Simon Phillips

[jamsjr44]

I told some of you I would post one of his songs from his 1988 CD Protocol. The name of this song is Protocol. I love Simon Phillips he was one of the first to really get me into double bass drumming. Ever since I heard him do double bass on Give Blood by Pete Townsend I was hooked.

ENJOY!

http://newenglandsoftball.bizland.com/simon_phillips.htm

[Damon Dapper]

Simon has been an absolute inspiration to me for over 20 years, and is the reason I switched to playing open-handed style.

Give Blood is the ultimate Drummers groove and Simon certainly defines what groove in the pocket is all about, especially the live version of Give Blood is incredible man! Also the live version of "Second Hand Love" from Pete Townsend has Simon laying down serious illegal chops man!

I have both of his instructional videos for almost 10 years now and I still learn so much from his unique approach and machine-like accuracy. His videos are not just instructional but fun to listen and watch, Simon tells it like it is.

One aspect I love and respect about both videos, is that he never talks about his open-handed style. Simon is all action and execute, and through this approach the rythm educates you about the open-handed method, not words.

Brilliance is the man.

Simon Phillips.

dap.

[radeq]

Finaly

one of my favorite drummers :) I love his album he did with the Toto - livefields - especialy the 6 song - dave's gone fishing it's incredible... :D

[jamsjr44]

I agree with all of you...Alot of drummers I think sometimes get more credit than they deserve for what they bought to the table. I just think he never has been given the acclaim for his playing. I have a live drum solo of his I will post as well later on this week and it is great. Just the way he approaches it musically and technically is awesome.

[Robin]

To bump up this thread up - Simon Phillips have been one of my main influences for many years. He has the ability to play these amazing solos and songs ( open handed! ) and still be able to sit back and groove. I just love his style. And he plays sooo many styles! Fusion, Rock, Hardrock, jazz....

[mlehnertz]

Dave's Gone Skiing (http://www.lehnertz.com/Toto - Dave's Gone Skiing (Live).mp3)

Is this the album that has V8 on it? I remember getting that as an insert in Modern Drummer. Good tune.

What is this open-handed style?

Finaly

one of my favorite drummers :) I love his album he did with the Toto - livefields - especialy the 6 song - dave's gone fishing it's incredible... :D

[Robin]

Dave's Gone Skiing (http://www.lehnertz.com/Toto - Dave's Gone Skiing (Live).mp3)

Is this the album that has V8 on it? I remember getting that as an insert in Modern Drummer. Good tune.

What is this open-handed style?
The song you posted is actually from the Toto album Tambu released in 1995. This is taken from a live recording from 1997.

Open handed is a special playing where you're playing the hihat with the left hand instead of the right and the snare with the right instead of the left. When you do that, you usually play the ride at the left side too.

http://www.simon-phillips.com/equipment/images/drumkitgreen3.jpg
This is Simon Phillips' kit and as you can see, the hihat is VERY low and the ride is at the left. It was Simon that inspired me to play the same way.

[mlehnertz]

So that's what they call that. I've known for years that Simon had the ability to do that but I didn't know what it was called.

I've seen Simon half a dozen times and I never paid much attention to where his ride cymbal was (is). Interesting placement. Next time I see Toto I'll pay attention.


Open handed is a special playing where you're playing the hihat with the left hand instead of the right and the snare with the right instead of the left. When you do that, you usually play the ride at the left side too.

http://www.simon-phillips.com/equipment/images/drumkitgreen3.jpg
This is Simon Phillips' kit and as you can see, the hihat is VERY low and the ride is at the left. It was Simon that inspired me to play the same way.

[Thinshells]

Simon is an awesome big kit drummer. He does it all, very versatile, and widely recorded.
Always cool tama kits as well.
http://www.clauslegarth.com/bilder/simon_phillips2_big.jpg
http://velopassion.free.fr/Simon%20Phillips.jpg
http://www.ifnet.or.jp/%7Eeiichi.t/simon/simon1980.jpg
http://www.drumside.com/drummer/simon_2.jpg

[Robin]

Yeah. his set is way cool. And I love the fact that when he plays jazz with his own band, He changes the entire kit and plays the normal way! ( hihat with right and snare with left ). He also changes the ride cymbal to the right. Amazing how he can just change and play the other way too.

[mlehnertz]

Interesting observation - he's been playing that green set for at least 4 years now.

[Robin]

Hey everybody. Here is a link to a Simon Phillips solo played on a Toto gig in switzerland summer 2004. I had to cut away like 4 minutes of this solo because it was way to big.

PS. TOTO keyboardist Greg Phillinganes joins Simon on stage with a snare at the end for a little rudiment! Very cool!

SOLO :
http://www.youtube.com/?v=ZIUzEtxDHkQ.

[pete_on_drums]

nice video
hes really good
does anyone know what snare he is using?

[Robin]

nice video
hes really good
does anyone know what snare he is using?
His main snare is a "Signature "Gladiator" Snare Drum 5-1/2" x 14" and the one at the octobans is a "Signature "Pagaent" Snare Drum 5" x 12"

[JPDrum]

For folks who have been wondering about the Simon Phillips kit situation here is a bit of information. He is currently using a new Tama Bubinga kit in his new recording studio. The link on this thread will take you to a Japanese site for Sugi Guitars. The site has pictures of a recording session being done to demo the guitars, as well as control room pictures and photos of Simon behind the kit.

The nice surprise is that at the site you can download three MP3s of the session and get almost 15 minutes worth of free music. The tracks sound nice and Simon's drums, as usual, sound terrific.

Simon said at a drum clinic, in MIchigan last April, that he wasn't sure what would he would be using when the 2006 Toto tour hits the road in support of the new "Falling In Between" recording. Don't be surprised if the huge kit has a new look considering what he is using in his studio.

Si Rules!!!!!! Enjoy the music!

J P

http://www.rosso-jp.com/news/index.html

[Robin]

Simon was out recently on a drumclinic tour in Asia and he used his new Bubinga kit ( I THINK ), he also removed the Gong Drum & the 4 octobans which is a shame.

Here is the link to several videos of Simon doing his clinic in Asia 2005. The videos needs extremely much time to load but they are very cool!!!
http://cosmosmusic.com/service/info/bbs_mov_event.jsp?actionflag=read&pk_idx=56

http://cosmosmusic.com/images/concept/mail/0511/images/simon_41.jpg

[sound zap]

Does Simon still use two bass drums or double pedals now?

[mlehnertz]

Two bass drums the last time I saw him - which was only a year ago.

[Robin]

He always use it ( except when he does gigs with his local jazz band. Then he changes his whole kit and only uses 1 bassdrum.]

[JPDrum]

Simon was out recently on a drumclinic tour in Asia and he used his new Bubinga kit ( I THINK ), he also removed the Gong Drum & the 4 octobans which is a shame.

Here is the link to several videos of Simon doing his clinic in Asia 2005. The videos needs extremely much time to load but they are very cool!!!
http://cosmosmusic.com/service/info/bbs_mov_event.jsp?actionflag=read&pk_idx=56

http://cosmosmusic.com/images/concept/mail/0511/images/simon_41.jpg

Hi Robin

Thanks for the video link. Very cool stuff. I have been searching for content from Simon's Asian Tour with limited success. The kits that were used were the new Tama Superstars.

Si Rules!!

J P

[Robin]

Hey everybody! Here's a video from the Toto - Live In Amsterdam DVD ( the bonus stuff ). Simon Phillips doing a drumsolo in Japan. And he's reading the newspaper while doing it!

Here's the link :

DRUMSOLO (http://youtube.com/watch?v=gOs4A2FBt50)

[shuffle]

Interesting stuff. I like the part where he slowly introduces his snare after the newspaper portion.

I am not very much into drum solos, and I will only look at these videos from time to time when they are posted as in this thread. However, for funny reasons, when I watched this one, it reminded me of that other one, which was also posted a while ago...

http://www.drummerworld.com/Videos/joeyjordison.html

May be because of the double-bass fest and "showmanship" (different approach) involved... Anyways I am an old-fashionned guy, and there is one solo that I like much more than the other one... and I'd be curious to see other's opinion on that...

Don't want to start an argument though... We also did mention somewhere else that musicality and taste were very subjective, didn't we ?

[Drummer Karl]

Yes, I know it, I`ve got the DVD but one more time: WOOOOOW!!
Simon Phillips...er...or should I say SIR Simon Phillips?? Yes, so SIR Simon Phillips is genius, his sticks fly over the drumset, so relaxed! He is awesome!!

Karl

[boomboomda]

Yes, I know it, I`ve got the DVD but one more time: WOOOOOW!!
Simon Phillips...er...or should I say SIR Simon Phillips?? Yes, so SIR Simon Phillips is genius, his sticks fly over the drumset, so relaxed! He is awesome!!

Karl

"Drummmer Karl ", You think he is good enough to play for "Tokyo Hotel". Just kidding.

[Robin]

Yes, I know it, I`ve got the DVD but one more time: WOOOOOW!!
Simon Phillips...er...or should I say SIR Simon Phillips?? Yes, so SIR Simon Phillips is genius, his sticks fly over the drumset, so relaxed! He is awesome!!

Karl
Totally agree, Karl!

[Drummer Karl]

"Drummmer Karl ", You think he is good enough to play for "Tokyo Hotel". Just kidding.

HAHAHAHA :D
Tokio Hotel, you know them? Ever heard their stuff?
I won`t say my opinion to this band, I would be banned, sry! I don`t like them, this is the only thing I can say...(I don`t wanna attack any fans of this band ;) )

Peace,

Karl

[boomboomda]

Yes, I know of "Tokyo Hotel" I have German TV through Dishnetwork here in the US. I always watch Stefan Raab on "TV Total".
That man is crazy.

[the nameless]

Yes, I know of "Tokyo Hotel" I have German TV through Dishnetwork here in the US. I always watch Stefan Raab on "TV Total".
That man is crazy.
agree raab rules i love that show
but is it translated?
well wrong topic


wooohooow i never really listened to toto
but i guess i should start

what i like about this solo is that phillips not only plays the drums verywell
but entertains the audience even when they are no drummers................

thanks for posting

yeah i really should start listening to toto
damn

[Drummer Karl]

Yes, I know of "Tokyo Hotel" I have German TV through Dishnetwork here in the US. I always watch Stefan Raab on "TV Total".
That man is crazy.

Very cool, I love TV Total, too!! So funny...thenameless: yes, you should definatly start to listen to Toto, you`ll be impressed...I love em!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Karl

[Pedro]

Ok, Dennis Chamers did THE SAME THING on a Zildjiandays-show.

He also drunk some water while he was playing a double basspattern, and then whiped his face off with a towel, and then looked at his watch (in stead of reading the newspaper)

Ad then he did the same thing as Simon here is doing slowley starting hitting the snare followd by a roll, but Dennis did it with one hand.

So, one of the two just compied the other one, or someting like that. If that's a rescent video than Dennis Chambers was first, but I think there where a lot of drummer who did that before.

So, for me this video was a bit dissapointing!

[the nameless]

Didn´t it make you smile?
If no ok agree but
if you smiled I would not call myself disapointed


and I actually do nit think that Phillips or chambers
need to copy the otherone
it is just funny

[mlehnertz]

Neither solo really does much for me. I've never been a big fan of "arena solos". I use the term "arena solo" because they are geared more to an arena of screaming fans that don't know the first thing about playing drums but LOVE lots of notes, cymbals and double bass than to us regular drummers.

I find Steve Gadd's syncopated snare fills in the Buddy Rich drum-off to be more entertaining.

Don't get me wrong, Simon Phillips is in my Top 3 for players, but the solo doesn't do much for me.

BTW, didn't Tommy Lee hold the trademark for upside-down drum solos?

[Robin]

Here is the video in better quality : http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-2395601795065415816

[mlehnertz]

Is that Mike Porcaro doing the video taping?

[Robin]

Indeed it is. It's from the bonus stuff of the Live In Amsterdam DVD released in 2003.

[Drummer Karl]

Indeed it is. It's from the bonus stuff of the Live In Amsterdam DVD released in 2003.


I love the bonus stuff of Toto! They are so cool and crazy behind th stage though they are cool on the stage, too... Especially Steve, he laughs all the time, he is so funny...Robin: Do you know the scene when Toto are in the bus and Simon shows his poop "jingle bells" version?? This is sooo crazy!! :D

Karl

[Robin]

Hahahahaha yeah, I love that scene! Simon is on the verge of laughing his ass off! They seem to have alot of fun on the road!

[Guillermo]

I think the coolest thing about Simon Philips is his innate sense of flair... he just has a blast when he plays and that comes thru so much.

He has that spark, he makes drumming become such fun... his playing is like that... a strange mix of virtuosity, yet fun, he never appears to be a show off... and is always in great musical form.

[Drummer Karl]

Hahahahaha yeah, I love that scene! Simon is on the verge of laughing his ass off! They seem to have alot of fun on the road!

Yeah, really!! Everyone was laughing, me too! I Laughed so much that I felt pain after some time in my body! :D
Loving the extras...the day in the bowling centre...great and crazy HAHAHA :D

Karl

[RudimentalDrummer]

Ok, Dennis Chamers did THE SAME THING on a Zildjiandays-show.

He also drunk some water while he was playing a double basspattern, and then whiped his face off with a towel, and then looked at his watch (in stead of reading the newspaper)

Ad then he did the same thing as Simon here is doing slowley starting hitting the snare followd by a roll, but Dennis did it with one hand.

So, one of the two just compied the other one, or someting like that. If that's a rescent video than Dennis Chambers was first, but I think there where a lot of drummer who did that before.

So, for me this video was a bit dissapointing!

This video is put up here just for sharing purpose, didn't know it was dissapointing to you or and doesn't really matter who actuslly copied who. Afterall Simon did this as always in his many clinic in different ways. Dennis is my No.1 Drummer, but I've seen Simon on the Drums too in his Clinic and he really has very Fast Legs & Hands too, very good control 4 limbs and I'm amazed.

Pedro, these are entertaining regardless which drummer did it, provided we do possess that kind of skills.

[rumour control]

how cool is that !!? More to the point how long does it take to learn that stuff ?

[Drummer Karl]

how cool is that !!? More to the point how long does it take to learn that stuff ?

Two words: Veeeeeeeeeeeeery long...

Karl

[Robin]

Hey everybody. Earlier I posted a video of another SP solo that can be found Here. (http://www.drummerworld.com/forums/showthread.php?t=9313). Just now, I found another solo at YouTube which was recorded at the end of "Indian Summer" in China 2005. A very neat Solo! It can be found here! (http://youtube.com/watch?v=Tp2Yv8LCUpM)

[davodi74]

Geez, he is fast. Do you know the size of his china? It's huge!

[Robin]

Yeah, you can't believe that he is 49!

No, sorry, I don't know!

[Drummer Karl]

Woooow! Sir Simon played incredible!!! His fast playing, wooow, I`m proud of him!!!!!
and he played on a Tama Superstar Custom!! Now I`m really proud to have one, too!
To Bernhard: If you meet him one day, tell him that I`m proud of him and tell him best wishes and good luck!! :)

Karl

[aarbo]

Hey,

last night Toto had a little gig on Germany's biggest TV show "Wetten Dass...".

I have to say that I saw them live twice 5 years ago. But what I saw last night on TV was really really bad!
They did a crappy Africa-Rosanna-whatever-medley PLAYBACK!!!
Toto once was quite a big rock band, wasn't it?
Even Santana with his huge band always played live on this TV show!

Simon Phillips looked like a kid on his first drum set. (He played a random 5pc) He tried to smile but I think he was glad when it was over.
Oh man how can a top drummer like him play a gig like that? Is it really worth the money?

He even had to perform with the finger snapping sample in the last song.

Oh dear...

[nhzoso]

They were succesfull but I would'nt say they were huge. They had a few hits but were never a mega draw.. atleast from what I remeber here in the States.

[Drummer Karl]

Mhhh, I missed the show yesterday, just forgot it...so it seem to be not bad having missed it.
all in all: Toto really changed in the last years, REALLY!
It could be that they all just had a bad day...I don`t know why they should be so bad...when I saw them on the tour in Frankfurt they were incredible, they played like god himself...strange...

Karl

[aarbo]

Mhhh, I missed the show yesterday, just forgot it...so it seem to be not bad having missed it.
all in all: Toto really changed in the last years, REALLY!
It could be that they all just had a bad day...I don`t know why they should be so bad...when I saw them on the tour in Frankfurt they were incredible, they played like god himself...strange...

Karl Well I know that they CAN play. So I wonder why they did such a bad playback thing. By the way they have replaced David Paich on the keys right?

edit: Karl you really didn't miss anything concerning Toto...

[Drummer Karl]

Well I know that they CAN play. So I wonder why they did such a bad playback thing. By the way they have replaced David Paich on the keys right?

edit: Karl you really didn't miss anything concerning Toto...


I don`t know why, too...yes, they`ve replaced David. I don`t know whether they replaced him for just a few month or for even longer time...I hope that David comes back soon!
and I hope that this bad gig yesterday was the ONLY bad gig.

Karl

[Stu_Strib]

No big secret that Toto hasn't been very good since about 1984 ;-)

[Drummer Karl]

No big secret that Toto hasn't been very good since about 1984 ;-)

HÄ? What happened the year 1984??
but we all know that Toto changed really the last years, since Jeff died :( Toto is of course different...what would be if Jeffrey would still play with Toto and not Simon? Sry for this off topic question...

Karl

[aarbo]

but why bring that kit for a 4 minute TV show? Santana always did, and they played many times in this show!
btw Dennis Chambers' kit is not smaller than Simon Pillips' one...

[Robin]

If you have the orginial recordings of Africa and Rosanna, feel free to compare to the broadcast last night. If you'd know Toto's music, you'd know that DAVID PAICH sings on Africa but Greg sang it last night. Playback?????

and THIS is the kit that Simon is using. A BIT bigger than the TV kit, wouldn't you agree?

http://www.simon-phillips.com/equipment/images/drumkitgreen3.jpg

Go see Toto this summer, they're doing several dates in Germany. you'll be just like me - defending the band from someone who have NO idea about ANYTHING about the band!

[aarbo]

Well Robin, I really don't see your particular problem.
What I said is just:

I know Toto for a long time now and especially know the drumming of Simon Phillips (on his regular, big kit). I saw them live two times. They played big, live rock shows, as they use to do it...

The gig on the TV show LAST NIGHT was very poor in my opinion because it was full playback. And I wonder why Toto is doing it.

Period.

[Robin]

No idea. It's all promotion and the chance of getting 15 million people watching them on german TV.

[finnhiggins]

If you have the orginial recordings of Africa and Rosanna, feel free to compare to the broadcast last night. If you'd know Toto's music, you'd know that DAVID PAICH sings on Africa but Greg sang it last night. Playback?????


No reason why not. Bands like Toto have years and years of desk tapes from live shows, if they want to stitch together a "Live" performance without actually playing then that's entirely possible with the likes of Pro Tools et al.

[Hex]

Many times when a band performs to tape on a TV show, it's the decision of the show not the band.

[Robin]

Exactly. Why would they wanna perform those AGAIN? =P. I think they're pretty tired of them.

[Bernhard]

There are clear rules: 95% of this Saturday-Night public never heard of Toto. So they take their hugest hit (wish of the TV) and combines it with something new (wish of the band).

For Simon: he can only say Tama - if there is a kit...but only two toms of course...he can be happy. Normally they take the DW set and put then a TAMA sign on the Bassdrum.

Yes, Santana surprised me there at "Wetten Dass" really: They played live.....

Bernhard

[mlehnertz]

Hush up Stu. We need to drag you to a concert one of these days.

No big secret that Toto hasn't been very good since about 1984 ;-)

[Drummer Karl]

I agree totally with Bernhard: Many people don`t know Toto, I can notice this every day...
and: I don`t wanna say something against 'Wetten dass...' , there are many stars but it isn`t such a huge show...for Toto, they are really tired of the tour 'falling in between' and yeah: It is mostly the decision of the show to let them play with playback...so I don`t really annoy about that...

Karl

[Robin]

Well, I don't think they're tired OF the tour but they're tired AFTER the first leg of the tour. Usually, when Toto do these TV shows, they want the band to play Rosanna, Africa Or Hold The Line or whatever. TOTO of course do NOT want that. That's the last thing they want! People usually only knows these 3 songs but if they look a bit more in to it, they'll see that TOTO is SO much more. They're jazzy, heavy, progressive and everything in between!

[Womble]

Lol, I'm reminded of that phrase I taught to Stu (I think) recently:

TOTO are big in Europe. No escaping it.

Most of my pleasure in watching and listening to old TOTO is derived from Jeff's and Luke's playing. Some of the songs are cool, but really, nothing I'm ever going to play to my mates and say "Isn't this just an amazing song?". TOTO have been a cheesy dad-rock band for a long long time, but now one can't even enjoy them under the cover of knowing irony. I agree with Smoggrocks: they are irrelevant today. Personally, I wish they'd disbanded after Jeff died. Jeff was too intergral to the band, no one could have followed him, and certainly not Simon blooming Phillips.

[mlehnertz]

The majority of the tunes were written by Paich, Lukather and whatever lead singer they had at the time. A few tunes were co-written by Porcaro but not many. I'm glad Lukather kept the band together. They're still putting out some good records.

Personally, I wish they'd disbanded after Jeff died. Jeff was too intergral to the band, no one could have followed him, and certainly not Simon blooming Phillips.

[Stu_Strib]

Hush up Stu. We need to drag you to a concert one of these days.

Just like the 'new' Journey stuff, I can't stand any of the stuff Toto has put out since about 1984-5. That greatest hits with "Pamela" was jumping the shark for me.

But hey, if you guys like the Toto stuff now, and it takes you back to their first 6 albums out of interest, then great!

If you like Toto, you should check out James Newton Howard and Friends.

[smoggrocks]

If you like Toto, you should check out James Newton Howard and Friends.

oh, well, now - there ya go!

actually, i didn't even know james newton had friends. he always seems too busy cranking out [insert famous or non-famous movie score here].

man. this thread is starting to give me a ridiculous case of the giggles at work. my colleague is eyeing me oddly -- as though i've got a case of preacher gas.

[aarbo]

Well I totally agree that Toto is not relevant today.
I liked them very much when I started with drumming because of Simon Phillips who indeed plays some cool grooves and developed a unique style but yet without having big relevance on the evolution of drumming...
Toto's songs work quite well for teenagers. Today I don't listen anymore to the records.

While bashing on ... lol ... On this tv gig Steve Lukather looked quite drug influenced to me - maybe alcohol or cocaine? - but maybe just the jetlag, hihi

Rockstars never take drugs, do they?

[Robin]

Rockstars never take drugs, do they?
Lukather have stated himself that he have done drugs but not in the last 15 years. Problaby just the jetlag as this was the last "performance" of the first leg of the World Tour.

[Stu_Strib]

Someone already said it, that Toto is irrelevant in the States. Now that I live over seas I see that the Europeans are really the only thing keeping Toto alive. Kinda reminds me of David Hasselhof's huge Germany success, or more currently, how Robbie Williams is huge in Europe but a complete nobody in the States (although he lives in L.A.). There are tons of decent pop acts here in England that won't get a wiff in the States. I never heard of Westlife until I moved here, and I have seen every American Idol since the beginning (Simon Cowell invented Westlife). Same thing with Will Young, the original Pop Idol. Something tells me most Americans will never hear of Shayne either (Xfactor winner, or whoever won it last year).


No offense intended, but it is pretty clear there is a pretty big musical difference across the pond at times. I think the Europeans like Toto, like they like a lot of things that are way behind the times (to an American). Like I said, no offense though, just an observation from living in the UK and my year in Germany.

Stu

[Hex]

I think judging whether music is relevant or irrelevant is meaningless. It all depends on the listener.

15th century Romanian folk music is "irrelevant" today, but that doesn't mean certain people don't still enjoy it.

[Robin]

Someone already said it, that Toto is irrelevant in the States. Now that I live over seas I see that the Europeans are really the only thing keeping Toto alive. Kinda reminds me of David Hasselhof's huge Germany success, or more currently, how Robbie Williams is huge in Europe but a complete nobody in the States (although he lives in L.A.). There are tons of decent pop acts here in England that won't get a wiff in the States. I never heard of Westlife until I moved here, and I have seen every American Idol since the beginning (Simon Cowell invented Westlife). Same thing with Will Young, the original Pop Idol. Something tells me most Americans will never hear of Shayne either (Xfactor winner, or whoever won it last year).


No offense intended, but it is pretty clear there is a pretty big musical difference across the pond at times. I think the Europeans like Toto, like they like a lot of things that are way behind the times (to an American). Like I said, no offense though, just an observation from living in the UK and my year in Germany.

Stu
It's not just Germany and Europe. They're HUGE in Europe, Japan AND South America. They even sold out the Hammersmith Apollo in England, Stu! =P And the Royal Albert Hall in 2004. It's just the United States that they have a problem reaching out to. I guess It's the same with a band like Journey. They're huge in USA but not as big in Europe.

[mlehnertz]

It's because us Americans have a more sophistated taste in music like Nickelback and The Pussycat Dolls.

It's not just Germany and Europe. They're HUGE in Europe, Japan AND South America. They even sold out the Hammersmith Apollo in England, Stu! =P And the Royal Albert Hall in 2004. It's just the United States that they have a problem reaching out to. I guess It's the same with a band like Journey. They're huge in USA but not as big in Europe.

[Stu_Strib]

It's because us Americans have a more sophistated taste in music like Nickelback and The Pussycat Dolls.


I've heard the Pussycat Dolls way more than I care to here in the UK, so it isn't just a US phenomena.

Granted, crappy pop-music is popular world-wide!

As far as their relevency goes, I am speaking strictly of their ability to sell albums in enough volume for anyone in America to really care. So in that case, they are irrelevant. Just like I am an absolute irrelevent drummer.

[mlehnertz]

And I'm certainly not complaining because I get to see them for free, in a small venue, sitting 30' away rather than paying to see them in an arena with 10,000 screaming fans.


As far as their relevency goes, I am speaking strictly of their ability to sell albums in enough volume for anyone in America to really care. So in that case, they are irrelevant. Just like I am an absolute irrelevent drummer.

[JPDrum]

Santana always did, and they played many times in this show!
btw Dennis Chambers' kit is not smaller than Simon Pillips' one...

Not that size matters but, actually Dennis' kit is small in the number of drums then Simon's. Dennis has eight drums on his kit (possibly nine if he is using a second snare) and Simon's has fifteen.

J P Lapp

http://www.drummerworld.com/forums/showthread.php?p=39169#post39169

[JPDrum]

Personally, I wish they'd disbanded after Jeff died. Jeff was too intergral to the band, no one could have followed him, and certainly not Simon blooming Phillips.

Simon Phillips was the first and only choice of the band. The band was three weeks away from a tour when Jeff Porcaro died. Rather then put a bunch of people out (stage crew, sound crew, drivers, etc.) the band carried on. They didn't want someone who was going to try play and sound like Jeff. The choice was made because they knew Simon could hold true to the music but yet play it in his own style and not Jeff''s. And a great choice they made!

J P Lapp

http://www.drummerworld.com/forums/showthread.php?p=39169#post39169

[Robin]

Simon Phillips was the first and only choice of the band. The band was three weeks away from a tour when Jeff Porcaro died. Rather then put a bunch of people out (stage crew, sound crew, drivers, etc.) the band carried on. They didn't want someone who was going to try play and sound like Jeff. The choice was made because they knew Simon could hold true to the music but yet play it in his own style and not Jeff''s. And a great choice they made!

J P Lapp

http://www.drummerworld.com/forums/showthread.php?p=39169#post39169
Word on that, JP!

20 characters

[Harakirie]

They were succesfull but I would'nt say they were huge. They had a few hits but were never a mega draw.. atleast from what I remeber here in the States.

oh yes man they were a mega draw they got very famous with Hold the Line ! but i think the older toto drummer played that .

they had a few more hits but i think hold the line was the greatest !

[Robin]

Hello fellow boardmembers. yes, I know that I've been posting tons of SP videos but I recently got some video bootlegs with him and this is a drumforum so what the heck!

Anyway, Here's a video taken at a clinic in 2004 I believe where Simon plays the ending of his solo. And It's really cool. His bassdrums are doing one, his right hand is playing a solid beat and the left hand is constantly playing the octobans at another tempo. Comments are wecome! :)


HERE it is!!! (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GGcKwYuRBQg)

[Drummer Karl]

Wow, that is amazing!!! Woow, he has got coordination...amazing groove but he looks sooo concentrated...but I have to say: this looks very difficult!! Great stufff you posted here Robin!

PS.: I`m happy that you PM me the newest videos of our hero...Sir Simon Phillips.

Karl

[Sonorholic]

This is an updated version of something he did in one of his DCI videos. I'm not saying it's easy, but it's more connected than you might think. Here's how part of it goes together.
The left hand and the feet are playing groups of 3 16ths, but the left hand is going around the 4 octobans. Then with the right hand he's playing a kick snare pattern with the gong bass drum. The whole thing is moving at the same rate/tempo though. What makes it extra tricky is how long the whole pattern plays before it all lines up the same way again. I hope that makes some kind of sense. Check out his DCI video for a "slower" version of it.

[DillingerEscp]

that was pretty dang awesommeee

[cdawg_2010]

that was sweet! it would take a lot of cordination to do that

[Robin]

Hey guys. I found some new pictures taken of Simon Phillips. These were taken in early April 2006 on the "Falling In Between" tour that TOTO is doing right now.


http://i3.tinypic.com/wlviq9.jpg



http://i3.tinypic.com/wlvivb.jpg


http://i3.tinypic.com/wlvj2r.jpg


http://i3.tinypic.com/wlvj80.png


http://i3.tinypic.com/wlvj9c.jpg

[Drummer Karl]

Simon is...awesome, amazing, great, outstanding, cool, relaxed, fast, tasteful, just unbelievable!
I love his style, he changed TOTO in a cool way, more mordern rock, more prog.

Sir Simon Phillips is a great character.

Karl

[infernal drummer]

i love his playing .. ecpecially the one he does with mike oldfield.. amazing things what this guy can do .. i would love to see the drum solo he does on livefields btw. my friends and i used to wake up my neighbours by playing, really loud, the first second of hold the line from livefields.. .. well we thought it was funny.. and it has a cool sound.. jeff porcarco was also a great drummer though.. no doubt..

[Robin]

i love his playing .. ecpecially the one he does with mike oldfield.. amazing things what this guy can do .. i would love to see the drum solo he does on livefields btw. my friends and i used to wake up my neighbours by playing, really loud, the first second of hold the line from livefields.. .. well we thought it was funny.. and it has a cool sound.. jeff porcarco was also a great drummer though.. no doubt..
Well, I uploaded TONS of SP videos to Youtube.com so feel free and those and comment if you will!

Here they are : http://www.youtube.com/results?search=Simon+phillips&search_type=search_videos

[infernal drummer]

awesome site thank you robin the clinic solo 2004 with octobans was just what i was looking for

[Robin]

awesome site thank you robin the clinic solo 2004 with octobans was just what i was looking for
Yeah, that groove is so freakin cool!

[Robin]

Yes, I know some people don't like him and his soloing but I don't care. hahahaha.

Anyway, here's a drumsolo taken during the Toto tour in 2000 in Bulgaria. This is one of the more intense solos I've seen of Simon and I think It's a very good one too.

Sorry about the sound problem. It's about 1-2 seconds after the video but It's definitely "watchable"!

Here it is!!! (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SDFSDG0645w)


Feel free to comment!!

[Drummer Karl]

GREATEST solo I`ve ever seen by Simon!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
he shows all his dynamics and sensivity! great grooves and his drums (especially the toms sound delicious!!!!!

Great one, Robin!! GREAT ONE!
this was this "Lifefields" tour, or?

Karl

[Robin]

Yes, this was during the third leg of the Livefields tour in the summer of 2000. Glad you enjoyed, Karl!

[Fur drummer]

I agree with Drummer Karl, that was the best solo I have seen from him. Nice use of the octobans and BDs together. Very cool solo.

[Drummer Karl]

I agree with Drummer Karl, that was the best solo I have seen from him. Nice use of the octobans and BDs together. Very cool solo.

and it was far the best tom sound I`ve ever heard from Simon`s Maples!!!! nice, warm, clean...
just love it!

Karl

[Sylvester]

That was awesome!!! That groove at the end is mindblowing? How on earth does he do that?! I've never seen a Phillips solo this wild. Thanks for posting, brother!

[hauk]

to me: not much mindblowing, but pretty good [though i'm probably pretty hard to please]

[Sylvester]

I'm curious, What is Toto doing right now?

[Robin]

Yet again, some more SP video. Here's some amazing playing from his instructional video released in 1992. And yes, that long hair and those pants are neat hahahahaha.

here it is :
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EIV16KybRRo

[TopCat]

That is awesome. The hair is not so much. Great find.

Any idea what hats he's using there?

[Drummer Karl]

Wow, omg, that was really an awesome find!
You can recognize Simon`s playing style VERY well! really great!

TopCat: I think he is using A custom hats...brilliant finish.

Karl

[Robin]

I really love that fill around 1:11. Typical Simon Phillips!

[Sylvester]

That was really cool! Very intensive playing by Simon! Love it!

[Damon Dapper]

Ohhh come on..........LOL


Simon has way more caliber than what he demonstrated on that cool clip............

He's one of the greatest Drummers alive today, I don't understand why any of his clips from his 2 instructional vidoe's (made around 11 years ago) are not on here at drummerworld. If you think that solo above is something (and its cool) get both of his instructional videos, and behold man! Purely Awesome.

Simons Instructional Video packs (http://www.musiciansfriend.com/product/WarnerBrosSimonPhillipsVideo?sku=960043&src=3WFRWXX)

The second video is "Simon Returns" we're talkin some seriously sick talent, man!

Dap.

[Damon Dapper]

Nice find,

And its about time Simon gets some real play here, but may I suggest watching the entire video because this cat is world class. But wait until you watch his second video DVD called "Simon Returns" in this set this cat delivers true talent and really takes the chain off and lets go. I see why he's wanted by every musician on the planet.

Dap.

[Robin]

Yo Dap! Thanks for posting! I have both his videos ( though only the first one on DVD and the second on VHS ) and his playing is sooo freakin good! His playing on the Simon Phillips Returns video is without any doubt, the best playing I EVER heard from him!

[Robin]

I don't understand why any of his clips from his 2 instructional vidoe's (made around 11 years ago) are not on here at drummerworld.
yeah, I mailed Bernhard about it, I asked if he wanted some clips so he could put them out but he never answered.

[WeatherKing]

Monster fills...I liked the one that started at about 1:31 with the double kick/tom fill. That had a great rolling feel to it. Thanks for posting!

[Robin]

Just so you know guys, I upload these things for you at DW. Again, some new ones!

Here, SP is showing some really cool snare/kickdrum rudiments you can practice to. Watch out!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XOhM3thhUNA

Here is SP ( from the video instructional video ) performing the groove song "Cosmos" :
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5o2-WlxGicY

[Fur drummer]

and it was far the best tom sound I`ve ever heard from Simon`s Maples!!!! nice, warm, clean...
just love it!

Karl
Yes it was, I wonder if he is using different heads and tuning or if it was the way they were miced?

[Drummer Karl]

Yes it was, I wonder if he is using different heads and tuning or if it was the way they were miced?

I`m not sure but I think this was the time he used coated Remo ambassadors...they sound so beautiful!

Karl

[pimp_my_RIDE]

WOW!!!!(I say this with my jaw sitting on the floor and drool dripping down)
That great man never disapoints does he.

[Davo-London]

Impressive Hi-hat work amongst other things.

But there was no rhythm or melody motif running through the solo. I imagine a lot of non-drummers would have found this a turn-off.

Davo

[Robin]

But there was no rhythm or melody motif running through the solo. I imagine a lot of non-drummers would have found this a turn-off.
Well, you're right about that but in the end, there are tons of rhytms with all the things that's going on ;) ( kickdrums, snaredrum & gongdrum )

[Robin]

right here : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KKvfXERu-uA

[Drummer Karl]

Great video as always!
What an amazing camera angle! I really love Simon`s style, that was really cool...yeahhhh, keep up posting those great vids!! :-)

Karl

[Robin]

Some new stuff I uploaded :

Simon in 1992 playing a GREAT doublebass track :
http://youtube.com/watch?v=zvP2hJLh2Ts

Great solo in 2002 :
http://youtube.com/watch?v=KKvfXERu-uA

[SqueakySpeedKing]

Always such a great drum sound snd a deft management of that monster kit. Great ideas.

[infernal drummer]

Some new stuff I uploaded :

Simon in 1992 playing a GREAT doublebass track :
http://youtube.com/watch?v=zvP2hJLh2Ts

Great solo in 2002 :
http://youtube.com/watch?v=KKvfXERu-uA

good stuff :) i would KILL for his skills

[radeq]

hey guys, I've seen few days ago theyr concert in budapest, simon was AWESOMEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEe!!!!

[Robin]

http://youtube.com/watch?v=oE8XQVs7Ki4

Just uploaded this. Video quality suck but the audio is good. A great solo by the master in 1996.

[Drummer Karl]

http://youtube.com/watch?v=oE8XQVs7Ki4

Just uploaded this. Video quality suck but the audio is good. A great solo by the master in 1996.

this was truly awesome. Damn, this man grooves...great video again.

Karl

[mlehnertz]

Hey, so when Alex Van Halen keels over and dies we know "Hot For Teacher" is covered.

You heard it. You know you did. China kicks and all.

Robin, do you have a copy of the tune V8 either in MP3 or video?

[The Elusive Z]

Well this is my first post here, and it's fitting that it's for Simon Phillips. I've been a fan of his for a long time. He's got such an amazing sound, and the stuff he comes up with for timekeeping is really creative. I've got his videos and recently picked up the live force majeur cd. Geat stuff !

I'm sorry to hear that he stripped the octobans for the new tour. That was one of my favourite elements of his kit.

Robin, nice work posting all those clips of him. No we're not getting tired of them, so keep em comin

[Robin]

Robin, do you have a copy of the tune V8 either in MP3 or video?
Well, I think V8 is on Simon's page here on Drummerworld but It's not the whole one. I'll try and find the complete tune!

The Elusive Z: For his clinic tour, he did infact play without the octobans but this recent TOTO tour, they were back up!

[mlehnertz]

I'll check. I used to have it on a floppy piece of plastic from Modern Drummer. Let me know if you have the whole thing. Thanks.

Well, I think V8 is on Simon's page here on Drummerworld but It's not the whole one. I'll try and find the complete tune!

[Robin]

Simon turns 50 today. Happy birthday!

[wy yung]

Happy birthday Simon.

[junglelord]

Happy Birthday Simon.
I have one question.
In the Live DVD with Toto on the song Rossana you did not do the Jeff Pocarro shuffle, how come?

[X22]

The last time I checked, Simon Phillips is not a participant in these forums.

Happy Birthday Simon.
I have one question.
In the Live DVD with Toto on the song Rossana you did not do the Jeff Pocarro shuffle, how come?

[Robin]

Happy Birthday Simon.
I have one question.
In the Live DVD with Toto on the song Rossana you did not do the Jeff Pocarro shuffle, how come?
Well, Simon isn't trying to be Jeff, he has his own style and makes the song his own. That's problaby why.

[junglelord]

While I never considered that he was trying to be Jeff, I thought that he was trying to be true to the songs which was obvious in the rest of the songs that he played But for some unknown reason, he did not do the shuffle to Rosanna, which confuses me and confounds me because I'm sure he can do it. And of course it is the signature sound to that song. The fact that he did not play at while he did the rest of the songs The same the way Jeff did still confuses me.
PS I knew he did not answer the questions it was purely rhetorical.
I have yet to get a satisfactory answer from any drummer I've talked to. The only conclusion I can come to, which was seen to be impossible. Is that he actually can't play that shuffle.
Of course we know he can, or it would seem improbable that he cannot.
Therefore, the question still remains, why did he not reproduce the shuffle. When he played Rosanna live with toto?

[Berberman]

A video of a drum solo last week in Paris with TOTO. Enjoy:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aDGHhjiHFu0

[HammerHead]

simon phillips fans make sure you go back and check out
judas priest sin after sin (pre metal hard rock) with 19 year
phillips.


if you haven't already.

a ripping good time to be had by all.

[spartacus1989]

You have even experienced Simon Phillips until you have listened to Toto - Daves Gone Skiing!!! Pure Genius!

[squid]

Just thought I'd share my opinion...
I saw Toto live last summer and they were mind-blowing. The concert was outdoors, and the quality of sound was unreal. Simon's drum set was simply the greatest I have ever heard live. Even Rush (who I am not knocking, they are one of my favorite bands) didn't sound that good outdoors. I particularly loved the way Simon's bass drum sounded. Props to Simon and Toto's amazing Tech crew!

[massaf]

Well, Simon isn't trying to be Jeff, he has his own style and makes the song his own. That's problaby why.

Indeed, Toto became interested in Philips sice Jeff loved his style. Somewhere Simon said he wasnt going to copy Jeff, he was going to play in his own syle, the one Jeff liked. I think Jeff told the Toto guys that if someday he left the band, Simon was a good replacement. But still, I think think Simon is ver overated.

[slingerland755]

Just so you know guys, I upload these things for you at DW. Again, some new ones!

Here, SP is showing some really cool snare/kickdrum rudiments you can practice to. Watch out!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XOhM3thhUNA

Here is SP ( from the video instructional video ) performing the groove song "Cosmos" :
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5o2-WlxGicY

Bummer...the video was removed by user. Got antoher copy?

[KarlCrafton]

One of my bands played a show withTOTO in July, and Simon was amazing. His kit was super cool, and he was a really great guy.

He made it a point to come off the bus to say how much he loved my drum sound--especially my bass drum which sounded "fu*king great" in his words.
Now THAT was cool.

HE was asking me what muffling I used and how I had it set up. That was a holy crap moment to say the least.

He sent his roadie and another crew guy to find me and invite on stage, but they couldn't find me--and they both said "Hey, we were looking for you! Simon wanted to have you come on stage to watch..."

The keyboard player also commented on how great my drums sounded too, and Steve Lukather was also complimentary on the band.

Here's a pic of me and Simon, and a couple others..so you know I'm not B.Sing (which I don't ever do I promise!).

http://i66.photobucket.com/albums/h257/KarlCrafton/marquee.jpg

http://i66.photobucket.com/albums/h257/KarlCrafton/meSimon1.jpg

http://i66.photobucket.com/albums/h257/KarlCrafton/skitback.jpg

This is how I had it set up on the Toto gig, but the pic is from a show we opened for The (New) Cars in Sept.

http://i66.photobucket.com/albums/h257/KarlCrafton/P1010051.jpg

This is how have it set up now...I have a 21" crash under the china, but you can't really see it in this pic.
http://i66.photobucket.com/albums/h257/KarlCrafton/RSNwKtConfig907.jpg

[Ekim]

If you like over-the-top slamming rock stuff, get Derek Sherinian's (ex-Dream Theater) solo CDs. Simon plays on "Inertia", "Black Utopia", "Mythology" and "Blood Of The Snake". They're all good but I'd say "Black Utopia" is the best of the bunch, followed by "Inertia".

Steve Lukather from Toto is on them too, along with guys like Yngwie, Zakk Wylde, Allan Holdsworth and Al Di Meola! Great stuff.

[Bernhard]

Great Drumclinic yesterday in Basel/Switzerland....

Enjoy the pictures...

Bernhard

[RudimentalDrummer]

Thanks Bernhard, the pictures are real nice.eeeeeeeeeeeeee.

[JPDrum]

Great Drumclinic yesterday in Basel/Switzerland....

Enjoy the pictures...

Bernhard

Thanks ever so much! These are some of the nicest shots of Simon I've seen on the net yet! Absolutely incredible. Hope you have more!

Cheers

J P Lapp

[JPDrum]

While I never considered that he was trying to be Jeff, I thought that he was trying to be true to the songs which was obvious in the rest of the songs that he played But for some unknown reason, he did not do the shuffle to Rosanna, which confuses me and confounds me because I'm sure he can do it. And of course it is the signature sound to that song. The fact that he did not play at while he did the rest of the songs The same the way Jeff did still confuses me.
PS I knew he did not answer the questions it was purely rhetorical.
I have yet to get a satisfactory answer from any drummer I've talked to. The only conclusion I can come to, which was seen to be impossible. Is that he actually can't play that shuffle.
Of course we know he can, or it would seem improbable that he cannot.
Therefore, the question still remains, why did he not reproduce the shuffle. When he played Rosanna live with toto?

He did not play it like Jeff becasue that is what the guys in Toto wanted. They wanted him to stay true to the music but play it his style, not Jeff's. This is what was told to me firsthand from Toto's tour Martin Cole. We had a very long discussion after a Toto show a couple of years ago.

Cheers

J P Lapp

[Gretschgal96]

JP's right here, gang.
In fact...there's an interview somewhere online of a Mr. Legarde interviewing Luke (four or five days after Jeff's memorial service) and Luke said that they wanted simon to rip it up.
Which is what he's done for 16 years. To make it his own thing. They did NOT want someone to come in sounding like Jeffrey....because nobody but Jeff could sound like Jeff.

ps: AMAZING slideshow of Simon up on the front page. Was this put together from one clinic or several? There's some great angles on the Phillips.

T


He did not play it like Jeff becasue that is what the guys in Toto wanted. They wanted him to stay true to the music but play it his style, not Jeff's. This is what was told to me firsthand from Toto's tour Martin Cole. We had a very long discussion after a Toto show a couple of years ago.

Cheers

J P Lapp

[Bernhard]

ps: AMAZING slideshow of Simon up on the front page. Was this put together from one clinic or several? There's some great angles on the Phillips.

T

It was one Show - Drumclinic last month here in Basel, Switzerland
Green Shirt is Soundcheck - Grey shirt is appearance
See also his page on Drummerworld:
http://www.drummerworld.com/drummers/Simon_Phillips.html

Bernhard

[Philippe]

Thanks Bernhard for the fantastic pictures!!! I was in Aarau to watch Simon on his drum clinics, couldn't make it to Basel.

It was great, just plain fantastic. Simon is a hell of a drummer (well, wouldn't you know?) and what a nice person he is.

[slingerland755]

I just watched the Live Toto DVD 'Falling In Between'. Jeff is greatly missed, but they could not of found a better replacement. Simon has the tastiest licks and I believe plays Toto's music just how Jeff would have wanted. Lee Sklar and Simon gettin' it!

[Philippe]

Simon is in fact far more than just a replacement drummer. He's with Toto for a long time now and is responsible for producing some of their latest CDs (Falling in Between has been recorded in his own studio).
Simon isthe only one along with Steve Lukather touring with Toto since Jeff's dead. Bobby came back later, Mike wasn't on the last tour, same for Paich.

[The Groovekat]

Finaly

one of my favorite drummers :) I love his album he did with the Toto - livefields - especialy the 6 song - dave's gone fishing it's incredible... :D

It's "Skiing" lmfao!

[Pollyanna]

IMO a thread about Simon Phillips isn't complete without mentioning his work on 801 Live with Phil Manzanera and Brian Eno.

His power, energy, tightness and speed was awesome on East of Asteroid (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=39eHgk5b1Ek) from that album, which was a mashup of Phil's East of Echo and Quiet Sun's Mummy Was an Asteroid, Daddy Was a Small Non-Stick Kitchen Utensil (yes, that's what it was called :)

It's hard not to like a guy who can not only do the "herd of stampeding elephants" double kick thing and super smooth grace notes.

As a side note, Quiet Sun was an experimental project of Phil M's while he was still with Roxy and featured the excellent Charles Hayward on kit and Bill McCormack on bass.

[keep it simple]

Also worth mentioning his work with Lukather on Los Labottomy's. A bit of fun muso rock but probably the catylist for Simon joining Toto after Jeff''s departure. Worth a google. A few good vids out there.

[Ekim]

If you like shreddy metal fusion, get Derek Sherinian's CDs "Inertia" and "Black Utopia". Both are amazing with Mr. Simon Phillips on the drums and (maybe more importantly) producing.

"Black Utopia" is one of my favorite CDs of the last decade. It's criminally overlooked.

[Hal]

Neither solo really does much for me. I've never been a big fan of "arena solos". I use the term "arena solo" because they are geared more to an arena of screaming fans that don't know the first thing about playing drums but LOVE lots of notes, cymbals and double bass than to us regular drummers.

I find Steve Gadd's syncopated snare fills in the Buddy Rich drum-off to be more entertaining.

Don't get me wrong, Simon Phillips is in my Top 3 for players, but the solo doesn't do much for me.

BTW, didn't Tommy Lee hold the trademark for upside-down drum solos?

+ 1, Not to be hard on Simon Phillips at all, I think he's an incredible drummer, but, this type of solos are not my thing. It's ok, it is a part of the show and it is intended for the crowd to scream and drive'em crazy, but if I have the chance of choosing to hear them or not, I'd choose no

[keep it simple]

I went to see Simon Phillips at the UK Drumfest NIA last Sunday (12 / 07/ 09). He shared the gig with Carmine Appice, Jojo Mayer, Gregg Bissonette & Jason Bittner plus a local guy, Robin Day. I've seen Simon play many times both at his clinics and at band gigs (The Who, Toto, Protocol) but never on the same stage as other drumming greats. Carmine Appice was good in a standard rock sort of way with a great stage passion & dynamic. Jason Bittner was a bit bouble bass happy predictable but badly held back by having to use an electric kit. Gregg Bissonette played some fantastic Cuban style stuff that showed him to be the tasteful kit master he is. Jojo Mayer was very inspiring. Amazing left hand ability and a truely innovative session. Apart from Simon Phillips, Robin Day was the star of the show for me. A real down to earth presentation with lots of flair, a different angle & great personality. He was brought in at short notice too so extra impressive. Then along came Simon Phillips. Never have I had the chance to compare his playing with others in such a way. The difference was mind blowing. He really is on a whole different level to other players. This was no stadium solo style show but an incredible display of control, dynamics, musicality & technical skill beyond what you believe to be possible. A truly spine tingling experience. Do I think he's one of the greatest players ever? After that display along side his peers, you bet!

[keep it simple]

I'm a Simon Phillips fan. I admire his sense of space, control, dynamic & musicallity that he brings to rock music primarily. I'm no jazz drummer. I'm a simple rock player but with an appreciation of many music forms. I'm interested in the opinions of those true jazz players we have in the DW community. Below is a link to a video of Simon playing with Jeff Babko & others. Please take a look and tell me if you think Simon can really play jazz.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-5HaHhXB05U

[jordanz]

Wow! Who knew Simon could swing. I really like it. His BD is too loud for me and his ride is not loud enough. But, the most important thing is that it's swinging.

Interestingly, he's playing a small set (for him anyway) and he's playing right hand ride.

[con struct]

Simon Phillips is one of those really intelligent and skilled musicians who can play anything and play it right. He's simply one of the very best drummers out there.

[Pocket-full-of-gold]

Nice post KIS. The 'Neil Peart Can't Swing' thread lead me to wonder what people would think of the likes of Simon Phillips and other's not known for their jazz playing as well.

Like you, I'm not skilled enough in the art of jazz drumming to really comment. Will watch this thread with interest.

[keep it simple]

Probably put this in the wrong place to get noticed. I think Simon's playing in this is very reserved, even for a jazz drum track, but that's the point. Am I wrong? Perhaps playing this genre of jazz is all about being reserved. I'm looking at this from a rock drummer's perspective. That frustrates me a little because I can't get into the track sufficiently to form an opinion. The performance doesn't move me in the same way as other performaces he's done, but is that due to my lack of appreciation of the form?

[Mediocrefunkybeat]

I've seen much worse. The main problem here is the bass drum - which is just too heavy and thudded. His ride could do with more definition, but the snare isn't bad. In terms of feel, he could definitely swing it more, but the driving motion of his hi hats is well placed.

I'd like to see some more in-depth comments by those more qualified.

[aydee]

Oo tricky question, and depends on ones definition or qualification on what jazz or a jazz drummer is.

To answer it, Simon is a very accomplished player who can and is playing jazz here..( is jazz fusion jazz? ). I could add a lot of other names to that list including Gadd, Colauita, Weckl, Cobham,.. and so on. These, to my mind are all great players who can play lots of different things well, including jazz.

A jazz drummer on the other hand is someone who's life focus would be jazz, and these drummers tend to sound a little different from those coming from rock sensibilities like Simon or from session playing, or even latin players who also play jazz.

.. Jim Black, Eric Harland, Brian Blade, Ari Hoenig, Jeff Hamilton etc would be a few examples of the 2nd variety.

...

[Mediocrefunkybeat]

This is difficult, you're right, but in this instance - to me - the music doesn't really qualify too much as 'fusion'. This is pretty straight-ahead stuff. The trumpet solo half way through is pure Davis.

I'd be interested in seeing what Gregg thinks. If his right foot wasn't so heavy, I couldn't find *too* much 'wrong' with this, other than that the music is very, very regressive. Personally fusion drummers don't count as jazz players to me. Weckl has gotten better in recent years, but his playing is far, far too clinical and doesn't lend itself to a straight-ahead concept, instead it works for very heavily scripted music.

I'm actually quite impressed with Phillips on this. He really doesn't disgrace himself.

[Steamer]

Not bad at all and much better than other crossover from rock to jazz players i've seen.

Only thing I observed was something I find alot with rock players playing jazz that's quite common at first is the placement of heavy emphasis on the 1 of the bar {downbeat of the bar} to resolve certain phrases at the kit rather than what you see with more seasoned jazz focused players who lighten up the overall feel by using more elements of syncopation to highlight stronger the weaker parts of the beat in a given bar {resolution points as Bob Moses calls them} that gives it more of a buoyant frontward flowing motion when resolving setups and phrases in a swing based jazz concept setting.

Like I say though not bad at all, pretty decent actually, and he's on the right {better} track for playing swing based music.........

[Deltadrummer]

Yeah, its got a real nice Elvin/McCoy Tyner feel. In that sense, his playing is not free enough to create the space needed. It's a little heavy. It is not a question of whether he can play jazz, or whether this is good or bad jazz. his playing on this specific recording is stylistically wrong. I wasn't a big Simon Phillips fan back in the day. But recently, each time I hear him, I am really impressed with his playing. He has a great groove. And this is a nice piece of music.

[aydee]

.

Only thing I observed was something I find alot with rock players playing jazz that's quite common at first is the placement of heavy emphasis on the 1 of the bar {downbeat of the bar} to resolve certain phrases at the kit rather than what you see with more seasoned jazz focused players who lighten up the overall feel by using more elements of syncopation to highlight stronger the weaker parts of the beat in a given bar {resolution points as Bob Moses calls them} that gives it more of a buoyant frontward flowing motion when resolving setups and phrases in a swing based jazz concept setting.


Very nicely explained, Stan.
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[gongbass]

This is one of those questions that I get students asking me all the time. Can this drummer or that drummer play Jazz. It reminds me of one of my first drum teachers in the early 90's, who was an accomplished Jazz veteran. I was headed to music school and really started to get into players like Elvin and Tony, not to mention the music of Miles, Coltrane Shorter, Herbie, etc.. When we started getting into swinging and "feathering" the bass drum, I'd switch to my then quasi traditional grip. He asked me why I was doing that and I said "because I'm playing jazz". He then explained that I shouldn't think of it that way and that I was playing music. Obviously there were different concepts, dynamics, feels, etc.. but its still the same instrument. It was a good point. A few years later when I started getting more trio work I decided that I did want to pursue traditional grip (for Jazz) because of the Moeller technique but I still kind of approach the genres that way. You are bringing all that makes you a a unique player to any musical situation you face. Tony Williams played like Tony Williams whether it was bop or rock or fusion. He reacted to the music and played what he felt. I like that approach.

I loved Simon's playing on the Vantage point disc. No he isn't a Bop purist (not that he was playing Bop) but he did some cool stuff that only Simon can do. I like hearing more mainstream rock players approach jazz or jazz influenced music, its refreshing. Just like I love hearing jazz drummers playing rock, there's usually that unintended swing that's just, there!

I do a fair amount of "Jazz" playing and I approach it with as much respect and reverence
for the art as I can. I've spent years immersing myself in it, studying brushes, studying form, learning how different drummers approached standards. I play a 18" bass drum, traditional toms with coated heads tuned up high. Big K's, etc... I also show up dressed much differently then when I do gigs with rock bands. However I grew up listening to Rush, Zeppelin, Yes, Pearl Jam, Soundgarden, REM, etc... I can't deny that my roots are deeply planted in rock music. My instincts have been developed to lean in a certain direction and no matter how many Max Roach solos I transcribe and try to mimick, there are certain things that just stay with you. I'm sure the same goes for guys and girls who grew up playing jazz and work in rock situations.

One of the best examples of a successful hybrid has to be Matt Chamberlain. He's an amalgamate of so many different styles yet plays like HIM no matter what musical situation he's in. When I hear Matt play with Bill Frissell or Brad Mehldau I get just as much as if Brian Blade (who I love) is playing. Simply because its a great musician reacting to the music, not faking it or trying to be authentic.

[con struct]

Simply because its a great musician reacting to the music, not faking it or trying to be authentic.

Yes! "Trying to be authentic," exactly. That's what keeps coming back to haunt jazz, in my opinion, the endless striving for authenticity. It's what makes it an interesting display in a museum, the "authenticity" concept. If you want authenticity the Preservation Hall Jazz Band is still performing in New Orleans.
If people say "The bass drum's too loud" or "The swing feel wasn't thus and so" or "It's stylistically wrong" then that pretty much keeps the music encased in amber. "In order to do it right (meaning authentically) you have to do it like this."
I would have though that doing jazz right means to push beyond all that dogma and find your own means of expressing it, whether or not the afficianados agree that it's "authentic."
Phillips is playing his take on jazz here and I think it's bloody good. I think he nailed it. If I'd never heard of him except for what I saw and heard on this clip I'd say "That's a damn good jazz drummer with his own unique style."

[Steamer]

Yes! "Trying to be authentic," exactly. That's what keeps coming back to haunt jazz, in my opinion, the endless striving for authenticity. It's what makes it an interesting display in a museum, the "authenticity" concept. If you want authenticity the Preservation Hall Jazz Band is still performing in New Orleans.
If people say "The bass drum's too loud" or "The swing feel wasn't thus and so" or "It's stylistically wrong" then that pretty much keeps the music encased in amber. "In order to do it right (meaning authentically) you have to do it like this."
I would have though that doing jazz right means to push beyond all that dogma and find your own means of expressing it, whether or not the afficianados agree that it's "authentic."
Phillips is playing his take on jazz here and I think it's bloody good. I think he nailed it. If I'd never heard of him except for what I saw and heard on this clip I'd say "That's a damn good jazz drummer with his own unique style."

You seem to miss the point as seems always the case in internet jazz discussions covering any jazz related topic. I offered the best I can do so take it or leave it with what is missing and could if covered make it even more "happening" in a traditional swing based jazz ensemble setting such as seen in the clip. There's always room for improvement covering any style of playing. If not where's the challenge to improve, grow and get even better at understanding and doing it in the first place?

To answer this same old tired {for me} argument I hear repeated {usually from non jazz players and listeners alike I might add in several cases} about being stuck in the box of the "authentic" traditions of jazz music and drumming with its so called "limitations" for not moving forward being "stuck in the past" my answer is have you ever heard of Erik Harland? He as just one example has futher brought to the table from being firmly rooted in the traditions of jazz music and jazz drumming a whole fresh but deep in {jazz} conception take on taking jazz drumming to the next evolutionary level and step for the music. Enough said............

Simon is most certainly on the right path but he not quite fully "there" yet.....

[con struct]

Simon is most certainly on the right path but he not quite fully "there" yet.....

In your opinion.

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[Deltadrummer]

You seem to miss the point as seems always the case in internet jazz discussions covering any jazz related topic. I offered the best I can do so take it or leave it with what is missing and could if covered make it even more "happening" in a traditional swing based jazz ensemble setting such as seen in the clip. There's always room for improvement covering any style of playing. If not where's the challenge to improve, grow and get even better at understanding and doing it in the first place?

To answer this same old tired {for me} argument I hear repeated {usually from non jazz players and listeners alike I might add in several cases} about being stuck in the box of the "authentic" traditions of jazz music and drumming with its so called "limitations" for not moving forward being "stuck in the past" my answer is have you ever heard of Erik Harland? He as just one example has futher brought to the table from being firmly rooted in the traditions of jazz music and jazz drumming a whole fresh but deep in {jazz} conception take on taking jazz drumming to the next evoling level and step for the music. Enough said............

Simon is most certainly on the right path but he not quite fully "there" yet.....


I think the problem I see here is exactly the opposite, Stan, and that is as you stated earlier, a lack of authenticity. He is playing this piece in a kind of post-fusion straight up manner. It's a nice groove and a nice feel, but he is missing the whole stylistic element, isn't he? I would ask if that is because he is trying to do something original ??? If it ain't broke, don't fix it. This is a nice piece in a Coltrane quartet style. The keyboard is laying down these nice block chords. It is just calling for some syncopation. the drumming is very undergraduate in that sense, how a guy would play before he studied post-bop drumming.

[Pollyanna]

To quote Soft Machine's former drummer, Robert Wyatt:

"rock musicians tend to make clunky and old-fashioned jazz drummers, and jazz drummers tend to make effete and precious rock drummers"

Simon didn't sound clunky or old fashioned in that clip to me. As with guys like Phil Collins and Chester Thompson he's always struck me as a fusionesque drummer who tended to choose rock. Very fast, a flowing player who uses plenty of grace notes and has heaps of dynamic control.

I would think that striving for authenticity in any style to be a rather mannered approach to playing music. Fair enough if that's what you want to go for or you are looking to break into a scene, but if it's a side project like this then surely it would make most sense to simply play the tune as YOU? There's you, there's the music ... okay, what do you do to make this sound as good as you can?

I think that's what Simon did. In the main themes he seemed to play repeating figures a bit more than I would have expected, which struck me as more of a compositional prog rock approach than that of an improvising jazzer, as per Ken's comment, but it worked well to my, admittedly untrained, ear. I can imagine plenty of local jazzers not getting the tune to sound as good as Simon did.

[Steamer]

In your opinion.

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Yes based on hearing him play in this traditional swing based format on listening to it with my jazz "ears" and 34 years of playing this very music in question and keeping up on its latest developments. Everyone has got an opinion and mine's based on where i'm coming from from listening to it from a jazz drummers perspective and knowledge base. Funny how that works.....

[Steamer]

I think the problem I see here is exactly the opposite, Stan, and that is as you stated earlier, a lack of authenticity. He is playing this piece in a kind of post-fusion straight up manner. It's a nice groove and a nice feel, but he is missing the whole stylistic element, isn't he? I would ask if that is because he is trying to do something original ??? If it ain't broke, don't fix it. This is a nice piece in a Coltrane quartet style. The keyboard is laying down these nice block chords. It is just calling for some syncopation. the drumming is very undergraduate in that sense, how a guy would play before he studied post-bop drumming.


Yes on all counts Ken.....

[con struct]

The drumming is very undergraduate in that sense, how a guy would play before he studied post-bop drumming.

Well, but how do you know that SImon Phillips hasn't studied post-bop drumming?

[Steamer]

Well, but how do you know that SImon Phillips hasn't studied post-bop drumming?

Because you can hear it in the delivery of his playing in the clip.....

Actually it sounds like he's been checking elements of it out more carefully. If he adds some more improvisational elements, call and response/dialogue with other ensemble members, some "spice" from buoyant elements of syncopation thrown in as I covered earlier into the mix he'll be having one complete smokin delivery believe me.

Like I said earlier I like it actually and was pleasantly surprised by it but per this specific well covered in the past by the masters jazz ensemble idiom further study is need to take it to the next step. Check out Tony Williams later crossover stuff blending swing and even 1/8th concepts together in the music. That hot fusion containing the colours of jazz swing based elements hit the "complete" bullseye for me in nearly the same exact jazz ensemble format lineup. I think that's what he is going after anyways from what I heard in the clip. the Tony later 90's quintet period sound and as heard also in his introduction solo.

I'm sure he will take it to the next step because i'm impressed where he has taken it so far.......

[con struct]

Well, but how do you know that SImon Phillips hasn't studied post-bop drumming?

Because you can hear it in the delivery of his playing in the clip......

Okay, and now we're getting to the heart of the matter. You say can hear it in the delivery, and I believe you, but what if he's been an avid student of bop and post-bop drumming for many years and the way he's playing here is the result of all that study?
What if he's decided to approach it in a different way, a way more to his liking and more the way he wants to express his take on this music?
Look at what people said about Monk. "All wrong," "clumsy," "no technique." And these were jazz guys saying that. I mention Monk because he never changed his approach, the rest of the jazz scene changed its perception of his approach.
Now of course I'm not comparing Simon Phillips to Thelonious Monk. But I do have to wonder about the idea that studying a style of music will always lead to the same way of playing it.

[Steamer]

Okay, and now we're getting to the heart of the matter. You say can hear it in the delivery, and I believe you, but what if he's been an avid student of bop and post-bop drumming for many years and the way he's playing here is the result of all that study?
What if he's decided to approach it in a different way, a way more to his liking and more the way he wants to express his take on this music?
Look at what people said about Monk. "All wrong," "clumsy," "no technique." And these were jazz guys saying that. I mention Monk because he never changed his approach, the rest of the jazz scene changed its perception of his approach.
Now of course I'm not comparing Simon Phillips to Thelonious Monk. But I do have to wonder about the idea that studying a style of music will always lead to the same way of playing it.

Unfair comparison really. Monk WAS a revolutionary jazz figure BUT he was coming from a very specific deeply rooted tradition that came before him in jazz to which he branched off of. Monk was THE master of syncopation'conterpoint in his writing and ensemble playing {soloing/comping} too don't forget. Certainly a "jazz based" musician his entire career but many didn't get Monk at the time it was going down.

Look at the way Ken hinted at it. Simon is obviously playing with a backup band of seasoned jazz pros. You can hear in their playing, I can. And like Ken said since he's playing in that specific format with these people playing off the same common "language" of music why not play more off the piano players syncopated comping figures and such rather than finishing phrases and such by leaning heavy on the downbeats of the bars instead missing the moment of the locking up on the buoyant extra push in the ensemble that could be happening as just one example worth pointing out. Doesn't sound like a new take on drum innovations or "my take on it" but more of lack of experience with a common jazz language and rules of engagement that seems better shared by the rest of the musicians playing the music on the stage during the tune other than the drummer in this case. He's working on it for sure but he's no master of the complex jazz ensemble language yet.

Just my thoughts and observations take it or leave it, no worries..........

[Naigewron]

Watching Neil Peart play swing was like watching Dave Weckl play rock. They may have some theory knowledge, but fail miserably when trying to put it into practice. This, however, was quite excellent, and I don't even normaly really like jazz. As for the bass drum, I can't stand the tiny, highly tuned bop bass drums, and I thought Simon's sounded great.

[con struct]

He's working on it for sure but he's no master of the complex jazz ensemble language yet.

Well that's a pretty lofty statement. I very much doubt that Simon Phillips is making any claims that he's a "master of the complex jazz ensemble language." It looks to me that he just likes to play jazz.
Surely you don't consider yourself to be a master of the complex jazz ensemble language, do you?
How many jazz drummers could be considered to be masters of the complex jazz ensemble language? All of them, just because they play jazz? Is every jazz drummer on every jazz record or CD you own a master of the complex jazz ensemble language? Come on.
I don't buy the idea that it's necessary to study jazz for year after year before you can be considered a jazz musician. I think one is a jazz musician because that's the kind of music he plays.
I'm going to say something that's really going to cause a lot of people here to take umbrage. I just don't think that jazz can be all that hard to play. Obviously it's learnable or else nobody would know how to do it. I think jazz could benefit from lightening up a little. Saying that you must play the drums like Philly Joe Jones or you must play the trumpet like Clifford Brown or you must play the bass like Ron Carter, that's just setting up impossible goals to reach, and if everyone did do that then jazz would just be a music filled with imitators, not innovators.
But come to think of it...
You think that the jazz ensemble language should be complex. I don't think any kind of music should be or has to be anything other than what the creator of that music wants it to be.
Just my thoughts and observations, take it or leave it, no worries.

[Steamer]

Well that's a pretty lofty statement. I very much doubt that Simon Phillips is making any claims that he's a "master of the complex jazz ensemble language." It looks to me that he just likes to play jazz.
Surely you don't consider yourself to be a master of the complex jazz ensemble language, do you?
How many jazz drummers could be considered to be masters of the complex jazz ensemble language? All of them, just because they play jazz? Is every jazz drummer on every jazz record or CD you own a master of the complex jazz ensemble language? Come on.
I don't buy the idea that it's necessary to study jazz for year after year before you can be considered a jazz musician. I think one is a jazz musician because that's the kind of music he plays.
I'm going to say something that's really going to cause a lot of people here to take umbrage. I just don't think that jazz can be all that hard to play. Obviously it's learnable or else nobody would know how to do it. I think jazz could benefit from lightening up a little. Saying that you must play the drums like Philly Joe Jones or you must play the trumpet like Clifford Brown or you must play the bass like Ron Carter, that's just setting up impossible goals to reach, and if everyone did do that then jazz would just be a music filled with imitators, not innovators.
But come to think of it...
You think that the jazz ensemble language should be complex. I don't think any kind of music should be or has to be anything other than what the creator of that music wants it to be.
Just my thoughts and observations, take it or leave it, no worries.


Learn the language, play the music.... I did and have for some 34 years now. My clips are out there for all to see in the playing section draw your own conclusions on where I stand as a veteran jazz player on the subject of which I speak........ mastering to me simply means covering all the elements and fundamentals needed to learn the music with a sense of depth and speaking it with your own voice after the fact.

Jazz does have a complex language all of its own but you can learn to speak it freely in a flowing relaxed conversational manner with liked minded musicians when you''ve done your homework on the subject. Not a lofty comment but basic musical common sense applied to everyone learning this or any other craft. If some important elements are missing the finished effect isn't totally covered, that's my point.

If you want to argue back and forth for the sake of argument on what makes for elements of jazz language or some basic common sense stuff applied to this music i've done my best.

I enjoyed the clip very much but if I want the real jazz deal i'll listen Tony, Elvin, Eric etc.. deliver all the important details in this type of ensemble setting needed to deliver it to the max to my "jazz" ears. Just me....

[Pollyanna]

Jazz is a language with many accents. I'd see Simon as being in a room of native jazz speakers and he was speaking jazz with a prog accent.

Monsieur Simon ... how do you zay it? ... may not 'ave zee same breadth of vocabulary in zat language, but some accents sound magnifique :)

[Deltadrummer]

Unfair comparison really. Monk WAS a revolutionary jazz figure BUT he was coming from a very specific deeply rooted tradition that came before him in jazz to which he branched off of. Monk was THE master of syncopation' conterpoint in his writing and ensemble playing {soloing/comping} too don't forget. Certainly a "jazz based" musician his entire career but many didn't get Monk at the time it was going down.

Look at the way Ken hinted at it. Simon is obviously playing with a backup band of seasoned jazz pros. You can hear in their playing, I can. And like Ken said since he's playing in that specific format with these people playing off the same common "language" of music why not play more off the piano players syncopated comping figures and such rather than finishing phrases and such by leaning heavy on the downbeats of the bars instead missing the moment of the locking up on the buoyant extra push in the ensemble that could be happening as just one example worth pointing out. Doesn't sound like a new take on drum innovations or "my take on it" but more of lack of experience with a common jazz language and rules of engagement that seems better shared by the rest of the musicians playing the music on the stage during the tune other than the drummer in this case. He's working on it for sure but he's no master of the complex jazz ensemble language yet.

Just my thoughts and observations take it or leave it, no worries..........


Yes, exactly. These guys know what they are doing and Simon is the 'name.' How do I know that he hasn't studied post-bop drumming? Because the situation calls for the type of over the bar line syncopated playing that Stan is referencing. Simon is playing very routinely, which is what you play when you are not versed in the style. It is not innovative. As you become more versed in the style, you learn how to expand and free up the feel of the groove outside of a straight ride cymbal pattern with very predictable hits. It becomes the over the bar line-interactive phrasing associated with the great hard bop and post bop drummers mentioned. The fact these players can do this is the reason guys love their playing. They are the master of this style. It is no crime to emulate what they are doing.

[Steamer]

Yes, exactly. These guys know what they are doing and Simon is the 'name.' How do I know that he hasn't studied post-bop drumming? Because the situation calls for the type of over the bar line syncopated playing that Stan is referencing. Simon is playing very routinely, which is what you play when you are not versed in the style. It is not innovative. As you become more versed in the style, you learn how to expand and free up the feel of the groove outside of a straight ride cymbal pattern with very predictable hits. It becomes the over the bar line-interactive phrasing associated with the great hard bop and post bop drummers mentioned. The fact these players can do this is the reason guys love their playing. They are the master of this style. It is no crime to emulate what they are doing.


Gotta fly to a gig but thanks Ken for adding more to this "uncomplex" discussion when it comes to covering certain essential basic elements heard in jazz drumming in a ensemble situation like the one posted.

Mastering again simply means knowing the language of your instrument in any given music at hand BEFORE extending on it.

[JRH7]

Well that's a pretty lofty statement. I very much doubt that Simon Phillips is making any claims that he's a "master of the complex jazz ensemble language." It looks to me that he just likes to play jazz.
Surely you don't consider yourself to be a master of the complex jazz ensemble language, do you?
How many jazz drummers could be considered to be masters of the complex jazz ensemble language? All of them, just because they play jazz? Is every jazz drummer on every jazz record or CD you own a master of the complex jazz ensemble language? Come on.
I don't buy the idea that it's necessary to study jazz for year after year before you can be considered a jazz musician. I think one is a jazz musician because that's the kind of music he plays.
I'm going to say something that's really going to cause a lot of people here to take umbrage. I just don't think that jazz can be all that hard to play. Obviously it's learnable or else nobody would know how to do it. I think jazz could benefit from lightening up a little. Saying that you must play the drums like Philly Joe Jones or you must play the trumpet like Clifford Brown or you must play the bass like Ron Carter, that's just setting up impossible goals to reach, and if everyone did do that then jazz would just be a music filled with imitators, not innovators.
But come to think of it...
You think that the jazz ensemble language should be complex. I don't think any kind of music should be or has to be anything other than what the creator of that music wants it to be.
Just my thoughts and observations, take it or leave it, no worries.


Well Said!_____________________________________________ ____________

J.

[con struct]

How do I know that he hasn't studied post-bop drumming? Because the situation calls for the type of over the bar line syncopated playing that Stan is referencing.

No, you're just saying that it calls for that. Is that a rule, the "over the bar line syncopated" thing? Is everything in jazz drumming played exactly that way and that way only?
Maybe the guy who wrote that song didn't want Phillips to play over the bar line syncopated stuff.
Let's look at it another way. We have the song, the song that Simon Phillips played the drums on, and he played it the way he played. Would any and every "real" jazz drummer play the type of over the bar line syncopation that you're talking about in the way that you mean? Would, say, Ben Riley play it like that, or Shadow Wilson, or Pete La Roca, or Willie Jones? And if they didn't would they also be guilty of not having mastered the "complex jazz ensemble language?"

[Deltadrummer]

Yes, they would. Shadow Wilson was dead even before this style emerged. Pete LaRocca plays in this style. Stan, can play in this style and has been for decades. I have been studying and playing in this style for a few years now and listening to it all my life. It's not rocket science. If someone is being innovative, then there is innovation. If someone is not, then there is no innovation. it is exactly as Stan said, if you are going to play in the style, you need to know that history of the style.

[con struct]

if you are going to play in the style, you need to know that history of the style.

And you're quite sure that Simon Phillips does not know that history, is that correct?
"Shadow Wilson was dead even before this style emerged." Umm..we are talking about Shadow Wilson (http://www.drummerworld.com/drummers/Shadow_Wilson.html), right? Are you saying that he died too soon to be aquainted with over the bar line syncopated playing?
Maybe you need to brush up on your history of that style, because what he plays on "Thelonious Monk With John Coltrane at Carnegie Hall" sounds pretty convincing to me.

[Pollyanna]

if you are going to play in the style, you need to know that history of the style.

As a general rule and when it comes to a prog drummer playing with a group of jazzmen, sure. However, if that principle was absolute then a number of new styles and approaches would not have been be created. Most times naivete is not an asset, but as they say, "Out of the mouths of babes ...". Sometimes intuition and/or soul without a whole lot of historical grounding can lead to interesting approaches.

Punk
Brian Eno
Ornette Coleman
Jackson Pollock
The first bluesmen
Moe Tucker

Sorry if my comment seems too anal, Ken, and I'm aware that the above are exceptions rather than the rule. Just that your statement seems too absolute and blanket to me and would need qualifiers not to jar.

[Mediocrefunkybeat]

Actually, Eno has a big background in what he does. If you read a few of his articles...

[Pollyanna]

Actually, Eno has a big background in what he does. If you read a few of his articles...

But not in music, MFB. My understanding is that he was an art guy before starting up with Roxy.

[Mediocrefunkybeat]

Yes, he was, but that doesn't make him musically naive. Far from it. You ought to read the 'Ambient Manifesto' in the front of 'Music for Airports'. There are a number of other works out there, I have a compilation of musical writings for my degree and he is heavily featured. Art guys often understand music far better than musicians - they have the 'outsider edge' and a lot of the thought processes are the same, especially from an aesthetic standpoint. Stockhausen has his parallels with Picasso, Van Gogh with Debussy. The same idea, two different fields.

[Pollyanna]

Yes, he was, but that doesn't make him musically naive. Far from it. You ought to read the 'Ambient Manifesto' in the front of 'Music for Airports'. There are a number of other works out there, I have a compilation of musical writings for my degree and he is heavily featured. Art guys often understand music far better than musicians - they have the 'outsider edge' and a lot of the thought processes are the same, especially from an aesthetic standpoint. Stockhausen has his parallels with Picasso, Van Gogh with Debussy. The same idea, two different fields.

Great comment, MFB. It deserves its own thread.

http://www.drummerworld.com/forums/showthread.php?t=55018

[Deltadrummer]

But not in music, MFB. My understanding is that he was an art guy before starting up with Roxy.

Talk to Eno and he is surprised that anyone actually takes his art seriously as music.
This type of a discussion quickly becomes an exercise in futility because people don't understand the fundamental concept that if he were doing something innovative he would be taking the style to a new level. But what he is doing is routine. I think Phillips is a great drummer and if playing in this style is his project, he will develop it quite well. I am sure he knows the style well; but I would need to see an example of him playing doing something with it before I am going to respect his interpretation of it. To suggest that we should accept his playing on face value because he is a name is to suggest that we use no aesthetic judgment of our own. That is definitely not a road I am gong to go down. I am not going to say taht everything is value neutral. That is just nonsense.

[con struct]

This type of a discussion quickly becomes an exercise in futility because people don't understand the fundamental concept that if he were doing something innovative he would be taking the style to a new level. But what he is doing is routine.

And what's wrong with that? Nobody has said that SImon Phillips is an innovative jazz drummer.
I mean really now. Who's such an innovative jazz drummer? You? Do you play nothing that could be considered routine? If so I'd very much like to hear you play sometime.

[Pollyanna]

To suggest that we should accept his playing on face value because he is a name is to suggest that we use no aesthetic judgment of our own. That is definitely not a road I am gong to go down. I am not going to say taht everything is value neutral. That is just nonsense.

No one suggested that, Ken. I didn't say or suggest that Simon's performance was innovative or that everyone must enjoy it because it's The Great Simon Phillips. It's just that I didn't relate to the blanket statement you made in general because I don't relate to blanket statements. I thought you'd be ok about qualifying it. If you missed my point then I'm sorry for not making myself clear.

As for crossing of bar lines, lots of non-jazzers use the device at times. Even I do it because "unsquaring" can keep a passage or transition from sounding stiff. If I'm familiar with the concept then Simon certainly is.

Simon may have decided to play the theme squared off as a matter of taste. After all, he's played an awful lot of sessions and probably likes things to be tidy :) Perhaps the issue is that elements of his prog tastes have leaked into his jazz performance? At least he didn't play double-kick 16ths ...

[RobertM]

You can also watch this clip of the Vantage performance in which Simon discusses his upbringing in playing jazz in his dad's band in England. He does have a history in jazz and wide, deep set of experience in playing styles, just different from many of the American masters (Philly Joe, Shadow, Roy, Elvin, etc.):

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HcQTKi0ID38

Obviously, Simon can play jazz, and this piece demonstrates that he can play it quite well and with some flair, as, I think, Steamer noted.

His kind of jazz playing reminds me of Bill Bruford's in Earthworks: very good, very accomplished, but different than players who immerse themselves fully in the tradition (e.g., when you listen to Miles, Coltrane, Monk, Herbie, Joshua Redman, etc., and hear the drummers there). As others have noted, Simon (and Bill) has extensive experience as a rock/fusion drummer, even though he (and Bill) started with jazz and had jazz as one of his first inspirations.

I think what's really at heart here is immersion. From my experience in teaching and research (in humanities, not music), if you want to really learn something well and do it well, then immersion is necessary--at least for most of us. Whether it is literary study, science, math, philosophy, a style of music, I think you must put in your time to inhabit the space of your field of study/interest. The more you do this, the better your chance at getting a deeper knowledge of your subject, and the easier it becomes for you to call upon such skills when needed.

Players like Blakey, Elvin, Haynes and most other greats mainly spent their entire careers mastering jazz and forging new directions in jazz. They were not playing rock sessions or fusion sessions or pop sessions. Not even Tony's hybrid Lifetime stuff is really rock, in my opinion; it is still heavily jazz oriented. A player like Simon has a bit of the Renaissance man about him, in a way: he can play a massive variety of styles extremely well, but by doing this perhaps he sacrifices time and focus. He is a solid all-around player, but, because of this focus, he will probably always have a hard time playing jazz at a deeper or more sophisticated level. This is not a criticism of him or his playing--it is just a simple observation of where a player has chosen to invest her or his time and energy. You can have a jazz player who has spent 40 years in jazz, while Simon has spent equal time mainly playing rock/fusion with some jazz and other styles mixed in. Will the jazz player sound different when it comes to jazz? Yes, because in this example the jazz player has a lot more focused experienced in a style. Whether people want to label that difference as "authentic," etc., is up to them, I suppose.

Note: I will qualify my immersion argument by noting that if you don't learn how to study well and smartly, then there is a good chance that progression will not happen. Immersion, by itself, doesn't guarantee growth and mastery. Hence why we all benefit from good teachers (Alan Dawson, Ed Soph, Gary Chaffe, etc.)!

As for the point about the sound of Simon's playing, I think that has more to do with the fact that he's got clear heads on his Starclassic Maples and doesn't appear to have his bass or toms tuned to the usual high bop pitch. Tune up a bit and put coated heads on the drums, and they'll sound different.

I will add, as a side note, I'm glad to see Eric Harland's name mentioned in this thread. He is a phenomenal jazz player. I think he and Matt Wilson represent some of the best playing in jazz today: steeped in history but pushing forward at the same time, with fun experimentation.

[Deltadrummer]

Why should I go see him play? That is the question. There are so many great players out there without the name. I'd like to hear a little more of that free style in the beginning of the clip you shared on the previous one. The interview really isn't interesting to me. I've heard Simon speak before and he doesn't much that interests me.

You do need to immerse yourselves in the tradition to really do something with the music, and I am wondering if this is what Simon Phillips is focused on now. But even as such, I think what Steamer and I were concerned about is that on this particular track, it seemed that there is much going on musically that the drummer is not a part of and that two and four in the HH actually gets annoying after a while. It seems that about hald way through the time needs to start to relax and he keeps driving it.

Part of the sound/dynamic problem is the drum set; it's a hybrid maple-bubinga, isn't it? It's loud. He even has a screen. I really don't want to go see a jazz player who plays behind a screen. Does that sound silly? Should it really?

[Steamer]

You can also watch this clip of the Vantage performance in which Simon discusses his upbringing in playing jazz in his dad's band in England. He does have a history in jazz and wide, deep set of experience in playing styles, just different from many of the American masters (Philly Joe, Shadow, Roy, Elvin, etc.):

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HcQTKi0ID38

Obviously, Simon can play jazz, and this piece demonstrates that he can play it quite well and with some flair, as, I think, Steamer noted.

His kind of jazz playing reminds me of Bill Bruford's in Earthworks: very good, very accomplished, but different than players who immerse themselves fully in the tradition (e.g., when you listen to Miles, Coltrane, Monk, Herbie, Joshua Redman, etc., and hear the drummers there). As others have noted, Simon (and Bill) has extensive experience as a rock/fusion drummer, even though he (and Bill) started with jazz and had jazz as one of his first inspirations.

I think what's really at heart here is immersion. From my experience in teaching and research (in humanities, not music), if you want to really learn something well and do it well, then immersion is necessary--at least for most of us. Whether it is literary study, science, math, philosophy, a style of music, I think you must put in your time to inhabit the space of your field of study/interest. The more you do this, the better your chance at getting a deeper knowledge of your subject, and the easier it becomes for you to call upon such skills when needed.

Players like Blakey, Elvin, Haynes and most other greats mainly spent their entire careers mastering jazz and forging new directions in jazz. They were not playing rock sessions or fusion sessions or pop sessions. Not even Tony's hybrid Lifetime stuff is really rock, in my opinion; it is still heavily jazz oriented. A player like Simon has a bit of the Renaissance man about him, in a way: he can play a massive variety of styles extremely well, but by doing this perhaps he sacrifices time and focus. He is a solid all-around player, but, because of this focus, he will probably always have a hard time playing jazz at a deeper or more sophisticated level. This is not a criticism of him or his playing--it is just a simple observation of where a player has chosen to invest her or his time and energy. You can have a jazz player who has spent 40 years in jazz, while Simon has spent equal time mainly playing rock/fusion with some jazz and other styles mixed in. Will the jazz player sound different when it comes to jazz? Yes, because in this example the jazz player has a lot more focused experienced in a style. Whether people want to label that difference as "authentic," etc., is up to them, I suppose.

Note: I will qualify my immersion argument by noting that if you don't learn how to study well and smartly, then there is a good chance that progression will not happen. Immersion, by itself, doesn't guarantee growth and mastery. Hence why we all benefit from good teachers (Alan Dawson, Ed Soph, Gary Chaffe, etc.)!

As for the point about the sound of Simon's playing, I think that has more to do with the fact that he's got clear heads on his Starclassic Maples and doesn't appear to have his bass or toms tuned to the usual high bop pitch. Tune up a bit and put coated heads on the drums, and they'll sound different.

I will add, as a side note, I'm glad to see Eric Harland's name mentioned in this thread. He is a phenomenal jazz player. I think he and Matt Wilson represent some of the best playing in jazz today: steeped in history but pushing forward at the same time, with fun experimentation.

Great post and perceptive comments as always I hear coming from you Robert.

If he intented to play more straight and square well the rest of the seasoned jazz musicians on the clip in the band were playing more open and rounded being more buoyant and syncopated in their comping, phrasing and soloing off the jazz tradition then I agree that I missed his musical intention and point of reference he was after. If on the other hand he was trying to replicate the vibe of the mid 90's Tony band which I think was his intent I hear coming from the overall direction of the performance his concept he didn't quite secure the same level of full intent of all the required jazz drumming elements in the same musical basket to hit the complete home run Tony did doing the same music night after night containing the same fusion of elements in primarily a jazz based ensemble setting.

Listen to what Eric Harland or Brian Blade can do within the same post Bop idiom as seen in the clip which to me has them more connected to a more complete jazz concept going on with other musicians on stage. If Simon intended to seperate the two concepts of playing happening at the same time within the music that's certainly his choice but it doesn't sound as effective to my ears as everybody on stage being on the same {jazz} page.

Anyway its all positive because in its own way having a chap of this stature taking a stab at this kind of music might attract more younger players currently sitting on the fence about listening to or liking jazz to take a deeper look at the complete history of the music... which of coarse is a good thing in my view.

[keep it simple]

What can I say guys? I checked this thread out after being away for a day, expecting maybe 1 or 2 extra replies and I find this!! Thanks for putting some energy into the debate. I've certainly learnt a lot from the guys here with a sound knowledge of jazz. I asked the question because I felt hugely under qualified to satisfy my own intrigue. In my very poorly informed opinion, the performance left me a bit cold. He didn't nail it as a rock player nor did he approch the piece with the syncopation and avoidance of first beat in the bar accent I'd expected. Don't get me wrong here, a whole ton better than I could achieve but not up to the usual Phillips innovation approach. Take his playing with his band, Protocol http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3H0tm-Hs9qo from 92. For most rock drummers, a really uncomfortable departure, yet he performed this with a certainty of purpose. That clarity of direction is missing on the jazz piece we're discussing. A sort of "on the fence" performance. I'm no good at analyzing the finer defining points of this feeling, it's just the vibe I pick up.

I've seen Simon many times. Unless you've seen him live, it's almost impossible to appreciate the power, dynamics and musicallity of this man. I can honestly say I've never been as impressed by any other player live as I have by Simon Phillips. This one just misses the mark for me, as does the latest PSP stuff I've heard to date, oh so clever but devoid of passion.

[Deltadrummer]

He is a very musical player and he knows to surround himself with great players, Anthony Jackson here. He is a great fusion drummer and certainly looks like he is having a good time on this clip.

[pbloxam]

I believe Simon started out in his fathers Big Band and later moved on....

Therefore, early on, he was playing big band music, some jazz and his early infuences are all jazz related...

The performance on the video was excellent in my opinion...

While I am not fond of his association with Babko as it takes away from his monstrous playing...

I have most of Simon's solo stuff, with Beck, Priest, Toto, members of the Who, instructional DVD's, etc...

The guys on hundreds of albums....

One of my favorite players of all time..Just saw him play with Greg Howe, Eddie Jobson, Trey Gunn, and Marco Minneman on duel drums!!!!

Amazing!!!!

The guy can play anything with authority!!! I watched them tear up Mahavishnu material as though it was a cakewalk!!!!

Yeah, he can jazz it too!!!!

[jivadayadasa]

IMO a thread about Simon Phillips isn't complete without mentioning his work on 801 Live with Phil Manzanera and Brian Eno.

His power, energy, tightness and speed was awesome on East of Asteroid (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=39eHgk5b1Ek) from that album, which was a mashup of Phil's East of Echo and Quiet Sun's Mummy Was an Asteroid, Daddy Was a Small Non-Stick Kitchen Utensil (yes, that's what it was called :)

It's hard not to like a guy who can not only do the "herd of stampeding elephants" double kick thing and super smooth grace notes.

As a side note, Quiet Sun was an experimental project of Phil M's while he was still with Roxy and featured the excellent Charles Hayward on kit and Bill McCormack on bass.

OMG! This was one of the albums that got me drumming way back when. Stunning finesse and power - I was just listening to this the other day with an old friend (TNK). I am so glad you mentioned this - thank you!

I have been working on some grooves that are inspired by Simon's playing. It has got me open-handed and like a fish out of water... I really like when he plays an ostinato on the hat with left hand, accents around toms w/ right hand, then seamlessly switches to right hand on hat (same exact ostinato), left accenting drums to the left of his hat.

I am trying to develop my weaker side (left) and use some of his sticking. It's like deep tissue massage: painful to do but I like how I feel afterwards.

[Roger//]

Very unique style with heads and tuning.
If you heard him soundcheck, sounds little too high when someone else plays.
But... when Simon sits down... mg!
Tried clear Ambassadors on my bassdrum. Sounds great. Just one problem for me...
Far less control over my playing, becouse the head is moving so much....

great drummer, one of my favs!

[Mad About Drums]

Heys guys

This thread's for the fans of the muli-styles talented super session drummer Simon Phillips who has recorded with hundreds of artists in almost any styles of music.

The idea of this thread is to show and share some of Simon's little gems and treasures through his, sometimes, not so well know brilliant work via the mean of videos, mp3, mp4 etc.

I have followed Simon's career from 1980, I eventually went back to the start of his session work from 1974.

So please post your videos and mp3 of Simon's rare or forgotten recordings here on this thread. I'll be delighted to discover "new" tracks I didn't know about.


So here's the first 4 links to start this thread with some magic grooves from the Man:

Sunshine of Your Love by Toto from Through The Looking Glass, I know it's not really a rarity, but it's a special one for Andy, I know he loves to play this track :-))

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BjaYkRO9Bsg

Behind your Dark Eyes by Bernie Marsden (Whitesnake, Alaska) from Look at Me Know (1981). A lovely 16th notes feel in this groove...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UU3J3FEkcL4&feature=related

Camino Real by Duncan Brown from The Wild Places (1978), a very young Simon on this track, with John Giblin on bass (later in the 80's he played for Simple Minds).

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eKpDxJvKCCI

Head The Ball by Bernie Marsden (again) from And About Time Too (1979), dream rythm section here, Jack Bruce and Simon, phheeww!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u_9zriz_wRE

Enjoy!

And if you have an anecdote about Simon, tell us the story...

And please post some vids :-))

[Ian Williams]

Hi MAD,

First off - well done, nicely structured and put on reality.
Now I'm enjoying my time with this thread and fixing to come back for the attack with some Simon's B-sides - The Rarities...which I like the most.

Simon Phillips - Dancing Men / Buddy Rich Burning For Buddy.

Check: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KlnS-ViVte0&feature=related

Michael Schenker Group - Simon Phillips Drum Solo, 2010

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DSmU62Z41bg

Cheers,

Ian

[Mad About Drums]

Hi MAD,

First off - well done, nicely structured and put on reality.
Now I'm enjoying my time with this thread and fixing to come back for the attack with some Simon's B-sides - The Rarities...which I like the most.

Simon Phillips - Dancing Men / Buddy Rich Burning For Buddy.

Check: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KlnS-ViVte0&feature=related

Michael Schenker Group - Simon Phillips Drum Solo, 2010

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DSmU62Z41bg

Cheers,

Ian

Hi Ian

Thanks for the kind comments

Loved this version of Dancing Men, Big Band drumming requires big energy as well as subtility, Simon's got it all, loved the drums & bass bridge, amazing...

The solo with MSG show Simon's more athletics approach while soloing in a heavy rock contest. I do have the original Michael shenker's Group "Armed and Ready" album circa early 80's, but unfortunately, only on vinyl record, so it lays in a box in a cupboard (sigh...)

Thanks for posting

Cheers :-))

[keep it simple]

Fantastic thread!!!!! Although I've posted a clip of this gig before, this is a different video. Finesse = no. Vibe, dynamics, skill, groove, balls = oh man, yes yes yes!!!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F8qE5srP4dE&feature=related = incredible drumming energy in the last section :)

[Mad About Drums]

Fantastic thread!!!!! Although I've posted a clip of this gig before, this is a different video. Finesse = no. Vibe, dynamics, skill, groove, balls = oh man, yes yes yes!!!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F8qE5srP4dE&feature=related = incredible drumming energy in the last section :)

I like your description of the feel of this song, quite accurate...

I've got the DVD of this gig and the Steve Lukather's studio album with the featured song, During Simon solo, I've always asked myself " how the 3 guys can keep the ostinato going without loosing it? Simon's going all over the place and they keep the groove going. Simply amazing...

Thanks for posting it Andy, it's so good for our ears...

[Mad About Drums]

Hi guys

Well, so far, so good... I'll post a couple of track everyday for a few days.

Here are the 2 links for today's post:

Rod Stewart's Sailing by Rock Against Repatriation (1990), a charity single and video featuring various artists. Simon and Pino Palladino are the rythm section here, very creative and subtle groove in the first part of the song and then... well... you watch the video and you tell me...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6S-x54SxlI0

Hymn To Her by the Pretenders (1986), aaah! Chrissie Hynde's voice... and a subtle groove from our man... Enjoy!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CGWyPJYJc4o

That's it for today guys

[Mad About Drums]

As promised, here are the 2 videos highlighting the grooves and moods of legendary Simon Phillips...

"In The Night" by Russ Ballard first solo album (1984), Simon's and Mo Foster on bass, a rock solid groove (with that nice 16th note's feel on the bass drum).

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bF6cRvc8fFE

"T.N.K. (Tomorrow Never Knows)" the Beatles' cover by 801 live (1976), a very young Simon already showing patterns that are his trademarks.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZkCQOdQ0Q8A&feature=related

Enjoy!

A couple's more tomorrow...

[mikeybbdrummin]

Check out Simon on Derek Sherinian's new cd Oceana...............w/Macalpine, Lukather, Bonamasso, S.Stevens and D. Aldrich..................good fusion going on!

[Mad About Drums]

Check out Simon on Derek Sherinian's new cd Oceana...............w/Macalpine, Lukather, Bonamasso, S.Stevens and D. Aldrich..................good fusion going on!

Hey! Thanks Mickey B, that's awesome... AND the album has been recorded and produced by Simon Phillips in his studio!!! Wow, this is good.

A couple of songs from that album:

Oceana : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ayuXNeRLMHQ&feature=related

Five Elements : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gccWtV0fXGw

Enjoy! ...I did :-)

[Mad About Drums]

Hey folks,

Not as much posts as I would like to see on this thread, but I see that it has been viewed quite a few times... so I'll posts some more.

On today's post I want to share with you some fast shuffles from Simon. Stamina and endurance at it's best.

"Space Boogie" by Jeff Beck from the album There And Back (1980), fast, ghost notes, dynamics and it's in 7/4.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ij7yR0LubxY

"Face The Face" by Pete Towhsend (The Who) from the album White City (1986), this is a live version at the Brixton Academy Theater in Brixton, London (same year 1986) (I was there !!!),he play the secondary snare with his left hand and the suffle on hats with the right hand and when he switch to the main snare, it's the opposite way, impressive, he's completely ambidextrous.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k5R-b6wyN6w&feature=related

"Moonshine" by Ian Gillan (Deep Purple) from the album Naked Thunder (1990), a driving suffle groove with a splendid Phillips trademark's intro.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lcwlgPM07D8

Enjoy!

[Tamastar]

Check out this video on YouTube:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s0opdoZJRZ4&feature=youtube_gdata_player

Guys, great thread !
Check this rare one out - Shankar 1979 with frank Zappa producing. It's a "Little Stinker"!!

Enjoy.... :-)

[Mad About Drums]

Check out this video on YouTube:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s0opdoZJRZ4&feature=youtube_gdata_player

Guys, great thread !
Check this rare one out - Shankar 1979 with frank Zappa producing. It's a "Little Stinker"!!

Enjoy.... :-)

Hey Tamastar

WHAT a find man! ...I knew that Simon had recorded for Shankar, I read this in a Simon's interview in Modern Drummer years ago, but I never been able to find it... until NOW. I see that from this link to YouTube that we can listen to the whole album, well I know what I'm listening tonight.

Thank you sooooooooooooo much! :-))

[keep it simple]

Just got back to here, & listened to every link. Truly great stuff, & a real display of just how prolific Simon is over 35 years (& probably longer) of music making. & that's the key phrase here, music making. I know of no other player who has immersed himself so successfully into so many genres.

Sorry guys, I don't have any clips to offer now. I'm largely ignorant of who's who detail, but super interested to hear what comes up.

[Mad About Drums]

...super interested to hear what comes up.

Thanks Andy... makes it worthwile to upload some more.

Here's a couple tracks from the master's master.

"Shadow On The Wall" by Mike Oldfield from the album Crises (1983) co-produced by Simon Phillips.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pFKwyzb5S34

"Romani" by Mike Rutherford's (Genesis) first solo album Smallcreep's Day (1980) a groovy song in odd time signature by "Si Phi"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wzzu8hd4Gs4&feature=related

Enjoy!

[Ian Williams]

Protocol Band performing "Cosmos" circa 1992:

Simon Phillips - Cosmos:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jb8k53ZzJbc&feature=results_video&playnext=1&list=PLA90A23C297A3DBAF

Enjoy The Master...

[Ian Williams]

Simon Phillips - Official Website: http://www.simon-phillips.com/cms/

[Mad About Drums]

Hi Guys

Just found these videos on YouTube: Simon Phillips and Gavin Harrison duets.

Part 1 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y6YooxOTsus&feature=relmfu
Part 2 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dPf39uh1Mdk&feature=relmfu
Part 3 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O3Yx41LSmXI&feature=relmfu
Part 4 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qV1Arl7Z2Ls&feature=related

Enjoy!

[Mad About Drums]

Hi Chaps

Today's post's mood is rock groove by powerhouse's Simon Phillips

Here's couple of tracks for you to enjoy...

"What Would You Rather Bee Or A Wasp" by Gary Moore (R.I.P.) from the album Back On The Streets (1978) a rock/fusion piece with amazing drumming.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t2Lba-lxh-g

"We're Not In Kansas" by Big Country from the album The Buffalo Skinners (1993) This is an interesting track, it's the only BC album without original drummer Mark Brzezicki who at the time went off to the world of session drumming, he's replaced here by Simon who's laying a really powerful groove that suit the song perfectly. The other interesting story of that song is that it's already been recorded by Brzezicki's on the album "No Place Like Home" (1991) and the difference between the two versions is amazing, not just from a drumming point of view, the whole vibes of the song is different.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Btm9EGN6u94 (Simon Phillips)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M2vduLlsG3g (Mark Brzezicki)

[Mad About Drums]

Hello again DrummerFriends

The saga continues with today's couple tracks...

"Free" by Asia from the album Aura (2001), Simon's in "Prog Rock" mode, groovy...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8MvQm1IEGg8&feature=related

"Jane" by John Wetton (Asia, King Crimson, Uriah Heep) from the album Battle Lines (1994), co-written by Simon Phillips and featuring Steve Lukather from Toto, a goog catchy song with a double bass drums pattern in the chorus...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l-DsG__S5t4

Enjoy!

[keep it simple]

Really loving this stuff coming out of the woodwork! Again, some fantastic Simon playing examples. The two versions of the Big Country track were an eye opener. I'm especially liking the John Wetton track, just wonderful.

[Mad About Drums]

Really loving this stuff coming out of the woodwork! Again, some fantastic Simon playing examples. The two versions of the Big Country track were an eye opener. I'm especially liking the John Wetton track, just wonderful.

Thanks Andy, I'm glad you're enjoying the thread...

Here's today's post...

"Gift Of Faith" by Toto from the album Tambu (1995) First Toto studio album with Simon as legitimate new drummer replacement for the so much missed Jeff Porcaro, this is the first track of the album.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1QMX5t4La2c&feature=related

"Blood Of Emeralds" by Gary Moore from the album After The War (1989) A 12/8 rock groove with power and energy, and as for the outro double bass patterns is concerned... well I rest my case.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aJVprlsokvc

Enjoy!

[keep it simple]

"Gift Of Faith" by Toto from the album Tambu (1995) First Toto studio album with Simon as legitimate new drummer replacement for the so much missed Jeff Porcaro, this is the first track of the album.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1QMX5t4La2c&feature=related


Ah, now this one I do know, & know well. One of my favourite rock groove tracks, from one of my favourite albums. Yes, we all miss Jeff, but oh boy, did Simon stamp his mark on Toto with this album!

[keep it simple]

Here's one for you. No doubting who's playing on this recording, despite the lack of credits:

The Who, Dallas, 1989: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qaJuUGdovSU&feature=related

[Mad About Drums]

Here's one for you. No doubting who's playing on this recording, despite the lack of credits:

The Who, Dallas, 1989: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qaJuUGdovSU&feature=related

Simon had to fill the shoes of an irreplacable drummer, the most crazy of all drummers, Keith Moon, and while not copying Moonie (which is a good thing) he did a great job with the Who world tour in 1989.

[keep it simple]

Simon had to fill the shoes of an irreplacable drummer, the most crazy of all drummers, Keith Moon, and while not copying Moonie (which is a good thing) he did a great job with the Who world tour in 1989.Absolutely. Kenny Jones had a hard act to follow too. I met Kenny a few weeks ago. Really nice guy :)

[Mad About Drums]

Hi Simon's Fans

Today's posts are live clips from the past...

"Sunshine Of Your Love" by the Jack Bruce Trio, live in Polland in 1992. Simon's partnership with Jack Bruce goes back to 1977 with the album "How's Trick". I saw this trio live in London in '92, the advert for the gig said "doors open 7:30 pm", so I was there at that time, and the hall was empty, about 3 people!!!, I was able to choose my spot in front of the stage and contemplating Simon's drums for one and a alf hour, ha ha ...No opening act! But I had a GOOD view of the man...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LY2QVAcmWew&feature=related

9 songs live from Toyah's Warrior Tour in 1982, it's the following tour from the album "The Changeling" (1982) featuring Simon Phillips.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NvVO1I76KGQ (warning: it's over 43 minutes)

Enjoy!

[keep it simple]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LY2QVAcmWew&feature=related

9 songs live from Toyah's Warrior Tour in 1982, it's the following tour from the album "The Changeling" (1982) featuring Simon Phillips.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NvVO1I76KGQ (warning: it's over 43 minutes)

Enjoy!Good story about the early gig arrival.

Man, were that German Toyah audience on Mogadon? Can't help notice that Simon's kit has remained virtually unchanged for 30 years. That's got to be unusual for a guy with a big set.

[Mad About Drums]

Can't help notice that Simon's kit has remained virtually unchanged for 30 years. That's got to be unusual for a guy with a big set.

Since I've been following Simon's work for the last 30 years or so, I've never seen any other configurations than the one we know. I know he had an "hybrid" kit with ludwig bass drums and Staccato toms and that he played some Ludwig setups in the mid 70's, but I never found pictures of these kits. Simon also added a third floor tom to his kit last year or the year before, but except that it's always been pretty much the same. It's a good thing for those who want to have copycat drum setup of Simon, they don't have to change it and buy moore drums, ha ha

[Mad About Drums]

Hi chaps

Today's posts is a couple of track funk/rock/fusion by Simon on Rocks, Pebbles and Sand, the album by Stanley Clarke (1980)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TrHRXYIJKSM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XoHkVlPUzzU&feature=related (the end of this song is something...)

Enjoy!

[keep it simple]

Hi chaps

Today's posts is a couple of track funk/rock/fusion by Simon on Rocks, Pebbles and Sand, the album by Stanley Clarke (1980)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TrHRXYIJKSM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XoHkVlPUzzU&feature=related (the end of this song is something...)

Enjoy!Yes, Simon sure opens the taps at the end of that number. I'd completely forgotten about Rocks, pebbles & sand. Great album.

Here's a classic piece of Simon playing. Yes, he's into his trademark boogie, but this is pretty much a jam situation, & displays Simons listening skills superbly. Hear how he immediately tunes into the vibe of each players solo spot on the fly. A few egos on that stage too, so not an easy task politically :) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MEaTWe0h0u8

[Mad About Drums]

Hello again

Yes Andy, Superboogie, Superphillips, Superguitars....

Well, for once, we're not gonna just listen to Simon playing wonderfull drumming pieces, we are going to listen to the man himself.

Just a little insight of the world of Simon Phillips during the Falling In Between tour with Toto.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7pyTyaTvy9U

The Hoshino (Tama/Ibanez) 90th anniversary concert in 1997 with Andy Timmons and Simon Phillips, fusion rock! ...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l_FRI6ekHBw&feature=related

Enjoy!

[Mad About Drums]

Simon Phillips - Dancing Men / Buddy Rich Burning For Buddy.

Check: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KlnS-ViVte0&feature=related

Hi Ian

You remember putting this link?

I found this on Simon's Website yesterday, I thought you'll be interested... it's from the misc question pages...

Question:
Hi Simon, I recently watched back the video tape called "The Making of Burning For Buddy". And you performed a song call Dancing men. Your performance on that song is really amazing. I have some questions on the song and hope you can still remember it.
1. You're wearing the headphones, was it use to monitor the whole band or use it for click track monitoring.
2. You played a vamp solo during the middle of the song, after 2/3 of your solo, you had a unison with the bass player, was the unison comes spontaneously or it was already written on the chart?
3. Before the cut, how many times you'd spend to rehearse with the band
4. Was it one take for the song or you'd tried few times?
Best regards,
Stiv Yau (Hong Kong)
Simon:
Ha ha - that's going to take some remembering!
1. Well - the headphones were to hear everyone in the studio - there was no click track.
2. It was all spontaneous - no plans!!
3. I think we ran it down a couple of times before taking it.
4. I believe it was done in one take - in other words no drop ins. Probably take 2 or 3.
It was so much fun playing with that band - I wished I had had more time to prepare for it though.


Wow!

[Ian Williams]

Hi MAD, brother!

I really appreciate you brought this one up! In fact a very interesting interview.

The questions asked were good but the answers were natural, plain and down-to-earth by Simon...The man has a real vision! I highlighted the ones that caught my attention.

Hi Ian

You remember putting this link?

I found this on Simon's Website yesterday, I thought you'll be interested... it's from the misc question pages...

Question:
Hi Simon, I recently watched back the video tape called "The Making of Burning For Buddy". And you performed a song call Dancing men. Your performance on that song is really amazing. I have some questions on the song and hope you can still remember it.
1. You're wearing the headphones, was it use to monitor the whole band or use it for click track monitoring.
2. You played a vamp solo during the middle of the song, after 2/3 of your solo, you had a unison with the bass player, was the unison comes spontaneously or it was already written on the chart?
3. Before the cut, how many times you'd spend to rehearse with the band
4. Was it one take for the song or you'd tried few times?
Best regards,
Stiv Yau (Hong Kong)
Simon:
Ha ha - that's going to take some remembering!
1. Well - the headphones were to hear everyone in the studio - there was no click track.
2. It was all spontaneous - no plans!!
3. I think we ran it down a couple of times before taking it.
4. I believe it was done in one take - in other words no drop ins. Probably take 2 or 3.
It was so much fun playing with that band - I wished I had had more time to prepare for it though.


Wow!

[Mad About Drums]

Hey Ian, glad you liked it.

I was especially impressed with this one:

2. It was all spontaneous - no plans!!

He's so incredibly musical, a drummer's drummer...

[keep it simple]

Hello again

Yes Andy, Superboogie, Superphillips, Superguitars....

Well, for once, we're not gonna just listen to Simon playing wonderfull drumming pieces, we are going to listen to the man himself.

Just a little insight of the world of Simon Phillips during the Falling In Between tour with Toto.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7pyTyaTvy9U

The Hoshino (Tama/Ibanez) 90th anniversary concert in 1997 with Andy Timmons and Simon Phillips, fusion rock! ...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l_FRI6ekHBw&feature=related

Enjoy!Wonderful! I've viewed that interview before, & still take much from it. The remarkable thing for me is the sense of relaxation underpinned by incredible accuracy. When Simon's demoing the Africa groove, every little part is so precisely stitched together, it goes beyond concentration, & is transported into that unique space, instinct. Just listen to how accurately he controls the opening of the hats. I know of no other player who works with such joy within complexity.

[Mad About Drums]

Hello DrummerFriends

Today's post is related to the collaboration of Simon with rock legend Pete Townshend (The Who), Mr Phillips has played on and off with Townshend for over 30 years now, and he recorded 4 solo albums with the legendary guitarist: Emtpy Glass (1980), All The Best Cowboys Have Chinese Eyes (1982), White City (1985) and The Iron Man (1989).

Simon played live with Pete on many occasions, with Pete Townshend's Deep End (1986), with The Who (1989) and Pete Townshend live in NYC (1993).

Here's a few links highlighting some of Simon's work with Pete Townshend.

"Won't Get Fooled Again" with Deep End http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZH31IE7p1ZE&feature=related

"A Little Is Enough" with Deep End http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DBRG-KI_UWk&feature=related (originaly on the album Empty Glass)

"Give Blood" with Deep End http://www.youtube.com/watch?NR=1&v=j63o1gaGgH0 (originaly on the album White City)

"Communication" from All The Best Cowboys Have Chinese Eyes http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ELgwdyBdqwQ&feature=results_video&playnext=1&list=PL51920BC6D59EC56F

"Let My Love Open The Door" from live in NYC http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ELgwdyBdqwQ&feature=results_video&playnext=1&list=PL51920BC6D59EC56F (originaly on the album Empty Glass)

"Dig" from the album The Iron Man http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=As-SmW0E0cc&feature=related

Enjoy!

[Ian Williams]

You know something brother, in my humble opinion that is Simon's greatest quote and key to success in present drumming...Simon is The One in nowadays!

Hey Ian, glad you liked it.

I was especially impressed with this one:

2. It was all spontaneous - no plans!!

He's so incredibly musical, a drummer's drummer...

[Mad About Drums]

You know something brother, in my humble opinion that is Simon's greatest quote and key to success in present drumming...Simon is The One in nowadays!

Simon's certainly one of the most amazing drummer today, his recent collaboration with the Hiromi jazz trio project just show how musical, skilled and tasteful Simon is these days...

[Ian Williams]

I fully agree! I now call Mr. Phillips - The Dancing Man on drums...

Simon's certainly one of the most amazing drummer today, his recent collaboration with the Hiromi jazz trio project just show how musical, skilled and tasteful Simon is these days...

[keep it simple]

Hello DrummerFriends

Today's post is related to the collaboration of Simon with rock legend Pete Townshend (The Who), Mr Phillips has played on and off with Townshend for over 30 years now, and he recorded 4 solo albums with the legendary guitarist: Emtpy Glass (1980), All The Best Cowboys Have Chinese Eyes (1982), White City (1985) and The Iron Man (1989).

Simon played live with Pete on many occasions, with Pete Townshend's Deep End (1986), with The Who (1989) and Pete Townshend live in NYC (1993).

Here's a few links highlighting some of Simon's work with Pete Townshend.

"Won't Get Fooled Again" with Deep End http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZH31IE7p1ZE&feature=related

"A Little Is Enough" with Deep End http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DBRG-KI_UWk&feature=related (originaly on the album Empty Glass)

"Give Blood" with Deep End http://www.youtube.com/watch?NR=1&v=j63o1gaGgH0 (originaly on the album White City)

"Communication" from All The Best Cowboys Have Chinese Eyes http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ELgwdyBdqwQ&feature=results_video&playnext=1&list=PL51920BC6D59EC56F

"Let My Love Open The Door" from live in NYC http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ELgwdyBdqwQ&feature=results_video&playnext=1&list=PL51920BC6D59EC56F (originaly on the album Empty Glass)

"Dig" from the album The Iron Man http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=As-SmW0E0cc&feature=related

Enjoy!Wow, those Townsend gigs were a big band setup. Of course, Simon nailed it. I especially like his little 16th kick syncopation in the verse groove on "won't get fooled again". A standard rock vibe groove we all use, but it's so perfectly placed in that number.

[Mad About Drums]

Hi again guys

Here's the 2 links for today's post.


"New Blues" by Joe Satriani from the album The Extremist (1992), the one minute bridge starting at 02:10 is something...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GEMc9FLfgLw

"Little Drummer Boy" from the album We Wish You A Metal Xmas And A Headbanging New Year (2008), being so near to christmas, I thought that this groove from Simon would be quite the perfect little "present" for you my DrummerFriends...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aFmQKN7IE1g&feature=channel_video_title

Enjoy!

[Mad About Drums]

Hi fellow drummers

Another couple of "rarities" from our beloved drummer, with a little "bonus" clip in which Simon is discussing talent vs hard work.... interesting, and so true if you really want to get there....

Now the music...

"Looking For A Lady" by Trevor Rabin (Guitarist for the band Yes) from his solo album Wolf (1981), a very Van Halen-esque intro in this song, and as always, perfect groove from the man...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fvy9vRYe3ag&feature=fvst

"Dragonball Z & Z2" a recording session for the video game, I don't know the date of this session, but judging by Simon's look and the drumkit, I'll say it's early 2000's, now that song rocks! Simon, Steve Lukather, Mike Porcaro and the Horns from Tower of Power (no less), I like Steve's comments at the end "Are we getting close?", I thought that was close enough!!!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5mN3BELKFYU

... and the little bonus: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bDRf7Of6e2Q&feature=related

Enjoy!

[Ian Williams]

Hi MAD!
Keep up the good work brother...I am having a great time!

[Mad About Drums]

Hello, Im back at it again...

Simon Phillips and Mo Foster (Bass) have played together on several projects, which includes the jazz/fusion trio RMS, Michael Shenker Group and Mo Foster's solo albums.

Here's a couple of songs that display their partnership on very different styles of music

"The Lights In Your Eyes" by Mo Foster from the album Bel Assis (1988) with a magnificient guitar part from the deeply missed Gary Moore...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a6XqfcHkFjI

"Feels Like A Good Thing" by the Michael Schenker Group from their first album (1980) it's hard to believe that it's the same rythm section as the song above... The funny thing is, MSG were doing their 30th anniversary tour last year, and it's Simon playing it...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0jxQCqIGyWg



Now a little bonus for my friend Andy... (KIS)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ffurj3ZUatA&feature=channel_video_title

.... sorry Andy, it's not the full piece, but the quality is good, I liked the beard!!!

Enjoy!

[keep it simple]

Hello, Im back at it again...

Simon Phillips and Mo Foster (Bass) have played together on several projects, which includes the jazz/fusion trio RMS, Michael Shenker Group and Mo Foster's solo albums.

Here's a couple of songs that display their partnership on very different styles of music

"The Lights In Your Eyes" by Mo Foster from the album Bel Assis (1988) with a magnificient guitar part from the deeply missed Gary Moore...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a6XqfcHkFjI

"Feels Like A Good Thing" by the Michael Schenker Group from their first album (1980) it's hard to believe that it's the same rythm section as the song above... The funny thing is, MSG were doing their 30th anniversary tour last year, and it's Simon playing it...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0jxQCqIGyWg



Now a little bonus for my friend Andy... (KIS)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ffurj3ZUatA&feature=channel_video_title

.... sorry Andy, it's not the full piece, but the quality is good, I liked the beard!!!

Enjoy!This is really too much to take :) Loving these tracks. MSG when Simon was 20 :) Pure class from Mo Foster, then that oh so tasteful performance with Hiromi. All this on a day when we get the huge bonus of those blues club gig tracks too. Really = overload. Loving it!!