getting started on jazz

[musical_drummer]

What is the difference between the basic jazz patern and the basic swing pattern, I thought both are the same. Please correct me if I'm wrong.
Here it goes

3 3 3 3
_ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _
Ride x x x x x x x x
Kick x x
H.H. Pedal x x
Snare x x

So, i'm planning to get started on jazz. So, as far as I know, this is the basic pattern. I need all your help, I'm really clueless on this. I've played drums for around 2 years, but I mostly play rock, gospel, n pop, n I use matched grip (is that a problem for learning traditonal jazz?). How do I get started? What should I listen to? Do you have any tips? Thanks.
Cheers

[musical_drummer]

OOOPPSS!!! That looked a bit jumbled...!!!! It didn't look like that when I was writing it!!! Oh no... I hope you guys can still help me..

[Class A Drummer]

First off, playing matched is and has always been perfectly ok for jazz. Next, im not sure if you have one or not, but get a good teacher. Third peice of advice is to pick up a copy of "Advanced Techniques for the Modern Drummer" by Jim Chapin. People say "The Art of Bop Drumming" by John Riley is also good. Ive looked through it a few times but i cant really vouch for it. The Jim Chapin book Focuses solely on the Jazz Ride spang-a-lang pattern. It is really just an amazing book for working on your independence while grooving.

[Tuxido]

Hi,
the grip doesn't matter.
the books mentionned above are great; Chapin's Advances techniques for the modern drummer and Riley's Art of bop.

These books are great for the technical aspect, but you need to go back in time and listen to all the drummers from new orleans, swing (big band), bop, cool, hard bop, avant-garde, to understand how to apply what you've learned.

Zutty Singleton
Chick Webb
Gene Krupa
Sid Carlett
Papa Joe Jones
Kenny Clark
Joe Morello
Vernel Fournier
Philly Jo Jones
Max Roach
Art Blakey
Elvin Jones
Tony Williams

Good luck, have fun !

Drummerworld's video section and youtube are very helpful for this.


(but i'm not a pro, this is only my opinion.)

[Shedboyxx]

Class A makes some good points.

I'll throw my .02 in.

Matched Grip: One of the current absolute top mainstream jazz players - not talkin' fusion or jazz funk but what many call 'straight ahead jazz' - is Bill Stewart. When guys play like Bill I almost always get a mental picture of them using traditional. Not so with Bill. He's a matched grip guy but like me will occasionally go to traditional.

Many top players, such as Steve Smith and Dave Weckl right now are espousing traditional grip for different reasons. In the last 10 years both have been somewhat energized and directed by their studies with a drum guru named Freddie Gruber, a local guy here in L.A. On one of Weckl's videos, Freddie even speaks about hand technique while using traditional but makes a point that the mechanics he speaks of work with matched or traditional. He even says something like they are the same. Obviously since his students have settled on traditional (which also include Neil Peart), then he must at one point make an impression on them in regards to why traditional is a good way to go. Even though I'm not a huge Neil Peart fan, I find it really interesting that he switched.

Personally I grew up learning traditional but switched to matched in the '80's when I went to college. Matched was having a real resurgence and there were extremely good arguments for going to it. Bolstering my decision was the fact that playing other non-mallet keyboard percussion parts employed some kind of matched grip (French or German). It took a few years for me to get it working well. Today I keep my traditional up by working out on a pad but only use it on gigs when I play brushes or when my wrist gets tired. For traditional to work on drumset, especially on a snare, I have to adjust my drum heights, positions and angles. It's an either/or situation with the most glaring challenge being trying to get control and consistency on rimshots. So I stay with matched mostly, even on straight ahead jazz gigs.

Books:
I think the Chapin recommendation is a must at one point. Every drum student should go through it and it is a classic. However, I think there may be better starting points for learning the idiom, book wise. I second the Riley book(s). The Art of Bop is great for getting going and I believe even includes a CD with audio examples. If you are just starting on reading, Peter Erskine's Drum Essentials is a good choice although it functions as a beginning primer for reading and drum set education.

[*BTW:It's hard to relate to players coming up today, how cool the current eductional resources are compared to when I was starting. There are so many good books/CD/DVD materials that are worlds beyond what I had coming up. This and other good forums are other great resources that were unheard when I started playing in the late 60's/ early 70's]

I've been playing jazz for a long time but felt the need to deepen my jazz vocabulary. I recntly bought John Riley's 'Beyond Bop' book and CD. I'm working through that now and it's just great. I highly recommend John Riley's materials. I believe he has another resource called The Jazz Drummer's Workshop. I haven't looked through it but the description seems to really point toward a comprehensive jazz drumming resource. Also if you can rent or buy Steve Smith's History of the U.S. Beat that would be very helpful. He talks and demonstrates jazz styles from some of the earliest jazz playing to modern day jazz (including fusion). He also has ridiculous technique and talks and teaches on that as well. I rented this from Netflix but plan on buying it because it's so well done.

What to listen to:
Tough.
The history of jazz playing is deep even though not that long in years relatively speaking. If you want a comparison, think of somebody asking what's good rock drumming to listen to. Rolling Stones or Shadows Fall? Led Zeppelin or Little Richard? Foo Fighters or Rush? It's the same way with jazz. There are jazz lists all over the internet but I can give you a small list of general suggestions. Artists with some specific suggestions.

Louis Armstrong: The Hot Five band
Benny Goodman: Live at Carnegie Hall (with Gene Krupa playing the famous 'Sing, Sing, Sing' solo)
Art Blakey and the Jazz Messengers
Charlie Parker
Miles Davis: Kind of Blue, Miles Smiles, Four and More
John Coltrane: Anything with Elvin Jones on it, My Favorite Things is the famous tune.
Buddy Rich: West Side Story, Big Swing Face
Wynton Marsalis: Anything with Jeff 'Tain' Watts on it

I have to stop because there are way, way too many to list..

This has been a long post but let me finish with a couple of thoughts. Jazz is both emotional and cerebral. Therefore listening to and hopefully enjoying the music, in some fashion, will be part of learning it. No books DVD's or forums can replace that. Especially going out and earnestly seeking good live jazz. Like any music there are mediocre examples out there and certainly sub genres that may not ever 'take' with you. But really good jazz is magical and can't be transferred to any other situation. Go get it where and when you can.

I noticed also that you put some drum tab stuff in your original post. I highly recommend that you become well versed in reading regular drum notation. The learning experience will go so much faster if you can do this. If at all possible, get with a good drum teacher that has a firm handle on jazz playing and teaching. Not all drum teachers will, so shop wisely for a teacher.

Good luck on your journey and HTH

Jim

[foursticks]

Kind of Blue is like THE starting point for new comers to jazz.

Match grip - don't sweat it, there are plenty of players today who use matched. Traditional will be a bit easier but either way works.

Basic pattern/Jazz pattern - I guess they're both refering to 'spang-a-lang'