Matt Smith & Johnny Rabb/WFD PBS TV

[mattsmith]

It seems like my stuff always comes out in pairs, this time with a vibes project on one end and a WFD thing on the other. I apologize for running 2 completely different threads, but as you can see, this is a completely different subject and seemed strange in the same thread with a vibes/piano duo.

This came out just a few days ago. Since it was /like the November CNN show/ filmed within decent driving distance from my house, I got to be part of this too.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=6VBUfxbo82s

It's a PBS show called Alt. News 26:46. It's run by college age people and its won several Emmys. I was at Boo McAfee's farm outside of Nashville, a couple of months ago as part of his launch for the new WFD video game, which has been taking up most of the WFD operation's time recently. They filmed Johnny's segment at a Nashville gig the night before. Even though there was some editing that made me sound like I was saying things strangely, I was impressed with how nice the production of the segment turned out, and I even got to rant a little. People also get to know Boo /WFD founder/ a lot better, who I've always felt was a very nice guy.

As usual youtube dulls out the camera quality and sound.

[slingerland755]

It seems like my stuff always comes out in pairs, this time with a vibes project on one end and a WFD thing on the other. I apologize for running 2 completely different threads, but as you can see, this is a completely different subject and seemed strange in the same thread with a vibes/piano duo.

This came out just a few days ago. Since it was /like the November CNN show/ filmed within decent driving distance from my house, I got to be part of this too.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=6VBUfxbo82s

It's a PBS show called Alt. News 26:46. It's run by college age people and its won several Emmys. I was at Boo McAfee's farm outside of Nashville, a couple of months ago as part of his launch for the new WFD video game, which has been taking up most of the WFD operation's time recently. They filmed Johnny's segment at a Nashville gig the night before. Even though there was some editing that made me sound like I was saying things strangely, I was impressed with how nice the production of the segment turned out, and I even got to rant a little. People also get to know Boo /WFD founder/ a lot better, who I've always felt was a very nice guy.

As usual youtube dulls out the camera quality and sound.

Thanks Matt,
As usual, I'm blown away. Let me know if you're going to be around Atlanta again.

Michael

[aydee]

Nice interview, Matt.

btw, I checked out your WFD performace on the related videos and what stood out was how still and motionless your right hand/wrist was through the entire 60 seconds.

Obviously because of the trad grip, the left hand did move somewhat more than the right..

I guess speed has a lot to do with no wasted motion.

[Latin Groover]

It's a PBS show called Alt. News 26:46. It's run by college age people and its won several Emmys. I was at Boo McAfee's farm outside of Nashville, a couple of months ago as part of his launch for the new WFD video game, which has been taking up most of the WFD operation's time recently. They filmed Johnny's segment at a Nashville gig the night before. Even though there was some editing that made me sound like I was saying things strangely, I was impressed with how nice the production of the segment turned out, and I even got to rant a little. People also get to know Boo /WFD founder/ a lot better, who I've always felt was a very nice guy.

There is a WFD video game? What does that involve? Sounds interesting. And you and Boo said right in there. Yea, it's not music, we know; just have some fun.

[mattsmith]

Nice interview, Matt.

btw, I checked out your WFD performace on the related videos and what stood out was how still and motionless your right hand/wrist was through the entire 60 seconds.

Obviously because of the trad grip, the left hand did move somewhat more than the right..

I guess speed has a lot to do with no wasted motion.
That's funny you'd mention that. I used to be encouraged to try WFD with match grip because of that very thing, but the grip at those speeds just felt wierd to me. I also have some issues with match grip, not that I don't do it but that I just don't prefer it. See in 9th grade I was in a marching band that required matched grip instead of traditional, and it just wasn't for me so I stopped doing it when I got the chance.

Then I got involved in WFD and noticed that all the top guys/except for Art Verdi/ were matched grip. See I think your ideas about that are true. Traditional grip requires more activity with the trad hand, which means that one hand is always just a tiny bit slower than the other. I think that in general slows you down a little. There are some people on the Internet who try to say that traditional grip is faster, but I've never thought those people knew what they were talking about, and I doubt they've ever played for extended periods at extreme speeds. It certainly has never played out that way in WFD, and really doesn't seem to make any sense from a basic pov, since it would seem that a person could even up match grip a lot better, and that would make you faster for anything up to a 1 minute run.

But for me when this all started, I made a decision that I was only going to do WFD in a way that would improve my overall playing, and I'm 99% a traditional grip player. So it made no sense to keep pushing the matched grip issue with me to win stuff I had already won. I remember doing a couple of matched speed runs a couple of years ago for fun, and was cracking low 1000s, but I've never competed with matched and have never worked on it. I think most of the younger competitors like me, Tom Grosset and Daniel Rice think it's pretty lame to just create a style to win a comp. You see older guys do that. But the three of us are into getting something out of this thing. And we all can't be tech phenoms like Mangini, who seems to be able to do any grip or technique expertly at will. I mean technically he's just on a whole different level.

If I did just become a matched grip WFD competitor I might, with a whole lot of practice increase my overall speeds, but I still don't think I could catch Mangini or Tom anyway. What Tom is doing right now with those incredible stick heights and high 1100s speed is a special thing I think. So I'm cool with staying traditional.

But interestingly enough I really do think that there is an endurance advantage with traditional, especially with the way I do it. Hand wise, since I'm only working the thumb, my left hand can go a long time without getting tired. I also think that's why I'm not the very fastest but hold the WFD endurance records. Art also has freakish endurance. In fact I'd be surprised to see my endurance record beaten by a matched grip player, although Eliot Jones in England gets pretty close.

For me, if my average runs stay in the 1100-1120 range I'm in the game for trad grip records. For about a year I slacked off, but lately I decided to put aside about 20 minutes a day most days for it. So that's where I am right now on a normal day.

[mattsmith]

There is a WFD video game? What does that involve? Sounds interesting. And you and Boo said right in there. Yea, it's not music, we know; just have some fun.

Yeah, the game was actually really good. It hasn't been released yet, but really soon. They have you go one on one with different WFD Drumometer competitors until you get to this one guy who's almost impossible to beat. It's like he's reading your mind. According to the WFD site, it's going online too. I know Boo and company have been spending a lot of time on this direction. I think it makes sense as being a part of the whole WFD thing. I've also seen how much nicer the WFD site is now. The rankings are current, the look is better. I mean everytime somebody tries to say these guys are down and out they come back with something else.

Anyway I had a good time, and it was cool sharing the screen with Johnny Rabb.

[Tutin]

But for me when this all started, I made a decision that I was only going to do WFD in a way that would improve my overall playing, and I'm 99% a traditional grip player. So it made no sense to keep pushing the matched grip issue with me to win stuff I had already won. I remember doing a couple of matched speed runs a couple of years ago for fun, and was cracking low 1000s, but I've never competed with matched and have never worked on it. I think most of the younger competitors like me, Tom Grosset and Daniel Rice think it's pretty lame to just create a style to win a comp.

Totally lame, I know what you mean. That's kind of why I kicked trying to get the Mangini style shiver, I'd never use it in playing. My technique has come along a lot since and has improved my playing, so there you go.

But about the show, that was really cool. I liked what you were saying about how people are negative towards WFD and it is a sport but hey, it's fun to do. It was nice to hear you saying it in person, kind of got over how you felt about it and might stop all these idiots complaining if they hear it too.

Anyway, well done man, hope you're doing okay.

Take care

Tutin

[mattsmith]

That's kind of why I kicked trying to get the Mangini style shiver, I'd never use it in playing.

But about the show, that was really cool. I liked what you were saying about how people are negative towards WFD and it is a sport but hey, it's fun to do. It was nice to hear you saying it in person, kind of got over how you felt about it and might stop all these idiots complaining if they hear it too.



As to the shiver, I don't think I could ever figure that out for an entire minute. That's like the wildest thing I've ever seen.

As for the show, yeah I was kinda surprised that they kept in so much of the rant. It was similar to the first things I ever said in forums. Had they kept the phrase Speed, technique and musicianship aren't mutually exclusive, it would have officially passed for a WFD press kit.

As for the complaining, you know that's not going to stop, because for many people the debate was never sincere to begin with. I'm not saying that's the case for all or even half. But the big time flamers who can't let it go always seem to have another agenda that has nothing to do with this, and a lot more about something more directly related to themselves, whether its their rival comp or just the anger that this gets attention and not the thing they do.

The irony is that when this thing was still in the growing stages it was the relentless hate of the flamers that gave it the needed attention to grow. Three or four years ago somebody could say something positive about this on a drum forum and it would be immediately answered by hundreds of haters who would generate thousands of views for the thread. In the best of all worlds, Boo couldn't have paid for that kind of free publicity. That's pretty funny actually.

[MikeyOdrums]

I think people take stuff too seriously thats why there is negativity. I mean its drums it not life or death. If people want to get all righteous and high and mighty about drum playing then they are not in it for the right reasons. If you want to play 1,000,000 singles in a minute AWESOME DO IT. IF your not into that then guess what DON"T DO IT> But dont hate on people that have goals with their playing. This is what they are into and that is that.

I am not going to call out any names on this forum but there seems to be an undercurrent of arrogance with a few of the more experienced drummers on this board. I just want to say they really need to get over themselves.
mikeyo

good job matt and what the heck is the "shiver"???????

[mattsmith]

I think people take stuff too seriously thats why there is negativity. I mean its drums it not life or death. If people want to get all righteous and high and mighty about drum playing then they are not in it for the right reasons. If you want to play 1,000,000 singles in a minute AWESOME DO IT. IF your not into that then guess what DON"T DO IT> But dont hate on people that have goals with their playing. This is what they are into and that is that.

I am not going to call out any names on this forum but there seems to be an undercurrent of arrogance with a few of the more experienced drummers on this board. I just want to say they really need to get over themselves.
mikeyo

good job matt and what the heck is the "shiver"???????

Thanks man.

This is the shiver.
http://youtube.com/watch?v=e7TzWrKso4I

Mikey, we agree and disagree. I think it's great to drum for fun, and that is certainly the pov of most drummers. There are also a lot of fine drummers who never take it seriously and can still pull off the high level.

But I also think it's OK to get high and mighty about drumming and take it as serious as a heart attack. I mean how do we get greatness in percussion if you don't have the life or death people? After all, does anyone really believe that Elvin Jones ever played for fun? I think he went for it every time to the point of it probably being painful. I know that there are drummers who see this as by far the biggest thing in their lives, and I say great. I think all the WFD champion people are deadly serious about drumming, and are into it to push the art form. Personally I come from a family of hardcores. My old man once wrote an article trying to make the case that music was a form of live intelligence. It doesn't get any more serious than that.

But it's like we said in the clip. There are categories. This part of it is not the music part, it's part of the practice issue that makes the music happen at a higher level. Single stroke rolls played at extreme speeds aren't played to substitute for 3 hour gigs. But I think practicing them makes that gig a better experience for everybody because it can lead to better music. Some guys my age and younger at places like youtube can't see that because they don't work on anything. They just whack on some drums, color it up with some protools and pretend like they're killin'. Then they throw around the musicality word because they saw somebody use it on a drum forum, then they think they're all set.

But I've been sayin' for a long time that hardcore haters are almost always people who know all about what I just said and shout this stuff down on purpose, because it's not what they're selling. I could be wrong but after seeing this about as much as anybody ever has, it's what I feel. I have a very difficult time believing that experienced hater pros don't know the difference between music and a sport that promotes a practice exercise. I just think it's about other issues.

[Tutin]

The irony is that when this thing was still in the growing stages it was the relentless hate of the flamers that gave it the needed attention to grow. Three or four years ago somebody could say something positive about this on a drum forum and it would be immediately answered by hundreds of haters who would generate thousands of views for the thread. In the best of all worlds, Boo couldn't have paid for that kind of free publicity. That's pretty funny actually.

Hah, that would have been a good end to your rant. I get what you say about how it's not what people are selling themselves. It's a shame this kind of thing'll never end. Don't worry though man, I've got your back! Haha

[Citizen Insane]

I'm not really interested in WFD and all that stuff, but great job! 16 years old and the worlds fastest drummer, there's only a handful of people like that. =)

[DamoSyzygy]

^ Actually, there'd only be one :)

Great stuff Matt! Once again youre taking the vibe of drumming out to the world. Its a pity you gave airtime talking about the nay-sayers, though, as it almost came across at one point like a public defense for what you enjoy doing.

You dont need to explain yourself to anybody - Youre the one making it happen.

[mattsmith]

^ Actually, there'd only be one :)

Its a pity you gave airtime talking about the nay-sayers, though, as it almost came across at one point like a public defense for what you enjoy doing.

You dont need to explain yourself to anybody - Youre the one making it happen.

Damo, as moderator for another forum, you as much as anyone has seen how I operate with the out of control personal attack. I don't think anybody should put up with it, not one single time. I know you and I disagree here, but I don't think you've had someone believe this topic funny enough to call your house and say they were going burn it down. Who cares if they're kidding?

Never have I felt defensive of any part of this, nor have I one single time tried to defend myself. In fact quite the contrary. I've merely worked to get this behavior off the Internet. In those instances I have have always believed that certain drum forums can be little propaganda and slander mills that turn into stuff far more serious. And no, from the American pov, this is not a 1st amendment thing. Those who flame troll are a lot closer to the people who scream fire in a crowded room. It shouldn't be allowed. It's only going to take one fool to go too far someday. And WFD is one of those issues, because for some insane reason several forums have seen it totally OK to let anything go.

Those on other forums who have flamed trolled this at my expense have merely been outlined for what they are, then tried to claim that I was being defensive, to buy recovery time for themselves. Then the defensive tag gets to stay because most of these threads go totally un moderated before they're just locked. BTW, that behavior has never happened here.

I think we all know that 99.9% of flame trolls on drum forums are hiding other issues. But sometimes they're others who for whatever reason light a tiny match to see how bright the flame can go. And that happens whether I get involved or not. I've often steered clear of forums that went so far as to make jokes about my mom over something as innocent as WFD. That takes a lot of self control.

See, at a lot of places this stuff gets a free pass, because flaming attracts views. Most of these very guys are doing the same thing on computer forums, television forums or sports forums 10 minutes after they leave a drum forum. IMO, to be defensive would mean that I respect flame trolling enough to care what they think.

Now this isn't the same thing as debate. Debates are great. See we actually debate this issue here. Problem is, a handful will see debate in this tightly moderated place, and really can't even tell the difference between this and a defensive argument. So they just say we're arguing. That still doesn't make their observation correct.

Shoot, I'm not close to being the only one who feels this way. I even heard Mangini going off about it on Drumradio, and do we even have to talk about youtube? All the WFD guys have these stories, and too many of them are just stupid.

Bottom line Damo, I didn't invent the WFD naysayer or his false history, or his bad behavior. IMO a small handful of out of control drum forums not only were the ones who showed him his path to air time, they created him. To its credit Drummerworld was the fairest of all of them. Sure a lot of people don't go for it here either. But that's cool. Agree to disagree. But flame trolling's just different. It doesn't happen here, and there's no coincidence why both sides can be seen here equally.

[DamoSyzygy]

Actually Matt, I dont disagree with you on this subject in any way. Flamers and trollers are a major pain in the posterior. Thats why I enjoy coming here, because the moderation is more thorough and the fact that its not attached to a general music site means it doesnt attract of lot of those kinds of idiots.

Personal attacks that stretch farther than text on a screen should never be tolerated, nor do I like reading and moderating that crap all the time.

Im in my 30's now, and Ive been a moderator of that site since (unbelievably) 2001. The bottom line for me is, kids will be kids.

Some like you truly have talent and make something of themselves, which you can feel proud about. Unfortunately the other type can only feel personal satisfaction and pride by being #1 flamer on a forum. When you have nothing to offer, some people try and bring down those who do. Pay it no heed. Just keep doing what your doing because its working!

[MikeyOdrums]

Right on Matt I get what your saying. I have a degree in music and play semi professionally. I do take it very seriously, I am not just a weekend warrior. On the same token I really just don't think there is room for negativity against someone else for what they believe in or are into. I think that was the point I am trying to make. The high and mighty part is the point that people are saying your not pursuing something true to the instrument, or music, and I say that is wrong. I take practicing very seriously and do so quite often, I am not downing the "seriousness" of drumming or anything like that.
I am in a project that tours quite regulalry and we have inteest and hope that this is going to be our lives. This means endless rehearsel, practice, traqvel. I mean I still love it. I find it fun. This is my point.
Mikey o

Thanks man.

This is the shiver.
http://youtube.com/watch?v=e7TzWrKso4I

Mikey, we agree and disagree. I think it's great to drum for fun, and that is certainly the pov of most drummers. There are also a lot of fine drummers who never take it seriously and can still pull off the high level.

But I also think it's OK to get high and mighty about drumming and take it as serious as a heart attack. I mean how do we get greatness in percussion if you don't have the life or death people? After all, does anyone really believe that Elvin Jones ever played for fun? I think he went for it every time to the point of it probably being painful. I know that there are drummers who see this as by far the biggest thing in their lives, and I say great. I think all the WFD champion people are deadly serious about drumming, and are into it to push the art form. Personally I come from a family of hardcores. My old man once wrote an article trying to make the case that music was a form of live intelligence. It doesn't get any more serious than that.

But it's like we said in the clip. There are categories. This part of it is not the music part, it's part of the practice issue that makes the music happen at a higher level. Single stroke rolls played at extreme speeds aren't played to substitute for 3 hour gigs. But I think practicing them makes that gig a better experience for everybody because it can lead to better music. Some guys my age and younger at places like youtube can't see that because they don't work on anything. They just whack on some drums, color it up with some protools and pretend like they're killin'. Then they throw around the musicality word because they saw somebody use it on a drum forum, then they think they're all set.

But I've been sayin' for a long time that hardcore haters are almost always people who know all about what I just said and shout this stuff down on purpose, because it's not what they're selling. I could be wrong but after seeing this about as much as anybody ever has, it's what I feel. I have a very difficult time believing that experienced hater pros don't know the difference between music and a sport that promotes a practice exercise. I just think it's about other issues.

[mattsmith]

Im in my 30's now, and Ive been a moderator of that site since (unbelievably) 2001. The bottom line for me is, kids will be kids.

Some like you truly have talent and make something of themselves, which you can feel proud about. Unfortunately the other type can only feel personal satisfaction and pride by being #1 flamer on a forum. When you have nothing to offer, some people try and bring down those who do. Pay it no heed. Just keep doing what your doing because its working!

Damo, you're correct, kids will be kids. And kids my age and younger also steal and wreck cars they're not liscensed to drive etc. But a lot of it is illegal, and yeah there are consequences. I mean when a 16 year old is pulled over for drunk driving, does the cop say I'm just gonna let you go because kids will be kids?

Bad example? Ok, how about when a 16 year old calls your house and says they're gonna burn it down? Is that any less illegal because the original thought was initiated on a drum forum? I just wonder why these people think it's cool to do or say anything just because you're doing it on a computer. I'll also bet that in the real world, that arson threat and the drunk driving charge are pretty close to equally illegal. It's also not just us. Again and again the worst people on drum forums are older guys anyway.

The forum world lives in the same world as everyone else, and the standards are exactly the same. When I go on a forum my name isn't Speedydude6500, it's my real name. On a C level, people have an idea of who I am and they know where I live, and its not the remote compound with the unlisted number and security detail that Travis Barker has. So when there are several comments in a row about what my mom can do with farm equipment at our house in Michigan or Georgia, that's an actual problem. When I said in that interview that people do and say horrible things, I wasn't using metaphors. And I'm not the only WFD person who sees the double standard of how some forums allow those comments to stand because it's us and not something they're backing. As someone who is seen on many forums, you also know that it goes that far and beyond all the time.

Again when you're saying some people try and bring down those who do, to me that brings out an image of kids bickering and having little misunderstandings, when I'm talking about slanderous to criminal stuff that's completely different and covers all ages. Why should I be concerned at all about how I heed this stuff, when the laws say they shouldn't be there at all?

MikeyOdrums, thanks for making your point. I understand completely and you're right.

[Citizen Insane]

Actually Matt, I dont disagree with you on this subject in any way. Flamers and trollers are a major pain in the posterior. Thats why I enjoy coming here, because the moderation is more thorough and the fact that its not attached to a general music site means it doesnt attract of lot of those kinds of idiots.

Personal attacks that stretch farther than text on a screen should never be tolerated, nor do I like reading and moderating that crap all the time.

Im in my 30's now, and Ive been a moderator of that site since (unbelievably) 2001. The bottom line for me is, kids will be kids.

Some like you truly have talent and make something of themselves, which you can feel proud about. Unfortunately the other type can only feel personal satisfaction and pride by being #1 flamer on a forum. When you have nothing to offer, some people try and bring down those who do. Pay it no heed. Just keep doing what your doing because its working!

Kids will be kids? Matt seems more intelligent than most of the users here. You shouldn't dismiss someone's opinion just because they are young. Kids can act in a very intelligent, and articulate fashion too.

[mattsmith]

Kids will be kids? Matt seems more intelligent than most of the users here. You shouldn't dismiss someone's opinion just because they are young. Kids can act in a very intelligent, and articulate fashion too.

You got that wrong man. I know Damo, and he wasn't talking about me. He was talking about how a lot of Internet kids act like fools and how I should let more of it slide. We just disagree but he's always tried to work with me although he knows how I feel about some other issues. Insane, life's cool here for the young guys. There is a great deal of respect at DW for the 21 and unders. This isn't a snob crowd, and most times the older guys are much cooler here than the other places.

I think I'm going to go ahead and end my comments about his video. What has needed to be said was and I have nothing further to add except to say thanks for watching.

[SickRick]

Matt:

These are some wild comments you've received on other forums. I haven't read any of those since DWF is the only forum I'm on. I know that other forums are pretty much unmoderated and that bad things happen there (like the racist comments about Billy Cobham). I have one question for you:

Why do you even bother to go to these places? If you stayed out completely or would go under an anonymous name, wouldn't your online life stay much more peacefull? Just asking because I think that it must take a lot of time and energy defending your standpoint against idiocy on the net - time and energy that you might spend for better things.

You won't be able to change the idiots anyway. Why not just ignore them and let them do their rant elsewhere? If you don't read that sh*t you also won't mind it. It is an online problem - in real life nobody ever listens to these guys because 99% of them cannot play. Online, where nobody knows them and nobody knows their playing its different.

[DamoSyzygy]

You got that wrong man. I know Damo, and he wasn't talking about me. He was talking about how a lot of Internet kids act like fools and how I should let more of it slide. We just disagree but he's always tried to work with me although he knows how I feel about some other issues.
Correct, I was referring to the hordes of online wannabes who talk smack but never have the testicular fortitude to put a name to the persona.

I dont disagree with you at all Matt. The problem I have as a moderator over at mx is that I cannot inflict real change because there are too many moderators around, and too few who can inflict change. They either dont agree with my (and your) methodology, or they simply dont ever show up to make changes when they are desperately needed.

To be honest, I was not made aware of the extent of taunting that you received 'behind the scens' and would never have allowed it to go that far if I had known. That being said, you are not alone - To see the true extent of the evil of some of these morons, one needs to only be a moderator!
Of course, the experiences you've had are definitely out of the norm and should NEVER be tolerated. That being said, I have seen many small disagreements blow up to epic proportions online because of simple misunderstandings and pig-headedness, where the irony is that most of us would probably be very courteous and friendly to eachother in a room together. Anonimity can bring out the worst in the weakest.

But as Im sure youre aware Matt, Ive never had any issue with you personally. Youre a great contributor and fantastic player.