Double-bass lower back ache

[schist]

G'day.

The problem here: For 30 minutes every day, I practice double bass by holding a constant 16th-note single-stroke roll at 125BPM, left foot leading (the metronome is set on 8th-notes, so my left foot lines up with the clicks). I usually have a mirror to my right facing me to observe myself practicing in, looking for any physical/technical anomalies.

What I've noticed though is I tend to hunch over slightly when playing double bass at 105BPM 16th-notes and higher, and playing in general (I always sit up straight when playing slower double bass - if I hunch over even slightly, I'll lose control). And I'm not really even that tall (just under 5'11"), so height isn't really a factor in my posture. I can usually get through the 30 minutes relaxed and consistently, but I've started noticing a tiny ache in my lower back. The last thing I want is to blow my back out completely and have to give up playing.

So, can anybody give any suggestions/exercises/what have you to help remedy this situation?

Cheers

- Adam

[Big_Philly]

Are you twisting your back looking in the mirror?

[schist]

Are you twisting your back looking in the mirror?

Nah, I'm just craning my neck over enough to look into the mirror, nothing severe.

[Jeff Almeyda]

Your hip flexors are tightening up, pulling on the low back and causing pain there. The hip flexors are where the front of the thigh meets the hip. They are used when you play heel up double bass. They are the muscles that hold your thigh in the air.

Google hip flexor stretches and start doing them as well as hamstring stretches and you'll feel improvement.

[abe]

Jeff, I'm using your heel-up methode (or Mangini's) for awhile now and it helps especially when I'm doing C&C exercise. Thank you for that exercise where you sit on something high and play with only feet!

Now I do it also when sitting on my drum throne. Thought I can keep legs up almost totaly still, I feel that I get tired faster as if I use slight leg motion not big, very small. So my question is this: does Mangini allow little leg movement when doing for example single stroke roll on bass drum?

[JRH7]

I agree with Jeff, on finding stretches for the hip flexors. You may also want to find stretches for your hamstrings as well as your lower back. Lower back pain can also be a sign that you need to do a little abdominal work. I a strong core is essential to staying away from both back pain and injuries. Talk with your doctor he or she should be able to give you a list stretches and exercises.

J.

[Just Drums]

Your hip flexors are tightening up, pulling on the low back and causing pain there. The hip flexors are where the front of the thigh meets the hip. They are used when you play heel up double bass. They are the muscles that hold your thigh in the air.

Google hip flexor stretches and start doing them as well as hamstring stretches and you'll feel improvement.


Brilliant and very informative. Good reply!

[Cauchy]

I agree with Jeff, on finding stretches for the hip flexors. You may also want to find stretches for your hamstrings as well as your lower back. Lower back pain can also be a sign that you need to do a little abdominal work. I a strong core is essential to staying away from both back pain and injuries. Talk with your doctor he or she should be able to give you a list stretches and exercises.

J.

Agreed, a strong core is essential. I've been doing deadlifts (of the straight-legged variety) for a long time now. I've found that having strong abs and lower back make all the difference whether you're moving heavy furniture, playing long sessions of double kick, doing heavy labor etc.

By the way, if you're interested in learning more about the deadlift and don't have a gym-rat to learn from, do a search for Pavel Tsatsouline. He sells a range of products, and that is where I learnt how to do deadlifts.

Beware: the marketing is a bit over-the-top.

His kettlebells are very handy for your core too. Take a look about the net to see if it might suit you.

[abe]

Agreed, a strong core is essential. I've been doing deadlifts (of the straight-legged variety) for a long time now. I've found that having strong abs and lower back make all the difference whether you're moving heavy furniture, playing long sessions of double kick, doing heavy labor etc.

By the way, if you're interested in learning more about the deadlift and don't have a gym-rat to learn from, do a search for Pavel Tsatsouline. He sells a range of products, and that is where I learnt how to do deadlifts.

Beware: the marketing is a bit over-the-top.

His kettlebells are very handy for your core too. Take a look about the net to see if it might suit you.

Jeff, is training with kettleballs.

[oikroitnik]

let your stomach muscles do their job.
if you were to cross section your body horizontally you'd see there is no bone between your ribcage and your pelvis,other than your spine.
you must tense your abs.try to do it whenever you are sitting.
although this will cause you grief, to start with,
abs are much more resillient than the disks in your lumbar area and besides all the chicks dig a flatter stomach.

pull it in as you lay it down...

[dea]

Try a Vruk pedal. No need to raise your leg with this tool because in rest position when you foot comes down, the beater is naturally pulled away from the head. Remarkable design in that it makes the most efficient use of your body's energy. Because your feet are always planted ( the twisting ankle motion is the basis for movement ), you can play faster, and longer with much less energy use and it alleviates much of the need to coordinate your feet ( which can cause the pulling on your back with one foot up, the other down, etc. ). Plus the expressive energy this tool houses will literally blow you away and will change your entire paradigm as to how you view the drums can be played. It did for me. I am not the same drummer anymore. The contrast is remarkable.

The dude who designed this tool is an absolute genius. My hats off to him.

[Stevesmithfan]

I've had the same problem with my lower back. I raised my throne up a few inches and the pain went away, that was over 8 years ago! Give it a try.
Good luck.

[schist]

Try a Vruk pedal. No need to raise your leg with this tool because in rest position when you foot comes down, the beater is naturally pulled away from the head. Remarkable design in that it makes the most efficient use of your body's energy. Because your feet are always planted ( the twisting ankle motion is the basis for movement ), you can play faster, and longer with much less energy use and it alleviates much of the need to coordinate your feet ( which can cause the pulling on your back with one foot up, the other down, etc. ). Plus the expressive energy this tool houses will literally blow you away and will change your entire paradigm as to how you view the drums can be played. It did for me. I am not the same drummer anymore. The contrast is remarkable.

The dude who designed this tool is an absolute genius. My hats off to him.


Thanks for the help dude, but ... uh ... I'm quite happy with my Axis X Shortboard double pedal, no gimmicks.

[dea]

The Vruk is not a gimmick my friend. It takes years to master. It will help your bass drum technique and your back. It does nothing for you. It does, however, provide a means to use your heel in a more effective way ( it will not do this for you ) and with less energy. Because of its design, you can clamp your feet down permanently on the pedal+vruk combo which really helps your back and the coordination between your other foot.

[schist]

The Vruk is not a gimmick my friend. It takes years to master. It will help your bass drum technique and your back. It does nothing for you. It does, however, provide a means to use your heel in a more effective way ( it will not do this for you ) and with less energy. Because of its design, you can clamp your feet down permanently on the pedal+vruk combo which really helps your back and the coordination between your other foot.

Yeah, but I've been doing the exercises Jeff suggested further up, and I'm fine now. I don't wanna attach something to my pedals which I'm probably never gonna use.

So in a way, thanks but no thanks, ya dig?

[DamoSyzygy]

The further fwd you lean, the higher the centre of gravity is transferred into your back.

If you are upright, the centre of gravity is in your butt, so you wont notice any pain, but if you are even slightly forward, your lower back works overtime trying to hold your torso up!

Stay upright and be kind to your back. Use a mirror if you need to.

[dea]

Please talk to your doctor. A Sports Medicine practitioner is a good resource. Bring your chair and set it up at their office. Show them what your doing. Show them everything including how you hold your sticks.