Rosewood Drums

[ZDrums24]

I am thinking of building a concert snare drum with in the next few years and I have noticed a few drum companies have been building them out of rosewood (the same wood high end marimba/xylo bars are made out of). Does any one know what the sonic qualities of this wood is compared to the standard species like maple?

While I am at it, does anybody know what the pros/cons of stave drums are?

What I am really aiming for is a very aggressive, articulate sound with a fair amount of darkness to it.

Current thoughts for the drum, if you are interested: rosewood stave shell, possibly stained to a deep reddish hue with high gloss top coat and two 1/4" air vents - 14"x7 or 8" with tube lugs, die cast hoops, and a pearl triad strainer. I am modeling this after the steam bent noble and cooley maple concert snare we have at the music school.

[Tamascb10]

Well, Bubinga is African rosewood. Maybe it sounds like bubinga?

Oh, but a very agressive snare would be an oak snare, I guess.

[Deathmetalconga]

I am thinking of building a concert snare drum with in the next few years and I have noticed a few drum companies have been building them out of rosewood (the same wood high end marimba/xylo bars are made out of). Does any one know what the sonic qualities of this wood is compared to the standard species like maple?

While I am at it, does anybody know what the pros/cons of stave drums are?

What I am really aiming for is a very aggressive, articulate sound with a fair amount of darkness to it.

Current thoughts for the drum, if you are interested: rosewood stave shell, possibly stained to a deep reddish hue with high gloss top coat and two 1/4" air vents - 14"x7 or 8" with tube lugs, die cast hoops, and a pearl triad strainer. I am modeling this after the steam bent noble and cooley maple concert snare we have at the music school.

Rosewood is often used for claves because it's hard and makes a bright sound. I would thing rosewood stave drums would combine the projection and articulation of a dense wood with the richness of parallel-grain construction and very little glue. Sounds like it will be a great drum.

[ZDrums24]

Rosewood is often used for claves because it's hard and makes a bright sound.

Good point. But at the same time, marimbas can be extremely dark, so my real question I guess is which timbre is more likely to come out when it comes to being a drum?

And when it comes to the characteristics of staves, The only real high quality concert snare I have played is the aforementioned N&C drum, which is a thin solid maple shell with reinforcement rings, which gives the player a ton of richness and body to the tone. This is also the only solid shell drum I have played. I have never played a stave drum (other than congas and the like). I know in the plywood world, thicker shells mean a preference for higher tunings. The thinnest stave shells I've seen online are 1/2" thick, which is probably substantially thicker than the N&C shell, so would a stave snare prefer to be tuned higher (or have more 'highs' in the tone)?

[Unix]

Not at all, a stave vibrate far more then a ply or steam bend, the natural tone of the shell is lower then the 2 other you mention, so either way they can be tune high or low and still have a very snesitive, powerfull and warm tone.

Pro and con:

Pro - I think its by far one of the best construction method for sound travelling. It required a very little amount of glue, and the wood isd not altered in any way.

cons - Since it's a hardwood drum, it is very sensible to moisture and dry air. Think of it like a very high priced violon, you have to be a litle more carefull with these drums.

Despite this, you should try one, 5 minutes would be enough to convince you.

[ZDrums24]

Thanks for the explanation. It really helps. Now I need to find a rosewood drum or someone who has played one...

[ZDrums24]

This is directed at DeathMetalConga

Actually, I just remembered that I have a set of clave carved and painted in Australia (a gift from my world traveling grandparents) made from Ironwood tucked away in the basement somewhere. If the timbre of the rosewood clave is darker than the ironwood clave, then one could assume that the rosewood would make a darker snare, correct? So then I'd have to ask you if you could guess the location of ironwood on the sonic grid of wood types based on the sound of your ironwood kit. I know that your kit is pretty unique in more ways than just the shell material, so that could make it hard to isolate exactly what gives your drums their color, but a little insight might help. Just because of the fact that both are used for very similar purposes (furniture, clave, etc), I am assuming they must share some common traits as timber in general.

I appreciate the attention this query has gathered. Thanks guys.

[katman]

Don't know if you know Lignum Drums in Belgium - they make stave snares and kits. About halfway down this page is a video clip of a guy playing a Honduran Rosewood kit. I reckon it's just about the best sounding set of drums I've heard.

http://www.lignumdrums.com/en/snaresAndDrums.php

[ZDrums24]

I have never heard of these guys (I seem to be saying that alot lately...)

I know live recording isnt the best for judging drums, but these sorta sound like a warmer version of oak to me.

[Deathmetalconga]

This is directed at DeathMetalConga
Actually, I just remembered that I have a set of clave carved and painted in Australia (a gift from my world traveling grandparents) made from Ironwood tucked away in the basement somewhere. If the timbre of the rosewood clave is darker than the ironwood clave, then one could assume that the rosewood would make a darker snare, correct? So then I'd have to ask you if you could guess the location of ironwood on the sonic grid of wood types based on the sound of your ironwood kit. I know that your kit is pretty unique in more ways than just the shell material, so that could make it hard to isolate exactly what gives your drums their color, but a little insight might help. Just because of the fact that both are used for very similar purposes (furniture, clave, etc), I am assuming they must share some common traits as timber in general.

I appreciate the attention this query has gathered. Thanks guys.

Thanks for the interest in ironwood drums.

Hardness is only part of it. Shell construction method is another huge factor. Usually, when you get a harder wood, you get projection and attack but sacrifice warmth and resonance. In a solid shell or stave drum, the grains of wood all run together and act as micro-resonators, giving the drums incredible warmth and resonance, even when a hard wood is used.

That's because plywood construction reduces the efficiency of vibration in a couple of ways. First, cross laminating the veneers helps absorb and disperse vibration. Also, glue dampens the vibration a bit. This is neither good nor bad, just an aspect of plywood construction.

In a whole wood kit (stave or solid), sound is immediately conducted from the top bearing edge, down through the shell, into the resonating chamber and down to the bottom bearing edge. Very little sound is lost to cross-lamination, internal material friction and glue. Everything you put in the drum, you get back out of it. Each grain acts as a tiny micro-resonator, influencing the sound of the grain next to it, creating powerful but subtle tones that add richness to the sound. The downside is that tuning is time-consuming and the drums have incredible character and presence, which is not always good when the drums need to be more in the background. Listen to samples at www.spiritdrums.com.

I don't know what the specific gravity of rosewood is. Cooktown ironwood has an SG of 1.2, meaning it is 1.2 times as dense as water. Anything below 1 floats and anything above 1 sinks. Maple is around 0.6 and loses density when it's made into ply. If you find the specific gravity of seasoned rosewood, that will answer some of your questions and give you a basis for comparison.

Just keep in mind that density, grain structure and shell construction all play a role in the sound qualities of a shell (then there's tuning, head types and stick types). I think a rosewood stave shell would have a very dark, rich sound, especially if it was deeper.

[ZDrums24]

I actually found an interesting source of information in a lumber mill's website: http://www.hearnehardwoods.com/hardwoods/exotic_hardwoods/exotic_hardwoods.html

According to these guys, Belizean Rosewood (I'm going to make a jump and say this is pretty closely related to Honduran Rosewood since the countries are right next to each other geographically and since the pictures resemble the the wood used in the marimba we have up here).

Really, it seems that rosewood is a very hard and heavy wood, but it still has a strong low end response, so I'm going to see how much a shell of this stuff is going to cost.

[Skitch]

I am thinking of building a concert snare drum with in the next few years and I have noticed a few drum companies have been building them out of rosewood (the same wood high end marimba/xylo bars are made out of). Does any one know what the sonic qualities of this wood is compared to the standard species like maple?

While I am at it, does anybody know what the pros/cons of stave drums are?

What I am really aiming for is a very aggressive, articulate sound with a fair amount of darkness to it.

Current thoughts for the drum, if you are interested: rosewood stave shell, possibly stained to a deep reddish hue with high gloss top coat and two 1/4" air vents - 14"x7 or 8" with tube lugs, die cast hoops, and a pearl triad strainer. I am modeling this after the steam bent noble and cooley maple concert snare we have at the music school.

You could have Jimmy Ford at Ford drums build you a Rosewood drum! They had a whole set on display at the NAMM show.


Mike

http://www.mikemccraw.com
http://www.dominoretroplate.com

http://www.youtube.com/drummermikemccraw
http://www.myspace.com/drummermikemccraw

[Deathmetalconga]

I actually found an interesting source of information in a lumber mill's website: http://www.hearnehardwoods.com/hardwoods/exotic_hardwoods/exotic_hardwoods.html

According to these guys, Belizean Rosewood (I'm going to make a jump and say this is pretty closely related to Honduran Rosewood since the countries are right next to each other geographically and since the pictures resemble the the wood used in the marimba we have up here).

Really, it seems that rosewood is a very hard and heavy wood, but it still has a strong low end response, so I'm going to see how much a shell of this stuff is going to cost.

A hard wood like rosewood will naturally tend to be louder, brighter and more articulate than a soft wood like mahogany. That's why they're used for claves, where the completely solid sticks bring out the most cutting sound. That's also why hard woods are used for marimbas - it's the resonators below the marimbas that bring out the great depth and resonance.

To get a hard wood to sound darker and mellower, you have to rely on shell construction and heads. A stave construction like you're looking at will give you the darkness and resonance you're looking for, but with the natural punch and roar of a hard wood. I think using a very hard wood in stave or solid shell construction gives you the best of all worlds.

[ZDrums24]

I found another source by complete accident.

http://www.drumsolo.cc/snare_drums/snare_gallery/Braz_Rosewood/braz_rosewood.htm

[TwentyEightyFive]

I am thinking of building a concert snare drum with in the next few years and I have noticed a few drum companies have been building them out of rosewood (the same wood high end marimba/xylo bars are made out of). Does any one know what the sonic qualities of this wood is compared to the standard species like maple?

While I am at it, does anybody know what the pros/cons of stave drums are?

What I am really aiming for is a very aggressive, articulate sound with a fair amount of darkness to it.

Current thoughts for the drum, if you are interested: rosewood stave shell, possibly stained to a deep reddish hue with high gloss top coat and two 1/4" air vents - 14"x7 or 8" with tube lugs, die cast hoops, and a pearl triad strainer. I am modeling this after the steam bent noble and cooley maple concert snare we have at the music school.


I personally like stave drums over anyother type of drum. They sound great and even better, there is almost no limit to tonal qualities.

Check out TP Drums: www.tpdrums.com

His site will tell you all there is to know about stave drums. I played a concert snare he made and it sounds amazing, hands down the best I've played.
If you email him with the exact sound you're looking for, he'll tell you exactly what type of wood you should use.

I got a solid walnut stave drum from him and it is the best investment i've ever made.