll.

When I play Matched grip I really play my right hand in more of a French grip position (especially on cymbals) and my left hand is more in the German grip position (thumbs inward) most of the time.

IMO the French grip will allow your stick to move more freely than the German grip because with French your stick lays over top of your index finger and pivots easily (from the bottom) without much hand/finger pressure. Whereas with the German grip (with thumbs in) you need to grip it a bit tighter (more friction) in order to hold the stick in position (between the thumb and index finger tip) not allowing the freedom of the French grip. Plus I feel my last 3 fingers will help me out more with the French grip.

Here’s a clip of Dennis Chambers playing a bit with his left hand French (thumbs up)

http://www.drummerworld.com/Videos/dennischambersclinic.html (http://www.drummerworld.com/Videos/dennischambersclinic.html)

Here’s a bit of Billy Ward playing with left hand French (thumb up) also

http://www.drummerworld.com/Videos/billywardbigtime.html (http://www.drummerworld.com/Videos/billywardbigtime.html)

Now the traditional left hand grip the stick will rest on the base of your index finger next to your thumb and pivots from the bottom of the stick much like the French grip allowing more free stick movement and less friction. So if you want speed less friction is better right? But you don’t always need speed so play the way that’s comfy for you but know and explore your options. I think that if your able switch your left hand to French and/or Traditional grip at will you’ll be better for it.



It would be cool to here what Billy or Dennis has to say about this topic.

[devilfish]

Wow, this discussion is still going on. My opinion is not to say that one is better over the other. They both have different origins and different uses. I can play both and I practice both. I use both on my kit and I use both when just practicing on my pad. My advice is to not bash something until you try it. And I don't mean, play a few hours in that style and then say it sucks. Give it a good go (a few months) and try to learn it. Once you've learned a bit about it, how to use it and it's benefits versus downfalls, then you can say that you don't like it. Again, just my opinion.

Cheers.

[vince]

Hi,
I've been playing drums for now 7 years. During 5 years I used to play match grip... So 2 years ago i decided to play traditionnal grip ( the true reason was that Steve gadd, Dave Weckl and many of my favorites drummers used to play that way...) After a few months i've realised thaht i could express more dynamics, and some aspects were easier to approach... for example i think It's easier to make a double-stroke roll using the traditionnal grip...
And for those who say this grip is for jazz players : did Vinnie Colaiuta not record the last Megadeth's album ? And take a look to Thomas Lang...

[Bonzo]

My only problem with traditional grip for drumset is that it looks so unnatural going around the set. Like when Weckl or Gadd are soloing, when they get to the right side of the kit, it looks like it takes so much more effort. It's not natural looking. Though I do think there is something appealing about watching the jazz greats use it.

[devilfish]

One thing, even though I play both grips, that I've always found difficult about playing the kit traditional is hitting the cymbals. I just can't seem to get the same sound as matched grip out of the cymbals when playing traditional. Anyone have suggestions as to how to correct this? I'm currently back at the basics trying to strengthen my left hand and my control over it.

Cheers.

[dothecrunge]

Here's a picture of John Bonham using traditional grip:

http://photobucket.com/albums/y117/ledzeppelinorg1/multimedia/photos/bonzo1/bonzo30.jpg

I'm almost certain this photo was taken the day of the 1970 [1970.06.28] Bath Festival in Shepton Mallet, England. This show, although the only audience recording is crap, is considered one of the greatest, if not the greatest show Led Zeppelin ever put on, debuting Immigrant Song for the first time.

[dothecrunge]

I just noticed that white thing in his hand. It looks like he's holding his mallet backwards in his hand as well. Maybe the prelude to "Four Sticks"!?

[NUTHA JASON]

four sticks. i wish there was footage and transcripts of that. its very hard to hear and guess what bonzo is doing.

j

[dothecrunge]

four sticks. i wish there was footage and transcripts of that. its very hard to hear and guess what bonzo is doing.

j

I have a few outtakes of "Four Sticks" where the drums are much louder. I would be happy to upload them for you [or anyone for that matter] to hear.

You should hear what "Four Sticks" sounded like when it was re-recorded in Bombay in 1972! Eek!

edit: "Four Sticks" was only played live once in the Led Zeppelin days. I could upload that as well if you'd like, as thier happens to be a fair sounding audience recording of it.

[Drummertist]

I see many of the great drummers on this site and almost all use the traditional grip. Even some of the younger one's use it. I use matched grip and I was wondering:

Does the traditional grip have some advantage that the matched grip doesn't?

Where's a good place online that illustrates how to do traditional grip?

Do you use matched or traditional?

Thanks a lot!

[aahznightsky]

OK I'll just get started with some stuff


MATCHED

+grip for both hands is identical
=good for reversing stickings
=good for open handed playing

- ???


TRADITIONAL

+supposed better nuances and sounds than matched (but I play matched and have the same control I don't understand people that say this) mostly jazz players advocate this

+this is the only real advantage i see of this grip=easy to do crosstick without tricky manipulation of the stick...

-range of motion is decreased. In traditional grip your stick is naturally turned a little more inwards, meaning it overlaps with range from your other hand, annnd you have to turn your arm more to the left in order to reach that direction than you would with matched grip.

-you have to learn totally different grips, techniques, and work different muscles in your two arms.

() originally developed in marching snare drummers who had their drums severely tilted to one side and away from them, so as to not damage their wrists with their left hand's grip. Of course you can still tilt your drums away from you if you want, but thats just a note

[mediocrefunkybeat]

Well, I'm a traditional player, but aahznightsky has made some good points. I think there are some slight advantages to traditional grip, I find I have better control with my left hand, but that said that's a personal preference.

A lot of the drummers on the website were taught in 'traditional' methods (such as marching snare drum) and therefore naturally lean towards traditional grip. Matched grip makes more cognitive sense in many respects however.

[finnhiggins]

TRADITIONAL

+supposed better nuances and sounds than matched (but I play matched and have the same control I don't understand people that say this) mostly jazz players advocate this


You missed one..

+ More control over the angle of the left stick. Matched players can't realistically get the same control over the angle the stick impacts on the drum head, trad players can go from parallel to the drum head all the way up to nearly ninety degrees. This comes with a few extra advantages:

* A wider range of tones than is achievable in matched.
* Easy ability to use the left stick to "choke" and "bend" a tom by pushing into it. It's very easy to do this pushing straight down the line of the stick in trad grip, whereas in matched you need to tense your hands up more in order to get the same effect.

Both of those are very useful in jazz, hence the continued popularity of the grip there. I agree with your assessment when it comes to rock or progressive playing though, I do feel matched makes a lot more sense in that context.

[Reiste]

I'm mostly a matched grip player, but I like tinkering with traditional on and off. One thing that hasn't been mentioned is that two grips make you think differently.

First time I heard this idea was from a Modern Drummer interview with Thomas Lang. He said that traditional grip helps you to think a bit more "asymmetrically" and independantly. Though that sounds a little abstract, I've really found it to be true. If I practice stuff that really tests my independance (especially polyrhythmic patterns), I find it a bit easier to get it with traditional grip. In fact, I sometimes use that fact to get a pattern in the beginning, and then I can switch to playing it with matched grip more easily.

Anyway, there's an advantage that I thought should be mentioned...

[vince]

I see many of the great drummers on this site and almost all use the traditional grip. Even some of the younger one's use it. I use matched grip and I was wondering:

Does the traditional grip have some advantage that the matched grip doesn't?

Where's a good place online that illustrates how to do traditional grip?

Do you use matched or traditional?

Thanks a lot!

I started to play traditionnal grip since almost a year.
I've found that It brings a better control, especially for double-stroke rolls and technical stuff...
Moreover It's easier to create dynamics. That's just my opinion but I think you should use both, for being a versatile player and know the way It is. Try it and then come back to give us your feeling about It !

[J0llyhunter]

i don't know, i guess when i tried learning trad grip i just got it, it felt so comfortable i thought it was meant for me

[Drummertist]

How do you hold the stick in your hand using trad. grip? Any place I can go to learn this just to have the experience?

[Groove Regulator]

I usually play matched grip with most grooves, but each way of holding the sticks has it's own advantages. I find it very useful to play traditional when I'm playing jazz or some sort of march groove. With these rhythms, there are a lot of ghost strokes added for substance. Ghost strokes are easier to play with traditional because you don't have to lift your hand as much as matched. When you play a march groove traditional, you just let your left hand fall and bounce for the ghost strokes and it sounds awesome. Either way of playing has it advantages, but it all depends on what kind of groove you like. Every groove has its own way of being played and it's up to you how you interpret the rhythm.

[drumbig]

I play mostly matched grip but i agree that playing trad gets you thinking differently so I practice both on the kit and the pad. When i Play like a small coffee shop i will use trad grip just because it helps me play softer.

[onemat]

Way back when in first grade I was taught to hold the sticks in the traditional manner. This was (gulp!) 1961! I didn't really get a first lesson until around 1968 and I was then EXPECTED to play traditional grip. Around 2000 I went back to taking lessons and was instructed to try both grips. These days I play both but mostly traditional. I'm more comfortable and faster playing this way. I do exercises starting with the left to build strength in the left side. ...Matt

[theduke86]

Everything I can say has been covered. Trad is nice for touch on the snare drum, but matched is better because you can match both your hands! That being said, I know and use both grips but I don't use traditional nearly as much anymore. Matched grip is better for me.

[0neyellowdrum]

My first lessons were with a 'jazz, big band' drummer who taught both. I was directed to practice rudiments both ways. Why not learn both? The more tools you have the better you become. It does not make sense to me to limit oneself to either or.

[Casper "DrPowerStroke" Paludan]

I will just add that in order to play loud you need serious flexibility in traditional grip, whereas in matched, it is quite easy to obtain rock'n roll volumes.

Also, about the "touch" thing on the snare drum: I don't really like to hear people sating that they play ghost notes by "dropping the hand". To me, this is a compromise. What I would suggest for people playing either trad or matched is to make sure you are playing an actual stroke no matter what volme you play at, even the softest ones.This is entirely possible and it sounds, to me at least, much better. Good discussion! Cheers, DPS

[aahznightsky]

I will just add that in order to play loud you need serious flexibility in traditional grip, whereas in matched, it is quite easy to obtain rock'n roll volumes.

Also, about the "touch" thing on the snare drum: I don't really like to hear people sating that they play ghost notes by "dropping the hand". To me, this is a compromise. What I would suggest for people playing either trad or matched is to make sure you are playing an actual stroke no matter what volme you play at, even the softest ones.This is entirely possible and it sounds, to me at least, much better. Good discussion! Cheers, DPS


"Dropping the hand" is an actual stroke though! Its just hitting the drum using motion from your arm. Its naturally a bit harder to get a PPPPPP dynamic from using only fingers or so, because if you did use fingers (a rebound technique), the stick would buzzzzzz because you didnt put enough power into the stroke to get it to bounce.

I'm not really arguing though, im just saying that i think dropping the hand is a veritable way to go about small ghost notes. The kind of ghost notes im talking about are like the ones Bernard Purdie does in his shuffle. Maybe it's more "dropping the stick" that seems more appropriate...

good point on flexibility needed for traditional!

[theduke86]

"Dropping the hand" is an actual stroke though! Its just hitting the drum using motion from your arm. Its naturally a bit harder to get a PPPPPP dynamic from using only fingers or so, because if you did use fingers (a rebound technique), the stick would buzzzzzz because you didnt put enough power into the stroke to get it to bounce.

I'm not really arguing though, im just saying that i think dropping the hand is a veritable way to go about small ghost notes. The kind of ghost notes im talking about are like the ones Bernard Purdie does in his shuffle. Maybe it's more "dropping the stick" that seems more appropriate...

good point on flexibility needed for traditional!

Then again, if you're a big masochist, with the finger stroke you could get some serious control going. Practicing quiet and slow is so good for your loud fast playing.

[Darmikalus]

i play traditional whilst keeping beats becasue of my hi-hat placement... i find it has advantage bacasue you can have yout hi hat, and your hand practically anywhere and play traditional comfterbly... i find it alot easier to hit the snare, and it requires less energy.
i also find it easier on the fingers

i use matched for soloing and hard fills, simply becasue i only recently started using traditional. i find you can get more speed and controll whilst doing big technical filsl and such. and of course you get added power for your snare.

[Tomboy]

Personally I think that one can improve simultaneously on both trad and matched grip.I have practiced on both with various rudiment exercises,and it's good to have them evenly matched.The same goes for left-hand and right hand playing,it's good to be able to do with the left as with the right.It produces a more even sound when playing,and applies to the feet as well.Tiger Bill's secret to four way drumming is very helpful,and when used interchangebly on all limbs produces stunning results.Mine at the moment is not perfect yet,but I like the results thus far.It's great when playing to be able to revert from trad to matched at certain points for whatever reason,and keeping the flow while doing so.Opens you to all other possibilities and techniques of playing.

[Peter J]

Whats really interesting is--whether you use one grip or the other you should find that if your a matched player--practicing trad grip will actually help and strengthen your weaker hand and vice versa for trad players--after that it comes down to preference and comfortability as to what your primary grip is

[vince]

My first lessons were with a 'jazz, big band' drummer who taught both. I was directed to practice rudiments both ways. Why not learn both? The more tools you have the better you become. It does not make sense to me to limit oneself to either or.

I totally agree. Why don't use both ? You don't need anything else than your hands, so try, try, try and try again !!

[dunchykong]

I totally agree. Why don't use both ? You don't need anything else than your hands, so try, try, try and try again !!

i agree 20 characters

[rendezvous_drummer]

i use match grip right now because im having trouble with traditional grip but im working on it. I can't get a good hard hit with traditional.

[dothecrunge]

OK I'll just get started with some stuff


MATCHED

+grip for both hands is identical
=good for reversing stickings
=good for open handed playing

- ???


TRADITIONAL

+supposed better nuances and sounds than matched (but I play matched and have the same control I don't understand people that say this) mostly jazz players advocate this

+this is the only real advantage i see of this grip=easy to do crosstick without tricky manipulation of the stick...

-range of motion is decreased. In traditional grip your stick is naturally turned a little more inwards, meaning it overlaps with range from your other hand, annnd you have to turn your arm more to the left in order to reach that direction than you would with matched grip.

-you have to learn totally different grips, techniques, and work different muscles in your two arms.

() originally developed in marching snare drummers who had their drums severely tilted to one side and away from them, so as to not damage their wrists with their left hand's grip. Of course you can still tilt your drums away from you if you want, but thats just a note

Not always. I grip each stick differently.

[OceanDirt]

i've always been a matched grip player, but i tried learning traditional grip for kicks a couple years ago. i never was too serious about it after the first month or two, but i've continued messing around with it and now i find that a lot of times when i'm playing jazz i'll switch back and forth between the grips.

it's actually somewhat unconcious now, but i think it has a lot to do with wanting to get smoother drags. i find traditional grip just lets me drag a little more cleanly. however, just because it's stronger, i used matched grip for choruses and when i play on the toms so i can control my accents.

anyone else do this?

[Massik Kretal]

There are no real pros or cons. No grip is better than the other, but I find that each grip has a different feel to it.

Whem I want to play with a lighter sound or wit more sensistivety I'll switch to traditional and when I feel like playing heavier I play matched.

Its' all feel really.

[DogBreath]

There are no real pros or cons. No grip is better than the other
Did you even bother to read this thread before responding?

[BigCliff]

I most often switch off to Trad grip when wanting to play softly and/or with lots of ghost notes. I think it works better for that sort of playing or when you intentionally want to limit the volume of you snare work. The rest of the time I find it a detriment to moving around the kit and to dynamic range with the left hand.

I think Trad grip makes less sense because my arms look the same, until I contort one into holding a drumsick underhanded. I want my two arms/hands to be eqally able around my kit, and I have yet to figure out how an asymetrical grip aids this intention.

It should be noted that these are the opinions of someone who was taught matched grip from the "get-go" but has tried traditional grip many times to attempt to take advantage of its strengths.

[Zildjian232]

im not so sure anymore about whats better or not.

a couple days ago i was listening to danny carey and todd sucherman. in my opinion they are both very powerfull and amazing drummers. danny carey is very dynamical with the set and flows around the set(if you listen to tool youll know what i mean). he uses matched grip. and todd sucherman is just the same. i saw his video on this site. and he uses traditional. im just stumped on which is better. neil peart used matched, now he is trad. and if i remember correctly bonzo played trad. later in his career. so its not just a jazz thing. seems like its a preferance thing

[Elan Morin Tedronai]

I can open hand play even with tradional grip, but I'm right-handed, so I take the the one stick I'm using on the snare like pen, but otherwise I do not use at all traditional grip. Sometimes I do this at the nearby rehearsal, but I definitely tend to use the matched grup.

I'm open-handed oriented. I mean that despite being strongly right-handed I started teaching myself from the very first begining only to lead with my left hand on the hi-hat and the cymbal.

[Magic Maple]

Thanks everyone for the pros and cons, but i would like to know if anyone could point me to any videos of a demonstration of the traditional grip. Ive been playing match grip for 4 years (the entrie duration of my drumming) and would like to learn traditional.
Thanks

[Massik Kretal]

Did you even bother to read this thread before responding?

Yes I did and I disagree. There really is no Pro's and con's. They are equal.

If they weren't equal then why would someone make matched grip? So they can lose advantages of traditional grip? Exactly. They are equal, but like I said have different feel.

[DogBreath]

No, what you said is there are no pros or cons for either grip, which is of course a ridiculous statement. As to their being equal, two things can be equal in value and yet have completely different uses and applications.

[Massik Kretal]

No, what you said is there are no pros or cons for either grip, which is of course a ridiculous statement. As to their being equal, two things can be equal in value and yet have completely different uses and applications.

Okay first of all I don't see what your saying no to.

Second of all give me examples of how traditonal grip can be equal in "value" but is used for a different application for the better.

[Mckinney]

i am a matched grip player. but i recently have been inspired by drummers who are all traditional. do you think i should switch to traditional? i know its a question that invovles my personal opinoun, but shouldd i switch or stay?

[Katsko]

I play matching grip,even though I know basic traditional grip as I was a marching band drummer for some time...traditional is much harder to me,the only advantage is beeing able to play some interesting stuff on the snare...keep in mind that traditional grip is marching grip..for the set(no offence to the traditional players) it's obsolete...

[Michael G]

Learn to play traditonal grip, all of the greatest drummers (Rich, Bellson, Morello, and drummers today like Lang) know how to play it and is usually their primary grip.

Besides, it looks nice.

[somedrummer]

Uh..huh... You got it buddy. I'll get right on that.

[NUTHA JASON]

actually its a huge debate. i think each person must do what's right for them. matched grip suits me. besides, you may not know this but matched grip is far older than 'trad' grip. trad grip was invented because marching drummers wore their snares on the left hip and it was more comfortable to play the drum with their left elbow down. but before the advent of the marching snare humans were playing with the drum or percussive instrument in front of them (ironically as our kits are today) and so they used matched grips of various kinds. this goes back to prehistory.so what is the real traditional grip?

http://www.contentparadise.com/getimage/13079/1/13079.jpg
to my mind it is illogical to learn the 'trad' grip on a modern kit. the old masters learned it because they came off marching groups and onto dixxie kits etc. or their teachers insisted learning the 'marchin' firs' '. some guys will tell you that trad grip means the left stick is on top of your hand and so easier to articulate with touch and feel. but the truth is a good matched technique allows for this too. in my opinion 'trad' should be obsolete.
but...
if you learned matched stick with it. if you learned trad stick with it. but there are so many more important things you could be learning on drums than wasting a huge amount of precious practice time changing grips and bringing the new grip up to speed with what you already had with your old grip.

j

[Latin Groover]

Hmm good post Jason. I personally believe (and this is my opinion) that the grips are very much even, their advantages and disadvantages weigh it out, although of course there are

situations where one grip is better suited. The obvious example being metal, use matched, there is of course techniques and motions that will allow you too get similar power in this situation

using trad but why do all the work when you can just use matched. But another example is jazz. I play matched for all styles but i will sometimes use trad for jazz, because it allows you

more 'movement for jazz'. What i mean by that is, sometimes i may want to play on using the very tip of the stick, try doing that with matched after some years your going to have some

wrist issues, but using trad... Also there is (i believe) an advantage to playing with better touch in trad because you are holding the stick from underneath, im not saying you have more

'touch' using trad, im saying that i believe it is easier to achieve becaquse you are holding the stick underneath. So to try and shed some light on that, when playing very lightly in

mathced the 'rest position' you have to hold. You play your stroke then you have to hold the stick up, oohh i just got a better anagoly to get my point across. Whats easier, to hold a

basketball from the top, (palming it) or from the bottom, letting it rest on top. So i believe that neither grip is just plain better, i think that there are situations where a grip would be more

'advantagious'(i just made a word, i think). So theres

my view.

[NUTHA JASON]

touche...a good post from ye too LG.

and i totally agree.

i contend that it is a waste of time to learn both grips tho. there is a lot more useful skills to have in your toolbox. time spent relearning a grip could rather be learnt perfecting the various claves for example.
j

[h3r3tic]

Very cool posts guys ;)
But Nutha, I don´t think that traditional grip should be banned or obsolete. I think that what Latin Groove said is just a matter of when the player needs to use which grip and depending on the musical situation.
I use both grips but like I said it´s just a matter of musical situation :)
And yes Nutha, there are lots of better things to learn instead of relearning grip :)
Peace ;)

[Womble]

i contend that it is a waste of time to learn both grips tho. there is a lot more useful skills to have in your toolbox. time spent relearning a grip could rather be learnt perfecting the various claves for example.
j

And how many hours have you spent practising stick tricks?

Learning trad grip can be a great way of reboosting your interest in the drums, if you've hit a stale patch. It may also make you think more about the mechanics of stick movement, and may inspire a more focused concentration on technique. Plus, it's always good to look at things from a different angle occasionally.

All the heavy cats can play both grips anyway. This isn't because they've spent years working on each grip individually, but because one grip improves the other, and vice-versa. As Morello demonstates on his video, and Freddy Gruber on Weckl's, trad and matched are actually very closely related. It's all the same muscles in use whichever way you play.

p.s. sorry for using the word 'cats', it won't happen again.

[moe.ron]

i personally can play both fairly well but i usually only use matched because it feels a little more comfortable. however for jazz and some shuffle material i use trad, i don't know why it just feels better i guess

[NUTHA JASON]

And how many hours have you spent practising stick tricks?


behind a kit? none. stick spinning is for down time only for me.
miawo!

h3r3tic, i never said such a thing. read my posts carefully.

[vadrum]

i like both grips. i primarily play trad grip though. dont use matched that much. i think they are both effective grips and your choice on which to use is entirely personal. i dont believe that the choice has a huge impact on your playing, however, i do believe certain motions are more natural using one or the other.

more interesting and challenging is to learn to play everything left handed as well as right handed. (i.e. turn your kits backwards)

i remember my instructor telling me that back in the day, in order to keep the more suspect players from sitting in, all the top drummers in the hampton/norfolk area started to play left handed. so if you wanted to play, or sit in, you had to learn to play left handed. rough.....and to that end, using matched grip would cut down on the work involved.

[h3r3tic]

behind a kit? none. stick spinning is for down time only for me.
miawo!

h3r3tic, i never said such a thing. read my posts carefully.

Ok, sorry about the "banned" word. I do know that you didn´t post that word.
But you did say that trad should be obsolete.

It should never be obsolete. But hey... it´s just my opinion;)
Sorry about the misunderstanding :)
Peace

[jazzsnob]

Switching to traditional helped me a lot, even though I had some technique already with matched. My singles were pretty solid, but my doubles were weak and my posture sucked, so I started with traditional with my teacher from the very beginning. Worked out great for me(totally worth the time), double strokes are better because I really learned them correctly(I didn't just rework my left hand), my singles are much better and I'm more comfortable around the set. I think traditional grip works great for a standard four-piece drum set-up, which I really enjoy.

Traditional IS useless if you have a giant symetrical drumkit and play open handed and have tons of toms all in weird orders and stuff, but you know, it's not like there's a law about it, so I'll just keep playing tradtional and anyone who doesn't want to doesn't have to.




I think some people get too up in arms about this.

[finnhiggins]

Keep the smooth-jazz tradition alive!

[theduke86]

I just saw Bill Stewart play a solo concert with brushes and everything for an hour completely matched. I am now convinced that you can do anything both ways...
except seeing a great be bop drummer shred a few choruses on an uptempo standard with trad is pretty darn cool. It does look cool.

[jazzsnob]

For some reason I remember seeing Kenny G's in a commercial or something and he was using matched.

...








Why does jazz have to be smooth all the time? IT'S DIRTY RAW ASS SLAMMIN' STRIP CLUB MUSIC PEOPLE! IT'S AWESOME! DON'T RUIN IT!

[gusty]

Learn to play traditonal grip, all of the greatest drummers (Rich, Bellson, Morello, and drummers today like Lang) know how to play it and is usually their primary grip.

Besides, it looks nice.

so you come here, first post, and tell us to play trad grip cause 'all' of the great drummers do. well, sorry to burst your bubble but your wrong.

and good post NJ

[jazzsnob]

Thinking about your post gusty, this thread actually does seem a little detrimental to the cause of traditional grip.

[dizkneelande]

Keep the smooth-jazz tradition alive!

amen brother amen

20 chars

[gusty]

Thinking about your post gusty, this thread actually does seem a little detrimental to the cause of traditional grip.

hmm, dont know what detrimental means, but yeah you get that
I wrote an equation for it (a=australian, d=drummer, be=bad english)

a+d=2be

hmm yer i like maths though

[Auger]

Keep the smooth-jazz tradition alive!

Right On Finn!! I totally feel it!

[jazzsnob]

hmm, dont know what detrimental means, but yeah you get that
I wrote an equation for it (a=australian, d=drummer, be=bad english)

a+d=2be

hmm yer i like maths though




www.dict.org


a good website for english

[drumroll888]

I use both, and with Trad, both hands are different, and it I think and play differently than with matched. I play a little more looser. I try not to overthink the technical reasons or machinations behind it. I just kind of go with it. I like the use of the fingers and the turning of the wrists to make strokes with trad also, and I can get a pretty powerful stoke with trad too.

But, it's harder to play open-handed with trad grip, since I have toms and a ride off to my left.

Hell, I have 2 hands (thank God), so I might as well get the most out of them.

[h3r3tic]

I use both, and with Trad, both hands are different, and it I think and play differently than with matched. I play a little more looser. I try not to overthink the technical reasons or machinations behind it. I just kind of go with it. I like the use of the fingers and the turning of the wrists to make strokes with trad also, and I can get a pretty powerful stoke with trad too.

But, it's harder to play open-handed with trad grip, since I have toms and a ride off to my left.

Hell, I have 2 hands (thank God), so I might as well get the most out of them.

Yeah bro, Traditional in open-handed sounds really dificult

[StimJunkie]

hey all. new to these forum jobbies, was just catching up on your conversation here.

my opinion on the whole 'matched vs trad' would be... learn both. i'm of the belief these trivial kind of things that people get hung up on, matched vs trad, or heel up vs heel down or whatever technique you use. i'd just say embrace it all and enjoy them, after all these are your tools for playing, like a plumber with wrenches etc. use them for whatever the situation may be...

i think through out a gig i use both matched and trad... as previously stated, for softer stuff it's easier to find some quiet nuance with trad, but when things really start rockin' its easier to move about your kit with the old matched grip, but then again this is just me... lang, weckl, colaiuta, buddy, louis, roach, williams, gadd... all those guys have their own way of playing... it just comes down to whats easiest for yourself

[tajtonic]

i personally switch between them... tony williams used to say that he liked to have the difference between the hands to make each side sound unique.. also there are certain stylistic things in both traditional and matched grip.. there's a whole library of licks and techniques in the traditional style and the matched style... why limit yourself to just one type of playing?

[Michael G]

Learn to play traditonal grip, all of the greatest drummers (Rich, Bellson, Morello, and drummers today like Lang) know how to play it and is usually their primary grip.

Besides, it looks nice.

See, this is why old threads shouldn't be bumped.

Let it die so I can hide my shame of how I use to think.

[sssssssss]

Each has its advantages and disadvantages... Steve Smith has an extremely useful section about this matter on his Technique DVD. The basic idea is both work, each of them works without correlating it to the other, and it's not much more than an emotional decision.
Matched grip is the natural way to do it and you inevitably have to learn it for your leading hand; however, for me, understanding rebound and playing by using the rebound instead of fighting it was done by first understanding how traditional grip works.
As far as health goes, matched grip is a much healthier grip - reason being traditional grip started with the marching bands, when the drum hung at a certain angle which made matched grip playing impossible. Physically, the traditional grip insinuates that either your left side of the drum (or drumkit!) is higher than the right side (for right-handed people), or your left side of the body will have to go lower than the right side, which will bend your back iremediably. So, if you want to use traditional, it's improtant to set your drums up kind of the way Weckl does (you can easily see the entire left side of his kit is much higher than the right, they're all angled from left to right), or Steve Smith and Jojo Mayer, who also set certain weird angles for their drums that you won't ever need for matched.
It also depends on the style of music you're playing - Steve Smith explained why traditional grip is more of a light grip.

[Raymond Bloom]

I find it easier to separate my right and left hands when the techniques are different, for some reason.
The same here, that could be 100% true that our brains can separate each limb more easily if we're using two different grips, but I'm not a specialist about this stuff, BUT I find that this is an advantage for me, too!

some thoughts:

1) matched and traditional grips are different so it's just logical that some stuff is more easy to play with trad or matched
2) matched grip is more straight as opposed to traditional which is a rotation motion, this gives an advantage for accents
3) the sound is different, and it's more easy to produce different type of sounds because of the angle of the stick
4) with traditional grip the hand is under the stick, with matched grip - over the stick, this also gives an advantage for each of the grips


for me the main reason: symmetry is boring!

[abe]

The same here, that could be 100% true that our brains can separate each limb more easily if we're using two different grips, but I'm not a specialist about this stuff, BUT I find that this is an advantage for me, too!

some thoughts:

1) matched and traditional grips are different so it's just logical that some stuff is more easy to play with trad or matched
2) matched grip is more straight as opposed to traditional which is a rotation motion, this gives an advantage for accents
3) the sound is different, and it's more easy to produce different type of sounds because of the angle of the stick
4) with traditional grip the hand is under the stick, with matched grip - over the stick, this also gives an advantage for each of the grips


for me the main reason: symmetry is boring!


You mean boring in terms of musical ideas that you can express with it or just pure feel?

[abe]

Each has its advantages and disadvantages... Steve Smith has an extremely useful section about this matter on his Technique DVD. The basic idea is both work, each of them works without correlating it to the other, and it's not much more than an emotional decision.
Matched grip is the natural way to do it and you inevitably have to learn it for your leading hand; however, for me, understanding rebound and playing by using the rebound instead of fighting it was done by first understanding how traditional grip works.
As far as health goes, matched grip is a much healthier grip - reason being traditional grip started with the marching bands, when the drum hung at a certain angle which made matched grip playing impossible. Physically, the traditional grip insinuates that either your left side of the drum (or drumkit!) is higher than the right side (for right-handed people), or your left side of the body will have to go lower than the right side, which will bend your back iremediably. So, if you want to use traditional, it's improtant to set your drums up kind of the way Weckl does (you can easily see the entire left side of his kit is much higher than the right, they're all angled from left to right), or Steve Smith and Jojo Mayer, who also set certain weird angles for their drums that you won't ever need for matched.
It also depends on the style of music you're playing - Steve Smith explained why traditional grip is more of a light grip.

Actually, Weckl in his early instructional video was sitting with his left side leaning. I guess he started to angle his drums because of it though I can be wrong about reasons.

[Deltadrummer]

Physically, the traditional grip insinuates that either your left side of the drum (or drumkit!) is higher than the right side (for right-handed people), or your left side of the body will have to go lower than the right side, which will bend your back irremediably. So, if you want to use traditional, it's important to set your drums up kind of the way Weckl does (you can easily see the entire left side of his kit is much higher than the right, they're all angled from left to right), or Steve Smith and Jojo Mayer, who also set certain weird angles for their drums that you won't ever need for matched.
It also depends on the style of music you're playing - Steve Smith explained why traditional grip is more of a light grip.


I think you've said a mouthful, uh post-ful here. If you are playing a 4 pc trap kit, like Jojo, it may not be as much of an issue. But once you add a second and third mounted tom, it is an issue with your back. Matched just grants easier access around the kit. Weckl does look uncomfortable.

The nuance difference in the sound between the two is not going to be something that you hear through a mix anyway.

I don't get the rebound part but if it worked for you whose to knock it. I used to sometimes switch to a traditional during a jazz passage; but now I just play matched all the way.