Left hand finger technique

[Gyrefalcon]

I am having trouble getting the left hand (traditional grip) finger stroke correct. I have been using the Jojo Mayer DVD, and I can do his 6 o'clock version of it well, but whenever I try to move it to the normal position, I can't get the right angle on the stroke; it ends up slicing against the drum head and I can't maintain it for more than one or two strokes.

I have my snare angled away from me and I have tried repositioning it, but I still can get the correct angle with my hand.

Are there any tricks to it, or should I keep practicing at the 6 o'clock position? Are their any videos that go more in depth with it?

[Ian Ballard]

I dunno about "6 o'clock" position, or whatever. I don't really get into the new wave chops guys.... not that JoJo isn't awesome, but there are innumerable videos on YouTube, from an equal number of people showing traditional grip. You should never take advice from one source. Take your info from many, and form the best grip that works for you... same thing with tom positioning. After playing for some time, I re-learned how to hold sticks from Jim Riley, an amazing player and drummer for Rascal Flatts. But, frankly, I don't agree with his technique anymore after a decade. That's from real experience and my own personal body and technique.

I have had flat snares, "away" snares, and angled towards snares, and I've been able to adapt good finger bound regardless. There are advantages to all of them and you pick the one that makes your PLAYING easier, not just finger technique. I find angled-away snare make tom playing a bit harder to do... for me. Steve Smith, however finds no problems, etc, etc...

You have to establish a "relationship" with the stick, and a solid fulcrum before you can even try to deal with finger technique. Once you can play strokes with just the "thumb crotch" fulcrum, you then start using either just your index finger or both index and middle fingers to keep the stick bouncing. This involves some trial and error.

I'd suggest you type "traditional grip" into YouTube, watch as many as you can, practice what works for you and arrive at your own version. My technique is closest to Vinnie's, but that does not mean it's the "best". It just works for me.

[Gyrefalcon]

I dunno about "6 o'clock" position, or whatever. I don't really get into the new wave chops guys.... not that JoJo isn't awesome, but there are innumerable videos on YouTube, from an equal number of people showing traditional grip. You should never take advice from one source. Take your info from many, and form the best grip that works for you... same thing with tom positioning. After playing for some time, I re-learned how to hold sticks from Jim Riley, an amazing player and drummer for Rascal Flatts. But, frankly, I don't agree with his technique anymore after a decade. That's from real experience and my own personal body and technique.

I have had flat snares, "away" snares, and angled towards snares, and I've been able to adapt good finger bound regardless. There are advantages to all of them and you pick the one that makes your PLAYING easier, not just finger technique. I find angled-away snare make tom playing a bit harder to do... for me. Steve Smith, however finds no problems, etc, etc...

You have to establish a "relationship" with the stick, and a solid fulcrum before you can even try to deal with finger technique. Once you can play strokes with just the "thumb crotch" fulcrum, you then start using either just your index finger or both index and middle fingers to keep the stick bouncing. This involves some trial and error.

I'd suggest you type "traditional grip" into YouTube, watch as many as you can, practice what works for you and arrive at your own version. My technique is closest to Vinnie's, but that does not mean it's the "best". It just works for me.



I can use traditional grip well, that isn't the problem I am having. I am having a problem with the finger technique like you see in this video (you can see it at 2:00) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_mFVRX08rEc

I can't get the correct angle on it, I always end up pulling the stick towards me, instead of to the head.

[Ian Ballard]

I can use traditional grip well, that isn't the problem I am having. I am having a problem with the finger technique like you see in this video (you can see it at 2:00) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_mFVRX08rEc

I can't get the correct angle on it, I always end up pulling the stick towards me, instead of to the head.

You cannot "use traditional grip well", if you struggle with basic finger control, unless you are Jack DeJohnette, who uses only fulcrum.

If you have a good, solid fulcrum, the thumb and "crotch" of the hand should help guide the stick in the correct up and down motion, to prevent it flying off into space.

There, Art is positioning his hand, so that when his finger bounces the stick, it is directly up and down, relative to the position of the stick in his fulcrum. This requires him to sit with his left shoulder angled lower than his right. I'm not sure that's good for posture, but it works for him. But regardless, you have to create a continuum of up and down motion in the same line, with your finger(s) bouncing the stick. It starts with having the balance point, setting up a firm but not tight fulcrum, and lots of practice.

[mosher]

this is a good view of art's left hand
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W4ZVaNvNbEk

[Gyrefalcon]

You cannot "use traditional grip well", if you struggle with basic finger control, unless you are Jack DeJohnette, who uses only fulcrum.

If you have a good, solid fulcrum, the thumb and "crotch" of the hand should help guide the stick in the correct up and down motion, to prevent it flying off into space.

There, Art is positioning his hand, so that when his finger bounces the stick, it is directly up and down, relative to the position of the stick in his fulcrum. This requires him to sit with his left shoulder angled lower than his right. I'm not sure that's good for posture, but it works for him. But regardless, you have to create a continuum of up and down motion in the same line, with your finger(s) bouncing the stick. It starts with having the balance point, setting up a firm but not tight fulcrum, and lots of practice.

It is only the use of the pointer and middle finger in that movie that I am having trouble with, I can do free strokes with my left hand just fine; I just can't get the finger bounce correct (I can get the bounce with my thumb, but not the finger bounce in those videos).

[Ian Ballard]

It is only the use of the pointer and middle finger in that movie that I am having trouble with, I can do free strokes with my left hand just fine; I just can't get the finger bounce correct (I can get the bounce with my thumb, but not the finger bounce in those videos).

Well, at this stage, there is nothing any of us can do in type, that can help you. You just need to work on making the stick bounce, or seek a private instructor who is proficient in traditional grip who can help in all 3 dimensions. ;)

[mattsmith]

I dunno about "6 o'clock" position, or whatever. I don't really get into the new wave chops guys.... not that JoJo isn't awesome, but there are innumerable videos on YouTube, from an equal number of people showing traditional grip. You should never take advice from one source. Take your info from many, and form the best grip that works for you... same thing with tom positioning. After playing for some time, I re-learned how to hold sticks from Jim Riley, an amazing player and drummer for Rascal Flatts. But, frankly, I don't agree with his technique anymore after a decade. That's from real experience and my own personal body and technique.

I have had flat snares, "away" snares, and angled towards snares, and I've been able to adapt good finger bound regardless. There are advantages to all of them and you pick the one that makes your PLAYING easier, not just finger technique. I find angled-away snare make tom playing a bit harder to do... for me. Steve Smith, however finds no problems, etc, etc...

You have to establish a "relationship" with the stick, and a solid fulcrum before you can even try to deal with finger technique. Once you can play strokes with just the "thumb crotch" fulcrum, you then start using either just your index finger or both index and middle fingers to keep the stick bouncing. This involves some trial and error.

I'd suggest you type "traditional grip" into YouTube, watch as many as you can, practice what works for you and arrive at your own version. My technique is closest to Vinnie's, but that does not mean it's the "best". It just works for me.
This is fantastic advice. You have to come up with the traditional grip that works for you, and it's a very individual thing.

I too am shocked with how the majority of learning drummers have thrown out everything previously known, and are concentrating entirely on Jojo Mayer. I agree with Ian. Mayer is incredible, but I cannot believe he wants everyone to do everything in relation to grip exactly as he does, every single time, without exception. I think he is merely establishing good basic skills, habits, and ground rules, not a literal interpretation of everything associated with him. He has become the new Chuck Norris of drumming, and I'm not sure this was the original purpose of what is a great video.

You cannot "use traditional grip well", if you struggle with basic finger control, unless you are Jack DeJohnette, who uses only fulcrum..
Also dead on true. Traditional grip finger control issues have to become as routine as the instinct required to blink your eyes without thinking.

Well, at this stage, there is nothing any of us can do in type, that can help you. You just need to work on making the stick bounce, or seek a private instructor who is proficient in traditional grip who can help in all 3 dimensions. ;) .
Ian for the win.

[Ian Ballard]

He has become the new Chuck Norris of drumming

LOL!

QUOTE
OF
THE
DAY!

8^)

[mosher]

I never saw a drummer have so much impact on drumming technique like Jo Jo Mayer since his dvd came out
Matt is right when he said drummers dropped all they know to switch to Jo Jo's technique

[Ian Ballard]

I never saw a drummer have so much impact on drumming technique like Jo Jo Mayer since his dvd came out
Matt is right when he said drummers dropped all they know to switch to Jo Jo's technique

Does his techniques make you a better musician, or do they allow you to have "OMGWTFBBQ CHOPS!"?

I don't believe they are the same thing.

JoJo Mayer is not going to go out and take you to open jams, put adds in papers looking for musicians or give you a better pocket.

Sorry to be a Heretic, but I never asked for a drum savior and he falls far short, even I did.

Music is my master. Period.

;)

[Ben Tormey]

JoJo Mayer invented a rudiment that can only be played with roundhouse kicks.

[mosher]

what is roundhouse kicks?

[k3ng]

Jojo = Chuck Norris. Now there's a comparison.

[mosher]

weckl's back to basics and how to practice videos has the best info on finger technique
even has info on the buddy rich one handed rolls

[Toby_Jackson]

Does his techniques make you a better musician, or do they allow you to have "OMGWTFBBQ CHOPS!"?

I don't believe they are the same thing.

JoJo Mayer is not going to go out and take you to open jams, put adds in papers looking for musicians or give you a better pocket.

Sorry to be a Heretic, but I never asked for a drum savior and he falls far short, even I did.

Music is my master. Period.

;)

Just to clarify - Jojo states very clearly in the opening of Secret Weapons that these things are not his purpose. His dvd is "an encyclopedia" of physical concepts and techniques he has encountered, and is quite focused in this regard, choosing to leave questions of their use in an actual musical setting open to the viewer.