Your thoughts on these Ludwigs?

[Bassdrummer]

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=330228384816&ssPageName=STRK:MEUS:IT&ih=014

From the looks of it they are eithier 78-79

Bass Drum serial numbers are 190XXXX rest of the toms are 181XXXX


Does anyone know what they are worth? Are these in the same ballpark as the mid 70's Ludwigs like Bonham use to play?

Thanks!

BD

[Bob Smith]

They seem like they're in god condition except for the gawd awful color.
what is that pink, red what?

[Bassdrummer]

I call it Salmon

It's like a pinkish red depending on the light

I really don't mind the color, really stands out and makes that LUDWIG on the bass drum jump out.

I am more concerned about the tone and quality

There seems to be a little pitting on the hardware.

Anyone have any idea what model and what they are worht?

[harryconway]

Those are 6 ply shells. Red Cortex. Great sounding drums, but not what Bonham played, at all. Auction ended early. Seller pulled it.

[Bassdrummer]

He pulled it I think because he found out how much it would be to ship a whole drum set

It would be a local pick up for me.

I know the JB kits were 3 ply..these are 6 ply maple, so I would assume these are a little more focused maybe? Only the toms and hardware is being sold with this kit..no snare.

I wonder what the fair market value of it would be? I think it's a 79, but it should have a decent vintage tone I would think.

[Royal]

They seem like they're in god condition except for the gawd awful color.
what is that pink, red what?
--------------------------------------------


What a colour......
Like a crap European mini car granny drives to the supermarket.

Could do better.

[Bassdrummer]

I kind of like that abbrasive color...I think that's why nobody has bought it yet. I'm 6'2 275 lbs....what a beauty behind a pink Ludwig I would be!

[Pontiadict]

That is the "Pro Beat" kit as Ludwig called it circa 1979.I have the same kit that I bought new in May ,79 in Chrome over Wood.
John

[Bassdrummer]

That is the "Pro Beat" kit as Ludwig called it circa 1979.I have the same kit that I bought new in May ,79 in Chrome over Wood.
John

John thanks for the reply

If you still have you must really like it?

Can you give me any idea of the characteristics of it? Also what do you think you would sell your for .. a fair market value if you were to sell it (w/o snare)?

Thanks Again!

BD

[harryconway]

I had 6 ply shelled Luddies in 26, 15, 16, 18 sizes and less than $700 invested. Right now it's a buyers market, not a sellers. Offer the cat $500, or $550. See if he bites. My kick was a clear maple virgin 26x14, which I paid $350 (landed) for. These drums are not that uncommon, in size or configuration. If you really like the drums, even if you pay $600-700, I'd say they're a "better" drum than anything you can land new, at that price.

[Pontiadict]

I agree with Harry.600-700 dollars for a set like this in good shape is a good deal.I've had absolutely zero problems with my set since new.The wrap has held tight with no separation for almost 30 years.And I love the way they sound,although I might be a bit biased since it is my first and only set I've owned.Good Luck!
John

[boomboomda]

Cool color , maybe not as a main set, but to pull them out once in a while seems a lot of fun to me.

[Skitch]

As Pontiadict said this is the Pro Beat configuration according to the 1980 Catalog. As far as their being what Bonham played, I was always under the impression that Bonham used a 15" Tom, 16 and 18" Floor toms and a 26" Kick although I could be wrong since I am not that much of a Bonham fan.

Mike

http://www.mikemccraw.com
http://www.dominoretroplate.com

http://www.youtube.com/drummermikemccraw
http://www.myspace.com/drummermikemccraw

[Bassdrummer]

Thanks guys!

The guy is asking 850.00 for it with no snare, I would obviously offer 650.00 and go from there. He is a weird seller..doesn't want to meet at his house which I respect..but on the side of the road in a parking lot?A set this old..I want to see it set up, the hardware etc. I told him I wanted to play the set, he told me to bring sticks and hit them in the car??? I dunno, this guy sounds like he will be a pain to deal with. I really would like the 26 BD and more of a Bonham config..3 ply maple. I think I may hold off and wait for something else to come around. But a vintage Ludwig is in my future, this has been a good thing because of all the research I have done.


BTW Mike...nice shirt in your video ..Sun Records

Very cool place in Memphis, I hope you had a chance to visit, very very cool...same with Staxx

[harryconway]

Turn your back and walk, maybe run. That is too weird.... "meet me by the side of the road". Dude wants too much AND he's demented, just a tad. If you want a 26" kick, shop eBay. I pieced my 26, 15, 16, 18 kit together. My 26 cost me $350 (landed). 15 was $70, 16 was $100, and the 18 was $100. Refinish them, any way you want. After you score the kick, it's a piece of cake to get the rest. That was 6 ply. 3 plies cost more, but are plentiful. Score a 26x14 3 ply marching/orchestral bass, add spurs, and make it a kick. I've made 2 marchers into kicks. Marchers cost way less, especially 3 ply.

[Bassdrummer]

Turn your back and walk, maybe run. That is too weird.... "meet me by the side of the road". Dude wants too much AND he's demented, just a tad. If you want a 26" kick, shop eBay. I pieced my 26, 15, 16, 18 kit together. My 26 cost me $350 (landed). 15 was $70, 16 was $100, and the 18 was $100. Refinish them, any way you want. After you score the kick, it's a piece of cake to get the rest.

Harry

Great Idea!!!

I am running, he must have something to hide because it's been for sale for a long time. Who buys something without playing it?

Unless you peice a kit together.



BTW were you able to find all 3 ply maple ludwigs that were close in age?

[harryconway]

And they'll probably "be for sale" for a long time, with those kind of selling perimeters. Probably nothing wrong with the drums, just the seller. My current project is a Rogers "Big R" memriloc era kit. http://harryconway.typepad.com/ So far I've got $352 invested in a 22, 12, 13, 16. I fortunately have a very good and rich drum base under me. 40+ years. With a good drummer buddy of mine owning 13 vintage kits (as of last count). So I know what all these drums sound like. Gives me the advantage when buying sight unheard.

[Bassdrummer]

Man you have a lot of projects!! LOL

I think your onto something here putting a kit together

I just have to be careful and do my research before I make my purchases..I think if I stay within the mid 70's and stick to 3 play maples drums ..check serial numbers and such I should do fine and save a lot of money!

[Skitch]

With a good drummer buddy of mine owning 13 vintage kits (as of last count).


And my relatives think I am nuts owning three drum kits.....



Mike

http://www.mikemccraw.com
http://www.dominoretroplate.com

http://www.youtube.com/drummermikemccraw
http://www.myspace.com/drummermikemccraw

[harryconway]

And my relatives think I am nuts owning three drum kits.....

I like to tell people "a man can never own too many drums". Personally, I've never owned more than 4 kits. My buddy, it's his passion. Probably half his kits, he'll never sell. The others...a constant ebb and flow. Buy a drum here, a drum there...pretty soon he's got a 3 piece kit that matches. And I'm a lucky dog to get to see, hear and play old Gretsch, Slingerland, Rogers, Ludwig and Camco kits.

[latzanimal]

I like to tell people "a man can never own too many drums". Personally, I've never owned more than 4 kits. My buddy, it's his passion. Probably half his kits, he'll never sell.

I agree 20 times over

[Bassdrummer]

Piecing together a kit?

In Bonham config with vintage drums..by my initial searches this is going to be very tough actually. I do not have these resourses like some of you.

Is it possible?

[Mendozart]

Piecing together a kit?

In Bonham config with vintage drums..by my initial searches this is going to be very tough actually. I do not have these resourses like some of you.

Is it possible?
It's definitely possible. The drums that will be pricey though will be the 18" floor tom and 26" bass drum because there aren't as many out there. Good luck and I'll keep my eye out for you.

[Bassdrummer]

It's definitely possible. The drums that will be pricey though will be the 18" floor tom and 26" bass drum because there aren't as many out there. Good luck and I'll keep my eye out for you.

Thanks! That's very kind and much appreciated!

[harryconway]

Piecing together a kit?

In Bonham config with vintage drums..by my initial searches this is going to be very tough actually. I do not have these resourses like some of you.

Is it possible?
You have a computer, you can access eBay. That's about all you need. And money. And patience. Don't expect all the pieces to fall into place in a month or two. Might take 2 years. Also, start looking at "parts" rather than "the whole drum". Some cat selling a damaged bass drum! Hmmm. Got good hoops, 20 lugs, T-rods and claws. If you can score it cheap enough, it's a good deal.

[Mendozart]

You have a computer, you can access eBay. That's about all you need. And money. And patience. Don't expect all the pieces to fall into place in a month or two. Might take 2 years. Also, start looking at "parts" rather than "the whole drum". Some cat selling a damaged bass drum! Hmmm. Got good hoops, 20 lugs, T-rods and claws. If you can score it cheap enough, it's a good deal.
Ebay is definitely your friend. I'm on there everyday searching for drums. Also Craigslist.com and Recycler.com. Keep eyes and ears open.

[Bassdrummer]

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&item=200223630983

Would this be a good candidate for a bassdrum?

[zambizzi]

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&item=200223630983

Would this be a good candidate for a bassdrum?

I'd wait for the auction to end, since he has no bids and is obviously charging too much. Put it on your watch list, wait for it to end, then send him a message offering $300 - I bet you get it.

[Bassdrummer]

I'd wait for the auction to end, since he has no bids and is obviously charging too much. Put it on your watch list, wait for it to end, then send him a message offering $300 - I bet you get it.

I was thinking the same thing

I know it's not 3 ply early 70's maple, but late 70's 5 ply should be comperable I would think?

[zambizzi]

I was thinking the same thing

I know it's not 3 ply early 70's maple, but late 70's 5 ply should be comperable I would think?

Quite a different sound...but it's all a matter of preference.

[harryconway]

Certainly a very good start, if you want to "put a kit together." Even $300 is a bit high, in my opinion. My clear maple 26x14 landed at $350, at that was when the used market was stronger. Take that vinyl wrap off and you'll find a beautiful clear maple shell to work with. Then score yourself a 14, 16, 18. You'll wind up with a beautiful "Bonham" kit for under a grand.

[Bassdrummer]

Certainly a very good start, if you want to "put a kit together." Even $300 is a bit high, in my opinion. My clear maple 26x14 landed at $350, at that was when the used market was stronger. Take that vinyl wrap off and you'll find a beautiful clear maple shell to work with. Then score yourself a 14, 16, 18. You'll wind up with a beautiful "Bonham" kit for under a grand.


Thant's what I was thinking

But, if 5 ply is that much different in tone then 3 ply then it wouldn't really be a Bonhamesque kit...that's where I am conflicted. I have not and will not have the opportunity to compare the different types of vintage Ludwigs.

[harryconway]

When you go for the "recorded" sound of any artist, you always run into the magic voodoo that only a studio and processing can/will provide. So even a vintage Ludwig, in and of itself, is not going to sound like "When the Levee Breaks". That said, just about any 26" high end kick drum, with the right heads on it and tuned, is gonna sound like a monster. Then you also have to realize that your kit from the drivers seat is gonna sound different than 20' into the audience. So are you tuning for yourself, or a crowd. Ludwig needed to speed up the assembly line (production), so the 6 ply shell eliminated all the re-inforcement ring work (man hours spent). Wasn't such a scientific breakthru on a sonic level as it was just sheer profit margin/competition with other drum makers.

[Bassdrummer]

When you go for the "recorded" sound of any artist, you always run into the magic voodoo that only a studio and processing can/will provide. So even a vintage Ludwig, in and of itself, is not going to sound like "When the Levee Breaks". That said, just about any 26" high end kick drum, with the right heads on it and tuned, is gonna sound like a monster. Then you also have to realize that your kit from the drivers seat is gonna sound different than 20' into the audience. So are you tuning for yourself, or a crowd. Ludwig needed to speed up the assembly line (production), so the 6 ply shell eliminated all the re-inforcement ring work (man hours spent). Wasn't such a scientific breakthru on a sonic level as it was just sheer profit margin/competition with other drum makers.


So in other words I am splitting hairs

A Ludwig Maple kit (3 4 5 6 etc plys) will all sound more or less like Ludwig Maples. Not much difference?

Another thing I have been thinking of...do I really want a 26 BD, that would be maybe too much for some gigs?

[caddywumpus]

A Ludwig Maple kit (3 4 5 6 etc plys) will all sound more or less like Ludwig Maples. Not much difference?

Another thing I have been thinking of...do I really want a 26 BD, that would be maybe too much for some gigs?

I certainly notice a difference between the 3-ply and 6-ply Ludwigs. What I hear out of the 3-ply drums is a "whoomph" that seems to make the sound big and warm. Imagine, if you would, a cartoon of somebody playing the drums. When they hit a drum, the shell quickly expands a little and then shrinks back to size. Yeah, they sound like that looks. The 6-ply models, on the other hand, sound to me like a "typical" drum set, with the shell acting as an air chamber for two heads to resonate on. There's absolutely nothing wrong with that, and the difference is so minimal and subtle, it's hardly noticeable, especially to an audience when you're mic'ed up.

Speaking of subtle, 26" bass drums are cool, but you've got to ask yourself, "do I want to haul around a 26" bass drum to gigs?" What kind of gigs would that be too much for? I don't see any problems with the sizes of drums for gigs...just the sound. Can you get a tight, punchy sound out of a 26"? Not very easily, if at all. If you go the route of piecing together a kit, get a smaller kick (I would recommend a 20") and some toms to match as well as the 26" and huge toms. Then you can mix and match to your heart's desire!

Just my thoughts...

[Bassdrummer]

Thanks Caddy

I appreciate your input

[Mendozart]

I personally think a 24" bass drum would be the way to go. With different head combos you can get a huge booming sound or a nice punchy sound.

[Bassdrummer]

I personally think a 24" bass drum would be the way to go. With different head combos you can get a huge booming sound or a nice punchy sound.


I was thinking that too

Like a mini Bonham config, just a size smaller all the way around.

[Mendozart]

I was thinking that too

Like a mini Bonham config, just a size smaller all the way around.
I would love to have a true Bonham kit, but if you're going to gig, those sizes seem a bit much. Some of the venues I've played would be a pain to fit that kit in. Plus, a 16x24 bass drum will still fit through my back door of my BMW, so I have multiple cars to choose from when transporting.

[KarlCrafton]

If your looking for a "big" sounding kit (without dragging a 26 around), or like a mini-Bonham (I like that), a 24 tuned a little more open is a good way to go.

The option of an 18x24, although it's a little deeper shell, it will still fit in a 16x24 case without any harm to the drum if you have a hard case.

The 18" deep shell will give you a little more "oomph" to get closer to the "26 sound", without it being "ringy".

My 18" deep shell feels great under my foot too over the 16" deep shell because of that "little extra" (Les can add a "little extra" joke here :-) ).

With a 24, you can use a 12" tom and not have it sound "small", and you could go 12-14-16 (for stage space and cartage issues) and tune the drums a little more open to get that extra projection.

I played a Legacy kit, and I think theres a real difference (not "better" or "worse") compared to the 6 ply Classic shell and the new Classic Maple shell.
OK, they are better than the 6ply shell drums...JMO of course to those who love their 6 ply kits :-)

Both sound great, but the Legacy has some extra punch and warmth to the sound without it being muddy at all.

They even sound great with Ludwig's stock Clear heads which are real "attacky" sounding to me.

It's along the lines of the Super Classic (Maple/Poplar) shell from the late 80's-90's, but these new Legacy drums sound pretty dang special.
They just have "more" everything.

I think the new Legacy shells would get you "that" sound (and they offer an 18x24).

And if MY 60's or 70's B/O badge 3 ply with rings shell (probably a "left over" 60's shell to have that badge) is any indication of the "average" shell they produced back then, these new shells are constructed better.

My drum sounds great, but the actual ply lay up construction you can tell is 60's technology.

These new shells are top grade.

They use the small "Keystone" old embossed style badge (right now), and only have a few finishes (right now), but if you wait a little bit, they'll probably do a B/O badge, &/or the older curved spurs if you are after the 70's "look".
They may even do it now, if you can ask the right person.

Good luck getting your gear together.

[Mendozart]

I hear ya on the 18x24 size Karl. That's the size of my DW kick, and it's a monster. But, it won't fit through my back door of my BMW :(

[Bassdrummer]

If your looking for a "big" sounding kit (without dragging a 26 around), or like a mini-Bonham (I like that), a 24 tuned a little more open is a good way to go.

The option of an 18x24, although it's a little deeper shell, it will still fit in a 16x24 case without any harm to the drum if you have a hard case.

The 18" deep shell will give you a little more "oomph" to get closer to the "26 sound", without it being "ringy".

My 18" deep shell feels great under my foot too over the 16" deep shell because of that "little extra" (Les can add a "little extra" joke here :-) ).

With a 24, you can use a 12" tom and not have it sound "small", and you could go 12-14-16 (for stage space and cartage issues) and tune the drums a little more open to get that extra projection.

I played a Legacy kit, and I think theres a real difference (not "better" or "worse") compared to the 6 ply Classic shell and the new Classic Maple shell.
OK, they are better than the 6ply shell drums...JMO of course to those who love their 6 ply kits :-)

Both sound great, but the Legacy has some extra punch and warmth to the sound without it being muddy at all.

They even sound great with Ludwig's stock Clear heads which are real "attacky" sounding to me.

It's along the lines of the Super Classic (Maple/Poplar) shell from the late 80's-90's, but these new Legacy drums sound pretty dang special.
They just have "more" everything.

I think the new Legacy shells would get you "that" sound (and they offer an 18x24).

And if MY 60's or 70's B/O badge 3 ply with rings shell (probably a "left over" 60's shell to have that badge) is any indication of the "average" shell they produced back then, these new shells are constructed better.

My drum sounds great, but the actual ply lay up construction you can tell is 60's technology.

These new shells are top grade.

They use the small "Keystone" old embossed style badge (right now), and only have a few finishes (right now), but if you wait a little bit, they'll probably do a B/O badge, &/or the older curved spurs if you are after the 70's "look".
They may even do it now, if you can ask the right person.

Good luck getting your gear together.



I was very excited till I saw the price tag :(

May have to go classic Maple or try to get lucky in the Vintage market.

I thinking SmoothJazz said it best in my other thread:

Classic Maples sound great

Legacy's sound amazing

Vintage sounds magical

3 ply of course;)

[harryconway]

So in other words I am splitting hairs
That's what "we" drummers do, a lot. Better that than "run with scissors".

A Ludwig Maple kit (3 4 5 6 etc plys) will all sound more or less like Ludwig Maples. Not much difference?
From what I've seen and heard, the vintage 3 ply and the new Legacy shell are close to being the same drum. Build quality being way better in the Legacy. They are gems. The vintage 3 ply shell delivers the sound, but 32+ years, sound ruled, not so much looks. And the thicker . straight shelled Ludwigs (6 or 10) project more. I'll call it a "modern drum" sound. The 3 ply and the Legacy, a "warmer" sound.

Another thing I have been thinking of...do I really want a 26 BD, that would be maybe too much for some gigs?

That's entirely up to you. My "dream" kit would be 22x14 and 26x14 kicks. 10, 12, 14 racks. 14, 16 and 18 floors. All with the same finish. 8 drums for all occasions.(snare is a whole other story) Take 2 drums to a gig, Or 3, 4, 5, etc. At one point in time I had a 14 piece clear Vistalite kit. Doesn't mean all 14 pieces ever hit the stage at once. Most of the time I jammed a 5 piece kit. 1 up, 2 down. Just 'cause you have a bunch of friends doesn't mean you have to invite them all to the party.