Tom note progression.

[siperwrx]

Hey there,
I'm having a hell of a time tuning my toms. I've got a Tama Imperialstar set from the 80's and I can't get the sound I want out the toms. It has six toms, what note should each one have to sound like a natural progression when I do fills around the kit?

I've got a couple other basic questions, please bear with me. :-)
I've been tuning the batter head really tight (so I can get a good bounce) and the reso heads low (so they don't sound too ridiculous.) Aside from my tuning issues, what heads would be good for a solid, wet sound. (i.e. Joey Jordison)
Any help would be appreciated, I've read about all I can concerning tuning, I've just never been taught the basics about tuning/head differences, etc. Thanks guys!

[PQleyR]

For a Joey Jordison type sound, you want to use clear heads with dampening like Remo Pinstripes.

The notes aren't as important as the intervals between each one. They just need to be tuned in a way that minimises unwanted dissonance. For six toms, you might want to tune them a major second apart. What you can do can depend on the relative sizes of your drums.

[stasz]

What are the sizes of your toms? The smaller the difference in diameter the harder it will be to get a larger interval in pitch between two drums. I can tell you that on my kit, an entry-level Ludwig, I can get by 12x9 tom and my 16x16 floor tom about a fifth apart, although I couldn't tell you which notes specifically.

Really it's all about what sounds good to you, experiment with different tunings, and always start with the lowest drum first, getting the lowest note you like the sound of and then moving to higher drums. Don't forget the importance of tuning the resonant head, as well, meaning the resonant head has a big role in the fundamental pitch of the drum. Oh, and I second Remo pinstripes for a wet sound.

[pxf446]

i like the Evans Hydraulic heads and i find then very easy to tune, and i dont need the remo rings because the oil in the dampins them.

[Wavelength]

If your batters are tuned higher than the resonants, you're just bound to have bad sounding drums. Tune both heads to the same tension, or tune the resonant head a bit higher. The "batter for feel, resonant for pitch" idea is totally bogus and doesn't work at all. First and foremost you should be concerned about your drum's sound, and then adapt to its playing feel. Find your favorite tuning range on each drum and then experiment with different intervals between the heads. You'll get your kit sound uniform when you use the same interval on all drums. For a wet sound, tune your resonant heads to their lowest clean note and the batters a bit lower, so that they'll rumble a bit.

[Royal]

First and foremost you should be concerned about your drum's sound, and then adapt to its playing feel..

Yep.
Everything is a compromise.
Get the sound..then play it.
I have my Toms tuned in the low ranges...which make them more exacting to play as the bounce (what there is) is harder to use.
You just have to work at it.

[siperwrx]

Thanks guys for the advice, I understand what you guys are saying about the intervals. I've read in tuning guides about tuning to the 5th, 4th, etc. Humor me here, what does that mean? Is there a good site that we'll break it down in very basic terms for me? I've had no formal training and I've basically overlooked this stuff for the years I've been playing. Thanks again!

[Der Februar]

On a different but related note, why is it that 16ths down the toms seems to be so common? I can't think of once where I've heard someone do that from the lowest toms to the highest.

[siperwrx]

Anyone? Where can I learn about tuning the 4th, 5th, etc. I've got an Imperial star kit from the 80's. It's a booger getting them in tune, any help appreciated. :-)

[Wavelength]

Anyone? Where can I learn about tuning the 4th, 5th, etc. I've got an Imperial star kit from the 80's. It's a booger getting them in tune, any help appreciated. :-)

Google "music theory".

[Wavelength]

On a different but related note, why is it that 16ths down the toms seems to be so common? I can't think of once where I've heard someone do that from the lowest toms to the highest.

It's common because most players lead with their right hand, and it's easier to move to the right using a right-hand-lead single stroke roll. Surprisingly few people venture into the realm of double strokes and left hand lead.

[siperwrx]

Google "music theory".

I'm sorry, I don't quite have time to study music theory, I'm just trying to tune my drums. There has to be a simpler explanation rather than having to learn music theory. I'll get there eventually, but I just want to play on a kit that sounds good first.

[druid]

I'm sorry, I don't quite have time to study music theory, I'm just trying to tune my drums. There has to be a simpler explanation rather than having to learn music theory. I'll get there eventually, but I just want to play on a kit that sounds good first.

Well I think it is important to get some basic theory at least. The only way you can understand things like 4ths or 3rds...or 5ths is to know what they mean....maybe spend some time with a keyboard or piano. For example in a C Major scale

C is the root note
E is the 3rd ( above)
F is the 4th ( above)
G is the 5th ( above)

And learn how these intervals sound together. There really are no short cuts if you want to understand this. Once you hear them better it will help your own tuning by being able to sing those pitches in your head and matching those with your tuning. It all takes practice.

[siperwrx]

Ok I think I understand. So in the C Scale:
C is the root note
E is the 3rd ( above)
F is the 4th ( above)
G is the 5th ( above)

E is the 3rd note away from the root note in the scale, the F is the 4th and so on?

[druid]

Ok I think I understand. So in the C Scale:
C is the root note
E is the 3rd ( above)
F is the 4th ( above)
G is the 5th ( above)

E is the 3rd note away from the root note in the scale, the F is the 4th and so on?

Exactly....C Major is

C,D,E,F,G,A,B,C....all white keys on the piano ( 1/2 steps occuring between E and F and B and C)

So C to E a Major 3rd
C to F a perfect 4th
C to G a perfect 5th

For now I would fool around with understanding those relationships. I would not worry about minor keys or anything. Just to get an understanding of pitches and intervallic relationships. I used to like to tune my toms a 4th apart for example with the bottom heads slightly higher than the top. This gave me a nice "spread" of sound using 4 toms on my old kit.

The Theory will come in understanding how a scale works in other keys. Because you very likely won't end up tuning to a C major scale..although you could.

I hope this helps.

[siperwrx]

This definitely helps. :-)
So if I've got my 4 toms setup and I want to tune them a 3rd apart. It would be C-E-G-B? If that is correct, would it sound ridiculous to tune them that way?

[druid]

This definitely helps. :-)
So if I've got my 4 toms setup and I want to tune them a 3rd apart. It would be C-E-G-B? If that is correct, would it sound ridiculous to tune them that way?

No ....often times starting with a definite pitch gives you a referrence. If you were to tune exactly to those pitches then put the drums back on their stands etc...you may or may not like the way they sound....so some tweaking might be in order. Although you can be very scinetific with it...there is also alot of room for variance when you tune and you have to decide what kind of sound like like as well? Deep thuddy....Higher with more ring? Also keep in mind many drum sounds you hear on CD's etc have been through a ton of processing and the original instrument prodcuing that sound may sound very differnt from the end result. Back to the orignal question though no I think tuning in 3rds is pretty common and will give you a good start.

[siperwrx]

Awesome, thanks Druid for the great responses and for putting up with my lack of education. :-)

[cdrums21]

Awesome, thanks Druid for the great responses and for putting up with my lack of education. :-)

One problem you may run into that was mentioned a little before is if you have two toms that only have a 1" difference in diameter, say 12" and a 13" toms. It may be difficult to get a third pitch seperation between the toms. If you have a 2" difference uniformly around the kit, 3rds should work. If not, try going a minor third apart (3 notes apart), meaning if your 13" tom is an F, your 12" tom would be G#. A third would be an A. Ideally, you want to have your toms tuned in their optimum tuning range. Too tight or too loose will diminish the sound quality that the drum is capable of. So, make sure that when you choose say the highest or lowest tom as a starting point, get that drum to sound its very best, then go from there on the other toms. So if you start with your floor tom, which should probably sound good around a low B or C if it's a 16 incher, tune the next drum up in line a third or minor third higher in pitch and so on up the line. See how it sounds and tweak as needed. As stated earlier, most drummers that I know of who get a killer sound tune their tom heads to the same pitch or bottom slightly higher. Also, make sure the pitch at each lug point when tapping on the head about an inch or two in from the lug is the same at each point. That means the head is in tune with itself and will sound better and last longer.

[PQleyR]

On a different but related note, why is it that 16ths down the toms seems to be so common? I can't think of once where I've heard someone do that from the lowest toms to the highest.

Like Roger Taylor does in 'You're My Best Friend'? Or do you mean something else?

[Tylerdrums109]

Being a guitarist before i took up the drums i always figured toms were tuned to notes just like guitar (this is debatable but i hear deffinate pitches from the toms and i feel they sing better at certain precise pitches) i find that toms are best tuned as the notes C D or E...but thats just my preference...and as u probably already know the snare is best tuned to A or G below....hope thats somewhat helpful

[Tryitagain]

I never personally bothered tuning toms to specific pitches. Depending on the drum, you may never find the point where the drum "explodes" and resonates if you insist on forcing that drum to sing a specific note. I've found that most of the time if you tune each tom to it's own best sound, the intervals between each tom will be perfectly acceptable ...

One suggestion: Bob Gatzen's DVD "Drum Tuning, Sound and Design...Simplified" gave me more info on drum design and tuning in 2 hours than I learned on my own over the last 20-something years.

[PQleyR]

I never personally bothered tuning toms to specific pitches. Depending on the drum, you may never find the point where the drum "explodes" and resonates if you insist on forcing that drum to sing a specific note. I've found that most of the time if you tune each tom to it's own best sound, the intervals between each tom will be perfectly acceptable ...


That depends on the size of the drums. If you have toms that are, say, 10" 12" 14", then the intervals between them will be even. If you've got 12" 13" 16" like I have, though, the interval between the top two is very different to the one between the bottom two, so sometimes a compromise must be made. I find myself having to tune the 13" lower than I would otherwise to get it to fit in between the other two.

[Tryitagain]

That depends on the size of the drums. If you have toms that are, say, 10" 12" 14", then the intervals between them will be even. If you've got 12" 13" 16" like I have, though, the interval between the top two is very different to the one between the bottom two, so sometimes a compromise must be made. I find myself having to tune the 13" lower than I would otherwise to get it to fit in between the other two.

Agreed... I also have a 12, 13, 16 kit and, yes you can lower the 13 or raise the 12 slightly and stay within the drum's "sweet spot" to achieve a sensible interval. My point is I would never spend an afternoon trying to turn my kit into a melodic instrument by tuning to specific pitches, or tuning to specific intervals, especially if it sacrifices the sound of a tom. I realize some drummers do tune to pitches, and some drummers (some very famous) do not. I just don't.

[PinkZepplin]

This definitely helps. :-)
So if I've got my 4 toms setup and I want to tune them a 3rd apart. It would be C-E-G-B? If that is correct, would it sound ridiculous to tune them that way?

you might not want to go with that exact tuning. I would go with C E G C just to make it an arpegio and be "harmonius". But that's just me. I'm picky about theory. You would actually probbaly tune them C G E C Descending down your toms, since if you tuned it C E G C Descending, those would be descending 6ths.

[balboa]

On a different but related note, why is it that 16ths down the toms seems to be so common? I can't think of once where I've heard someone do that from the lowest toms to the highest.

neil peart in LaVilla Strangiato, bill bruford in One More Red Nightmare, there are many others as well. also sometimes its not all the way up the toms but rather up 3 or 4

[FunkRaft]

here. check this out if you havn't already

http://home.earthlink.net/~prof.sound/index.html

[Der Februar]

neil peart in LaVilla Strangiato, bill bruford in One More Red Nightmare, there are many others as well. also sometimes its not all the way up the toms but rather up 3 or 4I'm sure that people have, even though (aside from people posted in this thread) I've never heard of any. I meant from highest to lowest toms is just more common.

[FunkRaft]

high to low, when you talk your voice tends to go down towards the end of a sentence. Try talking and make your voice a higher pitch at the end, in my opinion the sentence isn't completed.
Thats why i think its more common to play a lower note at the end of a phrase

Justin

[balboa]

high to low, when you talk your voice tends to go down towards the end of a sentence. Try talking and make your voice a higher pitch at the end, in my opinion the sentence isn't completed.
Thats why i think its more common to play a lower note at the end of a phrase

Justin

thats pretty much how peart explains it off his work in progress vids