Ringo Starr

[Sticksman]

OK, I might be doing a bad thing by opening the Ringo debate, but here goes because it makes for good discussion. Do you think Ringo was all he was hyped up to be, drumming-wise. If he was an adequate drummer, then he was the perfect definition of an adequate drummer. He always kept basic beats, tasteful fills, and even sang once!

Personally, I think he is a good drummer for his time, when drummers just gave a nice groove and then some, and that he deserves credit not only for that but also for inspiring literally millions of people to take up the drum sticks. Not only a good sticksman, but also really influential.

Your two cents???

http://www.drummerworld.com/drummers/Ringo_Starr.html

[Bernhard]

I'm a big fan of Ringo, so here are the points:


The idea that Ringo was a lucky Johnny-on-the-spot-with-a-showbiz-stage-name is wrong. In fact, when Beatle producer George Martin expressed his unhappiness after the first session with original drummer Pete Best, the decision was made by Paul, George, and John to hire who they considered to be the best drummer in Liverpool - Ringo Starr. His personality was a bonus.


Ringo was the first true rock drummer to be seen on TV. All the Rock & Roll drummers featured with Elvis, Bill Haley, Little Richard, Fats Domino and Jerry Lee Lewis were mostly R&B drummers that were making the transition from a swing drumming style of the 40's and 50's toward the louder and more "rocking" sound that is associated with "I Want To Hold Your Hand". They were dressed in tuxedos and suits and held the drumsticks in the "traditional" manner of military, orchestra, and jazz drummers. Ringo showed the world that power was needed to put the emphasis on the "rock" in Rock & Roll music, so he gripped both sticks like hammers and proceeded to build a foundation for rock music.

Ringo changed the way drummers hold their sticks by making popular the "matched" grip of holding drumsticks. Nearly all drummers in the Western World prior to Ringo held their sticks in what is termed the "traditional" grip, with the left hand stick held like a chopstick. This grip was originally developed by military drummers to accomodate the angle of the drum when strapped over the shoulder. Ringo's grip changes the odd left hand to match the right hand, so that both sticks are held like a flyswatter. Rock drummers along with marching band and orchestral percussionists now mostly play with a "matched" grip, and drum companies have developed straps and accessories to accomodate them.

Ringo started a trend of placing drummers on high risers so that they would be as visible as the other musicians. When Ringo appeared on the Ed Sullivan Show in 1964, he immediately caught the attention of thousands of "drummers to be" by towering over the other three Beatles. Elvis's drummer was looking at a collection of backs.

These same "wannabe" drummers also noticed that Ringo was playing Ludwig drums and they immediately went out and bought thousands of these drumsets, thus establishing Ludwig as the definitive name in Rock & Roll drums at that time.

Ringo changed the sound of recorded drums. About the time of Rubber Soul (released Dec. 6,1965), the sound of the drumset started to become more distinct. Along with help from the engineers at Abbey Road studios, Ringo popularized a new sound for the drums by tuning them lower, deadening the tonal ring with muffling materials, and making them sound "closer" by putting a microphone on each drum.

Ringo has nearly perfect tempo. This allowed the Beatles to record a song 50 or 60 times, and then be able to edit together different parts of numerous takes of the same song for the best possible version. Today an electronic metronome is used for the same purpose, but the Beatles had to depend on Ringo to keep the tempo consistant throughout the dozens of takes of the songs that you know and love so well. Had he not had this ability, the Beatles recordings would sound completely different today.

Ringo's "feel" for the beat serves as a standard for pop-rock record producers and drummers alike. It is relaxed, but never dragging. Solid, yet always breathing. And yes, there is a great amount of musical taste in his decisions of what to play and when to play it. In most recording sessions, the drummer's performance acts as a barometer for the rest of the musicians. The stylistic direction, dynamics, and emotions are filtered through the drummer. He is the catcher to whom the pitcher/songwriter is throwing. If the drumming doesn't feel good, the performance of any additional musicians is doomed from the start. The Beatles rarely if ever had this problem with Ringo.

Ringo hated drum solos, which should win points with quite a few people. He only took one solo while with the Beatles. His eight measure solo appears during "The End" on the "B" side of Abbey Road. Some might say that it is not a great display of technical virtuosity, but they would be at least partially mistaken. You can set an electronic metronome to a perfect 126 beats per minute, then play it along with Ringo's solo and the two will stay exactly together.

Ringo's ability to play odd time signatures helped to push popular songwriting into uncharted areas. Two examples are "All you Need is Love" in 7/4 time, and "Here Comes the Sun" with repeating 11/8, 4/4, and 7/8 passages in the chorus.

Ringo's proficiency in many differen styles such as two beat swing ("When I'm Sixty-Four"), ballads ("Something"), R&B ("Leave My Kitten Alone" and "Taxman") and country (the Rubber Soul album) helped the Beatles to explore many musical directions with ease. His pre-Beatle experience as a versatile and hard working nightclub musician served him well.

The rumors that Ringo did not play on many of the Beatle songs because he was not good enough are also false. In fact, he played on every released Beatles recording (not including Anthology 1) that include drums except for the following: "Back In The USSR" and "Dear Prudence", on which Paul played drums due to Ringo temporarily quitting the band, "The Ballad of John and Yoko", again featuring Paul on drums because Ringo was off making a movie, and a 1962 release of "Love Me Do" featuring session drummer Andy White.

When the Beatles broke up and they were all trying to get away from each other, John Lennon chose Ringo to play drums on his first solo record. As John once said, "If I get a thing going Ringo knows where to go, just like that.." A great songwriter could ask no more of a drummer. Except maybe to smile and bob his head.

Courtesy Ray Bryant http://web2.airmail.net/gshultz/bryant.html

Bernhard

[Superlow]

I am not the biggest fan of Ringo, but I appreciate the Beatles and give credit where credit is due. I am still amazed by his drumming on Rubber Soul, the kits sound great on that record. The tunes are great pop tunes no one can deny that. He played for the Beatles, a band that is very much based on lyrics and harmonies. I think for the instruments sake it was almost secondary. It's funny a lot of musicians will pose the who's better argument of Charlie Watts or Ringo, I don't understand how these guys got a bad rap for their drumming.

[Sticksman]

I'm impressed. I always knew Ringo was a good drummer, but one of the surprises in Bernhard's post was when I read that "Here Comes the Sun" is played in 11/8, 4/4, and 7/8. I never would've guessed. Either way, great post.

[SpiderPine]

Just as a bit of added material, here is an article my friends dad wrote on ringo and bernard purdie. I found it very interesting. http://www.jimvallance.com/03-projects-folder/purdie-project-folder/pg-purdie.html

[Raymond Bloom]

I just wanted to post that link... :) Really, really interesting source! Thx for sharing!!

[Bonham to the moon]

he did what was asked of him, no more, no less.

[Placeboman]

OH-----------MY-----------------GOD.Burdie was a Beatle?????heh,the truth has a nasty way of getting out there :) Next its revealed that Elvis the King didn´t sing on his records????
If that happens,then ill do something drastic :)

[tallassfreak89]

Come on guys, he was not that good. the only thing that made him larger than life was that he was part of the beatles. You can argue all you want about how he can keep good tempo and make good beats but hes not all that good of a drummer (as in what your skill is as a drummer).

[Kevlar]

You can argue all you want about how he can keep good tempo and make good beats but hes not all that good of a drummer (as in what your skill is as a drummer).

I'd argue that those are qualities that make a good drummer. What is your definition of drumming skills?
Please go listen to Abbey Road, and then tell us all what's not all that good about the drumming.

[NUTHA JASON]

i'm afraid tallassfreak89 that you are treading on dangerous ground here. our beloved founder, bernard is a die hard fan of ringo. since i've been on this forum it is the one aspect of his posts that never changes. if he had a quote that he uses often, like homer says 'hmm dooonuts aaaaarrghghg!' it is certainly: 'don't bash ringo' ... a friendly warning. if you have critiscism about this particular drummer you'd better have lots of evidence to back it up ...

bashing ringo may actually be a banning offence.

j

ps: jokes. but do expand on your opinion.

[Superlow]

I find the Purdie playing for the Beatles not surprising at all. He is the most recorded drummer why would he stop there. He's the guy you bring in the studio when you want job done right. Interesting post.

[needforspeed182]

Hes good now thats about it tho, he wasnt anything out of the ordinary back then

[Bonham to the moon]

He is the most recorded drummer

actually steve gadd is

[nickolas_sahaf]

Ringo is one on lovely drummers in the hole world..............................

[LittleRock]

Ringo... what can you say, probably the most influencial drummer of our time. That washy sound that he got from his hi-hats is still being heard today. His drums sounded real good and he had incredible feel. Sure, he may have not been the most "technical" drummer but his feel was second to none. You probably could not count how many drummers decided to pick up the sticks after seeing him play. My favorite drummer, Ringo!

[Stu_Strib]

I guess Ringo gets a lot of credit for being a drummer at that time. He certainly doesn't hold a candle up against many of the later great drummers that came after him (many of whom admit Ringo was a big influence)

Lets face it, Ringo IS a rock 'n roll star, and we can't take that away from him.

I like Charlie Watts better, of all the bashed beloved Bernhard drummers on here. But Charlie doesn't have the rockstar persona that Ringo has. Not even the name!!

Plus Ringo was in the movie 'Caveman'. That should shut everyone up for now! hehe

stu

[eddrummer05]

ringo its a classic.. i admire him

[Bernhard]

i'm afraid tallassfreak89 that you are treading on dangerous ground here. our beloved founder, bernard is a die hard fan of ringo. since i've been on this forum it is the one aspect of his posts that never changes. if he had a quote that he uses often, like homer says 'hmm dooonuts aaaaarrghghg!' it is certainly: 'don't bash ringo' ... a friendly warning. if you have critiscism about this particular drummer you'd better have lots of evidence to back it up ...

bashing ringo may actually be a banning offence.

j

ps: jokes. but do expand on your opinion.

Nutha, I'm back from Vienna and I see, that you hold very strong my position on Ringo.
Thank you soo much. Perhabs it's a spleen of me - but I like this guy.
We all know the skills some drummers have today. But anyway - all drummers that I admit they have more skills don't bash Ringo - they even admire him. Take Steve Gadd, Gregg Bissonette, Dennis Chambers, Dave Weckl: all told it to me personally.

And even, if he's not so great - who saled more records?
And for sure he's the better drummer as 99.99% of us forum members. And the forum is for us all - also Drummerworld-Concept is for us all - let's have fun......and please don't bash Ringo.....

Thank you

Bernhard

[Funkdaddy]

If you look at MD's interview with Sir Paul McCartney (an addition to the interview with Abe Laboriel jr), he says it's nonsense that Purdie played on some Beatles tracks and he can't believe Purdie has claimed that.

From an objective view: If Ringo didn't record every single Beatles tune, so what? He was (and is) a part of great music history and he certainly is a good drummer, a good musician and a good man.

[Mike T.]

Even though I grew up during the 70's (after the breakup of the Beatles), I was heavily influenced by Ringo. One of the most indelible memories I had of him was a clip I saw of the Beatles performing at a stadium (perhaps Shea, I'm not positive). He had the drum riser shaking while playing "I Wanna Hold Your Hand." Later, in my teens, when I started listening to different bands and drummers, I didn't think anything of Ringo or the Beatles because he wasn't busy or flashy and didn't play a big kit (afterall, it was the 80's). As I grew older and started playing the drums, I started to realize how great Ringo was. His drum parts fit perfectly within the songs. His feel is underrated; yes, we could all play his parts note for note, but it would not sound or feel the same. I'm still knocked out by his early drum sound. Those swishy hi hats and high-pitched snare still stand up to anything recorded today. He is more influential that a lot of us are willing to admit.

[ludwigdrummer]

I still play my 1970 Black Oyster Pearl Ludwig set when I play out and at least once a night someone asks me if it is a copy or the real thing. It's always a big hit with other drummers. So I'd say Ringo was a big influence on me and my style. All the fancy chops are great but if you can't keep time then why bother.

[Henry II]

I wasn't there when the Beatles recorded their great albums, so my opinions are based only on what I've heard, seen and my knowledge of drumming. One thing that cannot be denied, Ringo had impecible time, and a great feel for rock and roll. I've never seen Ringo demonstrate any advanced level of chops, but, I have seen film of him playing live in which he demonstrates some impressive power and endurance with his right hand high hat work. (Playing along to some of his songs is indeed a right hand challenge). There's also no way for me to know what part Ringo played in his own drum parts. He was the drummer for some of the greatest, most creative pop song writers in history. I wouldn't be surprised if Paul, John and George played major roles in determining what Ringo's drum parts. Isn't it odd that Ringo never played a double stroke or paradiddle. In any event, he played his parts to perfection.

[Seafroggys]

Ringo was a major influence on me when I first started playing about 5 years ago. Sure he wasn't the reason why I picked up sticks (it was actually my brother's high school marching band, which I was later a part of) but my favorite band at the time, and still is, The Beatles, so I sat down and drummed along to Ringo tracks. I absolutly love him. Plus I saw him live, so eat that!

Even though now I've moved on and I'm jamming with Cream, Hendrix, Deep Purple, and The Who, I still go back to my all-time favorite band and lay down some 'slightly' more complicated fills on top of Ringo's. Its so much fun, he is such a great drummer. I still have trouble playing the End solo :(

Even compared with all the drummers of today, just take a listen to Abbey Road, and on it you'll hear some of the best drumming of all time. Even if you aren't impressed with his skill, listen to his drum sound. It is unmatched before and since. Those toms just give me the willies when I hear them!

[Bernhard]

It's very easy:

WITHOUT RINGO THERE WOULD BE NO DRUMMERWORLD
Thank you Mr. Starkey

Long long - very long - time ago - I picked up the sticks because of Ringo (and perhabs also because of Brian Bennett - Little B - Shadows)

It took some years - even after being pro for some time - then I discovered SG BR and GK.

I'm sure 100'000 drummers are getting better drummers studying Steve.....
But 5 Million picked up the sticks because of Ringo.

Not to speak about the Ludwig Drum Company who had to buy forests in Canada to make more drumsets. OK - quality went down, because the wood was not good - too fresh and not old enough, but that's another story. I'm proud of my 1964 - old - original - Ludwig Drum-Set..... also another story...

Bernhard

[Narada]

What is really reprehensible when the question of Ringo's drumming dexterity rears its ugly head is that Paul, John and George never did the right thing when they unceremoniously dumped Pete Best from the group in the first place.

Considering that the type of live drumming required by Rock & Roll percussionist in the early 1960's was not what it was by the late 1960's, Best was as good as, or better than, Ringo. John, Paul and George never complained about Best's competency for the year he played in clubs with them. In fact, it seems Best was the real draw for the chics who came to see these Liverpudlians.

It is obvious that when the Beatles were about to turn the corner, they had pangs of insecurity and even resentment about their current drummer, who was better looking and who might upstage their lyrics and melodies.

Would Billy Cobham or Ginger Baker have fit into the Beatles scheme better than Ringo? Of course not. Ringo was the perfect non-threatening musician who was counted on to compliment the stylized George Martin studio sound and who would not Wow! listeners with riffs that might diminish the other three's capabilities.

But it is interesting when the group (John, Paul, George) pursued individual careers, they all employed drummers whom they did not inhibit from a more productive and energetic rhythm than Ringo demonstrated on the Beatles 13 albums.

Had Ringo been Herman's Hermit's drummer would anyone know his name today? No. But Ringo was smart enough to know a good thing when he saw it (heard it?) and he rode the Beatles phenomenon for all it was worth.

[jamndrummer]

It's very easy:

WITHOUT RINGO THERE WOULD BE NO DRUMMERWORLD
Thank you Mr. Starkey

Long long - very long - time ago - I picked up the sticks because of Ringo (and perhabs also because of Brian Bennett - Little B - Shadows)

It took some years - even after being pro for some time - then I discovered SG BR and GK.

I'm sure 100'000 drummers are getting better drummers studying Steve.....
But 5 Million picked up the sticks because of Ringo.

Not to speak about the Ludwig Drum Company who had to buy forests in Canada to make more drumsets. OK - quality went down, because the wood was not good - too fresh and not old enough, but that's another story. I'm proud of my 1964 - old - original - Ludwig Drum-Set..... also another story...

Bernhard

I wanted to play drums at a very young age, my two influences were John Bohnam and Mitch Mitchel

[onemat]

Ringo's playing might seem deceptively easy to some of you until you try to play it. I particularly liked some of his performances on "Live at The BBC".There's a track on there where he's doing some great fast paradiddles on the intro. On "What Goes On" his right hand pattern on the hats is really tough to do while not doing straight 4s on the kick. The fact that he didn't solo much doesn't bother me at all. Try to do the latin beat of "I Feel Fine" at that speed and stay at even tempo. His fills are really hard to imitate unless you're a lefty playing a right hand kit. Then we get into some of the original grooves and use of things. The Timpany on "A Day In The Life" being integrated into the kit and not overdubbed?...absolutley brilliant. Listen to his groove and fills on "Flying" or the ferocious playing on "Slow Down"! He played those hats wide open while rocking. Where ya thing Bonham go the idea for that sound? Ringo. I love the man's playing, and I love the man.

As for Gadd being the most recorded drummer in pop music, I don't know. Hal Blaine maybe? I guess it depends on the time frame too. ...Matt

[EXIT]

As for Gadd being the most recorded drummer in pop music, I don't know. Hal Blaine maybe? I guess it depends on the time frame too. ...Matt

Yeah, I found that one a bit hard to believe too, I would suggest Sly Dunbar...

Also, I was a big fan of Ringo until I saw the extras on the Band's The Last Waltz DVD. There's a long jam on it, it's pretty awful (most of the musicians who guested during the gig are on stage at the same time, so it's quite a mess), and Ringo is in the middle, adding to the chaos. Now I'm not totally dissing Ringo, I just thought that it was weak, and especially seeing as it was the drummer who had come up with such amazing stuff as Tomorrow Never Knows etc etc...I thought he could have put a bit of a shape on things. Maybe I'm being a bit harsh...many of the most famous musicians in the world on stage at the same time, it's forgiveable that no-one had the nerve to take the bull by the horns. Just a lost opportunity.


Hey! First post! Hooray!

[MissLSSD]

http://web2.airmail.net/gshultz/bryant.html

Nice first post I guess...

And why there is no topic for Zak Starkey?

[Zak_fan]

I am a huge fan of both Ringo and Zak. There should definately be a section dedicated to Zak's work. I love Keith Moon too, and in my opinion there is no one else who can fill the void left by moonie.

Kelly

[DogBreath]

And why there is no topic for Zak Starkey?
Because you haven't started one yet?

[screaming muffin]

i did a search and i didn't find a ringo thread!! !?!?!!!!!!

i love his playing, he has a nice touch, very natural.. he is creative, very expressive, very musical and he did the beatles proud IMO

i love A Day in a Life, that has such a great feel to it, and strawberry fields too.. i can't really put into words what it is i like about his playing, or how much i like it, but yeah i just thought he deserved a thread of his own (like he'd care, but still..)

[Henry II]

Ringo played the drums the way a composer would write a drummer's part for the music the Beatles played. He made the music better and never overplayed. He never played with chops or did anything that would draw the listener's attention from the overall sound of the music to the drums.

[Pocketman]

Ringo played with personality and creativity. These are two things we all strive for. He was a bona fide professional drummer before he joined The Beatles. He inspired more people to start playing drums than anyone else. Although he's never been known as a technician, if he wasn't any good he would not have been in the biggest band in the world to begin with. Even after the Fab Four broke up he played on everybody's solo albums. You can't not acknowlege that. Buddy Rich was once quoted as saying "Ringo was adequate, nothing more." Well, given Buddy's penchant for calling rock drummers no-talent animals, I'd take that as a compliment!

[photon]

Being 44, like thousands of others Ringo was my inspiration to play the drums. While Ringo's drumming obviously did the job my one knock against him is that while the other band members grew and matured so much in their songwriting and playing Ringo remained as he ever was...adequate at best. Must have been his self admitted disdain for practicing. I will say that Ringo did pioneer that slamming rock style we all still see today. I mean take a look at some of the old videos...that whole kit was just swaying when he played...and match grip too at a time when that was not even considered a valid grip!

That being said no one really cares but other drummers. Ask your average man on the street to name a famous drummer and 99 times out of 100 they will say Ringo!

[OldHippy]

By the time the Beatles came to the U.S. I was just old enough to go to bars (18 was legal then) and I watched a lot of drummers in bar bands. When Ringo appeared on Ed Sullivan we were saying that he wasn't any good, and besides he held his sticks all wrong. I'm still not convinced that he was a very good drummer, but one thing he did do was introduce a whole new rock beat. Up to then most bands were playing four on the floor for bass. Also he influenced many people, me included, to take up drums, just as the others got a lot of guitar players started.

[sgt.pepper1986]

I was wondering if there were any Ringo threads anywhere! I love Ringo. He is by far my favorite drummer. He doesn't try to take over a song, but he does give as much backbone to it as it needs. To point out a few of his particularly good tunes.........

I Feel Fine- the drum part on this song is quite complicated, yet he stays steady on through.

Rain- I really like the fills he puts in this song, bouncing around between snare and tom(s)

Helter Skelter- his work on this song sounds almost heavy metal, with the loud, bashing rhythm (and the part at the end where he yells "I've got blisters on my fingers!")

Come Together- I like the parts before the verses where he circles from ride to hi-hat to toms and back again.

Here Comes the Sun- this is a rather complicated drum part that he again did perfectly. I believe the tempos change throughout the song.

Those are it for now. I could go on for a lot longer, but I won't. DON'T BASH RINGO! haha.

[photon]

I'm a big fan of Ringo, so here are the points:


The idea that Ringo was a lucky Johnny-on-the-spot-with-a-showbiz-stage-name is wrong. In fact, when Beatle producer George Martin expressed his unhappiness after the first session with original drummer Pete Best, the decision was made by Paul, George, and John to hire who they considered to be the best drummer in Liverpool - Ringo Starr. His personality was a bonus.

Bernhard

Bernhard...

I think the jury is still out as to why Pete Best was replaced by Ringo. Another take on the story has it that "the boys" were jealous of all the attention Pete was getting from the ladies and Brian Epstein realized that to keep the ego's in check and from a marketing perspective that attention needed to be diverted where it rightly belonged...front and center, Lennon & McCartney.

No debating that Ringo was one of the best drummers on the scene at the time but was it merely coincidence that he was also a real goofy looking sort of fellow...certainly not the model type looks that Pete had at the time

[photon]

Ooops...I see Narada already covered that Pete Best angle that I mentioned...

...note to self...read all posts first before replying.............

What I still can't believe after all these years and all the success the Beatles had, not one of them ever spoke to Pete again. You would think that there would be some sense of guilt. I mean they went through the wars together and then when they are on the threshold of greatness...poof...they boot him.

I know if I was John, Paul or George with all their millions I would have rang him up and said thanks for getting us there Pete...here's a million dollars for all your hard work...you have a nice life.

That's the one part I don't understand.........

[harryconway]

Ringo did everything The Beatles needed him to do. Just like Charlie does everything the Stones need. They both know when "too much cowbell is too much".

[pcmckay]

I feel Ringo could probably do a lot more on the kit then he showed. He just played what the music needed, a steady back beat. His playing in my opinon shows that he is a good musician. Think about it , you have Lennon, Harrison, and McCartney out in front. Three great song writers with great lyrics, and the best three part harmony in Rock history. Why would you want to possibly drown that out by overplaying? I think his playing shows his understanding of music, ensemble is more important then self promotion.

[Drifter in the Dark]

I remember back in 1994 when I was in 6th grade. . . I got ahold of Rubber Soul and flipped my lid over the drumming on that album! This was the disc that really blew it wide open for me and made me realize that I wanted to be a drummer for the rest of my days. I can still remember putting a blanket over my toms and a wallet on my snare so I could get the sound he had on "Come Together"!
To me, there is something very infectious about Ringo's style; he has this great, loping feel with just a touch of his own original British funkiness and soul. That may sound weird, but I do believe that Ringo, in his own way, was a funky drummer!

[tron]

Ringo is definately a Great drummer and one that was perfect for the Beatles.
I can't really fault his work that much and where he shines he really shines....
The drumming on She Said is wicard for example.

What really gets to me is that he was getting even better ,, like the drumming on Abbey Road for example ... Something and Oh Darling and Come Together have very cool dumming.
His peak may be the Plastic Ono Band record he played on.
The drum sound is very unique and original as well.

[plangan]

Come on guys, he was not that good. the only thing that made him larger than life was that he was part of the beatles. You can argue all you want about how he can keep good tempo and make good beats but hes not all that good of a drummer (as in what your skill is as a drummer).


I have a personal rule.. dont bash other drummers.. especially those who are legends and pioneers. The fact is, im sure your an alright drummer, but can you get up infront of half the world and play as well as he did... that man had talent..no questions asked, especially in a time that was new to tech drumming and rock and roll drumming..the man was a genious

[somedrummer]

Just noticed that today is Ringo's birthday. Just thought I'd say

HAPPY BIRTHDAY RINGO!

[Mediocrefunkybeat]

Hooray! Do we get cake?

[somedrummer]

Aww man, I wish............

[GRUNTERSDAD]

Avatar, avatar, avatar.....Happy Birthday to Ringo, and to My Sister

[AllTheCoolNamesAreTaken]

I'm a Ringo fan. I was defending Ringo before I ever thought of becoming a drummer, because if you actually listen to the Beatles (as I did, over and over, growing up due to my hippie parents) you will probably find that even though the drum beats are technically pretty simple, they're generally a very strong part of the song. One of my favorites is "Everybody's Got Something to Hide Except Me and My Monkey". Whacky beat, played impeccably.

Two things I need to refute: first, the nonsense that Purdie played 'all of' Ringo's drum tracks. I have a copy of The Beatles Anthology, where Ringo very frankly talks about how he became a member of the group, and the songs he did and did not play. Except for Andy White playing drums on 'Love Me Do' (which Ringo is rather pissed about to this day, since it's a trivial drum beat) and Paul/John trying to play drums on songs like "Back in the USSR" due to tension within the group, Ringo played them all. The article linked above does a very solid job of discrediting Purdie's statements about playing in Ringo's stead, so the only reason I could see for anyone actually furthering this nonsense is because they just don't like Ringo.

Second, all this crap about The Beatles picking Ringo because Pete Best was supposedly too good or too hot or whatever - just drop it. The Beatles replaced Pete Best because he wasn't a good enough drummer, he didn't practice, and he didn't show up for gigs. From The Beatles Anthology:

Paul McCartney: "George Martin ... was not very pleased with Pete Best. George Martin was very used to drummers being very 'in time'. George took us to one side and said 'I'm really unhappy with the drummer. Would you consider changing him?' We said, 'No, we can't!' It was one of those terrible things you go through as kids. Can we betray him? No. But our career was on the line."
John Lennon: "This myth built up over the years that he was great and Paul was jealous of him because he was pretty and all that crap. They didn't get on that much together, but it was partly because Pete was a bit slow. He was a harmless guy, but he was not quick. The reason he got into the group in the first place was because we had to have a drummer to get to Hamburg. We were always going to dump him when we could find a decent drummer, but by the time we were back from Germany we'd trained him to keep a stick going up and down (four-in-the-bar, he couldn't do much else) and he looked nice and the girls liked him, so it was all right."
George Harrison: "To me it was apparent: Pete kept being sick and not showing up for gigs so we would get Ringo to sit in with the band instead, and every time Ringo sat in, it seemed like 'this is it'. Eventually we realised, 'We should get Ringo in the band full time.' I was quite responsible for stirring things up. I conspired to get Ringo in for good."
Paul McCartney: "Pete Best was good, but a bit limited. You can hear the difference on the Anthology tapes. When Ringo joins us we get a bit more kick, a few more imaginative breaks, and the band settles."

So in the end you either like him or dislike him because of how he drums, not because of some BS story about him replacing a better drummer who was prettier, or being a shell pretending to play what Purdie really played.

Ringo was obviously very capable, if not a great technical drummer (something he freely admits to - as my sig used to say, he believes that drumming should be solid rather than busy).

If you want to bag on a drummer, why not Meg from the White Stripes? There's a really, really limited drummer. And the best part is that if you criticize her, Jack calls you a misogynist. What a world.

[d.c.drummer]

Ringo while not a dennis chambers or jo jo mayer was a drummer. A good solid drummer. He diid wat was necessary for the music and did it well. His ability as a timekeeper was never outshineded by his ego and he was very creative. I wouldn't pick him for the any other type of music but for the music he played he was pretty damn good.

[fullmoon]

i love what he did on "come together"

[wooltonboy]

For all the Ringo Starr bashers out there, check out his website at www.ringostarr.com
Go to the "updates" tab, where he checks in every few weeks and leaves a small video clip message to his fans.
Click on the update for 7/04/06.
Ringo sits behind a beautiful marine pearl Ludwig kit, and does a short little display of his talent. Now, I know a lot of you will say "I can do that", but look at the effortless technique of his.
He was, and always will be a phenominal drummer.
Cheers
Phil

[White]

That wasn't all that "Amazing" lol, liek ya, I could paly that wih very little effort haha, I havn't always been a big fan of Ringo (not a Ringo basher lol) BUt ya, I just never found him that amazing of a drummer, I respect that alot of ppl became drummers listning to him, its just he's not as complex as I like to listen to 9I know complexity isn't a factor of drummin ,I just enjoy listning to it) But ya, I find this was a pointless thread lol.

[wooltonboy]

That wasn't all that "Amazing" lol, liek ya, I could paly that wih very little effort haha, I havn't always been a big fan of Ringo (not a Ringo basher lol) BUt ya, I just never found him that amazing of a drummer, I respect that alot of ppl became drummers listning to him, its just he's not as complex as I like to listen to 9I know complexity isn't a factor of drummin ,I just enjoy listning to it) But ya, I find this was a pointless thread lol.


Mmmm....My point exactly.

[NUTHA JASON]

i found a great article on ringo in my july 1997 modern drummer. for the rest of the article you will need to nuy the back issue or the archive but this part of the article is particularly valuable to any ringo talk.


Thirteen Reasons To Give Ringo Some Respect
by John Bryant
as Ringo Starr the luckiest no-talent on earth? All he had to do was
smile, bob his head, and keep the beat for three of the most talented
musicians/songwriters of the century. Sadly, there are people who actual-
ly feel this way about Starr. Frankly, they're missing quite a bit. The fol-
lowing list shows just a. few of the contributions Ringo made to the Beatles,
to music in general, and to the art of drumming.

Ringo was the first true rock drummer to be seen on TV. All of the early
"rock 'n' roll drummers" featured with Elvis, Bill.Haley, Little Richard,
Fats Domino, and Jerry Lee Lewis were mostly R&B drummers. These
players were barely making the transition from the swing drumming style of
the '40s and '50s to the louder and more "rocking" sound that is associated
with "I Want To Hold Your Hand."

Ringo changed the way drummers hold their sticks by making popular the
"matched" grip. Nearly all drummers in the modern Western world prior
to Ringo held their sticks with the "traditional" grip. Ringo showed the
world that power was needed to put the emphasis on the "rock" in rock 'n'
roll music, so he gripped both sticks like hammers and proceeded to build a
foundation for the music.

Ringo started a trend of placing drummers on high risers so that they
would be as visible as the other musicians. Certainly Ringo was not the
first drummer on a riser, but his visibility did proclaim him to be an equal
member of the band. This is significant because most drummers before him
were considered only sidemen. When Ringo appeared on The Ed Sullivan
Show in 1964, he immediately caught the attention of thousands of future
musicians by towering over the other three Beatles.

These same viewers noticed that Ringo was playing drums—Ludwig
drums, in fact. Ringo's influence was immediate. A mad rush to purchase
equipment ensued, and subsequently the entire percussion industry went
into a "boom" period that would last for years to come.

Ringo changed the sound of recorded drums. About the time of Rubber
Soul (released December 6, 1965), the sound of his drumset started to
become more distinct. Along with help from the engineers at Abbey Road
studios, Ringo popularized a new sound for drums—a clearer, more up-
close effect. He did this by tuning the drums lower and deadening the ring
with muffling materials (especially pillows in the bass drum). This sound
was to become very influential.

Ringo has nearly perfect tempo. This allowed the Beatles to record a song
twenty-five times, and then be able to edit together different parts of
numerous takes for the best possible version. Today click tracks are used
for the same purpose, but the Beatles had to depend on Ringo to keep the
tempo consistent throughout the dozens of takes. Had he not had this abili-
ty, the Beatles recordings would sound completely different. His perfect
time and good feel give Beatles tunes an "ageless" quality.

In most recording sessions the drummer's performance acts as a barome-
ter for the rest of the musicians. The stylistic direction, dynamics, and
emotions are filtered through the drummer. He is the catcher to whom the
pitcher/songwriter is throwing. If the drumming doesn't feel good, the per-
formance of any additional musicians is doomed from the start. The Beatles
rarely had this problem with Ringo.

Ringo's "feel" serves as a standard for pop-rock record producers and
drummers alike. It is relaxed, but never dragging; solid, yet always breath-
ing. There is a uniqueness to Ringo's playing that can in some ways be
attributed to his being a left-handed drummer playing a right-handed drum-
set. Ringo's distinctive tom fills that lead with the left hand are just as
important to his sound as Steve Gadd's rudimental stickings are to his. And
yes, there is a great amount of musical taste in Ringo's decisions as to what
to play and when to play it.

Ringo hated drum solos, which, like it or not, wins points with quite a few
people. He only took one solo with the Beatles. His eight-measure break
appears during "The End" from Abbey Road. Some might say that it's not
a great display of technical virtuosity, but they would be at least partially
mistaken. Set a metronome to a perfect 126 beats per minute, line it up with
Ringo's solo, and the two will stay together!

Ringo's ability to play odd time signatures helped to push popular song-
writing into uncharted areas. Two examples include "All You Need Is
Love," which is in 7/4 time, and "Here Comes The Sun," with the repeat-
ing 11/8, 4/4, and 7/8 passages in the chorus.

Ringo's proficiency in many different styles such as two-beat swing
("When I'm Sixty-Four"), ballads ("Something"), R&B ("Leave My
Kitten Alone" and "Taxman"), and country (the Rubber Soul album)
helped the Beatles to explore many musical directions with ease. His pre-
Beatle experience as a versatile and hard-working nightclub musician
served him well.

The idea that Ringo was a lucky Johnny-on-the-spot-with-a-showbiz-stage-name
is wrong. In fact, when Beatles producer George Martin expressed his unhappiness after the first session with
original drummer Pete Best, the decision was made by Paul, George, and John to hire the
person they considered to be the best drummer in Liverpool—Ringo Starr. His personality was a bonus.

The rumors that Ringo did not play on many of the Beatle songs
because he was not good enough are false. In fact, according to
Mark Lewisohn's The Beatles: Recording Sessions [Harmony,
1988], Ringo played on every Beatles recording that include drums
except for the following: "Back In The USSR" and "Dear Prudence," on
which Paul played drums due to Ringo temporarily quitting the band,
"The Ballad Of John And Yoko," again featuring Paul on drums
because Ringo was off making a movie, and a 1962 release of "Love Me
Do" featuring session drummer Andy White.

When the Beatles broke up and were trying to get away from each
other, John Lennon chose Ringo to play drums on his first solo
record. As John said in his famous Rolling Stone interview, "If I get
a thing going, Ringo knows where to go—just like that." A great song-
writer could ask no more of a drummer—except maybe to smile and bob
his head.

John Bryant is a session drummer and producer in Dallas, Texas. He
has recorded and toured with Ray Charles, the Paul Winter Consort,
and the University of North Texas One O'Clock Lab Band, and is cur-
rently a member of the D'Drum percussion ensemble. Bryant started
playing drums after seeing Ringo Starr on The Ed Sullivan Show in
1964. In 1976, he played a rehearsal with Paul McCartney & Wings
when regular drummer Joe English became ill.

[GRUNTERSDAD]

Exactly..............so there all you bashers and doubters.

[wy yung]

OK, I might be doing a bad thing by opening the Ringo debate, but here goes because it makes for good discussion. Do you think Ringo was all he was hyped up to be, drumming-wise. If he was an adequate drummer, then he was the perfect definition of an adequate drummer. He always kept basic beats, tasteful fills, and even sang once!

Personally, I think he is a good drummer for his time, when drummers just gave a nice groove and then some, and that he deserves credit not only for that but also for inspiring literally millions of people to take up the drum sticks. Not only a good sticksman, but also really influential.

Your two cents???

http://www.drummerworld.com/drummers/Ringo_Starr.html


I think the answer to this question lies in the # of units sold.

I don't understand the comment "for his time". Let's roll some names off the tongue from that time.

Shelly Manne
Buddy Rich
Earl Palmer
Elvin Jones
Jack DeJohnette
Tony Williams

And the list goes on and on. There were many great drummers during that time.

[Bernhard]

I think the answer to this question lies in the # of units sold.

I don't understand the comment "for his time". Let's roll some names off the tongue from that time.

Shelly Manne
Buddy Rich
Earl Palmer
Elvin Jones
Jack DeJohnette
Tony Williams

And the list goes on and on. There were many great drummers during that time.

He probably meant "that time" in the Rock-Field. There the Drummers like Earl Palmer or Hal Blaine or Buddy Harman were very back in the shadow of the singers - and not known. Only the Beatles brought the musicians into the frontrow.

On the other side in Jazz there were of course the great drummers very known as mentioned above...

Bernhard

[wy yung]

He probably meant "that time" in the Rock-Field. There the Drummers like Earl Palmer or Hal Blaine or Buddy Harman were very back in the shadow of the singers - and not known. Only the Beatles brought the musicians into the frontrow.

On the other side in Jazz there were of course the great drummers very known as mentioned above...

Bernhard

Oh right. That helps. Thanks.

[RICHARD STEPP]

I HAVE THE EXACT SET OF 1964 MARINE PEARL LUDWIG DRUMS AS RINGO PLAYED ,I AM MISSING THE FRONT HOOP AND HARDWARE , ALSO THE ORIGIONAL SNARE DRUM , ANYONE KNOW WHERE I COULD FIND THESE

[Mook]

2 things - firstly - I'm a huge Ringo fan & am not happy to hear people criticising him, although I usually find they're non-drummers who're simply perpetrating the myth. His playing on many songs is beautifully executed & I've never heard anyone really do those tympani style fills which he really made his own. 'Come Together', 'She Said, She Said', 'Dear Prudence' & the entire closing medley on Abbey Road are amongst my personal highlights.

However, one song which I fail to believe he played on was 'I Feel Fine' - I've seen him doing it live on the anthology DVD & he plays a far easier pattern on the ride - although many drummers change the parts they play in a live situation - it just doesnt feel the same. If Martin ever did get another drummer in for a song (other than Paul) - then this is it in my opinion...

[Ruok]

'Dear Prudence'

In the article Nutha Jason posted, it claims it was Paul on drums on "Dear Prudence." Is there any documentation proving this information? I tend to think it is Paul because I think the beat lags in spots and the hi-hat sounds a bit stiff, which Ringo usually doesn't sound like. The tom fills in the end do sound like Ringo though. Don't be upset with me if it is actually Ringo. I just think Ringo would have played the drums better than that recording shows, in my humble opinion.

[Mook]

I could be wrong about Dear Prudence, it sounds like Ringo to me - although I've never checked it out.

[onemat]

Just as a bit of added material, here is an article my friends dad wrote on ringo and bernard purdie. I found it very interesting. http://www.jimvallance.com/03-projects-folder/purdie-project-folder/pg-purdie.html

Purdie is full of himself and full of crap, PERIOD. It never happened.

[Bernhard]

Bernard Purdie is a great drummer and not full of crap. PERIOD

Bernhard

[Laurent]

Purdie is indeed a great drummer but he is full of himself. I met him a couple of times and he did not come across as the friendliest guy on earth. Sounded rather arrogant to me. Unlike Steve Gadd who is a true gentleman.

I refrained from commenting on Ringo because I am really wondering what people can hear in his playing. I have never ever heard anything in his playing that justifies all the hype around him. Had he not been in The Beatles no one would have listented to him the way they do now and he probably would not even be mentioned on this board. All this raving about his feel and the beautiful simple way he plays just goes beyond my head.

He was one member of the most influential band ever. But strictly speaking as a drummer I hear nothing amazing in his playing, not his feel, not his style and defintively not his technique.

I am not a fan of The Beatles at all but I fully respect and admire their unique contribution to popular music. I acknowledge that they are icons and trend setters. Their music do not move me at all but that's my problem.

I am sure he influenced a lot of drummers and encouraged them to pick up a pair of sticks. But so did Peter Criss who even though he's not an amazing player is still technically much more skilled than Ringo.

My point is not to slam Ringo. Not at all. I just think that he is only highly regarded as a drummer because of him being a Beatle and not for his drumming. That his legendary status is blinding people about his actual abilities.

[centralzeke]

I'm with Laurent. To me, Ringo Starr was an average drummer who played for the songs, a team player. Like (gulp) Charlie Watts.

[Bernhard]

No!

Here again the points:

The idea that Ringo was a lucky Johnny-on-the-spot-with-a-showbiz-stage-name is wrong. In fact, when Beatle producer George Martin expressed his unhappiness after the first session with original drummer Pete Best, the decision was made by Paul, George, and John to hire who they considered to be the best drummer in Liverpool - Ringo Starr. His personality was a bonus.


Ringo was the first true rock drummer to be seen on TV. All the Rock & Roll drummers featured with Elvis, Bill Haley, Little Richard, Fats Domino and Jerry Lee Lewis were mostly R&B drummers that were making the transition from a swing drumming style of the 40's and 50's toward the louder and more "rocking" sound that is associated with "I Want To Hold Your Hand". They were dressed in tuxedos and suits and held the drumsticks in the "traditional" manner of military, orchestra, and jazz drummers. Ringo showed the world that power was needed to put the emphasis on the "rock" in Rock & Roll music, so he gripped both sticks like hammers and proceeded to build a foundation for rock music.

Ringo changed the way drummers hold their sticks by making popular the "matched" grip of holding drumsticks. Nearly all drummers in the Western World prior to Ringo held their sticks in what is termed the "traditional" grip, with the left hand stick held like a chopstick. This grip was originally developed by military drummers to accomodate the angle of the drum when strapped over the shoulder. Ringo's grip changes the odd left hand to match the right hand, so that both sticks are held like a flyswatter. Rock drummers along with marching band and orchestral percussionists now mostly play with a "matched" grip, and drum companies have developed straps and accessories to accomodate them.

Ringo started a trend of placing drummers on high risers so that they would be as visible as the other musicians. When Ringo appeared on the Ed Sullivan Show in 1964, he immediately caught the attention of thousands of "drummers to be" by towering over the other three Beatles. Elvis's drummer was looking at a collection of backs.

These same "wannabe" drummers also noticed that Ringo was playing Ludwig drums and they immediately went out and bought thousands of these drumsets, thus establishing Ludwig as the definitive name in Rock & Roll drums at that time.

Ringo changed the sound of recorded drums. About the time of Rubber Soul (released Dec. 6,1965), the sound of the drumset started to become more distinct. Along with help from the engineers at Abbey Road studios, Ringo popularized a new sound for the drums by tuning them lower, deadening the tonal ring with muffling materials, and making them sound "closer" by putting a microphone on each drum.

Ringo has nearly perfect tempo. This allowed the Beatles to record a song 50 or 60 times, and then be able to edit together different parts of numerous takes of the same song for the best possible version. Today an electronic metronome is used for the same purpose, but the Beatles had to depend on Ringo to keep the tempo consistant throughout the dozens of takes of the songs that you know and love so well. Had he not had this ability, the Beatles recordings would sound completely different today.

Ringo's "feel" for the beat serves as a standard for pop-rock record producers and drummers alike. It is relaxed, but never dragging. Solid, yet always breathing. And yes, there is a great amount of musical taste in his decisions of what to play and when to play it. In most recording sessions, the drummer's performance acts as a barometer for the rest of the musicians. The stylistic direction, dynamics, and emotions are filtered through the drummer. He is the catcher to whom the pitcher/songwriter is throwing. If the drumming doesn't feel good, the performance of any additional musicians is doomed from the start. The Beatles rarely if ever had this problem with Ringo.

Ringo hated drum solos, which should win points with quite a few people. He only took one solo while with the Beatles. His eight measure solo appears during "The End" on the "B" side of Abbey Road. Some might say that it is not a great display of technical virtuosity, but they would be at least partially mistaken. You can set an electronic metronome to a perfect 126 beats per minute, then play it along with Ringo's solo and the two will stay exactly together.

Ringo's ability to play odd time signatures helped to push popular songwriting into uncharted areas. Two examples are "All you Need is Love" in 7/4 time, and "Here Comes the Sun" with repeating 11/8, 4/4, and 7/8 passages in the chorus.

Ringo's proficiency in many different styles such as two beat swing ("When I'm Sixty-Four"), ballads ("Something"), R&B ("Leave My Kitten Alone" and "Taxman") and country (the Rubber Soul album) helped the Beatles to explore many musical directions with ease. His pre-Beatle experience as a versatile and hard working nightclub musician served him well.

The rumors that Ringo did not play on many of the Beatle songs because he was not good enough are also false. In fact, he played on every released Beatles recording (not including Anthology 1) that include drums except for the following: "Back In The USSR" and "Dear Prudence", on which Paul played drums due to Ringo temporarily quitting the band, "The Ballad of John and Yoko", again featuring Paul on drums because Ringo was off making a movie, and a 1962 release of "Love Me Do" featuring session drummer Andy White.

When the Beatles broke up and they were all trying to get away from each other, John Lennon chose Ringo to play drums on his first solo record. As John once said, "If I get a thing going Ringo knows where to go, just like that.." A great songwriter could ask no more of a drummer. Except maybe to smile and bob his head.

Courtesy Ray Bryant http://web2.airmail.net/gshultz/bryant.html

Never bash Ringo!

Bernhard

[Paul Quin]

Boy, this is a subject that stirs up some confusing positions. I think some of the confusion may be resolved by defining what a "good drummer" is. Those who love Ringo and those who bash him may just be coming from two different definitions of the same term. Can Ringo play the chops of Vinnie or Virgil or Marco? No - but that doesn't stop him from being a great drummer. Could Vinnie or Virgil or Marco have made the music of Lennon/McCartney/Harrison better? Well maybe to the very limited number of people (overrepresented on any drum forum) who listen to music principally to hear the double paradiddlediddle played between left hand and right foot while the right hand plays an ostinato in a different time signature, but to everyone else the answer is a resounding NO. To the overwhelming majority Ringo's contribution to the music was perfect - and I don't use that word lightly - and not a single one of the modern raved-about drummers could have done it better, with the possible exception of Gadd. And anyone that has read anything I have ever written on this forum knows how much respect I have for Gadd. The reason I say possibly Gadd, is that Gadd, in playing for the music, would not have overplayed and his parts may have ended up sounding much like Ringos (excuse the rank speculation).

In my way of thinking, the esteem that Ringo has because he inspired many people to pick up the drums is relevant to his position as a musical legend but not necessarily to his reputation as a musician. It is his playing that makes his reputation and that alone is enough to make him a legend. His parts are non-traditional, inventive, exact in terms of time and feel and most important MUSICAL!

Some of this criticism reminds me of the posts (of which there are many) that talk about how the poster could never play in a band which required mostly 2 and 4 on the snare because that would be boring. I disagree. Such an approach is never boring IF that is what is called for by the music and is what makes the music better. To be an effective drummer you have to be a slave to the overall musical production and you have to LOVE it. To work, you (and everyone else) has to believe that your playing has contributed to the musicality of the piece. If that means holding back from those great new chops you have been practising and playing with space and restraint then that is what you must do. IN fact, if you do love what you do, it will never cross your mind to bust that stuff out - because it will not fit.

That is why Ringo is great - he made the musical product, of maybe the best songwriters in the pop genre, better.

So - don't bash Ringo -

Paul

By the way - great article by Jim Vallance

[irish_steve]

Bernhard...

I think the jury is still out as to why Pete Best was replaced by Ringo. Another take on the story has it that "the boys" were jealous of all the attention Pete was getting from the ladies and Brian Epstein realized that to keep the ego's in check and from a marketing perspective that attention needed to be diverted where it rightly belonged...front and center, Lennon & McCartney.

No debating that Ringo was one of the best drummers on the scene at the time but was it merely coincidence that he was also a real goofy looking sort of fellow...certainly not the model type looks that Pete had at the time

Have you heard the version of "Love me do" featuring Pete Best on the Anthology album???

This was basically their demo. It speeds up, is unsteady, and he completely changes the feel of the song (for the worse) in the middle.

George Martin told them they were good enough (he wasn't THAT impressed at the time with the Beatles, "Love me do" is quite a bland song) but their drummer was not good enough.

Now maybe Pete was just nervous, and it was a tough break, but he had a big chance and he blew it. I saw him playing in Liverpool last year and he was no better than your average pub drummer.

[FunkTional Art]

Boy, this is a subject that stirs up some confusing positions. I think some of the confusion may be resolved by defining what a "good drummer" is. Those who love Ringo and those who bash him may just be coming from two different definitions of the same term. Can Ringo play the chops of Vinnie or Virgil or Marco? No - but that doesn't stop him from being a great drummer. Could Vinnie or Virgil or Marco have made the music of Lennon/McCartney/Harrison better? Well maybe to the very limited number of people (overrepresented on any drum forum) who listen to music principally to hear the double paradiddlediddle played between left hand and right foot while the right hand plays an ostinato in a different time signature, but to everyone else the answer is a resounding NO. To the overwhelming majority Ringo's contribution to the music was perfect - and I don't use that word lightly - and not a single one of the modern raved-about drummers could have done it better, with the possible exception of Gadd. And anyone that has read anything I have ever written on this forum knows how much respect I have for Gadd. The reason I say possibly Gadd, is that Gadd, in playing for the music, would not have overplayed and his parts may have ended up sounding much like Ringos (excuse the rank speculation).

In my way of thinking, the esteem that Ringo has because he inspired many people to pick up the drums is relevant to his position as a musical legend but not necessarily to his reputation as a musician. It is his playing that makes his reputation and that alone is enough to make him a legend. His parts are non-traditional, inventive, exact in terms of time and feel and most important MUSICAL!

Some of this criticism reminds me of the posts (of which there are many) that talk about how the poster could never play in a band which required mostly 2 and 4 on the snare because that would be boring. I disagree. Such an approach is never boring IF that is what is called for by the music and is what makes the music better. To be an effective drummer you have to be a slave to the overall musical production and you have to LOVE it. To work, you (and everyone else) has to believe that your playing has contributed to the musicality of the piece. If that means holding back from those great new chops you have been practising and playing with space and restraint then that is what you must do. IN fact, if you do love what you do, it will never cross your mind to bust that stuff out - because it will not fit.

That is why Ringo is great - he made the musical product, of maybe the best songwriters in the pop genre, better.

So - don't bash Ringo -

Paul

By the way - great article by Jim Vallance

RIGHT ON !!

Sometime these threads remind me of gossip column and yes I do realize that this forum is here so us drummers can express our ideas and thoughts but let's not lose perspective and stck to the facts and take heed because there are some very good points and some very bad ones made.

"RINGO STARR IS ONE OF THE MOST MUSICAL DRUMMERS I'VE EVER HEARD"

About 5 years ago I saw Gregg Bissonnette in clinic and his whole clinic was mainly based on the RINGO'S DRUM parts int he Beatles music and he broke down the drum parts for several songs and had recorded all the tracks with his band called the "Mustard Seeds" which is pretty much completely influenced by the "BEATLES". So imagine Gregg in clinic playing his heart out laying down all of these RINGO grooves with a full mix in the house PA in a 600 seat theatre. Need I say more;

Here's a link that I just found as i was writing this thread ...
http://www.greggbissonette.com/ringo.html

You know I'm not always in the mood to listen to Vinnie or Dave play some progressive jazz fuzoid music although thats cool too!!

Learn about the heart and spirit of the music to better understand the musicians who play it and learn some Beatle tunes and then comment on Ringo's drumming and musicianship and if you still feel he is average then you need help.

[Kal_Indy]

I started reading this thread, and I questioned whether or not I would be able to add any input into it. But I know one reason why I know Ringo was not only influential, but also innovative. Correct me if it's already been mentioned, but Ringo was essentially the first drummer to play stadium shows to huge audiences....but he did it all without hearing any of the music.

Everyone knows live sound back in the 1960's was not the best. That fact helped attribute the premature end of The Beatles in a live setting. The Beatles were playing bigger venues than anyone. They were playing lots of shows in lots of countries and in lots of cities and every show was pretty much the same. They couldn't hear themselves! Most of those live tracks we get hear today are from shows in which they were playing without hearing much of the other memebers or themselves. Ringo has been known to say that he couldn't play big tom fills because the sound would disappear and the group would fall apart. He had a lot of pressure on him to keep it together, and because of his good music sense, he kept it simple, and showed other drummers playing large venues in the following years how to do it.

I know I've had to play shows without monitors. It's not the end of the world, and it doesn't kill me to not have them. But it would kill me to do it when there are 35,000+ screaming teenage girls in the audience. That would be tough to hold down and keep your composure and not get too excited or flustered. Ringo did it. I don't know if I could.

[spartacus1989]

The thing about Ringo, is the fact he was part of a band that revolutionised modern music, if he happened to be 10 years younger and joined a band like T-rex in the 70's, he would be no-where near as known as he is now!

To be honest, I think of him as a Beatle, not a drummer!

[Deltadrummer]

[QUO

"RINGO STARR IS ONE OF THE MOST MUSICAL DRUMMERS I'VE EVER HEARD"
[/QUOTE]

I just came from giving a lesson on Ringo. I look at several charts of Beatles music and show my students why he was a great drummer, what he brought to rock/pop drumming and why everyone went wild when the Beatles played. Drummers were not doing what Ringo was doing back in '64. There was a reason why he was hired when The Fab came to the USA.

[tomgrosset]

Ringo is a very unique and extraordinary drummer.

I also wanted to point out that Ringo has never been able to play/practice the drums by himself. He only likes to play when he's around other musicians.

[TOMANO]

Would Billy Cobham or Ginger Baker have fit into the Beatles scheme better than Ringo? Of course not. Ringo was the perfect non-threatening musician who was counted on to compliment the stylized George Martin studio sound and who would not Wow! listeners with riffs that might diminish the other three's capabilities.



That reminds me of the time I saw Terry Bozzio playing with The Knack at the Chicago House of Blues. Very bizarre. A forced fit if ever there was one. "My Sharona" and "Good Girls Don't" into a twenty minute ostinato-driven, "out there" solo drum excursion.

By the way, Ringo rocked. His drumming is a solid part of The Beatles' music. God Bless Ringo!!!

TOMANO

[Deltadrummer]

Ringo is an extraordinary drummer, one of those natural talents.

If you take a song like "It Won't Be Long" and look at the drum part, you will see some interesting things.

1) It is a simple Mersey Beat, but
Ringo accents the upbeat of two giving it a nice syncopated feel. It also requires some technique to accent that second note.
2) He phrases the drum beat in measures of two, which became a standard with funk drummers like Clyde Stubblefield. But most rock drummers at the time, even Hal Blaine, phrased their beats in one measure repeating intervals.
3) He integrates the flam into the fill he uses, and was one of the earliest, if not the earliest examples of rudiments in rock drumming. It takes some technique to execute that first fill. It is very musical, the way he simplifies the Mersey beat down into two bar phrases and then builds up to that fill. That's why the girls went wild.
4) He also got a fatter sound out of the drums.

In these four ways I see him as the precursor to guys like Bonham and Gadd.

[molly]

i am a bit surprised at some of these comments especially on a drummers forum.i never knew there was any "hype" about ringo.all i`ve ever seen is how crap he is,barely adequate,"knew a good thing when he saw it and rode it for all it was worth"...you guys should be ashamed of yourselves.if you don`t "get" ringo you don`t "get" drumming.
read bernhards first post again.ringo is a first rate musician and deserves a lot more respect than he seems to get.

[Deathmetalconga]

i am a bit surprised at some of these comments especially on a drummers forum.i never knew there was any "hype" about ringo.all i`ve ever seen is how crap he is,barely adequate,"knew a good thing when he saw it and rode it for all it was worth"...you guys should be ashamed of yourselves.if you don`t "get" ringo you don`t "get" drumming.
read bernhards first post again.ringo is a first rate musician and deserves a lot more respect than he seems to get.

Ringo is one of the most credited and admired drummers. I think even my cat cites him as an influence. He gets heaps of respect from drummers, as well he should.

Personally, I think his rhythms are basic and unimaginative. But he is undeniably the most influential drummer in history and inspired millions to take up drumming. For that, he is very noteworthy.

Google the phrase "the ringo starr of" for some interesting reading. While drummers universally hold Ringo in high esteem and acknowledge his cotributions, general pop culture sees him quite differently.

[onemat]

Any doubts about Ringo's drumming, go listen to "I Feel Fine". Try to duplicate what he's doing on that latin beat, especially the right hand pattern on the bell while keeping the rest together, at that tempo. Listen to "I Am Walrus"..simple but amazingly tasteful fills and groove playing. I could sit here and think of my favorite Ringo tracks all day.
Listen to him on the recent CD Ringorama..he still has it.

[Paul_Klein]

Ringo is one of the most credited and admired drummers.
Google the phrase "the ringo starr of" for some interesting reading. While drummers universally hold Ringo in high esteem and acknowledge his cotributions, general pop culture sees him quite differently.

"North Korea is the Ringo Starr of the Axis of Evil"

What?? Worst analogy ever.

As for the Ringo, I proudly state him as my first and main drumming influence.

[drumbent]

The entire Beatles Anthology is posted to YouTube (in ten min. segments). There are some great clips or Ringo's live playing, incl. him singing and playing one of my admittedly least-fave tunes "Act Naturally". His tempo is rock-solid, and that hi-hat shuffle is relentless! It starts at the 4.12 mark:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MHtYE3hSHWk

[Pat Petrillo]

"North Korea is the Ringo Starr of the Axis of Evil"

What?? Worst analogy ever.

As for the Ringo, I proudly state him as my first and main drumming influence.

Me, too !

Many Ringo gems include:

"She Said"
"I am the Walrus"
"In My Life"
"It's all too much"

Just so many to name...

[tsimp2]

Ringo Starr ........A true drum god!

[volvoguy]

Ringo was a *drummer*.

His playing doesn't seem like much to the kiddies who go to Guitar Center only to regurgitate their favorite "moves" on the drums.

Until you can truly appreciate his playing, you really can't call yourself a drummer.

-Ryan

[Vinnysimmo]

But an entire 3 generations of music lovers around the world danced to his beats and sung his music.

Please ask yourself why.

Couldn't have said it better myself.

[Tom Sawyer]

I remember jamming with the Beatles albums when I was a kid, and telling myself, "One day I wanna play like Ringo"...

[gmrakich]

Drummers who are musicians get Ringo and love him.
Drummers who are just drummers don't.
With Ringo's drumming there is something going on at a whole other level that some will never be able to see. Really feel sorry for them...they are missing what drumming is all about. It can be so much more than snare on two and four.

[KLittle123]

Rather a good episode of the wonder years

There's a beatle reference at the beginning and the end...

http://youtube.com/watch?v=W2uqtvfeMZY&feature=related

[Joecool1010]

RINGO STARR = #1 REASON WHY I GOT INTO DRUMMING

[Pollyanna]

...strictly speaking as a drummer I hear nothing amazing in his playing, not his feel, not his style and defintively not his technique.

True Laurent. It was mostly his composition - what he chose to play and what he chose to leave out - that was special.

[aydee]

.... what he chose to leave out - that was special.


,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,or couldn't play- and that was special.

Its not a musical crime to NOT be a technical monster. You can still say beautiful things through your instrument without having tons of chops. Which he did.

I love Ringo & Ringo was very tasteful and a huge part of the Beatles sound, but lets call and spade a spade and not endow him with qualities he didn't have.