Using a Metronome While Learning Complex Jazz Patterns

[Nick S.]

Greetings,

I've started to work on the jazz patterns in "Mel Bay's Complete Modern Drum Set" by Frank Briggs. They involve both the left hand (snare) and right foot (bass drum) playing comping patterns against the basic right hand ride pattern and 2 & 4 on the hi hat. So far, breaking these patterns down has been a real challenge, as I'm self taught and my reading skills are poor. I have the accompanying DVD, but Frank only plays a few of the 16 patterns from the book, and the video doesn't identify those patterns. Since I'm still developing my reading skills I've found DVD/book combinations such as Tommy Igoe's "Groove Essentials" to be extremely helpful since I can watch the pattern being played as I read the notation from the book.

Here's my question: do those of you who have delved into complex jazz patterns such as these feel that using a metronome, capable of playing triplets and other subdivisions, would make it easier for me to get these patterns down? I own a very basic metronome that will only play straight, evenly spaced notes such as quarters, eighths, etc.

Thanks,
Nick

[OceanDirt]

any kind of metronome will help. a more complex metronome that can play subdivisions will help you more.

the best thing to do is learn the patterns first without a metronome so that you can play them relatively comfortably without stopping (even if it's only at a very slow tempo). then, you turn on the metronome and never turn it off.

[Drummist222]

There are lots of ways to use a metronome when practicing this kind of thing, and you don't necessarily need anything fancy. You can put the click on 2 and 4, on quarters, or on the subdivided triplets, and unless you need the click to tell you where 'one' is, you can use an extremely basic metronome. It'd probably be a good idea to set the metronome to around 200 bpm, and use that as the triplet(yes, it's very slow). Then play through the patterns and lock in with the metronome. This should make sure that you're hitting those triplets solidly.

[KCDrummer]

It's always great to practice anything and everything with a metronome, just to make sure your time is on the money. No matter how complex or cool a pattern or lick is, it's useless if you can't play it in time.

I would also recommend playing whatever you're working on along with some recordings. It's one thing to play something by yourself in an isolated "practice" context. It's quite another to be able to play it in the context of a tune making smooth transitions, keeping up the groove, etc. Playing along with a tune will help you become comfortable playing things in more of a performance context. It teaches you how to play with people rather than a machine. There are lots of jazz recordings, particularly live ones, on which the tempos may fluctuate, because we're all human, even the legends had some push and pull. So if you practice something with a metronome and get it "perfect" and then try to lay it down with a group that may not be so perfect, it's gonna crash and burn.

Basically what I'm saying is that it's good to develop consistent time, but you should also develop your flexibility so you can play the things you want to play and be able to adjust on the fly.

[OceanDirt]

It's always great to practice anything and everything with a metronome, just to make sure your time is on the money. No matter how complex or cool a pattern or lick is, it's useless if you can't play it in time.

I would also recommend playing whatever you're working on along with some recordings. It's one thing to play something by yourself in an isolated "practice" context. It's quite another to be able to play it in the context of a tune making smooth transitions, keeping up the groove, etc. Playing along with a tune will help you become comfortable playing things in more of a performance context. It teaches you how to play with people rather than a machine. There are lots of jazz recordings, particularly live ones, on which the tempos may fluctuate, because we're all human, even the legends had some push and pull. So if you practice something with a metronome and get it "perfect" and then try to lay it down with a group that may not be so perfect, it's gonna crash and burn.

Basically what I'm saying is that it's good to develop consistent time, but you should also develop your flexibility so you can play the things you want to play and be able to adjust on the fly.

KCDrummer - i definitely agree with you about the need for flexibility and the importance of playing along to recordings. the latter cannot be stressed enough.

i just think it should be pointed out: we should be aiming to start from a place of "perfection" and then be able to adjust comfortably to the feel of the band around us. i really believe that the metronome should be on during 85% of practice time and that you should count out loud as much as possible to internalize the time.

i'm coming from a place where i didn't do those things nearly enough and am now finding myself struggling to make up for wasted time, bad habits, and a poor time feel.

the key is balance though: work on technique, reading, comping exercises, whatever by first getting your head/hands around the exercise, then turn on the metronome and repeat repeat repeat; then turn on some recordings and play along, trying to match the feel of the drummer/bass player as closely as possible (ideally, transcribing the drum part or at least the form and general grooves/feels throughout the piece).

one more tangent that Drummist222 reminded me of - for those who have a pretty solid swing going, here's a tough exercise which will really measure how accurate your time feel is. turn the metronome on to quarter notes at a comfortable, medium swing tempo (140-180 or so). instead of feeling the click as downbeats, feel it as the third partial (one-trip-LET two-trip-LET etc.).

regarding the original topic: Drummist222 is definitely right. start slow, with the click counting out the whole triplet. it will only help you solidify the groove.

[wowlyness]

sorry guys for a bit off topic i guess....


but when drumming on the kit while the metronome is going does it drown it out?

[Wavelength]

but when drumming on the kit while the metronome is going does it drown it out?

If you play loudly and the metronome's volume is soft, then you will definitely drown it. Usually people use earphones when playing with a metronome

[jamndrummer]

Nick,

I would recommend you getting Ted Reed's Syncopation book. He starts that off with quarter note patterns on the melody and then works up to some complex syncopations. This way you can play the melody first using the snare only (playing melody) while playing the jazz pattern/hi hats. Then you can do the same thing again using the Bass drum (playing melody) with time on top. This will make it easier for you to begin. You definetely should be using the metronome while practicing any patterns. I think learning a 3 limb independence is the step you might consider using before the 4 limb. In fact with the book you have you might play those melody patterns and just play quarter notes on the ride leaving the hihat out completely. Then try playing just the hihat with the melody with no ride. Then put them all together and once you can do that change your ride pattern from quarter notes to the 12/8 feel jazz groove.

Always break it down if its to complex.

Jill

[Muckster]

Metronome is a great practice tool to see where you stand at any tempo. Just be sure to work on your "internal" time and not be dependent on the metronome.

[Nick S.]

Hey Folks,

Thanks for the feedback. Jill, I had been working on some of John Riley's 3 limb independence exercises before picking up Frank's book. Since the 4 limb exercises in "Mel Bay's Complete Modern Drum Set" are even more complicated than the ones I'd been working on, it occurred to me that using a more sophisticated metronome, capable of accenting specific notes to help me keep my place while working out the patterns, might make the learning process a bit easier. I'm afraid I'm guilty of "trying to run before I can walk" by jumping into the 4 limb exercises so quickly, but after playing in blues and rock bands for years with a steady back beat on 2 & 4, and quite often straight quarter notes on the bass drum, I now find myself in two different jazz bands. One is a trio with guys from a 7 piece R&B group that I play in called "Jumptown" (see link below) and the other is a quartet that I actually auditioned for. Surprisingly I won the audition, so now I'm scrambling to catch up. Anyway, I really appreciate the help all of you Drummerworld forum members offer. I do have Ted Reed's Syncopation book, so I'll dust it off and get working. If any of you have other suggestions concerning the best books to use for improving reading skills, please let me know.

http://www.myspace.com/jumptown

Thanks,
Nick

[Just Drums]

Metronomes are essential. I should also recommend using a good drum machine. I have a Yamaha machine that's easily 15 years old and I still use it daily. I can program anything into it to practice against. You name it - 2-3 or 3-2 clave, shuffles, odd meter clicks, 2 bars on & 2 bars off, tempo changes, conga parts, etc. Granted some of the higher end metronomes have a lot of these features (but not nearly as many voices), it's just so much easier to do this with a drum machine. They're great tools too!

[boomboomda]

I have to second that, I only use a metronome on my practice pad.
On my set, it's all done with my also very old Yamaha Rx 5 drum machine, and you can get them relatively cheap on ebay.


Metronomes are essential. I should also recommend using a good drum machine. I have a Yamaha machine that's easily 15 years old and I still use it daily. I can program anything into it to practice against. You name it - 2-3 or 3-2 clave, shuffles, odd meter clicks, 2 bars on & 2 bars off, tempo changes, conga parts, etc. Granted some of the higher end metronomes have a lot of these features (but not nearly as many voices), it's just so much easier to do this with a drum machine. They're great tools too!

[Nick S.]

It sounds like my money might be better spent on a drum machine than on a more sophisticated metronome. I'll look into a used Yamaha Rx 5. I know very little about drum machines and what's available. Are there other machines you feel I should I check out as well? What will give me the "biggest bang for the buck" if I purchase a new machine?

Thanks,
Nick

[Just Drums]

I have to second that, I only use a metronome on my practice pad.
On my set, it's all done with my also very old Yamaha Rx 5 drum machine, and you can get them relatively cheap on ebay.

I believe I have RX -something too. Maybe a RX7?? Don't know...I'll have to look when I go home.

[dcrigger]

Here's my question: do those of you who have delved into complex jazz patterns such as these feel that using a metronome, capable of playing triplets and other subdivisions, would make it easier for me to get these patterns down? I own a very basic metronome that will only play straight, evenly spaced notes such as quarters, eighths, etc.

Thanks,
Nick

Nick - I personally think a more complex metronome is really of limited value. Metronomes are great, once you've got a handle on playing an exercise to then turn on the metronome to make sure you are playing it evenly and consistently. But not until you think you can do that.

Until you are close to that goal - keep the metronome off and focus on counting. Breaking the rhythm down - even if you have to fudge the time. That's fine, just don't fudge the counting. Know where each part of the pattern falls sequentially, then work it into an even tempo.

Only then, turn on the metronome, to work on consistency and/or to be able to notch your way up through faster tempos.

In any case, don't practice anything with the metronome all the time - we're supposed to leaders when it come to time, not followers. So while metronomes are great, they can also function like training wheels if you let them. Far better to fly solo for awhile - and then slap the metronome on to see how you're doing. And back and forth.

David