Ringo Starr

[Sticksman]

OK, I might be doing a bad thing by opening the Ringo debate, but here goes because it makes for good discussion. Do you think Ringo was all he was hyped up to be, drumming-wise. If he was an adequate drummer, then he was the perfect definition of an adequate drummer. He always kept basic beats, tasteful fills, and even sang once!

Personally, I think he is a good drummer for his time, when drummers just gave a nice groove and then some, and that he deserves credit not only for that but also for inspiring literally millions of people to take up the drum sticks. Not only a good sticksman, but also really influential.

Your two cents???

http://www.drummerworld.com/drummers/Ringo_Starr.html

[Bernhard]

I'm a big fan of Ringo, so here are the points:


The idea that Ringo was a lucky Johnny-on-the-spot-with-a-showbiz-stage-name is wrong. In fact, when Beatle producer George Martin expressed his unhappiness after the first session with original drummer Pete Best, the decision was made by Paul, George, and John to hire who they considered to be the best drummer in Liverpool - Ringo Starr. His personality was a bonus.


Ringo was the first true rock drummer to be seen on TV. All the Rock & Roll drummers featured with Elvis, Bill Haley, Little Richard, Fats Domino and Jerry Lee Lewis were mostly R&B drummers that were making the transition from a swing drumming style of the 40's and 50's toward the louder and more "rocking" sound that is associated with "I Want To Hold Your Hand". They were dressed in tuxedos and suits and held the drumsticks in the "traditional" manner of military, orchestra, and jazz drummers. Ringo showed the world that power was needed to put the emphasis on the "rock" in Rock & Roll music, so he gripped both sticks like hammers and proceeded to build a foundation for rock music.

Ringo changed the way drummers hold their sticks by making popular the "matched" grip of holding drumsticks. Nearly all drummers in the Western World prior to Ringo held their sticks in what is termed the "traditional" grip, with the left hand stick held like a chopstick. This grip was originally developed by military drummers to accomodate the angle of the drum when strapped over the shoulder. Ringo's grip changes the odd left hand to match the right hand, so that both sticks are held like a flyswatter. Rock drummers along with marching band and orchestral percussionists now mostly play with a "matched" grip, and drum companies have developed straps and accessories to accomodate them.

Ringo started a trend of placing drummers on high risers so that they would be as visible as the other musicians. When Ringo appeared on the Ed Sullivan Show in 1964, he immediately caught the attention of thousands of "drummers to be" by towering over the other three Beatles. Elvis's drummer was looking at a collection of backs.

These same "wannabe" drummers also noticed that Ringo was playing Ludwig drums and they immediately went out and bought thousands of these drumsets, thus establishing Ludwig as the definitive name in Rock & Roll drums at that time.

Ringo changed the sound of recorded drums. About the time of Rubber Soul (released Dec. 6,1965), the sound of the drumset started to become more distinct. Along with help from the engineers at Abbey Road studios, Ringo popularized a new sound for the drums by tuning them lower, deadening the tonal ring with muffling materials, and making them sound "closer" by putting a microphone on each drum.

Ringo has nearly perfect tempo. This allowed the Beatles to record a song 50 or 60 times, and then be able to edit together different parts of numerous takes of the same song for the best possible version. Today an electronic metronome is used for the same purpose, but the Beatles had to depend on Ringo to keep the tempo consistant throughout the dozens of takes of the songs that you know and love so well. Had he not had this ability, the Beatles recordings would sound completely different today.

Ringo's "feel" for the beat serves as a standard for pop-rock record producers and drummers alike. It is relaxed, but never dragging. Solid, yet always breathing. And yes, there is a great amount of musical taste in his decisions of what to play and when to play it. In most recording sessions, the drummer's performance acts as a barometer for the rest of the musicians. The stylistic direction, dynamics, and emotions are filtered through the drummer. He is the catcher to whom the pitcher/songwriter is throwing. If the drumming doesn't feel good, the performance of any additional musicians is doomed from the start. The Beatles rarely if ever had this problem with Ringo.

Ringo hated drum solos, which should win points with quite a few people. He only took one solo while with the Beatles. His eight measure solo appears during "The End" on the "B" side of Abbey Road. Some might say that it is not a great display of technical virtuosity, but they would be at least partially mistaken. You can set an electronic metronome to a perfect 126 beats per minute, then play it along with Ringo's solo and the two will stay exactly together.

Ringo's ability to play odd time signatures helped to push popular songwriting into uncharted areas. Two examples are "All you Need is Love" in 7/4 time, and "Here Comes the Sun" with repeating 11/8, 4/4, and 7/8 passages in the chorus.

Ringo's proficiency in many differen styles such as two beat swing ("When I'm Sixty-Four"), ballads ("Something"), R&B ("Leave My Kitten Alone" and "Taxman") and country (the Rubber Soul album) helped the Beatles to explore many musical directions with ease. His pre-Beatle experience as a versatile and hard working nightclub musician served him well.

The rumors that Ringo did not play on many of the Beatle songs because he was not good enough are also false. In fact, he played on every released Beatles recording (not including Anthology 1) that include drums except for the following: "Back In The USSR" and "Dear Prudence", on which Paul played drums due to Ringo temporarily quitting the band, "The Ballad of John and Yoko", again featuring Paul on drums because Ringo was off making a movie, and a 1962 release of "Love Me Do" featuring session drummer Andy White.

When the Beatles broke up and they were all trying to get away from each other, John Lennon chose Ringo to play drums on his first solo record. As John once said, "If I get a thing going Ringo knows where to go, just like that.." A great songwriter could ask no more of a drummer. Except maybe to smile and bob his head.

Courtesy Ray Bryant http://web2.airmail.net/gshultz/bryant.html

Bernhard

[Superlow]

I am not the biggest fan of Ringo, but I appreciate the Beatles and give credit where credit is due. I am still amazed by his drumming on Rubber Soul, the kits sound great on that record. The tunes are great pop tunes no one can deny that. He played for the Beatles, a band that is very much based on lyrics and harmonies. I think for the instruments sake it was almost secondary. It's funny a lot of musicians will pose the who's better argument of Charlie Watts or Ringo, I don't understand how these guys got a bad rap for their drumming.

[Sticksman]

I'm impressed. I always knew Ringo was a good drummer, but one of the surprises in Bernhard's post was when I read that "Here Comes the Sun" is played in 11/8, 4/4, and 7/8. I never would've guessed. Either way, great post.

[SpiderPine]

Just as a bit of added material, here is an article my friends dad wrote on ringo and bernard purdie. I found it very interesting. http://www.jimvallance.com/03-projects-folder/purdie-project-folder/pg-purdie.html

[Raymond Bloom]

I just wanted to post that link... :) Really, really interesting source! Thx for sharing!!

[Bonham to the moon]

he did what was asked of him, no more, no less.

[Placeboman]

OH-----------MY-----------------GOD.Burdie was a Beatle?????heh,the truth has a nasty way of getting out there :) Next its revealed that Elvis the King didn´t sing on his records????
If that happens,then ill do something drastic :)

[tallassfreak89]

Come on guys, he was not that good. the only thing that made him larger than life was that he was part of the beatles. You can argue all you want about how he can keep good tempo and make good beats but hes not all that good of a drummer (as in what your skill is as a drummer).

[Kevlar]

You can argue all you want about how he can keep good tempo and make good beats but hes not all that good of a drummer (as in what your skill is as a drummer).

I'd argue that those are qualities that make a good drummer. What is your definition of drumming skills?
Please go listen to Abbey Road, and then tell us all what's not all that good about the drumming.

[NUTHA JASON]

i'm afraid tallassfreak89 that you are treading on dangerous ground here. our beloved founder, bernard is a die hard fan of ringo. since i've been on this forum it is the one aspect of his posts that never changes. if he had a quote that he uses often, like homer says 'hmm dooonuts aaaaarrghghg!' it is certainly: 'don't bash ringo' ... a friendly warning. if you have critiscism about this particular drummer you'd better have lots of evidence to back it up ...

bashing ringo may actually be a banning offence.

j

ps: jokes. but do expand on your opinion.

[Superlow]

I find the Purdie playing for the Beatles not surprising at all. He is the most recorded drummer why would he stop there. He's the guy you bring in the studio when you want job done right. Interesting post.

[needforspeed182]

Hes good now thats about it tho, he wasnt anything out of the ordinary back then

[Bonham to the moon]

He is the most recorded drummer

actually steve gadd is

[nickolas_sahaf]

Ringo is one on lovely drummers in the hole world..............................

[LittleRock]

Ringo... what can you say, probably the most influencial drummer of our time. That washy sound that he got from his hi-hats is still being heard today. His drums sounded real good and he had incredible feel. Sure, he may have not been the most "technical" drummer but his feel was second to none. You probably could not count how many drummers decided to pick up the sticks after seeing him play. My favorite drummer, Ringo!

[Stu_Strib]

I guess Ringo gets a lot of credit for being a drummer at that time. He certainly doesn't hold a candle up against many of the later great drummers that came after him (many of whom admit Ringo was a big influence)

Lets face it, Ringo IS a rock 'n roll star, and we can't take that away from him.

I like Charlie Watts better, of all the bashed beloved Bernhard drummers on here. But Charlie doesn't have the rockstar persona that Ringo has. Not even the name!!

Plus Ringo was in the movie 'Caveman'. That should shut everyone up for now! hehe

stu

[eddrummer05]

ringo its a classic.. i admire him

[Bernhard]

i'm afraid tallassfreak89 that you are treading on dangerous ground here. our beloved founder, bernard is a die hard fan of ringo. since i've been on this forum it is the one aspect of his posts that never changes. if he had a quote that he uses often, like homer says 'hmm dooonuts aaaaarrghghg!' it is certainly: 'don't bash ringo' ... a friendly warning. if you have critiscism about this particular drummer you'd better have lots of evidence to back it up ...

bashing ringo may actually be a banning offence.

j

ps: jokes. but do expand on your opinion.

Nutha, I'm back from Vienna and I see, that you hold very strong my position on Ringo.
Thank you soo much. Perhabs it's a spleen of me - but I like this guy.
We all know the skills some drummers have today. But anyway - all drummers that I admit they have more skills don't bash Ringo - they even admire him. Take Steve Gadd, Gregg Bissonette, Dennis Chambers, Dave Weckl: all told it to me personally.

And even, if he's not so great - who saled more records?
And for sure he's the better drummer as 99.99% of us forum members. And the forum is for us all - also Drummerworld-Concept is for us all - let's have fun......and please don't bash Ringo.....

Thank you

Bernhard

[Funkdaddy]

If you look at MD's interview with Sir Paul McCartney (an addition to the interview with Abe Laboriel jr), he says it's nonsense that Purdie played on some Beatles tracks and he can't believe Purdie has claimed that.

From an objective view: If Ringo didn't record every single Beatles tune, so what? He was (and is) a part of great music history and he certainly is a good drummer, a good musician and a good man.

[Mike T.]

Even though I grew up during the 70's (after the breakup of the Beatles), I was heavily influenced by Ringo. One of the most indelible memories I had of him was a clip I saw of the Beatles performing at a stadium (perhaps Shea, I'm not positive). He had the drum riser shaking while playing "I Wanna Hold Your Hand." Later, in my teens, when I started listening to different bands and drummers, I didn't think anything of Ringo or the Beatles because he wasn't busy or flashy and didn't play a big kit (afterall, it was the 80's). As I grew older and started playing the drums, I started to realize how great Ringo was. His drum parts fit perfectly within the songs. His feel is underrated; yes, we could all play his parts note for note, but it would not sound or feel the same. I'm still knocked out by his early drum sound. Those swishy hi hats and high-pitched snare still stand up to anything recorded today. He is more influential that a lot of us are willing to admit.

[ludwigdrummer]

I still play my 1970 Black Oyster Pearl Ludwig set when I play out and at least once a night someone asks me if it is a copy or the real thing. It's always a big hit with other drummers. So I'd say Ringo was a big influence on me and my style. All the fancy chops are great but if you can't keep time then why bother.

[Henry II]

I wasn't there when the Beatles recorded their great albums, so my opinions are based only on what I've heard, seen and my knowledge of drumming. One thing that cannot be denied, Ringo had impecible time, and a great feel for rock and roll. I've never seen Ringo demonstrate any advanced level of chops, but, I have seen film of him playing live in which he demonstrates some impressive power and endurance with his right hand high hat work. (Playing along to some of his songs is indeed a right hand challenge). There's also no way for me to know what part Ringo played in his own drum parts. He was the drummer for some of the greatest, most creative pop song writers in history. I wouldn't be surprised if Paul, John and George played major roles in determining what Ringo's drum parts. Isn't it odd that Ringo never played a double stroke or paradiddle. In any event, he played his parts to perfection.

[Seafroggys]

Ringo was a major influence on me when I first started playing about 5 years ago. Sure he wasn't the reason why I picked up sticks (it was actually my brother's high school marching band, which I was later a part of) but my favorite band at the time, and still is, The Beatles, so I sat down and drummed along to Ringo tracks. I absolutly love him. Plus I saw him live, so eat that!

Even though now I've moved on and I'm jamming with Cream, Hendrix, Deep Purple, and The Who, I still go back to my all-time favorite band and lay down some 'slightly' more complicated fills on top of Ringo's. Its so much fun, he is such a great drummer. I still have trouble playing the End solo :(

Even compared with all the drummers of today, just take a listen to Abbey Road, and on it you'll hear some of the best drumming of all time. Even if you aren't impressed with his skill, listen to his drum sound. It is unmatched before and since. Those toms just give me the willies when I hear them!

[Bernhard]

It's very easy:

WITHOUT RINGO THERE WOULD BE NO DRUMMERWORLD
Thank you Mr. Starkey

Long long - very long - time ago - I picked up the sticks because of Ringo (and perhabs also because of Brian Bennett - Little B - Shadows)

It took some years - even after being pro for some time - then I discovered SG BR and GK.

I'm sure 100'000 drummers are getting better drummers studying Steve.....
But 5 Million picked up the sticks because of Ringo.

Not to speak about the Ludwig Drum Company who had to buy forests in Canada to make more drumsets. OK - quality went down, because the wood was not good - too fresh and not old enough, but that's another story. I'm proud of my 1964 - old - original - Ludwig Drum-Set..... also another story...

Bernhard

[Narada]

What is really reprehensible when the question of Ringo's drumming dexterity rears its ugly head is that Paul, John and George never did the right thing when they unceremoniously dumped Pete Best from the group in the first place.

Considering that the type of live drumming required by Rock & Roll percussionist in the early 1960's was not what it was by the late 1960's, Best was as good as, or better than, Ringo. John, Paul and George never complained about Best's competency for the year he played in clubs with them. In fact, it seems Best was the real draw for the chics who came to see these Liverpudlians.

It is obvious that when the Beatles were about to turn the corner, they had pangs of insecurity and even resentment about their current drummer, who was better looking and who might upstage their lyrics and melodies.

Would Billy Cobham or Ginger Baker have fit into the Beatles scheme better than Ringo? Of course not. Ringo was the perfect non-threatening musician who was counted on to compliment the stylized George Martin studio sound and who would not Wow! listeners with riffs that might diminish the other three's capabilities.

But it is interesting when the group (John, Paul, George) pursued individual careers, they all employed drummers whom they did not inhibit from a more productive and energetic rhythm than Ringo demonstrated on the Beatles 13 albums.

Had Ringo been Herman's Hermit's drummer would anyone know his name today? No. But Ringo was smart enough to know a good thing when he saw it (heard it?) and he rode the Beatles phenomenon for all it was worth.

[jamndrummer]

It's very easy:

WITHOUT RINGO THERE WOULD BE NO DRUMMERWORLD
Thank you Mr. Starkey

Long long - very long - time ago - I picked up the sticks because of Ringo (and perhabs also because of Brian Bennett - Little B - Shadows)

It took some years - even after being pro for some time - then I discovered SG BR and GK.

I'm sure 100'000 drummers are getting better drummers studying Steve.....
But 5 Million picked up the sticks because of Ringo.

Not to speak about the Ludwig Drum Company who had to buy forests in Canada to make more drumsets. OK - quality went down, because the wood was not good - too fresh and not old enough, but that's another story. I'm proud of my 1964 - old - original - Ludwig Drum-Set..... also another story...

Bernhard

I wanted to play drums at a very young age, my two influences were John Bohnam and Mitch Mitchel

[onemat]

Ringo's playing might seem deceptively easy to some of you until you try to play it. I particularly liked some of his performances on "Live at The BBC".There's a track on there where he's doing some great fast paradiddles on the intro. On "What Goes On" his right hand pattern on the hats is really tough to do while not doing straight 4s on the kick. The fact that he didn't solo much doesn't bother me at all. Try to do the latin beat of "I Feel Fine" at that speed and stay at even tempo. His fills are really hard to imitate unless you're a lefty playing a right hand kit. Then we get into some of the original grooves and use of things. The Timpany on "A Day In The Life" being integrated into the kit and not overdubbed?...absolutley brilliant. Listen to his groove and fills on "Flying" or the ferocious playing on "Slow Down"! He played those hats wide open while rocking. Where ya thing Bonham go the idea for that sound? Ringo. I love the man's playing, and I love the man.

As for Gadd being the most recorded drummer in pop music, I don't know. Hal Blaine maybe? I guess it depends on the time frame too. ...Matt

[EXIT]

As for Gadd being the most recorded drummer in pop music, I don't know. Hal Blaine maybe? I guess it depends on the time frame too. ...Matt

Yeah, I found that one a bit hard to believe too, I would suggest Sly Dunbar...

Also, I was a big fan of Ringo until I saw the extras on the Band's The Last Waltz DVD. There's a long jam on it, it's pretty awful (most of the musicians who guested during the gig are on stage at the same time, so it's quite a mess), and Ringo is in the middle, adding to the chaos. Now I'm not totally dissing Ringo, I just thought that it was weak, and especially seeing as it was the drummer who had come up with such amazing stuff as Tomorrow Never Knows etc etc...I thought he could have put a bit of a shape on things. Maybe I'm being a bit harsh...many of the most famous musicians in the world on stage at the same time, it's forgiveable that no-one had the nerve to take the bull by the horns. Just a lost opportunity.


Hey! First post! Hooray!

[MissLSSD]

http://web2.airmail.net/gshultz/bryant.html

Nice first post I guess...

And why there is no topic for Zak Starkey?

[Zak_fan]

I am a huge fan of both Ringo and Zak. There should definately be a section dedicated to Zak's work. I love Keith Moon too, and in my opinion there is no one else who can fill the void left by moonie.

Kelly

[DogBreath]

And why there is no topic for Zak Starkey?
Because you haven't started one yet?

[screaming muffin]

i did a search and i didn't find a ringo thread!! !?!?!!!!!!

i love his playing, he has a nice touch, very natural.. he is creative, very expressive, very musical and he did the beatles proud IMO

i love A Day in a Life, that has such a great feel to it, and strawberry fields too.. i can't really put into words what it is i like about his playing, or how much i like it, but yeah i just thought he deserved a thread of his own (like he'd care, but still..)

[Henry II]

Ringo played the drums the way a composer would write a drummer's part for the music the Beatles played. He made the music better and never overplayed. He never played with chops or did anything that would draw the listener's attention from the overall sound of the music to the drums.

[Pocketman]

Ringo played with personality and creativity. These are two things we all strive for. He was a bona fide professional drummer before he joined The Beatles. He inspired more people to start playing drums than anyone else. Although he's never been known as a technician, if he wasn't any good he would not have been in the biggest band in the world to begin with. Even after the Fab Four broke up he played on everybody's solo albums. You can't not acknowlege that. Buddy Rich was once quoted as saying "Ringo was adequate, nothing more." Well, given Buddy's penchant for calling rock drummers no-talent animals, I'd take that as a compliment!

[photon]

Being 44, like thousands of others Ringo was my inspiration to play the drums. While Ringo's drumming obviously did the job my one knock against him is that while the other band members grew and matured so much in their songwriting and playing Ringo remained as he ever was...adequate at best. Must have been his self admitted disdain for practicing. I will say that Ringo did pioneer that slamming rock style we all still see today. I mean take a look at some of the old videos...that whole kit was just swaying when he played...and match grip too at a time when that was not even considered a valid grip!

That being said no one really cares but other drummers. Ask your average man on the street to name a famous drummer and 99 times out of 100 they will say Ringo!

[OldHippy]

By the time the Beatles came to the U.S. I was just old enough to go to bars (18 was legal then) and I watched a lot of drummers in bar bands. When Ringo appeared on Ed Sullivan we were saying that he wasn't any good, and besides he held his sticks all wrong. I'm still not convinced that he was a very good drummer, but one thing he did do was introduce a whole new rock beat. Up to then most bands were playing four on the floor for bass. Also he influenced many people, me included, to take up drums, just as the others got a lot of guitar players started.

[sgt.pepper1986]

I was wondering if there were any Ringo threads anywhere! I love Ringo. He is by far my favorite drummer. He doesn't try to take over a song, but he does give as much backbone to it as it needs. To point out a few of his particularly good tunes.........

I Feel Fine- the drum part on this song is quite complicated, yet he stays steady on through.

Rain- I really like the fills he puts in this song, bouncing around between snare and tom(s)

Helter Skelter- his work on this song sounds almost heavy metal, with the loud, bashing rhythm (and the part at the end where he yells "I've got blisters on my fingers!")

Come Together- I like the parts before the verses where he circles from ride to hi-hat to toms and back again.

Here Comes the Sun- this is a rather complicated drum part that he again did perfectly. I believe the tempos change throughout the song.

Those are it for now. I could go on for a lot longer, but I won't. DON'T BASH RINGO! haha.

[photon]

I'm a big fan of Ringo, so here are the points:


The idea that Ringo was a lucky Johnny-on-the-spot-with-a-showbiz-stage-name is wrong. In fact, when Beatle producer George Martin expressed his unhappiness after the first session with original drummer Pete Best, the decision was made by Paul, George, and John to hire who they considered to be the best drummer in Liverpool - Ringo Starr. His personality was a bonus.

Bernhard

Bernhard...

I think the jury is still out as to why Pete Best was replaced by Ringo. Another take on the story has it that "the boys" were jealous of all the attention Pete was getting from the ladies and Brian Epstein realized that to keep the ego's in check and from a marketing perspective that attention needed to be diverted where it rightly belonged...front and center, Lennon & McCartney.

No debating that Ringo was one of the best drummers on the scene at the time but was it merely coincidence that he was also a real goofy looking sort of fellow...certainly not the model type looks that Pete had at the time

[photon]

Ooops...I see Narada already covered that Pete Best angle that I mentioned...

...note to self...read all posts first before replying.............

What I still can't believe after all these years and all the success the Beatles had, not one of them ever spoke to Pete again. You would think that there would be some sense of guilt. I mean they went through the wars together and then when they are on the threshold of greatness...poof...they boot him.

I know if I was John, Paul or George with all their millions I would have rang him up and said thanks for getting us there Pete...here's a million dollars for all your hard work...you have a nice life.

That's the one part I don't understand.........

[harryconway]

Ringo did everything The Beatles needed him to do. Just like Charlie does everything the Stones need. They both know when "too much cowbell is too much".

[pcmckay]

I feel Ringo could probably do a lot more on the kit then he showed. He just played what the music needed, a steady back beat. His playing in my opinon shows that he is a good musician. Think about it , you have Lennon, Harrison, and McCartney out in front. Three great song writers with great lyrics, and the best three part harmony in Rock history. Why would you want to possibly drown that out by overplaying? I think his playing shows his understanding of music, ensemble is more important then self promotion.

[Drifter in the Dark]

I remember back in 1994 when I was in 6th grade. . . I got ahold of Rubber Soul and flipped my lid over the drumming on that album! This was the disc that really blew it wide open for me and made me realize that I wanted to be a drummer for the rest of my days. I can still remember putting a blanket over my toms and a wallet on my snare so I could get the sound he had on "Come Together"!
To me, there is something very infectious about Ringo's style; he has this great, loping feel with just a touch of his own original British funkiness and soul. That may sound weird, but I do believe that Ringo, in his own way, was a funky drummer!

[tron]

Ringo is definately a Great drummer and one that was perfect for the Beatles.
I can't really fault his work that much and where he shines he really shines....
The drumming on She Said is wicard for example.

What really gets to me is that he was getting even better ,, like the drumming on Abbey Road for example ... Something and Oh Darling and Come Together have very cool dumming.
His peak may be the Plastic Ono Band record he played on.
The drum sound is very unique and original as well.

[plangan]

Come on guys, he was not that good. the only thing that made him larger than life was that he was part of the beatles. You can argue all you want about how he can keep good tempo and make good beats but hes not all that good of a drummer (as in what your skill is as a drummer).


I have a personal rule.. dont bash other drummers.. especially those who are legends and pioneers. The fact is, im sure your an alright drummer, but can you get up infront of half the world and play as well as he did... that man had talent..no questions asked, especially in a time that was new to tech drumming and rock and roll drumming..the man was a genious

[somedrummer]

Just noticed that today is Ringo's birthday. Just thought I'd say

HAPPY BIRTHDAY RINGO!

[Mediocrefunkybeat]

Hooray! Do we get cake?

[somedrummer]

Aww man, I wish............

[GRUNTERSDAD]

Avatar, avatar, avatar.....Happy Birthday to Ringo, and to My Sister

[AllTheCoolNamesAreTaken]

I'm a Ringo fan. I was defending Ringo before I ever thought of becoming a drummer, because if you actually listen to the Beatles (as I did, over and over, growing up due to my hippie parents) you will probably find that even though the drum beats are technically pretty simple, they're generally a very strong part of the song. One of my favorites is "Everybody's Got Something to Hide Except Me and My Monkey". Whacky beat, played impeccably.

Two things I need to refute: first, the nonsense that Purdie played 'all of' Ringo's drum tracks. I have a copy of The Beatles Anthology, where Ringo very frankly talks about how he became a member of the group, and the songs he did and did not play. Except for Andy White playing drums on 'Love Me Do' (which Ringo is rather pissed about to this day, since it's a trivial drum beat) and Paul/John trying to play drums on songs like "Back in the USSR" due to tension within the group, Ringo played them all. The article linked above does a very solid job of discrediting Purdie's statements about playing in Ringo's stead, so the only reason I could see for anyone actually furthering this nonsense is because they just don't like Ringo.

Second, all this crap about The Beatles picking Ringo because Pete Best was supposedly too good or too hot or whatever - just drop it. The Beatles replaced Pete Best because he wasn't a good enough drummer, he didn't practice, and he didn't show up for gigs. From The Beatles Anthology:

Paul McCartney: "George Martin ... was not very pleased with Pete Best. George Martin was very used to drummers being very 'in time'. George took us to one side and said 'I'm really unhappy with the drummer. Would you consider changing him?' We said, 'No, we can't!' It was one of those terrible things you go through as kids. Can we betray him? No. But our career was on the line."
John Lennon: "This myth built up over the years that he was great and Paul was jealous of him because he was pretty and all that crap. They didn't get on that much together, but it was partly because Pete was a bit slow. He was a harmless guy, but he was not quick. The reason he got into the group in the first place was because we had to have a drummer to get to Hamburg. We were always going to dump him when we could find a decent drummer, but by the time we were back from Germany we'd trained him to keep a stick going up and down (four-in-the-bar, he couldn't do much else) and he looked nice and the girls liked him, so it was all right."
George Harrison: "To me it was apparent: Pete kept being sick and not showing up for gigs so we would get Ringo to sit in with the band instead, and every time Ringo sat in, it seemed like 'this is it'. Eventually we realised, 'We should get Ringo in the band full time.' I was quite responsible for stirring things up. I conspired to get Ringo in for good."
Paul McCartney: "Pete Best was good, but a bit limited. You can hear the difference on the Anthology tapes. When Ringo joins us we get a bit more kick, a few more imaginative breaks, and the band settles."

So in the end you either like him or dislike him because of how he drums, not because of some BS story about him replacing a better drummer who was prettier, or being a shell pretending to play what Purdie really played.

Ringo was obviously very capable, if not a great technical drummer (something he freely admits to - as my sig used to say, he believes that drumming should be solid rather than busy).

If you want to bag on a drummer, why not Meg from the White Stripes? There's a really, really limited drummer. And the best part is that if you criticize her, Jack calls you a misogynist. What a world.

[d.c.drummer]

Ringo while not a dennis chambers or jo jo mayer was a drummer. A good solid drummer. He diid wat was necessary for the music and did it well. His ability as a timekeeper was never outshineded by his ego and he was very creative. I wouldn't pick him for the any other type of music but for the music he played he was pretty damn good.

[fullmoon]

i love what he did on "come together"

[wooltonboy]

For all the Ringo Starr bashers out there, check out his website at www.ringostarr.com
Go to the "updates" tab, where he checks in every few weeks and leaves a small video clip message to his fans.
Click on the update for 7/04/06.
Ringo sits behind a beautiful marine pearl Ludwig kit, and does a short little display of his talent. Now, I know a lot of you will say "I can do that", but look at the effortless technique of his.
He was, and always will be a phenominal drummer.
Cheers
Phil

[White]

That wasn't all that "Amazing" lol, liek ya, I could paly that wih very little effort haha, I havn't always been a big fan of Ringo (not a Ringo basher lol) BUt ya, I just never found him that amazing of a drummer, I respect that alot of ppl became drummers listning to him, its just he's not as complex as I like to listen to 9I know complexity isn't a factor of drummin ,I just enjoy listning to it) But ya, I find this was a pointless thread lol.

[wooltonboy]

That wasn't all that "Amazing" lol, liek ya, I could paly that wih very little effort haha, I havn't always been a big fan of Ringo (not a Ringo basher lol) BUt ya, I just never found him that amazing of a drummer, I respect that alot of ppl became drummers listning to him, its just he's not as complex as I like to listen to 9I know complexity isn't a factor of drummin ,I just enjoy listning to it) But ya, I find this was a pointless thread lol.


Mmmm....My point exactly.

[NUTHA JASON]

i found a great article on ringo in my july 1997 modern drummer. for the rest of the article you will need to nuy the back issue or the archive but this part of the article is particularly valuable to any ringo talk.


Thirteen Reasons To Give Ringo Some Respect
by John Bryant
as Ringo Starr the luckiest no-talent on earth? All he had to do was
smile, bob his head, and keep the beat for three of the most talented
musicians/songwriters of the century. Sadly, there are people who actual-
ly feel this way about Starr. Frankly, they're missing quite a bit. The fol-
lowing list shows just a. few of the contributions Ringo made to the Beatles,
to music in general, and to the art of drumming.

Ringo was the first true rock drummer to be seen on TV. All of the early
"rock 'n' roll drummers" featured with Elvis, Bill.Haley, Little Richard,
Fats Domino, and Jerry Lee Lewis were mostly R&B drummers. These
players were barely making the transition from the swing drumming style of
the '40s and '50s to the louder and more "rocking" sound that is associated
with "I Want To Hold Your Hand."

Ringo changed the way drummers hold their sticks by making popular the
"matched" grip. Nearly all drummers in the modern Western world prior
to Ringo held their sticks with the "traditional" grip. Ringo showed the
world that power was needed to put the emphasis on the "rock" in rock 'n'
roll music, so he gripped both sticks like hammers and proceeded to build a
foundation for the music.

Ringo started a trend of placing drummers on high risers so that they
would be as visible as the other musicians. Certainly Ringo was not the
first drummer on a riser, but his visibility did proclaim him to be an equal
member of the band. This is significant because most drummers before him
were considered only sidemen. When Ringo appeared on The Ed Sullivan
Show in 1964, he immediately caught the attention of thousands of future
musicians by towering over the other three Beatles.

These same viewers noticed that Ringo was playing drums—Ludwig
drums, in fact. Ringo's influence was immediate. A mad rush to purchase
equipment ensued, and subsequently the entire percussion industry went
into a "boom" period that would last for years to come.

Ringo changed the sound of recorded drums. About the time of Rubber
Soul (released December 6, 1965), the sound of his drumset started to
become more distinct. Along with help from the engineers at Abbey Road
studios, Ringo popularized a new sound for drums—a clearer, more up-
close effect. He did this by tuning the drums lower and deadening the ring
with muffling materials (especially pillows in the bass drum). This sound
was to become very influential.

Ringo has nearly perfect tempo. This allowed the Beatles to record a song
twenty-five times, and then be able to edit together different parts of
numerous takes for the best possible version. Today click tracks are used
for the same purpose, but the Beatles had to depend on Ringo to keep the
tempo consistent throughout the dozens of takes. Had he not had this abili-
ty, the Beatles recordings would sound completely different. His perfect
time and good feel give Beatles tunes an "ageless" quality.

In most recording sessions the drummer's performance acts as a barome-
ter for the rest of the musicians. The stylistic direction, dynamics, and
emotions are filtered through the drummer. He is the catcher to whom the
pitcher/songwriter is throwing. If the drumming doesn't feel good, the per-
formance of any additional musicians is doomed from the start. The Beatles
rarely had this problem with Ringo.

Ringo's "feel" serves as a standard for pop-rock record producers and
drummers alike. It is relaxed, but never dragging; solid, yet always breath-
ing. There is a uniqueness to Ringo's playing that can in some ways be
attributed to his being a left-handed drummer playing a right-handed drum-
set. Ringo's distinctive tom fills that lead with the left hand are just as
important to his sound as Steve Gadd's rudimental stickings are to his. And
yes, there is a great amount of musical taste in Ringo's decisions as to what
to play and when to play it.

Ringo hated drum solos, which, like it or not, wins points with quite a few
people. He only took one solo with the Beatles. His eight-measure break
appears during "The End" from Abbey Road. Some might say that it's not
a great display of technical virtuosity, but they would be at least partially
mistaken. Set a metronome to a perfect 126 beats per minute, line it up with
Ringo's solo, and the two will stay together!

Ringo's ability to play odd time signatures helped to push popular song-
writing into uncharted areas. Two examples include "All You Need Is
Love," which is in 7/4 time, and "Here Comes The Sun," with the repeat-
ing 11/8, 4/4, and 7/8 passages in the chorus.

Ringo's proficiency in many different styles such as two-beat swing
("When I'm Sixty-Four"), ballads ("Something"), R&B ("Leave My
Kitten Alone" and "Taxman"), and country (the Rubber Soul album)
helped the Beatles to explore many musical directions with ease. His pre-
Beatle experience as a versatile and hard-working nightclub musician
served him well.

The idea that Ringo was a lucky Johnny-on-the-spot-with-a-showbiz-stage-name
is wrong. In fact, when Beatles producer George Martin expressed his unhappiness after the first session with
original drummer Pete Best, the decision was made by Paul, George, and John to hire the
person they considered to be the best drummer in Liverpool—Ringo Starr. His personality was a bonus.

The rumors that Ringo did not play on many of the Beatle songs
because he was not good enough are false. In fact, according to
Mark Lewisohn's The Beatles: Recording Sessions [Harmony,
1988], Ringo played on every Beatles recording that include drums
except for the following: "Back In The USSR" and "Dear Prudence," on
which Paul played drums due to Ringo temporarily quitting the band,
"The Ballad Of John And Yoko," again featuring Paul on drums
because Ringo was off making a movie, and a 1962 release of "Love Me
Do" featuring session drummer Andy White.

When the Beatles broke up and were trying to get away from each
other, John Lennon chose Ringo to play drums on his first solo
record. As John said in his famous Rolling Stone interview, "If I get
a thing going, Ringo knows where to go—just like that." A great song-
writer could ask no more of a drummer—except maybe to smile and bob
his head.

John Bryant is a session drummer and producer in Dallas, Texas. He
has recorded and toured with Ray Charles, the Paul Winter Consort,
and the University of North Texas One O'Clock Lab Band, and is cur-
rently a member of the D'Drum percussion ensemble. Bryant started
playing drums after seeing Ringo Starr on The Ed Sullivan Show in
1964. In 1976, he played a rehearsal with Paul McCartney & Wings
when regular drummer Joe English became ill.

[GRUNTERSDAD]

Exactly..............so there all you bashers and doubters.

[wy yung]

OK, I might be doing a bad thing by opening the Ringo debate, but here goes because it makes for good discussion. Do you think Ringo was all he was hyped up to be, drumming-wise. If he was an adequate drummer, then he was the perfect definition of an adequate drummer. He always kept basic beats, tasteful fills, and even sang once!

Personally, I think he is a good drummer for his time, when drummers just gave a nice groove and then some, and that he deserves credit not only for that but also for inspiring literally millions of people to take up the drum sticks. Not only a good sticksman, but also really influential.

Your two cents???

http://www.drummerworld.com/drummers/Ringo_Starr.html


I think the answer to this question lies in the # of units sold.

I don't understand the comment "for his time". Let's roll some names off the tongue from that time.

Shelly Manne
Buddy Rich
Earl Palmer
Elvin Jones
Jack DeJohnette
Tony Williams

And the list goes on and on. There were many great drummers during that time.

[Bernhard]

I think the answer to this question lies in the # of units sold.

I don't understand the comment "for his time". Let's roll some names off the tongue from that time.

Shelly Manne
Buddy Rich
Earl Palmer
Elvin Jones
Jack DeJohnette
Tony Williams

And the list goes on and on. There were many great drummers during that time.

He probably meant "that time" in the Rock-Field. There the Drummers like Earl Palmer or Hal Blaine or Buddy Harman were very back in the shadow of the singers - and not known. Only the Beatles brought the musicians into the frontrow.

On the other side in Jazz there were of course the great drummers very known as mentioned above...

Bernhard

[wy yung]

He probably meant "that time" in the Rock-Field. There the Drummers like Earl Palmer or Hal Blaine or Buddy Harman were very back in the shadow of the singers - and not known. Only the Beatles brought the musicians into the frontrow.

On the other side in Jazz there were of course the great drummers very known as mentioned above...

Bernhard

Oh right. That helps. Thanks.

[RICHARD STEPP]

I HAVE THE EXACT SET OF 1964 MARINE PEARL LUDWIG DRUMS AS RINGO PLAYED ,I AM MISSING THE FRONT HOOP AND HARDWARE , ALSO THE ORIGIONAL SNARE DRUM , ANYONE KNOW WHERE I COULD FIND THESE

[Mook]

2 things - firstly - I'm a huge Ringo fan & am not happy to hear people criticising him, although I usually find they're non-drummers who're simply perpetrating the myth. His playing on many songs is beautifully executed & I've never heard anyone really do those tympani style fills which he really made his own. 'Come Together', 'She Said, She Said', 'Dear Prudence' & the entire closing medley on Abbey Road are amongst my personal highlights.

However, one song which I fail to believe he played on was 'I Feel Fine' - I've seen him doing it live on the anthology DVD & he plays a far easier pattern on the ride - although many drummers change the parts they play in a live situation - it just doesnt feel the same. If Martin ever did get another drummer in for a song (other than Paul) - then this is it in my opinion...

[Ruok]

'Dear Prudence'

In the article Nutha Jason posted, it claims it was Paul on drums on "Dear Prudence." Is there any documentation proving this information? I tend to think it is Paul because I think the beat lags in spots and the hi-hat sounds a bit stiff, which Ringo usually doesn't sound like. The tom fills in the end do sound like Ringo though. Don't be upset with me if it is actually Ringo. I just think Ringo would have played the drums better than that recording shows, in my humble opinion.

[Mook]

I could be wrong about Dear Prudence, it sounds like Ringo to me - although I've never checked it out.

[onemat]

Just as a bit of added material, here is an article my friends dad wrote on ringo and bernard purdie. I found it very interesting. http://www.jimvallance.com/03-projects-folder/purdie-project-folder/pg-purdie.html

Purdie is full of himself and full of crap, PERIOD. It never happened.

[Bernhard]

Bernard Purdie is a great drummer and not full of crap. PERIOD

Bernhard

[Laurent]

Purdie is indeed a great drummer but he is full of himself. I met him a couple of times and he did not come across as the friendliest guy on earth. Sounded rather arrogant to me. Unlike Steve Gadd who is a true gentleman.

I refrained from commenting on Ringo because I am really wondering what people can hear in his playing. I have never ever heard anything in his playing that justifies all the hype around him. Had he not been in The Beatles no one would have listented to him the way they do now and he probably would not even be mentioned on this board. All this raving about his feel and the beautiful simple way he plays just goes beyond my head.

He was one member of the most influential band ever. But strictly speaking as a drummer I hear nothing amazing in his playing, not his feel, not his style and defintively not his technique.

I am not a fan of The Beatles at all but I fully respect and admire their unique contribution to popular music. I acknowledge that they are icons and trend setters. Their music do not move me at all but that's my problem.

I am sure he influenced a lot of drummers and encouraged them to pick up a pair of sticks. But so did Peter Criss who even though he's not an amazing player is still technically much more skilled than Ringo.

My point is not to slam Ringo. Not at all. I just think that he is only highly regarded as a drummer because of him being a Beatle and not for his drumming. That his legendary status is blinding people about his actual abilities.

[centralzeke]

I'm with Laurent. To me, Ringo Starr was an average drummer who played for the songs, a team player. Like (gulp) Charlie Watts.

[Bernhard]

No!

Here again the points:

The idea that Ringo was a lucky Johnny-on-the-spot-with-a-showbiz-stage-name is wrong. In fact, when Beatle producer George Martin expressed his unhappiness after the first session with original drummer Pete Best, the decision was made by Paul, George, and John to hire who they considered to be the best drummer in Liverpool - Ringo Starr. His personality was a bonus.


Ringo was the first true rock drummer to be seen on TV. All the Rock & Roll drummers featured with Elvis, Bill Haley, Little Richard, Fats Domino and Jerry Lee Lewis were mostly R&B drummers that were making the transition from a swing drumming style of the 40's and 50's toward the louder and more "rocking" sound that is associated with "I Want To Hold Your Hand". They were dressed in tuxedos and suits and held the drumsticks in the "traditional" manner of military, orchestra, and jazz drummers. Ringo showed the world that power was needed to put the emphasis on the "rock" in Rock & Roll music, so he gripped both sticks like hammers and proceeded to build a foundation for rock music.

Ringo changed the way drummers hold their sticks by making popular the "matched" grip of holding drumsticks. Nearly all drummers in the Western World prior to Ringo held their sticks in what is termed the "traditional" grip, with the left hand stick held like a chopstick. This grip was originally developed by military drummers to accomodate the angle of the drum when strapped over the shoulder. Ringo's grip changes the odd left hand to match the right hand, so that both sticks are held like a flyswatter. Rock drummers along with marching band and orchestral percussionists now mostly play with a "matched" grip, and drum companies have developed straps and accessories to accomodate them.

Ringo started a trend of placing drummers on high risers so that they would be as visible as the other musicians. When Ringo appeared on the Ed Sullivan Show in 1964, he immediately caught the attention of thousands of "drummers to be" by towering over the other three Beatles. Elvis's drummer was looking at a collection of backs.

These same "wannabe" drummers also noticed that Ringo was playing Ludwig drums and they immediately went out and bought thousands of these drumsets, thus establishing Ludwig as the definitive name in Rock & Roll drums at that time.

Ringo changed the sound of recorded drums. About the time of Rubber Soul (released Dec. 6,1965), the sound of the drumset started to become more distinct. Along with help from the engineers at Abbey Road studios, Ringo popularized a new sound for the drums by tuning them lower, deadening the tonal ring with muffling materials, and making them sound "closer" by putting a microphone on each drum.

Ringo has nearly perfect tempo. This allowed the Beatles to record a song 50 or 60 times, and then be able to edit together different parts of numerous takes of the same song for the best possible version. Today an electronic metronome is used for the same purpose, but the Beatles had to depend on Ringo to keep the tempo consistant throughout the dozens of takes of the songs that you know and love so well. Had he not had this ability, the Beatles recordings would sound completely different today.

Ringo's "feel" for the beat serves as a standard for pop-rock record producers and drummers alike. It is relaxed, but never dragging. Solid, yet always breathing. And yes, there is a great amount of musical taste in his decisions of what to play and when to play it. In most recording sessions, the drummer's performance acts as a barometer for the rest of the musicians. The stylistic direction, dynamics, and emotions are filtered through the drummer. He is the catcher to whom the pitcher/songwriter is throwing. If the drumming doesn't feel good, the performance of any additional musicians is doomed from the start. The Beatles rarely if ever had this problem with Ringo.

Ringo hated drum solos, which should win points with quite a few people. He only took one solo while with the Beatles. His eight measure solo appears during "The End" on the "B" side of Abbey Road. Some might say that it is not a great display of technical virtuosity, but they would be at least partially mistaken. You can set an electronic metronome to a perfect 126 beats per minute, then play it along with Ringo's solo and the two will stay exactly together.

Ringo's ability to play odd time signatures helped to push popular songwriting into uncharted areas. Two examples are "All you Need is Love" in 7/4 time, and "Here Comes the Sun" with repeating 11/8, 4/4, and 7/8 passages in the chorus.

Ringo's proficiency in many different styles such as two beat swing ("When I'm Sixty-Four"), ballads ("Something"), R&B ("Leave My Kitten Alone" and "Taxman") and country (the Rubber Soul album) helped the Beatles to explore many musical directions with ease. His pre-Beatle experience as a versatile and hard working nightclub musician served him well.

The rumors that Ringo did not play on many of the Beatle songs because he was not good enough are also false. In fact, he played on every released Beatles recording (not including Anthology 1) that include drums except for the following: "Back In The USSR" and "Dear Prudence", on which Paul played drums due to Ringo temporarily quitting the band, "The Ballad of John and Yoko", again featuring Paul on drums because Ringo was off making a movie, and a 1962 release of "Love Me Do" featuring session drummer Andy White.

When the Beatles broke up and they were all trying to get away from each other, John Lennon chose Ringo to play drums on his first solo record. As John once said, "If I get a thing going Ringo knows where to go, just like that.." A great songwriter could ask no more of a drummer. Except maybe to smile and bob his head.

Courtesy Ray Bryant http://web2.airmail.net/gshultz/bryant.html

Never bash Ringo!

Bernhard

[Paul Quin]

Boy, this is a subject that stirs up some confusing positions. I think some of the confusion may be resolved by defining what a "good drummer" is. Those who love Ringo and those who bash him may just be coming from two different definitions of the same term. Can Ringo play the chops of Vinnie or Virgil or Marco? No - but that doesn't stop him from being a great drummer. Could Vinnie or Virgil or Marco have made the music of Lennon/McCartney/Harrison better? Well maybe to the very limited number of people (overrepresented on any drum forum) who listen to music principally to hear the double paradiddlediddle played between left hand and right foot while the right hand plays an ostinato in a different time signature, but to everyone else the answer is a resounding NO. To the overwhelming majority Ringo's contribution to the music was perfect - and I don't use that word lightly - and not a single one of the modern raved-about drummers could have done it better, with the possible exception of Gadd. And anyone that has read anything I have ever written on this forum knows how much respect I have for Gadd. The reason I say possibly Gadd, is that Gadd, in playing for the music, would not have overplayed and his parts may have ended up sounding much like Ringos (excuse the rank speculation).

In my way of thinking, the esteem that Ringo has because he inspired many people to pick up the drums is relevant to his position as a musical legend but not necessarily to his reputation as a musician. It is his playing that makes his reputation and that alone is enough to make him a legend. His parts are non-traditional, inventive, exact in terms of time and feel and most important MUSICAL!

Some of this criticism reminds me of the posts (of which there are many) that talk about how the poster could never play in a band which required mostly 2 and 4 on the snare because that would be boring. I disagree. Such an approach is never boring IF that is what is called for by the music and is what makes the music better. To be an effective drummer you have to be a slave to the overall musical production and you have to LOVE it. To work, you (and everyone else) has to believe that your playing has contributed to the musicality of the piece. If that means holding back from those great new chops you have been practising and playing with space and restraint then that is what you must do. IN fact, if you do love what you do, it will never cross your mind to bust that stuff out - because it will not fit.

That is why Ringo is great - he made the musical product, of maybe the best songwriters in the pop genre, better.

So - don't bash Ringo -

Paul

By the way - great article by Jim Vallance

[irish_steve]

Bernhard...

I think the jury is still out as to why Pete Best was replaced by Ringo. Another take on the story has it that "the boys" were jealous of all the attention Pete was getting from the ladies and Brian Epstein realized that to keep the ego's in check and from a marketing perspective that attention needed to be diverted where it rightly belonged...front and center, Lennon & McCartney.

No debating that Ringo was one of the best drummers on the scene at the time but was it merely coincidence that he was also a real goofy looking sort of fellow...certainly not the model type looks that Pete had at the time

Have you heard the version of "Love me do" featuring Pete Best on the Anthology album???

This was basically their demo. It speeds up, is unsteady, and he completely changes the feel of the song (for the worse) in the middle.

George Martin told them they were good enough (he wasn't THAT impressed at the time with the Beatles, "Love me do" is quite a bland song) but their drummer was not good enough.

Now maybe Pete was just nervous, and it was a tough break, but he had a big chance and he blew it. I saw him playing in Liverpool last year and he was no better than your average pub drummer.

[FunkTional Art]

Boy, this is a subject that stirs up some confusing positions. I think some of the confusion may be resolved by defining what a "good drummer" is. Those who love Ringo and those who bash him may just be coming from two different definitions of the same term. Can Ringo play the chops of Vinnie or Virgil or Marco? No - but that doesn't stop him from being a great drummer. Could Vinnie or Virgil or Marco have made the music of Lennon/McCartney/Harrison better? Well maybe to the very limited number of people (overrepresented on any drum forum) who listen to music principally to hear the double paradiddlediddle played between left hand and right foot while the right hand plays an ostinato in a different time signature, but to everyone else the answer is a resounding NO. To the overwhelming majority Ringo's contribution to the music was perfect - and I don't use that word lightly - and not a single one of the modern raved-about drummers could have done it better, with the possible exception of Gadd. And anyone that has read anything I have ever written on this forum knows how much respect I have for Gadd. The reason I say possibly Gadd, is that Gadd, in playing for the music, would not have overplayed and his parts may have ended up sounding much like Ringos (excuse the rank speculation).

In my way of thinking, the esteem that Ringo has because he inspired many people to pick up the drums is relevant to his position as a musical legend but not necessarily to his reputation as a musician. It is his playing that makes his reputation and that alone is enough to make him a legend. His parts are non-traditional, inventive, exact in terms of time and feel and most important MUSICAL!

Some of this criticism reminds me of the posts (of which there are many) that talk about how the poster could never play in a band which required mostly 2 and 4 on the snare because that would be boring. I disagree. Such an approach is never boring IF that is what is called for by the music and is what makes the music better. To be an effective drummer you have to be a slave to the overall musical production and you have to LOVE it. To work, you (and everyone else) has to believe that your playing has contributed to the musicality of the piece. If that means holding back from those great new chops you have been practising and playing with space and restraint then that is what you must do. IN fact, if you do love what you do, it will never cross your mind to bust that stuff out - because it will not fit.

That is why Ringo is great - he made the musical product, of maybe the best songwriters in the pop genre, better.

So - don't bash Ringo -

Paul

By the way - great article by Jim Vallance

RIGHT ON !!

Sometime these threads remind me of gossip column and yes I do realize that this forum is here so us drummers can express our ideas and thoughts but let's not lose perspective and stck to the facts and take heed because there are some very good points and some very bad ones made.

"RINGO STARR IS ONE OF THE MOST MUSICAL DRUMMERS I'VE EVER HEARD"

About 5 years ago I saw Gregg Bissonnette in clinic and his whole clinic was mainly based on the RINGO'S DRUM parts int he Beatles music and he broke down the drum parts for several songs and had recorded all the tracks with his band called the "Mustard Seeds" which is pretty much completely influenced by the "BEATLES". So imagine Gregg in clinic playing his heart out laying down all of these RINGO grooves with a full mix in the house PA in a 600 seat theatre. Need I say more;

Here's a link that I just found as i was writing this thread ...
http://www.greggbissonette.com/ringo.html

You know I'm not always in the mood to listen to Vinnie or Dave play some progressive jazz fuzoid music although thats cool too!!

Learn about the heart and spirit of the music to better understand the musicians who play it and learn some Beatle tunes and then comment on Ringo's drumming and musicianship and if you still feel he is average then you need help.

[Kal_Indy]

I started reading this thread, and I questioned whether or not I would be able to add any input into it. But I know one reason why I know Ringo was not only influential, but also innovative. Correct me if it's already been mentioned, but Ringo was essentially the first drummer to play stadium shows to huge audiences....but he did it all without hearing any of the music.

Everyone knows live sound back in the 1960's was not the best. That fact helped attribute the premature end of The Beatles in a live setting. The Beatles were playing bigger venues than anyone. They were playing lots of shows in lots of countries and in lots of cities and every show was pretty much the same. They couldn't hear themselves! Most of those live tracks we get hear today are from shows in which they were playing without hearing much of the other memebers or themselves. Ringo has been known to say that he couldn't play big tom fills because the sound would disappear and the group would fall apart. He had a lot of pressure on him to keep it together, and because of his good music sense, he kept it simple, and showed other drummers playing large venues in the following years how to do it.

I know I've had to play shows without monitors. It's not the end of the world, and it doesn't kill me to not have them. But it would kill me to do it when there are 35,000+ screaming teenage girls in the audience. That would be tough to hold down and keep your composure and not get too excited or flustered. Ringo did it. I don't know if I could.

[spartacus1989]

The thing about Ringo, is the fact he was part of a band that revolutionised modern music, if he happened to be 10 years younger and joined a band like T-rex in the 70's, he would be no-where near as known as he is now!

To be honest, I think of him as a Beatle, not a drummer!

[Deltadrummer]

[QUO

"RINGO STARR IS ONE OF THE MOST MUSICAL DRUMMERS I'VE EVER HEARD"
[/QUOTE]

I just came from giving a lesson on Ringo. I look at several charts of Beatles music and show my students why he was a great drummer, what he brought to rock/pop drumming and why everyone went wild when the Beatles played. Drummers were not doing what Ringo was doing back in '64. There was a reason why he was hired when The Fab came to the USA.

[tomgrosset]

Ringo is a very unique and extraordinary drummer.

I also wanted to point out that Ringo has never been able to play/practice the drums by himself. He only likes to play when he's around other musicians.

[TOMANO]

Would Billy Cobham or Ginger Baker have fit into the Beatles scheme better than Ringo? Of course not. Ringo was the perfect non-threatening musician who was counted on to compliment the stylized George Martin studio sound and who would not Wow! listeners with riffs that might diminish the other three's capabilities.



That reminds me of the time I saw Terry Bozzio playing with The Knack at the Chicago House of Blues. Very bizarre. A forced fit if ever there was one. "My Sharona" and "Good Girls Don't" into a twenty minute ostinato-driven, "out there" solo drum excursion.

By the way, Ringo rocked. His drumming is a solid part of The Beatles' music. God Bless Ringo!!!

TOMANO

[Deltadrummer]

Ringo is an extraordinary drummer, one of those natural talents.

If you take a song like "It Won't Be Long" and look at the drum part, you will see some interesting things.

1) It is a simple Mersey Beat, but
Ringo accents the upbeat of two giving it a nice syncopated feel. It also requires some technique to accent that second note.
2) He phrases the drum beat in measures of two, which became a standard with funk drummers like Clyde Stubblefield. But most rock drummers at the time, even Hal Blaine, phrased their beats in one measure repeating intervals.
3) He integrates the flam into the fill he uses, and was one of the earliest, if not the earliest examples of rudiments in rock drumming. It takes some technique to execute that first fill. It is very musical, the way he simplifies the Mersey beat down into two bar phrases and then builds up to that fill. That's why the girls went wild.
4) He also got a fatter sound out of the drums.

In these four ways I see him as the precursor to guys like Bonham and Gadd.

[molly]

i am a bit surprised at some of these comments especially on a drummers forum.i never knew there was any "hype" about ringo.all i`ve ever seen is how crap he is,barely adequate,"knew a good thing when he saw it and rode it for all it was worth"...you guys should be ashamed of yourselves.if you don`t "get" ringo you don`t "get" drumming.
read bernhards first post again.ringo is a first rate musician and deserves a lot more respect than he seems to get.

[Deathmetalconga]

i am a bit surprised at some of these comments especially on a drummers forum.i never knew there was any "hype" about ringo.all i`ve ever seen is how crap he is,barely adequate,"knew a good thing when he saw it and rode it for all it was worth"...you guys should be ashamed of yourselves.if you don`t "get" ringo you don`t "get" drumming.
read bernhards first post again.ringo is a first rate musician and deserves a lot more respect than he seems to get.

Ringo is one of the most credited and admired drummers. I think even my cat cites him as an influence. He gets heaps of respect from drummers, as well he should.

Personally, I think his rhythms are basic and unimaginative. But he is undeniably the most influential drummer in history and inspired millions to take up drumming. For that, he is very noteworthy.

Google the phrase "the ringo starr of" for some interesting reading. While drummers universally hold Ringo in high esteem and acknowledge his cotributions, general pop culture sees him quite differently.

[onemat]

Any doubts about Ringo's drumming, go listen to "I Feel Fine". Try to duplicate what he's doing on that latin beat, especially the right hand pattern on the bell while keeping the rest together, at that tempo. Listen to "I Am Walrus"..simple but amazingly tasteful fills and groove playing. I could sit here and think of my favorite Ringo tracks all day.
Listen to him on the recent CD Ringorama..he still has it.

[Paul_Klein]

Ringo is one of the most credited and admired drummers.
Google the phrase "the ringo starr of" for some interesting reading. While drummers universally hold Ringo in high esteem and acknowledge his cotributions, general pop culture sees him quite differently.

"North Korea is the Ringo Starr of the Axis of Evil"

What?? Worst analogy ever.

As for the Ringo, I proudly state him as my first and main drumming influence.

[drumbent]

The entire Beatles Anthology is posted to YouTube (in ten min. segments). There are some great clips or Ringo's live playing, incl. him singing and playing one of my admittedly least-fave tunes "Act Naturally". His tempo is rock-solid, and that hi-hat shuffle is relentless! It starts at the 4.12 mark:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MHtYE3hSHWk

[Pat Petrillo]

"North Korea is the Ringo Starr of the Axis of Evil"

What?? Worst analogy ever.

As for the Ringo, I proudly state him as my first and main drumming influence.

Me, too !

Many Ringo gems include:

"She Said"
"I am the Walrus"
"In My Life"
"It's all too much"

Just so many to name...

[tsimp2]

Ringo Starr ........A true drum god!

[volvoguy]

Ringo was a *drummer*.

His playing doesn't seem like much to the kiddies who go to Guitar Center only to regurgitate their favorite "moves" on the drums.

Until you can truly appreciate his playing, you really can't call yourself a drummer.

-Ryan

[Vinnysimmo]

But an entire 3 generations of music lovers around the world danced to his beats and sung his music.

Please ask yourself why.

Couldn't have said it better myself.

[Tom Sawyer]

I remember jamming with the Beatles albums when I was a kid, and telling myself, "One day I wanna play like Ringo"...

[gmrakich]

Drummers who are musicians get Ringo and love him.
Drummers who are just drummers don't.
With Ringo's drumming there is something going on at a whole other level that some will never be able to see. Really feel sorry for them...they are missing what drumming is all about. It can be so much more than snare on two and four.

[KLittle123]

Rather a good episode of the wonder years

There's a beatle reference at the beginning and the end...

http://youtube.com/watch?v=W2uqtvfeMZY&feature=related

[Joecool1010]

RINGO STARR = #1 REASON WHY I GOT INTO DRUMMING

[Pollyanna]

...strictly speaking as a drummer I hear nothing amazing in his playing, not his feel, not his style and defintively not his technique.

True Laurent. It was mostly his composition - what he chose to play and what he chose to leave out - that was special.

[aydee]

.... what he chose to leave out - that was special.


,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,or couldn't play- and that was special.

Its not a musical crime to NOT be a technical monster. You can still say beautiful things through your instrument without having tons of chops. Which he did.

I love Ringo & Ringo was very tasteful and a huge part of the Beatles sound, but lets call and spade a spade and not endow him with qualities he didn't have.

[Ian Williams]

Ringo (Starr) did the job - and He did it dead right. Who can play that awesome "slush" hi-hat stuff, as the way He does. It's splendid, maybe a bit sloppy but fitted.

Best Regards,

[Bernhard]

Originally Posted by Laurent
...strictly speaking as a drummer I hear nothing amazing in his playing, not his feel, not his style and defintively not his technique.

Well, you want it:
So YOU're not a drummer nor a musician

Bernhard

[Meat the beat]

Isn't he the voice of "Thomas the tank engine"???

[Ian Williams]

Well, if that is the case, neither of us are drummers nor musicians including (Ian Paice, Bill Ward, Carmine Appice, Nicko Mcbrain...and so on) who have respect for Ringo Starr and his playing.

So, believe it or not the only true drummer is Monsieur Laurent! 1 out of 1,000,000+

[Pollyanna]

I can understand why people wonder what the hype is about Ringo, but I think he is an inspiration. He showed us how to help make music sound great without having chops like Steve Gadd or Bill Bruford.

There are drummers who inspire us to emulate them, drummers whose standards we might aspire to, and drummers so talented all you can do is savour their work. Ringo is in the former group. Even though some of his parts are very simple and he has the odd clunky moment, his imaginative drumming arrangements are great food for thought when you feel locked into a standard frug beat and looking for ways to enliven a number.

[Skulmoski]

I guess Ringo gets a lot of credit for being a drummer at that time. He certainly doesn't hold a candle up against many of the later great drummers that came after him (many of whom admit Ringo was a big influence)

Lets face it, Ringo IS a rock 'n roll star, and we can't take that away from him.

I like Charlie Watts better, of all the bashed beloved Bernhard drummers on here. But Charlie doesn't have the rockstar persona that Ringo has. Not even the name!!

stu

Yea, I agree with you. Charlie is uber cool! He might not be the best dummer in the world, but he is solid. My friend was in Muscat (Oman) last month at the Intercontintental Hotel for lunch and Charlie was at the table beside him.

That said, Ringo holds a special place in the hearts of drummers who grew up with the Fab Four. Peace and Love Ringo!

GJS

GJS

[Pollyanna]

I prefer Ringo's work to Charlie's, but maybe that's just because he had more scope with The Beatles to try more varied approaches, which I enjoy. I love the way he develops distinctive little motifs for the songs.

My fave work of Charlie's is Can't You Hear Me Knocking. My fave Ringo numbers are the usual suspects - A Day in the Life, Come Together and Let It Be that really show off his instinct for working out pleasing and distinctive ways of supporting songs.

He seemed to like do odd things in the verses and then move to a more standard beat in the choruses. He tended to occupy a pretty low place in the mix, often lower than the tambourine, so the band as a whole would carry the beat rather than being built around the drums, which freed him up to play around. You can't do some of the things he did during verses if you're up in the mix without creating clutter (e.g. Hey Jude).

[Pachikara-Tharakan]

He was one member of the most influential band ever. But strictly speaking as a drummer I hear nothing amazing in his playing, not his feel, not his style and defintively not his technique.


My point is not to slam Ringo. Not at all. I just think that he is only highly regarded as a drummer because of him being a Beatle and not for his drumming. That his legendary status is blinding people about his actual abilities.

same opinion here, well, I have the same opinion about Charley Watts as well.
They all happened to be in famous bands. Their playing is so simple, anyone can copy.
There is Keith Moon at one end and Charley and Ringo at the other end. Everyone comes in between. I am a fan of Keith Moon and Charley Watts.

[larryace]

Ringo...is much better than given credit for. I'm not referring to his technique, I'm referring to his musical sense. He's miles ahead of the pack in that sense. He is a completely egoless drummer. He is the poster drummer for the "less is more" school of thought. It's all about what he doesn't play that sets him apart. I can see how it's easy to play Monday morning quarterback and pick him apart, but he has a way of impacting things invisibly. He's so effective and most don't even realize it. Therein lies his genius. It's like getting knocked out without any impact. He knows that a whisper can deliver the message more effectively than shouting. If anyone thinks he is just so-so....I contend that it's possible that there is an unawareness of the level that he is operating on.
And the great thing he proved is you don't have to be a Vinnie or a Buddy to be influential and effective. My hat goes off to him for his musical contributions.

[TFITTING942]

Ringo is one of those rare drummers who is recognized outside of his band. People know the name Ringo. Part of that is due to to PR machine that was behind the Beatles but a bigger part was due to the style and quality of his drumming skills. In the song Get Back, He could have simply played on the 2 and 4 and it would have worked but he did'nt, and that's what made him the perfect fit for them. For some reason people don't like to give credit for his skill and I don't feel sad for Ringo, I feel sad for those people.

[waltondrummer]

Ringo...is much better than given credit for. I'm not referring to his technique, I'm referring to his musical sense. He's miles ahead of the pack in that sense. He is a completely egoless drummer. He is the poster drummer for the "less is more" school of thought. It's all about what he doesn't play that sets him apart. I can see how it's easy to play Monday morning quarterback and pick him apart, but he has a way of impacting things invisibly. He's so effective and most don't even realize it. Therein lies his genius. It's like getting knocked out without any impact. He knows that a whisper can deliver the message more effectively than shouting. If anyone thinks he is just so-so....I contend that it's possible that there is an unawareness of the level that he is operating on.
And the great thing he proved is you don't have to be a Vinnie or a Buddy to be influential and effective. My hat goes off to him for his musical contributions.

AMEN! I could not have said it better.

[Pollyanna]

Yes, he had a wonderful instinct for thinking up drum accompaniment that sounded cool and distinctive. Either that or George Martin and/or the songwriters came up with great drum lines and Ringo was relaxed enough to just go with that. Maybe both.

He never used to practice and his chops were largely honed through an arduous gigging schedule in Germany, so he obviously had a good ear for what sounds pleasing.

There is something to be said for not practising because then you don't think like a drummer and only think about the song sounds. Trouble is, if you don't gig and record a lot like he did, you'll get rusty and clumsy. So, as someone who doesn't play for a living, I find the challenge is to throw my drummerly thoughts of the practice room out the window when I play with the band so I hear the music more symphonically, like a layperson.

[larryace]

I remember reading a quote from George Martin where he was saying how creative Ringo was in the studio. It gave me the impression that Ringo made up his parts, rather than being told what to play. I love his playing on "Something". Anyone who can do a backbeat without hi hats or cymbals....that takes security!

[donv]

Next time you hear a drummer trash Ringo ask them to play Get Back. Don't need drums for that. 99 out of 100 that trash him accent it all wrong. It's simple drumming, but it's not easy drumming.

Ringo envy!

[FM11215]

Ringo Starr is a great teacher: by listening to him you can learn that one of the most important things in music is to shut up. Like you said, he is an egoless drummer and knows exactly what not to play. If anyone tries to bash it, I just simply ask: Why are Beatles song perfect? Because he never messed up.

Oh, and if you're aware that today there is a music Style called Drum and Bass, check out Ringo's part in Revolver track "Tomorrow Never Knows".

Do you want unique and kinda "weird" grooves? Check "Ticket to ride" "I feel fine" or "Penny Lane".

Ringo rules!

[larryace]

Plus, and correct me if I'm wrong, he's a lefty that plays righty He starts his fills with the opposite hand a righty would, just another nuance of his sound.
He really is a misunderstood man (by the masses).

[Cozmo]

I had the good fortune of auditioning for, and being invited to join, a Beatles Tribute band, complete with wigs and suits. While I ultimately decided to go with another band that I was also auditioning for, I was retained as a fill-in Ringo, should theirs be unavailable. I did play a couple of shows with them, and it was awesome.

But in preparing for the shows, I listened to almost nothing else besides Beatles tracks, and I watched all the footage I could get my hands on of Ringo playing. His style is so unique, and so great to watch. You watch the Washington Coluseum show, and you can tell that he's having a blast. And MAN does he rock. I just love watching them barrel through "I Saw Her Standing There." I've always loved Ringo, and have always considered him my primary influence as a drummer, but the time I spent studying his style and form made me love him that much more.

To borrow the Dylan phrase, "Nobody does Ringo like Ringo."

Some songs that ARE Ringo (to me, anyway):
"No Reply"
"Get Back"
"Tomorrow Never Knows"
"Drive My Car"
"All I've Gotta Do"
"A Day In The Life"

[PQleyR]

For me, this (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0k-rs0lLHOg) is one of the best illustrations of his abilities as a drummer.

[Cozmo]

For me, this (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0k-rs0lLHOg) is one of the best illustrations of his abilities as a drummer.

I LOVE the sound he gets out of his kit. The drums have this awesomely deep reverb, and his cymbal sound knocks me sideways...the deep "sploooooshhhhh" that he gets is a sound that I've been searching for for years. When I played with the tribute band I used two 20" ride cymbals instead of a ride and a crash, because the sound was so much better.

This is a great song, PQleyR. Thanks for posting.

[PQleyR]

You're welcome! I think someone else on here posted it once, that's how I found it.

Isn't he the voice of "Thomas the tank engine"???

Of the first series, yes! And he's by far the best person they've had to do it!
I wonder how many other people on here are familiar with that aspect of his work?

[T-Dog]

I love Ringo's playing, and I find him one of the best drummers ever. He's also a extremely creative groove maker!

[Pollyanna]

PQ, I'll add to the chorus - great link (thanks!) and love that brash and open sound and feel. That's fair dinkum rock'n'roll drumming.

[larryace]

Really, if you think about it, (if I have my facts straight), he isn't big on practicing by himself, he isn't a real technique guy on the par with the likes of the Vinnies and Virgils and such, (although his early sloshy hi hat sound is a bit of a trademark) yet he is more of a household name on par with Rich and Krupa, plus I'm guessing he's been on more hit records than most, and the worlds best musicians love playing with him because he plays thoughtfully and lets them grab all the glory. He took the path that the majority of people on this board aren't interested in, meaning just learning enough drums to get the job done. (I'm not trivializing his playing I think he's brilliant in a minimalistic way) If you think I'm knocking him, I'm not. To the contrary, I'm thinking he understands something most other drummers in the world missed. He is proof that there are many paths to the waterfall, and you gotta give the guy a ton of credit. My hat goes off to him.

Hey Bernhard, do I get a free DrummerWorld T-shirt for this thread?

Are there Drummerworld T-shirts? There should be. Fodder for another thread. And a possible source of income eh Bernhard?

[Deltadrummer]

Yeah, I got the call from Phil Collins to fill in for Chester on a small leg of the tour one year, and I was like no way man, I don't play that kind of music . . . I was going to do the Madonna tour but that was beneath me . . . It was between me and Abe for the drum throne on the McCartney tour but I was like, I'm not playin' that crap.

I met Sir Paul at Carnegie Hall several years back and I am still kicking myself for not giving him a card. He may have laughed in my face, he may have discarded it or even not accepted it; but I should have offered him my card. I mean just having offered Sir Paul your card is something to write in your diary.

[aydee]

I'm thinking he understands something most other drummers in the world missed.

...



Now there is something..

Discussing Ringo is always such a.... !!!!........... nnngmphffff...

All posts are full of political correctness for fear of being sacrilegious, or an exercise in expressing extremes.

'Drum God' or 'Bashworthy', for having.. well sloshy hi- hats at a time when crisp & clean was vogue.... headed surely into the inevitable cess pit of chops v/s feel.

Bernhard's sensitivity on the issue has never been quite explained on this forum, other than the fact that we dont bash any drummers around here, but I suspect his admiration for the man comes from the same place as mine.

I frankly & very simply think Ringo's orchestrations of the drum parts were remarkably original and unique. They fit the larger musical picture like Marilyn Monroe's hand in a Louis Vuitton leather glove.

The definition of a leading creative force in drumming is complete, thank you very much. QED

To me its always been pointless to debate his chops ( or the lack of ) versus Purdie's or Lang's or Weckl's or Elvin's because that had absolutely nothing to do with his music or his context. .

Can one really compare Michaelangelo or the realistic perfection of Renaissance Art to Picasso's Modernism & relatively cruder and interpretational abstractions..?

Picasso would have no chops by that argument. ( well, discount his Blue period )

Who was smarter.. I dont know.. but both were awesome.


...


PS- He 'discarded the card, Ken?.. LOL, you made my day

[danduffy1964]

His fills are all about 'feel'. Ringo's a little tricky.. predictable in other areas. ..His timing is impeccable ! Makes you appreciate the 4 pc drumkit ! When you strip away everything ,,its all about groove & timing..Thats Ringo .. He's a clock !

[Ian Williams]

Ringo Starr is a clever guy.....simple as that.

It would be interesting to have Ringo's comments, on the Feel and Technique issue?

[aydee]

Ringo Starr is a clever guy.....simple as that.

It would be interesting to have Ringo's comments, on the Feel and Technique issue?

Ian, my bro.. now that will be the nuclear bomb.

[Ian Williams]

Ian, my bro.. now that will be the nuclear bomb.

You are awesome, my friend. Have a nice day! :-)

[Pollyanna]

Some reasons I love Ringo:


Let It Be
Come Together
A Day In The Life
Here Comes The Sun
Getting Better All the Time
Tomorrow Never Knows
Instant Amnesia (off Ringorama).


The smartest rock drummer? Hmm, I'd say Bill Bruford. Like Ringo he made a good living playing exactly what he wanted. So many great tracks - And You and I, Larks Tongues Pt 1, Starless, One More Red Nightmare, Frame By Frame, Thela Hun Ginjeet ... no jingles for that little black duck! The closest he came to that was the Yes reunion concerts :)

[thelimpingtoad]

Shiningtime Station!

Personally there are only a few beatles tracks that I actually like the drums on. I never cared much for his playing..
the OP has a good point that he is a huge success. So yeah, a technical drummer he is not, but i do think he did have a certain musical quality that can't be ignored... but really when it comes down to it i think that he owes his success to the other beatles... he probably wouldn't have made it on his own. So that being the case i wouldn't say "Smartest"... i'd say "Luckiest".
But that's just my opininon.

OffTopic Comment: Bill Bruford... AWESOME!

[larryace]

yea I don't literally mean smartest, but for maximum return on minimal investment, I can't think of anyone who can top him.

[Average]

Peace and Love! Peace and Love!!!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=olhLlj_hD4I

[GRUNTERSDAD]

He was hired, as a drummer, to join a band, to keep the beat. He did that very well.

[Bernhard]

i love you all.

Ringo is great.

Don't bash Ringo.

I go to the coast now - not sure if i come back today....

Bernhard

[keep it simple]

Even though I was brought up in Liverpool, I was never a fan of his playing, although I did like his narration of the childrens television series "Thomas the tank engine". Smartest, I'm not so sure there is such a thing but he certainly was smart enough to realise the audience didn't care about his technique. They just got off on the whole sound and performance. Now that is a lesson in smartness that many drummers would be wise to take on board!

Smartest? I'd say probably not. Smart? Oh yes.

[Pollyanna]

yea I don't literally mean smartest, but for maximum return on minimal investment, I can't think of anyone who can top him.

How about Moony? Unless you count driving Rolls Royces into swimming pools as an "investment" :) Um, not sure he was the brightest crayon in the box, though.

Ah, back in the old days you were allowed a little looseness if you could move people.

[GRUNTERSDAD]

KeepitSimple, kept it simple. He understands. Why do people have to make issues of non issues. Ringo didn't play in 1990 to 2010 progressive bands. He played in a 1960's rock band. His style and methods may well have been different in a diffferent era. Geeze get over it with Ringo for Gods sake.

[larryace]

The reason I brought him up is because here we are knocking ourselves out to learn polyrhythms and blazing fast singles, and every other darn thing, trying to get as much technique as we can, when it's not really necessary to create good feeling music.
He is a great example of working smart, not hard.
I realize that can be taken as a bash but it's not. I'm saying he gets what is really important. So everybody can now stop practicing ha ha.

[TonyAncheta]

He is a great example of working smart, not hard.
I realize that can be taken as a bash but it's not. I'm saying he gets what is really important. So everybody can now stop practicing ha ha.

Oh ... don't do that, it takes a well practiced set of limbs to get that 'simple' stuff spot on. Ringo may have lacked the flair that we have come to expect from rock drummers - but his sense of time pretty much defines what drummers are supposed to be ... solid.

[Bruce M. Thomson]

What is really reprehensible when the question of Ringo's drumming dexterity rears its ugly head is that Paul, John and George never did the right thing when they unceremoniously dumped Pete Best from the group in the first place.

Considering that the type of live drumming required by Rock & Roll percussionist in the early 1960's was not what it was by the late 1960's, Best was as good as, or better than, Ringo. John, Paul and George never complained about Best's competency for the year he played in clubs with them. In fact, it seems Best was the real draw for the chics who came to see these Liverpudlians.

It is obvious that when the Beatles were about to turn the corner, they had pangs of insecurity and even resentment about their current drummer, who was better looking and who might upstage their lyrics and melodies.

Would Billy Cobham or Ginger Baker have fit into the Beatles scheme better than Ringo? Of course not. Ringo was the perfect non-threatening musician who was counted on to compliment the stylized George Martin studio sound and who would not Wow! listeners with riffs that might diminish the other three's capabilities.

But it is interesting when the group (John, Paul, George) pursued individual careers, they all employed drummers whom they did not inhibit from a more productive and energetic rhythm than Ringo demonstrated on the Beatles 13 albums.

Had Ringo been Herman's Hermit's drummer would anyone know his name today? No. But Ringo was smart enough to know a good thing when he saw it (heard it?) and he rode the Beatles phenomenon for all it was worth.

I could NOT imagine The Beatles without Ringo, it is that simple. There is a symbiotic relationship that can not be denied. Really, I think it is illogical to start saying that one drummer is better than another. Maybe if you had 2 drummers having to play the same piece of music and then be judged you could say one was "more technical" or the other had "better feel" but you would still have 2 drummers. I'm not sure if that is a very good analogy but perhaps the gist is understood. Great points made Bernard and yourself, it definitely leans to my way of thinking.

[GRUNTERSDAD]

Pete didn't turn out to be in GQ himself.
and here is a sound byte from George martin on his abilities.

http://www.beatlesagain.com/bsounds/gm1.mp3

[FueledbyMoon]

Ringo had a hard time doing complex rolls and other breakthrough drumming parts because he was a Left handed Drummer playing a Right handed drum kit. Makes sense to me why he didn't really branch from a basic rock beat!

It's hard for a Right handed guy playing a Left Handed guitar and trying to be like Hendrix!

[Bernhard]

Playing a right hand set as a left handed drummer is the best thing, that can happen.

[con struct]

I just had a thought. Ringo Starr was already a professional drummer when he joined the Beatles, so I wonder if there are any recordings of his playing before he became a Beatle. I guess I could Google it. That would be interesting to hear.

I love Ringo's drumming. There's a real generosity of spirit in his playing, I very much get the feeling that he loved those songs, so much so that he took great care not to step all over them. He loved those songs, well, who wouldn't, but he played just perfectly on those songs, just perfectly, especially when you consider that they did many takes of the same tune. He kept it going. RIngo had a great sense of time and consistancy.

Also, I think he had a very personal sound on the drums, a sort of loping, happy way of playing, that's the only way I can think of to describe it.

I'm a fan.

[larryace]

I know he used to be in a band called Rory Storm and the Hurricanes. I YouTubed it and got results. It's def him.

[GRUNTERSDAD]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_rtC9riuBRc

Indeed it is..........

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rYAL-eBfBno&feature=related

On this one you can see Ringos stylish side to side HiHat stroke.

[con struct]

Definitely. Looking at those it's weird to think where he ended up. I think the Beatles brought out the artist in him, maybe. I think they brought out the artist in each other. Whatever, he sure rose to the occasion.

Earlier I was listening to "I Want To Tell You." That's some great drumming, right on the money. I always liked the way Ringo played a shuffle.

And put yourself in Ringo's place when John Lennon brought in "Come Together." Could you have come up with a dead-hip drum part like that? It's a classic.

There are so many classic songs that he just absolutely nailed. What a great drummer.

Good old RIngo Starr! I love the guy.

[Pollyanna]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_rtC9riuBRc

Indeed it is..........

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rYAL-eBfBno&feature=related

On this one you can see Ringos stylish side to side HiHat stroke.

Love the live clip, GD. Great guitar sound. You can see Ringo shaking his head and, as you say, playing side to side.

Construct, agree about Come Together. I've wondered at times how he came up with that. Great drum composition.

[Thaard]

"Ringo sux lol!"

Anyway, me and the keyboardist in my band has always made fun of Ringo and saying that he's made a top secret drum-technique dvd. In this dvd the only thing he said(which was the top secret technique), was keeping 8ths on the bassdrum in fills.

On the other side, I've always like Beatles, even if some of the later stuff was pretty out there(Revolution nr 9 or what its called). I remember MCcartney saying that Ringo wasnt even the best drummer in the band? In an octopus´ garden isnt the best Beatles song, but many people seem to forget that good old Ringo was there and layed out the beats while MCcartney and Lennon was arguing about the music. He does a decent job too, and he isnt as bad as people say he is. He gets alot of flack for being to simple in comparison to MCcartneys bassplaying, but atleast it sounds good enough.

[Bernhard]

Don't bash Ringo

Bernhard

[Deltadrummer]

I just taught one of my 8 year olds Come Together. It took us about six weeks.

Take that RockBand . . . ®

I would like to get Ringo's take on the technical prowess vs. financial success thread.

[GRUNTERSDAD]

Ringo was good enough to dump Pete Best, and the Beatles had one of the best, if not the best, producers when they were together, and he had no problem with Ringo. He was from an era where keeping the beat was more important than flash and the number of tattoos one had. And he was civil enough to keep his shirt on the entire time.

[Thaard]

Wasnt the producer secretly in love with Paul MCcartney?

[larryace]

Thaard....

Bernhard is not kidding.
Brian Epstein, their manager early on, was in love w/ John Lennon.
I'm pretty sure he was hot for Paul too.
On this board, equate Ringo to someone you just don't put down, even jokingly.

Re: the Come Together part....You have to wonder if Ringo came up with that part himself, or if it was a result of George Martins producing skills.
(Hey Ringo, try losing the cymbals for this track, see what happens...)
Anybody know?

[Thaard]

Thaard....

Bernhard is not kidding.
Brian Epstein, their manager early on, was in love w/ John Lennon.
I'm pretty sure he was hot for Paul too.
On this board, equate Ringo to someone you just don't put down, even jokingly.

Re: the Come Together part....You have to wonder if Ringo came up with that part himself, or if it was a result of George Martins producing skills.
(Hey Ringo, try losing the cymbals for this track, see what happens...)
Anybody know?

Ok? Geez.. Didnt know it was that serious..

[Pollyanna]

I love Ringo's playing. As has been mentioned on the forum before, the composition of his drum parts is inspired and a lot of stuff he plays is harder than it sounds to get vibing the way he does.

Was it George Martin who came up with the parts? Maybe at times but I'm sure R came up with plenty himself because there are some fine drum parts on his solo stuff too. How about Instant Amnesia from his Ringorama album?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n-spAA9aLN0

Love it love it love it!

[larryace]

Ok? Geez.. Didnt know it was that serious..

You should even apologize, that's how serious it is. You don't want Bernhard taking his anger out on you and deleting forever your access to this fine forum

[curiousnomad]

If the Beatles had Keltner, Vinnie, Gadd, ANYBODY else they wouldn't have been the Beatles. Change Ringo- no Beatles.

They were great and he was 1/4 of the equation.

[GRUNTERSDAD]

I wouldn't suggest that George Martin wrote or suggested any drum parts or fills, but I'm saying that with the amount of time he put into their projects or albums, that if Ringo were not a skilled drummer, he would not have been around.

[Papajo]

Please listen to this...It speaks for itself:
http://www.box.net/shared/yyjz9occj1

[Deltadrummer]

Thanks for posting that. Ringo is too syncopated. He should just lay back and play on the two and four. I don't like it when drummers are syncopated and change around the beats too much. You can't dance to that. :P


Certainly a reason to love Ludwig three ply maples

[Pollyanna]

Damn straight, Ken. Why would he put that Dave Weckl drum track on Ringo's thread?

Seriously, thanks Papajo. That's a great find. It really highlights that weird and wonderful semi shuffle our man plays.

[Papajo]

Here's another classic example:
http://www.box.net/shared/jhne6g07dq

[PMcCMusic]

Hi Guys,
I'm late to the party but,....thought I'd chime in from a totally different perspective.

I've been a gtr player for over 30 years and made a living as a musician. Of course I always thought Lennon & Macca were genius' and truthfully as a gtr plyr never gave much thought to Ringo.
I recently started playing drums and have discovered how great he really is. As with any instrument,..most often, it's what you DON'T play that counts.

So,...This is where I voice an opinion and go down in flames......lol.... Through years of gigging with drummers,..... IMO,...there is nothing more aggravating than a drummer with chops!....I realize context is everything, so don't take that super literal, but.
Why any drummer would think that fills every 4 or 8, turning the beat around,..fancy hihat shit,...is cool in pop/rock stuff..is,..beyond me....
But you do,...I know you're out there guys,...LOL!!

There is nothing more annoying than trying to solo or sing with that shit in the way.
Trust me,..your band feels this way,..they just won't tell you because drummers are rarer than you think.
You always know when a drummer has chops,...they can't help it....lol

No coincidence,....Just about everytime I ask a drummer who his favorite player is.
It's always Vinnie and or Gadd,....they are wonderful players but for my taste,. I'd take Ringo over them anyday. IN A POP/ROCK CONTEXT....

Ringo NEVER overplayed and I think most drummers miss that concept. Was very creative as mentioned,...Get Back,..Come Together, Swinging his ass off on the ride in I Feel Fine. What?! do these tunes call for someone roaring around the kit with fills all over?
No!
As a writer,...I would never imagine those beats if I brought those songs into my band.
So,..I'll take a Ringo or Keltner on my tracks anyday. (I wish,..lol)
I also do progressive stuff,...and will go as far as Brectlein (spelling?),...I love him.
Play for the song, not for yourself

That's it cats!
Peace and Love

[GRUNTERSDAD]

As I'm sure others have said in the past, "You are a wise man."

[PMcCMusic]

As I'm sure others have said in the past, "You are a wise man."

LOL!!,....nah,..actually you're the first,..

thanks man.

best-
p

[bonzolead]

Ringo IMO has the total drum package.......technique,style & showmanship

How many of us have bobbed their head back & forth playing a fun drum part? you can thank Ringo for that

He was one of the first singing drummers

Like con struct posted would you have played "Come Together" like Ringo?me either
or come up with a solo like Ringo played on "Golden Slumbers"?I didn't. think so LOL

How many drummers do you know that have had successful solo careers in Rock?Don't. worry I'll wait

Joking aside Ringo is a total original and that's what set him apart from all the other drummers when the Beatles hired him & why he is still on the scene today.

Not only that but the Cat is cool you know you cool when you're hanging out with Smokey Robinson @ the Grammy's

Bonzolead

[44Ronin]

What would you think if I sang out of tune,
would you stand up and walk out on me? :)

[Pollyanna]

What would you think if I sang out of tune,
would you stand up and walk out on me? :)

Most likely, unless I felt sorry for you :)

Thanks for the Help From My Friends rhythm section link. It really gets you singin' away

How did you come across those little gems?

[44Ronin]

Most likely, unless I felt sorry for you :)

The original lyrics was something like this:

What would you think if I sang out of tune,
Would you stand up and throw tomatoes at me? :)




Thanks for the Help From My Friends rhythm section link. It really gets you singin' away

How did you come across those little gems?

The wonders of modern technology ! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6jTKiQIHyr8

[BIGpapaDrums]

Ringo the reason why many of our heroes playing the drums!!!
myself included: P

[Deathmetalconga]

Ringo the reason why many of our heroes playing the drums!!!
myself included: P

The Beatles and their producers made sure Ringo was tamped down, usually barely audible in the mix. I'm sure Ringo inspired many people, the the prominence of drums in modern music is a far cry from the style that Ringo is famous for.

[larryace]

So,...This is where I voice an opinion and go down in flames......lol.... Through years of gigging with drummers,..... IMO,...there is nothing more aggravating than a drummer with chops!....I realize context is everything, so don't take that super literal, but.
Why any drummer would think that fills every 4 or 8, turning the beat around,..fancy hihat shit,...is cool in pop/rock stuff..is,..beyond me....
But you do,...I know you're out there guys,...LOL!!

There is nothing more annoying than trying to solo or sing with that shit in the way.
Trust me,..your band feels this way,..they just won't tell you because drummers are rarer than you think.
You always know when a drummer has chops,...they can't help it....lol



Thank you for posting this. A very honest overview of what "non drummers" think. This needed to be said. Every drummer should take this to heart. I think it should be a sticky.
Once again thanks. You've totally crystalized this subject down to it's most basic truisms.

[jimmy5578]

Ringo brought those great songs that so many people love to life. Creativity, personality, humbleness..these words all come to mind when I think of Ringo. When you listen to these songs you're not thinking about who's playing drums, and in my opinion thats how it SHOULD be. Ringo's more than a good drummer he's a great MUSICIAN.

[Skitch]

Ringo brought those great songs that so many people love to life. Creativity, personality, humbleness..these words all come to mind when I think of Ringo. When you listen to these songs you're not thinking about who's playing drums, and in my opinion thats how it SHOULD be. Ringo's more than a good drummer he's a great MUSICIAN.

No....he is probably the most under-rated drummer of all time!


Mike

http://www.mikemccraw.com
http://www.dominoretroplate.com
http://www.patentcoachmike.com
http://www.youtube.com/drummermikemccraw
http://www.myspace.com/drummermikemccraw
http://www.facebook.com/mike.mccraw
http://www.linkedin.com/in/mikemccraw
http://twitter.com/mikemccraw

[Skitch]

Hi Guys,
I'm late to the party but,....thought I'd chime in from a totally different perspective.

I've been a gtr player for over 30 years and made a living as a musician. Of course I always thought Lennon & Macca were genius' and truthfully as a gtr plyr never gave much thought to Ringo.
I recently started playing drums and have discovered how great he really is. As with any instrument,..most often, it's what you DON'T play that counts.

So,...This is where I voice an opinion and go down in flames......lol.... Through years of gigging with drummers,..... IMO,...there is nothing more aggravating than a drummer with chops!....I realize context is everything, so don't take that super literal, but.
Why any drummer would think that fills every 4 or 8, turning the beat around,..fancy hihat shit,...is cool in pop/rock stuff..is,..beyond me....
But you do,...I know you're out there guys,...LOL!!

There is nothing more annoying than trying to solo or sing with that shit in the way.
Trust me,..your band feels this way,..they just won't tell you because drummers are rarer than you think.
You always know when a drummer has chops,...they can't help it....lol

No coincidence,....Just about everytime I ask a drummer who his favorite player is.
It's always Vinnie and or Gadd,....they are wonderful players but for my taste,. I'd take Ringo over them anyday. IN A POP/ROCK CONTEXT....

Ringo NEVER overplayed and I think most drummers miss that concept. Was very creative as mentioned,...Get Back,..Come Together, Swinging his ass off on the ride in I Feel Fine. What?! do these tunes call for someone roaring around the kit with fills all over?
No!
As a writer,...I would never imagine those beats if I brought those songs into my band.
So,..I'll take a Ringo or Keltner on my tracks anyday. (I wish,..lol)
I also do progressive stuff,...and will go as far as Brectlein (spelling?),...I love him.
Play for the song, not for yourself

That's it cats!
Peace and Love

Yes....there is quite a bit of turnig every song into a Gospel/Hip-Hop/R&B/Funk drum solo right now because many drummers want to show everyone what they can do or what they have been working on. It is the fad thing to do right - show off! And they tend to get fired for overplaying quite often! They get fired in the studio for overplaying! And it is because they don't understand that not everything is an R&B/Gospel/Hip-Hop/ Funk/Metal song!

Neither Gadd nor Vinnie would be so disrespectful of Ringo.....

Come Together is my favorite Beatles tune right now!

Mike

http://www.mikemccraw.com
http://www.dominoretroplate.com
http://www.patentcoachmike.com
http://www.youtube.com/drummermikemccraw
http://www.myspace.com/drummermikemccraw
http://www.facebook.com/mike.mccraw
http://www.linkedin.com/in/mikemccraw
http://twitter.com/mikemccraw

[madidus]

Another late-comer to this party. This is my second post, so it's appropriate that it's about the drummer who first peaked my interest in drumming and has had more influence on my drumming than any other:

Sometime between 8-10 yrs of age I started getting into the very early Beatles stuff. Then someone gave me 'Revolver' (mid 70s). Wow! Keep in mind that by this stage I only owned a best of the Shadows, Beach Boys and the first couple of Beatles albums. The track that is responsible for my fascination with drumming is "Tomorrow Never Knows". Not a difficult drum track, but I just couldn't get enough of the off-beat tom accents Ringo played. I got some sticks (not drum sticks, but shortened garden stakes) and practiced on pots and pans until I could get that right (much to the exasperation of my mother who patiently listened to the Beatles accompanied by an assortment of her cookware for hours on end). That's where it all started for me!

The other thing that we need to remember about Ringo is that he played in a band that was rewriting the rule book. There were so many things they did that noone else had done and they covered so much ground musically. Imagine the creativity, intuition and feel for music that was needed to develop drum parts for all of this?

One of the many songs (for me at least) that demonstrate Ringo's skill is Helter Skelter. Again, not a difficult drum track, but look at how he made his kit sound - especially the cymbals! Overdrive all the way, without peppering the music with drum fills and acrobatics. Amazing!

The other drummer who really influenced me is Brian Bennett (Shadows drummer for most of the 60s). No doubt my mother still cringes whenever she hears "Rise and fall of Flingel Bunt" - another song that got my pre-pubescent kettle & pan treatment. For an excellent example of Brian's ability to pay melodic drum parts, listen to "Slaughter on 10th Street". Great stuff!

[wy yung]

As with any instrument,..most often, it's what you DON'T play that counts.

Yes this is so true but try to tell some drummer who thinks his latest paradiddle variation should and needs to be on your latest pop song in order to make that song interesting. Many drummers fail to understand that most people do not really care about the drums.

Why any drummer would think that fills every 4 or 8, turning the beat around,..fancy hihat shit,...is cool in pop/rock stuff..is,..beyond me....
But you do,...I know you're out there guys,...LOL!!

Sadly, more than one might think. But it's cool because the ones who overplay and think music is not about music at all but about drumming, rarely work at a pro level. Leaving more gigs for the mature players.


There is nothing more annoying than trying to solo or sing with that shit in the way.
Trust me,..your band feels this way,..they just won't tell you because drummers are rarer than you think.
You always know when a drummer has chops,...they can't help it....lol

It is a nightmare! And it happens too often. The better drummers know their chops are not as important as the music. I like to use a local Sydney drummer who tries to never show the extent of his chops. If the music requires loads of technique fair enough. The Beatles music did not require fusion drumming, and existed before fusion.


Ringo NEVER overplayed and I think most drummers miss that concept.

This is a subject that has been coming up here recently.




Nice to read another musicians thoughts.

[Strangelove]

Thanks for posting that. Ringo is too syncopated. He should just lay back and play on the two and four. I don't like it when drummers are syncopated and change around the beats too much. You can't dance to that. :P


????? Syncopations cannot be danced to? Ever watch James Brown?

[Strangelove]

Was it George Martin who came up with the parts? Maybe at times but I'm sure R came up with plenty himself because there are some fine drum parts on his solo stuff too.

George Martin the producer? Where are you getting this information? I have read in Guitar Magazines that Paul used to track over some George Harrison lead tracks from original recording to what eventually ended up on vinyl (Paul was a control freak), but have never heard of anybody writing chops for Ringo. I love Ringo's composition on Come Together (and Abbey Road in general) and would really be disappointed if he did not write it.

[Spiney]

Hi I'm new here. I've been a fan of Ringo's and the Beatles since the 60's. Even though I was only 4 at the time I do remember their first Ed Sullivan appearance. Anyway, I got the complete set of re-mastered CD's for Christmas and have been reading everything I can on the hows and why's of the songs. I read that Ringo felt held back as far as rolls and fills because he was a left handed person "Forced" his words to play a right handed kit. I'm a left handed drummer. I'm completely lost on a right handed kit. I'm very left handed. To the point I can't play Rock Band unless I could rearrange the kit. When I sit in on a jam session I need to at least switch the snare, HH, and floor tom. So being as he was in the premier band of all time, why was he forced to play right handed? There is no such thing as a right handed or left handed drum set, it's all in the way you set them up. It's not like a guitar. I'm sure he could have had anything he wanted after they hit the big time.

When I was a regular at the local jam sessions I got the nick name lefty Dave because I appeared to be the only Left handed drummer in a sea of right handed drummers. Because of that I always got there first and set up my kit for the night.

So anyway, I'd like to hear feedback as to why Ringo didn't just set up his kit left handed?

Thanks, Dave Premier 5 piece acoustic kit, Alesis DM Pro electronic kit

[Pollyanna]

George Martin the producer? Where are you getting this information? I have read in Guitar Magazines that Paul used to track over some George Harrison lead tracks from original recording to what eventually ended up on vinyl (Paul was a control freak), but have never heard of anybody writing chops for Ringo. I love Ringo's composition on Come Together (and Abbey Road in general) and would really be disappointed if he did not write it.

The others suggested parts to Ringo regularly but it's not clear to what extent he followed the suggestions, to quote him:

When we first started, they basically went John and Paul's way because they were the writers and they would say, "This is the song," and I would play as creatively as I could. Sometimes I would have three people telling me how to do it. They were saying playing this like on that track. I'm saying, "For Christ's sake, there are two drummers there." They could never hear that, you know. You'd have to have four arms to do half the stuff they wanted me to do.

A quote from Paul:

We always gave Ringo direction on every single number. It was usually very controlled. Whoever had written the song, John for instance, would say, "I want this." Obviously, a lot of things came out of what Ringo was playing, but we would always control it.

Can't say how often "control" meant saying, "Yes, I like that". I agree, the drum parts on a number of songs on Abbey Road are great. Ringo always has me thinking "how did he think of that?" Things like Getting Better and Ticket to Ride etc etc

[A-customs]

Love Ringo.............. for all the tasty tracks,I always Enjoy when the guys im playing with want to do a Beatles tune.One song that for me is a real pain,cause the time is SOOOO pure Is Something,Georges tune...Never gave it much thought as it being HARD,till i played it....Ringo, WAS AND IS SOMETHING........

[Bernhard]

So anyway, I'd like to hear feedback as to why Ringo didn't just set up his kit left handed?



Lefthanders feel very comfortable at a "normal" Kit. Because the left hand is so much more important in drumming, everybody lefthander is very happy to be a lefty. They are forced from young age on to concentrate more on learning movements against the brain, so normally they are more "skilled" as normal people - see sports, where their percentage on top level is near 50%.

I'm sure most of the lefties play right handed, just because the weak right hand is much better trained this way. Then starting fills with the left - ending right or left - no problem - see Ringo.

For most drummers - not already arrived at the stardom as Phil Collins and Ian Paice - it's just impossible to sit in on a jam without changing everything - what a mess and arrogance that would be, lol.

B.

[Ian Williams]

Excellent input and knowledge sharing.....Thanks.


Lefthanders feel very comfortable at a "normal" Kit. Because the left hand is so much more important in drumming, everybody lefthander is very happy to be a lefty. They are forced from young age on to concentrate more on learning movements against the brain, so normally they are more "skilled" as normal people - see sports, where their percentage on top level is near 50%.

I'm sure most of the lefties play right handed, just because the weak right hand is much better trained this way. Then starting fills with the left - ending right or left - no problem - see Ringo.

For most drummers - not already arrived at the stardom as Phil Collins and Ian Paice - it's just impossible to sit in on a jam without changing everything - what a mess and arrogance that would be, lol.

B.

[Spiney]

Lefthanders feel very comfortable at a "normal" Kit. Because the left hand is so much more important in drumming, everybody lefthander is very happy to be a lefty.
For most drummers - not already arrived at the stardom as Phil Collins and Ian Paice - it's just impossible to sit in on a jam without changing everything - what a mess and arrogance that would be, lol.

B.

Thanks for the answer. I for one definitely do not feel very comfortable, or comfortable at all on a right handed kit. Though I switch up on most everything else. In baseball I throw with my left, but Bat as a righty. I golf right handed, bowl left handed. My mom tried unsuccessfully to convert me to a righty to the point where I started stuttering, then the doctor told her to leave me alone and let me do what's natural, being a left handed person. I'll try more to play a right handed kit, it sure would make sitting in on jam sessions easier. Thanks again, Dave

[Spiney]

Ringo and the All Starrs are coming to my home town of Lancaster PA in July. I'd like to see him even though the tickets are kind of steep $150.00. To those who have seen him on tour does he play the drums much? That's what I really want to see. I am also going to see a Beatles tribute band in April, called 1964. From clips on youtube I hear they are pretty good. Thanks, Spiney-Dave

[GRUNTERSDAD]

I saw him last July and will see him this July again. he plays about 1/3 of the time. And it depends on his show. He has a new Album out so its hard to tell, but he will play some.
Tickets here, Tampa Florida, are about 60 bucks. Why are they costing you so much.? Here is the band, and tickets go on sale here March 19th.

[BeatlesFan]

To borrow the Dylan phrase, "Nobody does Ringo like Ringo."

Bob Dylan? When did he say this?

[Spiney]

[QUOTE=GRUNTERSDAD;676667]I saw him last July and will see him this July again. he plays about 1/3 of the time. And it depends on his show. He has a new Album out so its hard to tell, but he will play some.
Tickets here, Tampa Florida, are about 60 bucks. Why are they costing you so much.? Here is the band, and tickets go on sale here March 19th.[/QUOTE

It's the venue, a place called American Music Theater. I'll have to call them on it and see what they say. The tickets go on sale today March 16th. Tickets are $100, 135, and $150. Same lineup that you show. They seem to really be inflating the prices. Thanks, Dave

[Spiney]

I just checked the ticket prices through Ticketmaster and the tickets for Lancaster at the American Music Theater are priced about 1/3 to 2X higher than all the other venues including Radio City Music Hall. AMT is the only place you can buy the tickets for Lancaster, Ticketmaster isn't handling them so maybe that is why. I am going to call them on it tomorrow before I but tickets. Dave