Two Song Covers with New Mics

[Jivi]

I bought a mic kit for my drum set and recently mixed my drums over two songs to check out my timing and the sound of my drums.

If you listen to the audio, it's fairly hard to hear the bass drum. Does anyone how to boost the volume without peaking? I'm a real noob at recording stuff so if you have any good advice for recording, it'll be much appreciated. These mics are fairly cheap as well.

Freeway by Alex Deegan
Click here to watch Freeway-Drum-Mix-1 (http://media.putfile.com/Freeway-Drum-Mix-1)

Fall of Troy - FCPREMIX
Click here to watch Fall-of-Troy-Drum-Mix-1 (http://media.putfile.com/Fall-of-Troy-Drum-Mix-1)

Any comments about my playing also appreciated. I have two and a half years or so experience.

[Drummer Karl]

Nice stuff!
Firs about your question: Think the other way round. Turn the rest of the kit (except the bass drum) calmer and if needed, also the song. This way you don`t get your bass drum "peaked" but achieve more volume from it.
If the final mix is too calm overall you can edit the general gauge with Wavelab or so.

Btw, how are your overheads positioned. I thought your crashes were loud compared to the Ride cymbal.

Your playing was well done. I think one thing was that you often threw 16th notes in. You don`t have to. Keep it groovy. Adding this choppy stuff can really retard the band. If you do it anyway or you`re supposed to do so in a song, keep up practicing the consistnce so that it always drives.
You got a really nice feel for groove I think! =) All that making-it-better-stuff takes time, no worries...

Karl

[Jivi]

Thanks for the comment.
On my mixer, most of my Gain is really really low, my volume slider things are at 0db I think. Do I change them around? I also had to lower the low and mids as well for bass drum. Is this right? I was thinking about lowering the rest of the kit but the settings except for that volume slider thing are pretty low.

My overheads aren't where I would like them to be because of space restrictions and yes they are pretty much right above my cymbals.

The first song had a written score with it from a magazine, so everything in that was fairly true to the score. I'm also trying to get used to that 7/8 click.

The second one I learnt by ear but the drummer for that band is overly technical in all their songs which I like for their type of music and I tried to emulate that. When I'm soloing I definitely take into consideration the amount of chops I'm throwing out. Thanks for pointing that out still.

[mrhahn]

Sounds amazing, I really dig the groove in F.C.P.R.E.M.I.X. but I've never heard anyone cover it before - very accurate!

[Drummer Karl]

Jivi - Really take care of mic positioning at first. How and where is your bass drum mic positioned? How are the overheads positioned? Do you use condensers? Can you give us some pics?

I can highly recommend to experiment with positions. A few common ones might be the XY, where both overheads cross, here is a useable pic I think:
http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bild:XY-Stereo.png
Creates a good "image" of the room and is a secure way of recording since there aren`t real problems with phase cancellation.

Another one which gets positive reputation is the ORTF position:
http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bild:ORTF-Stereo.png
This way of recording creates a much better image of the room since there are gauge- and durantional differences...though this can cause problems with phase cancellation. The mics should be positioned 24 inches over the kit at least.

Experiment with this a bit. A nice ORTF variation is that you direct the mics towards the ceiling over the drum kit. This is effective if you`ve got a small/relatively flat room, though your ceiling should be wooden or so. This creates a soft and round drum sound, very comfortable.

Just some ideas...with the drums: I had a similar problem when I recorded. It overpowered even if I turned everything very calm. Have you looked at your lows? Maybe you`ve got too many of them?

Karl

[Jivi]

Thanks mrhahn! I have a thing for getting covers as accurate as possible lol.

I'll try the XY position one first since I have seen that used before and experiment with the ORTF too. Do I position the overheads above or behind the kit? Whats phase cancellation?

My overheads are condensers.

My bass drum mic is positioned just inside the bass drum hole on the front head. I know that alot of people position it right inside the bass drum but I don't have a stand or anything for that, is just outside ok?

http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b333/JJChill/IMG_1229.jpg
http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b333/JJChill/IMG_1228.jpg
http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b333/JJChill/IMG_1227.jpg

My room isn't ideal for recording as it is padded and stuff. Also you can see my bass drum is close to a wall. I'm sure I can get a better sound out of it though.

[Red Hawk]

to me, it sounds like all the sounds are there, you just need to work on them a little in the mix. Run everything you can through a compressor and keep tweaking everything. This will especially be useful on the kick and snare. A light gate on the toms would be beneficial too.

[Jivi]

Yeah I was considering a compressor after someone told me what it was. What do you mean by a light gate on the toms?

EDIT: Nvm I found out what gating was. Compressors seem pretty expensive, and so does firewire for the software compressors.

Does something like this work?
http://cgi.ebay.com.au/compressor-mini-dbx-great-sound_W0QQitemZ250228067577QQihZ015QQcategoryZ2379 2QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

[Drummer Karl]

When using the ORTF position you also position the mics above your kit. Though it`s still important to experiment with positioning. Try to position the overheads the other way round as I said, widen the angle between the mics to get a broader, more open sound, to catch more instruments on your kit.

So now, when recording the kit with two overheads it can happen that there is phase cancellation, means: Every mic records a wave of sound (since sound is nothing else than waves if you see it physically). If the peaks of the one wave and the valleys of the other wave meet at one point they cancel out each other and the "stereo" wave happens to be 0.
This is also called a "destructive interference"...

The aim is to get two waves which logically don`t "meet". Then you`ll get a constructive interference.
Here are two pics, the left is an example for a constructive, the right for a destructive interference:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Interference_of_two_waves.png

You can read more about that on wikipedia...

PS: I see that your hi-hat mic is positioned right in front of the hi-hat. I`d rather put it above it since it could overdrive through the air when doing step hits with the hats...

Karl

[Maytridy]

Nice drumming. Your room's acoustics are "dead" because of your sound insulation. This isn't necessarily a bad thing, just add some light reverb effect to open things up (especially on the snare).

Also, I don't know if you were going for a total mix with the song, but the drums are much too loud compared to the rest of the instruments. I don't know if this was intentional so that we could clearly hear your playing though.

[Jivi]

When using the ORTF position you also position the mics above your kit. Though it`s still important to experiment with positioning. Try to position the overheads the other way round as I said, widen the angle between the mics to get a broader, more open sound, to catch more instruments on your kit.

So now, when recording the kit with two overheads it can happen that there is phase cancellation, means: Every mic records a wave of sound (since sound is nothing else than waves if you see it physically). If the peaks of the one wave and the valleys of the other wave meet at one point they cancel out each other and the "stereo" wave happens to be 0.
This is also called a "destructive interference"...

The aim is to get two waves which logically don`t "meet". Then you`ll get a constructive interference.
Here are two pics, the left is an example for a constructive, the right for a destructive interference:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Interference_of_two_waves.png

You can read more about that on wikipedia...

PS: I see that your hi-hat mic is positioned right in front of the hi-hat. I`d rather put it above it since it could overdrive through the air when doing step hits with the hats...

Karl

Oh ok thanks, I'll probably play around with those overheads today and see what happens.
I usually don't use that Hi-hat mic but I'll stick it above anyway and experiment with it also.

Also, I don't know if you were going for a total mix with the song, but the drums are much too loud compared to the rest of the instruments. I don't know if this was intentional so that we could clearly hear your playing though.

Thanks for the comment, I had to reduce the sound alot because certain parts of my drums were much too hard to hear. I don't have a compressor/gate or anything. When you say add reverb, do you mean as in EQ?