Help with drum micing or EQ - MP3's inside

[fourstringdrums]

Hey guys,

My band has been experimenting with recording practices with my guitarist's home setup, straight to a laptop. The guitars (except for one), and vocals are going direct, and my drums are mic'd with a 3 mic setup. Here is my problem:

Take this mp3: http://www.handidrummed.com/Bare%20B...ee%20mar19.mp3 (http://www.handidrummed.com/Bare%20Bones/finally%20free%20mar19.mp3)

Of course the drums don't sound great. They're very low in the mix, the snare is hard to hear, as is the bass, and the overall sound is just compressed.

This was recorded with 2 condenser mics over the drums (I don't know what kind, though they're the pencil type) and a vocal mic on the bass (that's all we have). The first condenser was placed about 1 1/2 - 2 feet above me sort of in the middle of my hi-hat, left ride, tom, and snare, if you make a square out of them. The mic was angled back to try and capture the tom more and to the right a bit. That might have been my first mistake. The second mic was positioned between my right ride and floor tom and angled to the left a bit. The bass mic was placed inside the bass, angled the right a tad.

I just found out that the drums were compressed a bit before hand, so we'll definitely have to turn that off and add some later should we need it. I do think that we could fiddle with the eq a bit too as I was told everything was flat. What I did do was take the drum only track and play with the eq, bumping the bass, mids, and highs a tad, and laying it over the full band track. That seemed to help:

EQ Edited MP3: http://www.handidrummed.com/Bare%20B...r19%20edit.mp3 (http://www.handidrummed.com/Bare%20Bones/finally%20free%20mar19%20edit.mp3)

But again, it's still very compressed, which of course won't go away with eq.

So what should I be looking at here to improve the sound? EQ? Mic positioning? We just have these 2 condensers and the vocal mic to work with, along with our small mixer and whatever program we record into. We're not looking to make a demo, just something decent we can put on line and give to possible gig spots.

Thanks!

[Wavelength]

http://youtube.com/watch?v=IiFOD1EeKhQ

Try placing the condensers like that, then put the dynamic mic inside the bass drum, or if you're driving an "unholy" bass drum, place the mic a couple of inches away from the reso head, pointing around the edge of the drum. The dynamic mic is going to pick up the lower frequencies and ring, and the condensers will pick up the attack portion.

[Der Februar]

Cut the bass on everything but your bass drum and the bass guitar. That way you can boost those and the low end will be really clear and your mix won't sound muddy. Also, only boost the treble on whatever instruments you think would benefit from it; for the same reason as the bass frequencies. Check out www.record-producer.com (http://www.drummerworld.com/forums/www.record-producer.com). It's where I learned that. It has an entire section of articles about equalization and tons of other great stuff about making good recordings. If you're going to be recording your drums with just three mics, which I think is the best way to do it, you can get a nice bass drum mic here for fifty dollars: www.musiciansfriend.com/product/CAD-KBM412-Bass-Kick-Drum-Microphone?sku=270774 (http://www.musiciansfriend.com/product/CAD-KBM412-Bass-Kick-Drum-Microphone?sku=270774) I believe its the one the Fleetwood Mac drummer currently uses.

[PQleyR]

Hi fourstring,

Firstly, try using a lower compression ratio. If you need to you can lower the threshold to keep the transients down, but that might stop the compression being quite so audible.

Secondly, you could try EQing out some of the really low frequencies (below about 40-50Hz) from the overhead mics, as that will increase the clarity of the sound and free up some headroom in the mix. You might want to scoop out some frequencies at around 300Hz too, that can also clarify the sound.

If you want to bring out the snare in the mix, just try putting the mics in an X/Y pair over the snare, i.e. crossed over each other at a 45 degree angle, facing diagonally down over half the kit, sort of in an X shape. That will help with any phase problems as well.

You could try inverting the phase of your kick mic and see if that improves the sound at all.
Also, kick mics can often afford to have a lot of the mids taken off them, that might clean up the sound a bit too.

What software are you using for recording?

[fourstringdrums]

What software are you using for recording?

I don't know what my guitarist uses. I'll have to get back to you on that one.

[SLEEPY BRiGHT EYEZ]

If you can, record your drums without compression or EQ unless you know you want to keep that sound in the final mix. It's much easier to apply compression and EQ later in the mix. Just get the best sound you can when you are tracking.

Also, check the levels at which the sounds are hitting the DAW. Individual tracks do not need to be 'hot' when tracking to a DAW, especially if you are recording in 24bit. If you get the average levels around -12 to -18db in the DAW, you will leave plenty of headroom for the peaks/transients. If the input levels are too high, then you are basically compressing the sound at the DAW's inputs.

Mic position plays a big part, as well as the room. Especially phase relationships. If you are getting a lot of phase cancellation between two or more mics, you may not be hearing the full frequency range of the sound source. The best way to check for this is to flip polarity on mics/pres, or even in the DAW, and listen for how one mic relates to the others. If you want to get into the nitty gritty, you can time align your close mics with your OH/room mics using delays or the nudge feature in your DAW.

With three mics, you can try the X/Y pattern, as already suggested. You could try the Glyn John's technique. I only use three mics myself, and I like to have a mono OH, then dedicated snare and kick mics. Sometimes I'll have a room mic as well. Don't be discouraged because you are using a 'vocal' mic on the kick. I'm assuming this mic is a small diaphragm dynamic like an SM58. If so, you can use proximity effect to keep the kick sounding boomy.

The preamps also play a big part in this. Don't expect much from pres on a budget interface or mixer. They can get the job done, but once you get your hands on even a semi-decent dedicated piece of gear, you'll quickly notice the difference in headroom, tone, and detail.

As far as the drums being too low in the mix- the easiest solution there is to lower all of the other tracks, in relation to the drums. And out of curiosity, how do you record vocals direct? Did the vocalist have an instrument cable lodged in her throat? hehe ;)

Keep it up man. It's sounding good. The best thing you can do is to keep experimenting. You'll find what works best for you.

[fourstringdrums]

And out of curiosity, how do you record vocals direct? Did the vocalist have an instrument cable lodged in her throat? hehe ;)

*lol* Well I just meant that the speakers weren't mic'd or we weren't using a room mic for the vocals.