little help when it comes to learning songs

[beatsMcGee]

hey, ive never really been in a band before, but i have jammed with people in the past. recently i auditioned for a spot with a band a got the gig. I have good technique/timing and chops but just not alot of experience playing live or with a band on the spot. they have a 7 song set list that i have to learn by next friday ( if i want the gig that is). its pretty straight forward pop punkish type of music, but i just was wondering if there was any advice that could be given to help me learn the songs. I play on the kit for at least 2 hours every day and play to the radio and/or my fav cd's but the thing is i know those songs really really well and spot on. with this band they are all new to me and when we we're jamming he would say things like " okay after the 1st verse go back to the intro" etc... and i feel my problem is that im not to great with song structure and how it generally works. I know there is an intro, verse, chours etc.. but how many measures is each usually, and whats a bridge lol? im also pretty nervous about playing infront of a big audience, any help with dealing with that would be great. thanks so much.

late

[PQleyR]

A bridge is just a section that's not anything else, really! It bridges the gap between other bits of the song.

I don't think there's a typical length for a chorus, or a verse, it's always different. I wouldn't worry if you don't know which bit is which yet, unless you wrote the song it can be difficult to know. Just ask. As regards learning the songs, I would just listen to them a lot. Then they'll be in the back of your mind when you need them.

[beatsMcGee]

so pretty much the songs are only going to come with expereicence and repetition right? there is no standard formula that comprises a song like; intro+verse+chorus+bridge+verse+intro etc...

[dcrigger]

so pretty much the songs are only going to come with expereicence and repetition right?

Well, IMO not really. This is something that you can really get a lot better handle on with a just a bit of study, with some techniques that will serve you a lot better than just relying on memory built only from immersion and repetition.

there is no standard formula that comprises a song like; intro+verse+chorus+bridge+verse+intro etc...

You're right, not exactly, but it's not like every song is totally different either. With the exception of 12-bar blues songs, each song is divided into sections, that are usually arranged in some sort of - often repeating - order. Some sections can have very typical lengths (referring to the number of bars) and others will have sections of unusual lengths. And these sections tend to function similarly from song to song. In that, verses sound like verses and choruses like choruses. Intros are where things start - interludes are, as the word describes, little transition sections between major sections.

Bridges - to answer you question. When it is there, it would be a third big song section like the verse and the chorus - but usually as a section that turns things around emotionally. Often the section that leads to the chorus in a new a different way If the verses are the story Verse 1 "One night we were at a bar; my girl met another guy" Verse 2 "They really hit it off, this doesn't look good" And the chorus is -"Keep you eye on your girl when go to a bar, If you don't you could lose her for sure" Well the bridge might be "You know now that she's gone, I realize she wasn't for me. But with my next girlfriend, I'll be sure to remember to....." And back to my sad sorry excuse for a country song chorus.

Anyway, back to learning songs quickly....

The idea here is to be able to hear the song; recognize the various sections; then count the number of bars in each section; then jot down the order of the sections and their lengths on paper (in some formal or informal way) along with any other reminders of things you don't want to forget about the song. And Ta-Da!!! You've learned a song - after only a few listenings - and what's best is you don't have to keep it all in your head. So you can always come back to a song later and by reviewing your little cheat-chart, you'll be ready to go.

Fast, efficient, reliable... it works and its really pretty easy once you do it a bit... And while I get this may be a bit much to take on by next Friday, it really is the direction you want to go in.

So if you want, what are your 7 songs?


David

[slingerland755]

Well, IMO not really. This is something that you can really get a lot better handle on with a just a bit of study, with some techniques that will serve you a lot better than just relying on memory built only from immersion and repetition.



You're right, not exactly, but it's not like every song is totally different either. With the exception of 12-bar blues songs, each song is divided into sections, that are usually arranged in some sort of - often repeating - order. Some sections can have very typical lengths (referring to the number of bars) and others will have sections of unusual lengths. And these sections tend to function similarly from song to song. In that, verses sound like verses and choruses like choruses. Intros are where things start - interludes are, as the word describes, little transition sections between major sections.

Bridges - to answer you question. When it is there, it would be a third big song section like the verse and the chorus - but usually as a section that turns things around emotionally. Often the section that leads to the chorus in a new a different way If the verses are the story Verse 1 "One night we were at a bar; my girl met another guy" Verse 2 "They really hit it off, this doesn't look good" And the chorus is -"Keep you eye on your girl when go to a bar, If you don't you could lose her for sure" Well the bridge might be "You know now that she's gone, I realize she wasn't for me. But with my next girlfriend, I'll be sure to remember to....." And back to my sad sorry excuse for a country song chorus.

Anyway, back to learning songs quickly....

The idea here is to be able to hear the song; recognize the various sections; then count the number of bars in each section; then jot down the order of the sections and their lengths on paper (in some formal or informal way) along with any other reminders of things you don't want to forget about the song. And Ta-Da!!! You've learned a song - after only a few listenings - and what's best is you don't have to keep it all in your head. So you can always come back to a song later and by reviewing your little cheat-chart, you'll be ready to go.

Fast, efficient, reliable... it works and its really pretty easy once you do it a bit... And while I get this may be a bit much to take on by next Friday, it really is the direction you want to go in.

So if you want, what are your 7 songs?


David
Nicely done David,
I remember the first time I learned about a bridge section.

So what are the tunes?

[chuzwazza]

I never think of a song just different parts such as a chorus or verse, I only ever use these terms as a reference to converse with whoever im playing with. Whenever I've gotta learn a song, I air drum it to death - I learn to love the song, sometimes I even look into what the song is about, and try to relate to it-that way ill be so into performing it that any nerves turn into anticipation and passion, I always try and channel my energy that way.

I find it easier to play with other people as opposed to a cd or something because, playing with others means YOU lead the way, you are not following a cd, you are creating the time, the others are meant to follow you-thats the drummers job. good luck with it!

[PQleyR]

I'm not sure about needing to learn the sections...after all, you (BeatsMcGee) said that you can play along to songs you know without problems. You just need to do whatever it is you did with those songs, but with these new songs. I find I rarely play my best when thinking about which bit of the song goes where, it's too much of a distraction.

[beatsMcGee]

I'm not sure about needing to learn the sections...after all, you (BeatsMcGee) said that you can play along to songs you know without problems. You just need to do whatever it is you did with those songs, but with these new songs. I find I rarely play my best when thinking about which bit of the song goes where, it's too much of a distraction.

yea i just played them to death over a long period. but im just worried ill draw a blank when im on the stage lol.

[beatsMcGee]

Well, IMO not really. This is something that you can really get a lot better handle on with a just a bit of study, with some techniques that will serve you a lot better than just relying on memory built only from immersion and repetition.



You're right, not exactly, but it's not like every song is totally different either. With the exception of 12-bar blues songs, each song is divided into sections, that are usually arranged in some sort of - often repeating - order. Some sections can have very typical lengths (referring to the number of bars) and others will have sections of unusual lengths. And these sections tend to function similarly from song to song. In that, verses sound like verses and choruses like choruses. Intros are where things start - interludes are, as the word describes, little transition sections between major sections.

Bridges - to answer you question. When it is there, it would be a third big song section like the verse and the chorus - but usually as a section that turns things around emotionally. Often the section that leads to the chorus in a new a different way If the verses are the story Verse 1 "One night we were at a bar; my girl met another guy" Verse 2 "They really hit it off, this doesn't look good" And the chorus is -"Keep you eye on your girl when go to a bar, If you don't you could lose her for sure" Well the bridge might be "You know now that she's gone, I realize she wasn't for me. But with my next girlfriend, I'll be sure to remember to....." And back to my sad sorry excuse for a country song chorus.

Anyway, back to learning songs quickly....

The idea here is to be able to hear the song; recognize the various sections; then count the number of bars in each section; then jot down the order of the sections and their lengths on paper (in some formal or informal way) along with any other reminders of things you don't want to forget about the song. And Ta-Da!!! You've learned a song - after only a few listenings - and what's best is you don't have to keep it all in your head. So you can always come back to a song later and by reviewing your little cheat-chart, you'll be ready to go.

Fast, efficient, reliable... it works and its really pretty easy once you do it a bit... And while I get this may be a bit much to take on by next Friday, it really is the direction you want to go in.

So if you want, what are your 7 songs?


David

http://www.myspace.com/whoaitstheellipsis

this is there myspace and the songs there are some of the ones im playing if not all of em.

[dcrigger]

Okay beats, I tackled the first one, Southside Addiction...

Fun stuff - but like so much modern punk, not at all just follow along and play what you feel. This tune has very specific section with a number of them having either kind of signature drums unique to that section or (as in two sections) very specific unison parts with the rest of the band. Also many of the sections are in 6 bar phrases, not just the normal 8 bar verse - 8 bar chorus.

So there's lots of ways to do these scratch parts - from real formal to just scratched out. Now I can scribble out bits of notation pretty quick so I did that in a few places - but the main thing, I think, is to get the bar structure and the section structure written down, so when your playing you can focus more on "What should I be playing here?" and less on "OMG, what's coming next?"

So just quick and dirty - I'd still have to remember tons to play this right, but at least I've the roadmap and some clues to remind of things. So here's a PDF for anyone who wants to see the chart.

Southside Addiction Cheat Chart PDF (http://www.davidcrigger.com/drummerworld/SSA.pdf)

To explain for anyone struggling with my scribbles, I'll walk through it.

Intro - 4 bars (with those accents on 1, the & of 2 and 4)

then 2 bars of time

then repeat all of that

then Verse 1 - 6 bars of time, then another 6 bars of time

then what I'm calling the Pre-chorus - 6 bars with Floor tom 1/8th notes and SD on 2 and the & of 2, etc

then the Chorus - made up of two different 8 bar sections (so that's 8 bars + 8 bars)

then do the Verse (6 + 6), PreChorus (6) and Chorus (8 + 8 ) again

then two of the 4 bar Intro sections

Then the Bridge!!!

...which has a half-time FEEL - which means I've left the count fast and am just feeling it in half time.

This bridge is obviously very specific - so I jotted down the actual rhythm to play (in this song, nobody will care that much if the BD part in the Verse isn't exactly the same, but for this bridge, any other part would basically be considered wrong)

So the bridge plays this two bar figure eight times - so that is 16 bars

Then the Solo/Instrumental section - again a very specific "stop-time" part, that a lot of the band is playing right with the drums - this section is 16 bars long, BUT... the last 2 bars totally change up and are a big two bar fast flurry of 16ths leading to...

The Chorus - just like before - 16 bars (8 + 8)

then two more of those 4 bar Intro sections

Then two half note crashes (on 1 & 3) and a short "bop" on 1 ... and that's it.

One cheat chart - I've done a billion of these over the years, so it will probably take those new to this a bit longer than two or three times through the song (starting and stopping) with a fourth time to check it that it took me. But it really can go pretty fast - much faster than trying to just cold memorize it.


Anybody else wanna try one.

Have fun,

David

[beatsMcGee]

Okay beats, I tackled the first one, Southside Addiction...

Fun stuff - but like so much modern punk, not at all just follow along and play what you feel. This tune has very specific section with a number of them having either kind of signature drums unique to that section or (as in two sections) very specific unison parts with the rest of the band. Also many of the sections are in 6 bar phrases, not just the normal 8 bar verse - 8 bar chorus.

So there's lots of ways to do these scratch parts - from real formal to just scratched out. Now I can scribble out bits of notation pretty quick so I did that in a few places - but the main thing, I think, is to get the bar structure and the section structure written down, so when your playing you can focus more on "What should I be playing here?" and less on "OMG, what's coming next?"

So just quick and dirty - I'd still have to remember tons to play this right, but at least I've the roadmap and some clues to remind of things. So here's a PDF for anyone who wants to see the chart.

Southside Addiction Cheat Chart PDF (http://www.davidcrigger.com/drummerworld/SSA.pdf)

To explain for anyone struggling with my scribbles, I'll walk through it.

Intro - 4 bars (with those accents on 1, the & of 2 and 4)

then 2 bars of time

then repeat all of that

then Verse 1 - 6 bars of time, then another 6 bars of time

then what I'm calling the Pre-chorus - 6 bars with Floor tom 1/8th notes and SD on 2 and the & of 2, etc

then the Chorus - made up of two different 8 bar sections (so that's 8 bars + 8 bars)

then do the Verse (6 + 6), PreChorus (6) and Chorus (8 + 8 ) again

then two of the 4 bar Intro sections

Then the Bridge!!!

...which has a half-time FEEL - which means I've left the count fast and am just feeling it in half time.

This bridge is obviously very specific - so I jotted down the actual rhythm to play (in this song, nobody will care that much if the BD part in the Verse isn't exactly the same, but for this bridge, any other part would basically be considered wrong)

So the bridge plays this two bar figure eight times - so that is 16 bars

Then the Solo/Instrumental section - again a very specific "stop-time" part, that a lot of the band is playing right with the drums - this section is 16 bars long, BUT... the last 2 bars totally change up and are a big two bar fast flurry of 16ths leading to...

The Chorus - just like before - 16 bars (8 + 8)

then two more of those 4 bar Intro sections

Then two half note crashes (on 1 & 3) and a short "bop" on 1 ... and that's it.

One cheat chart - I've done a billion of these over the years, so it will probably take those new to this a bit longer than two or three times through the song (starting and stopping) with a fourth time to check it that it took me. But it really can go pretty fast - much faster than trying to just cold memorize it.


Anybody else wanna try one.

Have fun,





David
nice, man that is really helpful lol. could you do them all (just kidding), unless you want to? lol

i have a little trouble discerning how many bars make up a section.

[dcrigger]

nice, man that is really helpful lol. could you do them all (just kidding), unless you want to? lol

If it was my gig or audition, it would be first on my list. In fact, I've had calls come up where I've had to choose to either do the cheat charts or sit down a play some with the tape - just because there wasn't time to do both. I do the cheat charts, even if it means actually playing the stuff for the first time at the rehearsal... at least I have more of a clue what I'm doing that way.

But it's not my gig... :-)

And seriously, the process of doing these really seems to burn a lot of the info into memory. So the actual process of doing them IS really a big chunk of learning the song - at least for me.



i have a little trouble discerning how many bars make up a section.

Find the landmarks that mark the sections first, then count the bars between them.

For example, to find the length of the Intro - determine where you think the beginning of the verse is, listening enough so that you can hear it when it comes up. Then go to top and start counting - 1 2 3 4, 2 2 3 4, 3 2 3 4, 4 2 3 4, 5 2 3 4, etc. until you hit the bar where the verse starts. With Southside, the verse starts right as you count 13, so the Intro is 12 bars.

The next question for me in Southside was, how long after the verse starts does he switch to the floor tom? Start playback a bit before the verse - and start counting again the same - starting from the beginning of the verse till the first hit of the floor tom - again 12 bars.

Then from the floor tom to the first crash of the chorus - 6 bars.

And on through the song - counting; writing down the answers; filling in the blanks. Don't even try to hear it as one big thing. Because it isn't one big thing - it is a bunch of sections strung together. All songs are. All music is. Break it down.

Anyway - I'm really not wanting to mess with your process of preparing for next week - and since I really don't know your background, I couldn't begin to guess how much or little work you have between you and getting this method up and running enough to be useful.

If you feel this is just going to drag you down before your thing next week, just walk away from this for now. You can always come back to it a little later, if you wish.

But on the hand, if you have more questions, fire away.

David

[beatsMcGee]

well ive been practicing to a set list cd which just contains music and no words, but id like to have a cheat list for each song so that i can at least know which song title goes with which song cause at the moment i know none of the song titles.

i think id be more comfortable having the cheats with me so i can remind myself which song is which at the show etc..