Trouble with Double Strokes/Paradiddles

[abouzek]

Hey everyone, I figured here at DrummerWorld would be a good place to post this video, as you all probably know more than I do on this subject. I have taken a video of me playing paradiddles, double stroke rolls, and single stroke rolls where you can see my individual hand technique.

Video is here (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5v0wss-wKrM) (Video is updated to be better quality now)

The problem is, my left hand is lagging behind, and I don't know whether it is weaker than my right (I am right handed), or if it is bad technique.

I do not have a teacher to tell me about stick control and technique, so I have been self-taught and just have been playing other artist's songs since the beginning of my playing. I have not been working on technique, although I have been a drummer for around 2 years now. I have just now realized the importance of having great stick control and now I am going back and learning all of the rudiments and practicing the first pages of Stick Control religiously every day.

Please post your criticisms in here! I really want to know what the issue is. This is holding me back!

Thanks in advance

[Ironcobra]

Are you having similar problems with your left foot? (If you play double bass)

Try working on your left hand independently of your right and focus on really increasing the speed without messing up. I have similar problems when I start getting at higher speeds on the double bass and when I'm doing doubles with my hands. Another thing you can do, which is difficult, is play as a lefty. Train your brain to work that side of the body. Completely reverse your kit around and play so that your left hand is on the hi-hat etc. I did this for a few days, and it helped a bit, but a few days isn't enough to voice a proper opinion about the technique. Worth a shot though! (you might have a bit of fun playing like an idiot!)

[abouzek]

Nah, I don't play double bass. I've been working with my left hand on a pillow while my right is on the pad for a little while, playing various exercises. Did you see anything wrong with my technique at all? And also, I don't think I will switch my kit's orientation around, but I will air-drum various things to make my mind work like that, it sounds like it may be good for me.

The problem is mainly with the paradiddles, they are terrible on my left hand.

[Wavelength]

The first thing to do is to develop the correct technique for playing single strokes, and that would be the free stroke (or Gladstone technique). Start with your stick in a vertical position. Throw your stick towards the pad and immediately relax your wrist and fingers. The stick naturally wants to rebound back up, and relaxing your fingers and wrist will

- keep your hand in the down position after the stroke
- open your fingers in order to follow the rebound.

Make sure that the stick rebounds all the way up -- you don't want to stop it mid-way. Use a sharp throwing motion so that the stick gains enough momentum to actually rebound back up. Keep repeating the stroke (vertical position, throw down, relax, rewind...) very slowly, until you get the feel for the rebound. Then you can start doing consecutive strokes, following the rebound with your wrist and fingers. Practice the stroke with each hand individually first. It will take a few days to sink in.

[caddywumpus]

I agree with wavelength. I would add this...

Good technique on the drum starts with good single stroke technique. It appeared to me (when your hands turned to the side) that you're actually letting the stick "bounce" during the double strokes. It's called a double "stroke" for a reason--there are two distinct strokes, not a stroke followed by its bounce. The reason for this is that if you let the sticks bounce, the second (and third, fourth, and so on) hit on the drum will never be as loud as the first. When you can do two individual strokes that sound EXACTLY the same, then you will have conquered the double stroke.

A good exercise is to play singles and then try to get your doubles to sound EXACTLY the same (which is easier to do if your sticks have the same pitch--get a good pair for practicing with only). It works, and it takes time to build up consistency, control, and eventually speed (which should always come last).

Hope this helps. Good luck!

[aydee]

First off, there a problem with the way you shot your video.

1) You are playing standing up so the levers of your shoulder, elbows, wrists, fingers aren't in the position they would be if you were actually playing. Your hands seem unnecessarily tense because of this.

2) When it comes to hand technique, I would listen very carefully to a few people on on this forum. Wavelength is one of them.

[Therma lobsterdore]

Yeah listen to wavelength, then once your comfortable with the freestroke look into the push/pull (also called open/close) technique for doing your doubles, diddles and whatnot

[Ben Tormey]

A great way to develop the doubles and paradiddles is to add in accents. For instance playing rLrRlRlL or rRlLrRlL, this also brings in the natural whipping motion and helps you keep the doubles even.

[jasonrhcp]

abouzek

There are some great video clips on this site to watch , because its better to see than to talk about it..

Check out Pat Petrillo's page here for clips..His "Hands, Grooves, & Fills" has alot of simple and effective exercises for your technique..very relaxed and smooth.

Here's a clip

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BmXkEeoZxw0

Wavelength is on point as well.

J

[Therma lobsterdore]

You mind find this Dave weckl video helpful mister OP...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GUPu9yA_-7Q&feature=related

Check out the other video's in the series too

[Diaz]

For some of the rudiments isolate the hands and practice that a little bit for example in paradiddles play your right hand on the pad, say left hand on the pillow and figure out what you right hand and only right hand is doing and practice that by itself, and vice-versa.

[abouzek]

I agree with wavelength. I would add this...

Good technique on the drum starts with good single stroke technique. It appeared to me (when your hands turned to the side) that you're actually letting the stick "bounce" during the double strokes.

I know for a fact that I play both strokes with my right hand, and I know that I don't with my let. I'm having trouble with the free stroke on my left. Any tips?

[B.C.]

In the video ecspecially on the doubles you are accenting more with your right. When you practice try to focus on accenting more so with you left hand, or raise the stick height of your left hand. you will get use to using more force with your left hand. then after doing this later during your daily practice go to normal double strokes and don't focus on accessing the left hand. The stick heights and accents will even out eventually when you build strength in you left hand.

[Wavelength]

I'm having trouble with the free stroke on my left. Any tips?

Practice the 2-50 exercise for a few weeks. The exercise goes as follows:

- Set your metronome to 100 bpm
- Play two measures of quarter note full strokes with your weak hand, then two measures of quarter notes with your strong hand. Keep the opposing stick in a vertical position when the other one is playing.
- Repeat last phase, but instead of two measures, play four measures with each hand
- Repeat the procedure, always adding two more measures, until you reach fifty
- If you drop a stick or lose count, start over
- Practicing with a mirror is advised, because it makes it easier to find discrepancies in your form
- Relax!
- Raise the tempo only when you can play throughout the exercise in a consistent and relaxed manner

[FunkRaft]

Are your strokes moving in an identical pattern(same height, same arc, same force applied)? I found that practicing in front of a mirror helped me pay more attention to the distance the stick is traveling. Keep a note on where your hands are holding the sticks as well, try to keep them at the same fulcrum point.

Hope this helps

Justin

[yenraBdellikI]

I agree with wavelength. I would add this...

... It's called a double "stroke" for a reason--there are two distinct strokes, not a stroke followed by its bounce. The reason for this is that if you let the sticks bounce, the second (and third, fourth, and so on) hit on the drum will never be as loud as the first. When you can do two individual strokes that sound EXACTLY the same, then you will have conquered the double stroke....

I gotta disagree a little bit there. Playing 2 distinct strokes and playing a diddle are two very different things. Playing 2 strokes is, well, playing 2 strokes - the wrist moves up and down, up and down. A diddle/ double bounce/ whatever is a completely different thing. It involves one motion of the wrist, followed by a bounce. It's true that the second hit, by definiton, won't be as loud, but part of mastering the technique is working on getting it as close as possible.

Just a clarification, and I don't mean any hostility by it :)

[brittc89]

The first thing to do is to develop the correct technique for playing single strokes, and that would be the free stroke (or Gladstone technique). Start with your stick in a vertical position. Throw your stick towards the pad and immediately relax your wrist and fingers. The stick naturally wants to rebound back up, and relaxing your fingers and wrist will

- keep your hand in the down position after the stroke
- open your fingers in order to follow the rebound.

Make sure that the stick rebounds all the way up -- you don't want to stop it mid-way. Use a sharp throwing motion so that the stick gains enough momentum to actually rebound back up. Keep repeating the stroke (vertical position, throw down, relax, rewind...) very slowly, until you get the feel for the rebound. Then you can start doing consecutive strokes, following the rebound with your wrist and fingers. Practice the stroke with each hand individually first. It will take a few days to sink in.

I know Im gonna get jumped on for this, but Im gonna say it anyways. I think the drum community has begun to put too much emphasis on the different techniques with "names" lets say. I know I really never practiced the free stroke. I just played. A lot. And what was easiest and most natural and produced the best results I stuck with. Im not saying its good, I probably dont have anywhere near the hand technique that wavelength does and to be honest, the poster would probably be much better off with your advice than anything I could suggest.

I just feel like we get hung up on this stuff and a lot of times end up proclaiming it dogmatic law. To each his own. If you find something that works for you and doesnt hurt, go with it. Maybe thats awful advice. I dont really know. I just know thats what I did and Ive never had any trouble with my hands. I bypassed moeller and gladstone and all that and just played a lot (granted I had a teacher to steer me along to some extent but Im just really finding out what this technical jargon means) and I just naturally found a technique that is in essence an amalgamation of a lot of things that worked for me and felt comfortable.

I watched the video. My immediate response was youre too tense. You grip is to tight, I can see your forearms really working and you seemed to be trying to work every single note with your wrists alone.Let the stick free up in your hands a bit and let your fingers do more work whipping that second stroke than your wrists. Thats my advice, but to be honest, like I said before, youd probably be better off with wavelengths advice, just what I noticed.