Learning Jazz..right way or wrong way?

[funkytomtom]

I've begun to delve into the world of Jazz drumming. A few months ago, I started merely "feeling it out" to miles davis, thelonious monk, and attempting some joshua redman. This seemed to take my playing quite a bit farther, simply immersing myself in the music and playing. I then began taking formal jazz lessons from my drum teacher, which includes all sorts of four limb independence exercises, and a very structured approach, I noticed my playing stagnate even as I mastered the exercises. So...since jazz is such an expressive style with such a personal sound, is there some better way to progress in a semi-structured way that doesn't eliminate the necessary soul?

[Guillermo]

When Jazz was much more preeminent musical in US culture, people just went to it... it had no mystery, that's what young guys wanted to play in the 30's and 40's.

Basicly ANY style you follow will be better understood and felt, the more familiar you become with it.... the more you play it.

There's LITERALLY THOUSANDS of cues on your mind from rock and pop music, metal whatever you came up with... subconsciously they are there in your mind... ideas for them come easy, playing it feels natural.

Something you are now beggining to delve into might feel a bit awkward... also it is difficult to find people to JAM that with... and you only know YOUR TRUE MUSICAL SELF when you play along people.

So just keep listening, absorving and interiorizing all that music... the greatest cultural contribution the US has made to the world, next to motion pictures.

[k3ng]

I don't know about lessons. The way I picked up my jazz was purely by listening and imitation. Listen listen listen. Expose yourself to as much jazz music as possible. independence is great to learn. It helps you do the things that you want to do in the future without struggling. But no one can truly teach you how to express yourself on the kit.

Do a whole lot of listening and try and listen closely to how jazz drummers comp. What gives that particular sound and why is it there. I used to take jazz tracks and play along to them. Sometimes I'd try my own comping, record it down and see whether it sounded good. Then if it didn't I'd look back to the original and see where they played what.

So listen and apply. Listen and apply. And... well...listen and apply.

[Drummer Karl]

It`s actually cool what you did. Like k3ng said, LISTEN to the music. It`s a great way to get familiar with the style and you`ll also notice that Jazz is such a big area, such a big word. You`ll hear how the band plays with each other and you`ll notice what you like and what you dislike till now. As this tree grows you`ll be able to let more complex stuff in.

You know, be open, let the music speak. I can recommend to go through the history of Jazz, with listening and reading. Play with the music and of course have fun.

The other part will surely be playing, practicing this kind of music. Developing a unique and fine swing is very important as it`s a part of you and your interpretation. As well as those coordination excercices...it`s expanding your vocabulary, learning.
This takes time. If you`ve got the passion and enjoy what you do it can take you far.

Karl

[dcrigger]

FunkyTomTom - I don't know about right or wrong way, but I know taking lessons is one part of a smart way. But...

You have to keep exploring, and listening, and playing yourself. Your teacher is not going to actually teach you how to play jazz, you are. He's only going to help you get up to speed on some techniques that you will probably end up needing. Stuff that will make for very slow learning, if you try to work it all out by yourself. But the exploration, the listening, the immersion - these you have to do yourself.

My advice is don't worry too much about melding the two courses of study - the lessons and the self-study. They will eventually blend themselves.

For now, get ahead of the game with your lessons, and at the same time stay immersed in the game of exploration and discovery.

Have fun,

David

[Dave S]

As has been said, listening is key. Someone recently rightly remarked (look at that alliteration!) to me that music colleges and universities have only been teaching jazz for the past however many years. Before that, people had to purely listen, so lessons are not strictly necessary. Obviously they should help and perhaps speed up the process with some structure and insight from your teacher, just don't rely on them completely! Good luck...

[jay norem]

Stick with the lessons, but don't take them too seriously. What they'll give you is a technical grounding, nothing more. To play jazz you have to...play jazz. That means you really need a couple of guys to play with. Failing that, see if there are any open-mic nights at a local jazz club. And try to get to know some jazz drummers, so you can pester them with all kinds of stupid questions, which is the way I did it. (All of this was a lot easier back when I was coming up, playing in nightclubs.) Listen to the great jazz drummers, start buying all the CDs you can afford. Soak it up! And remember: good jazz technique=good drumming technique.

[Cymbalrider]

I had never really been exposed to jazz until high school, where we had a jazz band. After that though, I've really come a long way. Before that, I had grown up playing most oldies rock and roll. After researching jazz though, I see where all of that came from. Now I'm sort of into researching the beginnings of jazz and really have found my favorite type. I think it's important to understand where everything came from. Plus, I think it's fun to play. Try finding some old ragtime, swing stuff and some New Orleans or Dixieland charts. Then move into the Big Band era and follow that through the 60s with groups like the Buddy Rich Big Band (if that doesn't get you excited, you might want to change instruments). Then is the bop craze (which I'm personally not to fond of), and blues ( I do like these however). Finally comes modern stuff like Dave Weckl. This website is a great resource for finding videos and information on all sorts of drumming so start looking. There are even helpful tips from guys like Ed Shaughnessy and Joe Morello.

[funkytomtom]

Sounds like some good advice, thanks

[jay norem]

Jazz is one kind of music you have to PLAY to learn. It's easy with rock drumming. The beats and fills are placed in nice little boxes for anyone to listen to and learn. It's possible for a drummer to have never played with anyone and still be a good rock drummer, because everything is laid out in a very simplified way, it's predictable and easy to learn. Beats and fills. You listen, you learn, you practice, BAM! You're in a band.
Jazz drumming, on the other hand, is all about a well-practiced but hard-to-teach technique that is concerned with interacting with other jazz musicians. It's not a matter of learning how to play beats or fills. What happens in jazz is not as predictable as what happens in rock. So the jazz drummer has to have the ability to listen to and interpret the music that's being played in real time. There's no playing beats in jazz. It's moment-to-moment drumming, you can't coast and you can't fall back on your tried and true licks because that isn't where the music is going. To play jazz you have to be able to invent on the spot. And the only way to really learn how to do that is to play jazz, to play it all the time.
But hey, nothing against rock music.

[OldStampK]

I've begun to delve into the world of Jazz drumming. A few months ago, I started merely "feeling it out" to miles davis, thelonious monk, and attempting some joshua redman. This seemed to take my playing quite a bit farther, simply immersing myself in the music and playing. I then began taking formal jazz lessons from my drum teacher, which includes all sorts of four limb independence exercises, and a very structured approach, I noticed my playing stagnate even as I mastered the exercises. So...since jazz is such an expressive style with such a personal sound, is there some better way to progress in a semi-structured way that doesn't eliminate the necessary soul?

When playing jazz with other musicians forget the lessons you mastered and play for the moment. The licks and coordination you are practicing now will seep in to your playing over time, but if you make an effort to play lick A or independence exercise C while playing with the band, you'll end up sounding like a book learner rather than a player. Just do everything in your power to make the music feel good.

Han Bennick has some suggestions for practicing to enhance creativity. I cut and pasted it from a drummer forum somewhere, Unfortunately, I don't have it with me but I can post it tomorrow. He suggests doing stuff like playing as fast as you can for 5 minutes, playing on 1 part of your kit, playing loud, playing soft, playing 1 pattern over and over but making it sound interesting etc. Devoting some part of your practice time to just playing, but within certain perameters can really help you develop your own personality as a player.

[OldStampK]

I've begun to delve into the world of Jazz drumming. A few months ago, I started merely "feeling it out" to miles davis, thelonious monk, and attempting some joshua redman. This seemed to take my playing quite a bit farther, simply immersing myself in the music and playing. I then began taking formal jazz lessons from my drum teacher, which includes all sorts of four limb independence exercises, and a very structured approach, I noticed my playing stagnate even as I mastered the exercises. So...since jazz is such an expressive style with such a personal sound, is there some better way to progress in a semi-structured way that doesn't eliminate the necessary soul?

When playing jazz with other musicians forget the lessons you mastered and play for the moment. The licks and coordination you are practicing now will seep in to your playing over time, but if you make an effort to play lick A or independence exercise C while playing with the band, you'll end up sounding like a book learner rather than a player. Just do everything in your power to make the music feel good.

Han Bennick has some suggestions for practicing to enhance creativity. I cut and pasted it from a drummer forums somewhere, Unfortunately, I don't have it with me but I can post it tomorrow. He suggests doing stuff like playing as fast as you can for 5 minutes, playing on 1 part of your kit, playing loud, playing soft, playing 1 pattern over and over but making it sound interesting etc. Devoting some part of your practice time to just playing, but within certain perameters can really help you develop your own personality as a player.

[oops]

For sure there's not really a right or wrong way as such, but there's an efficient and an inefficient way to learn.



Listening is the key. Not listening while you're doing homework, or working (which is still helpful), but setting aside to sit and listen and analyze and not think about anything else.

Having a teacher to get you through some of the gnarlier stuff, and to give you their take on it is also extremely helpful.