Cocktail Kit Bass Drum/Foor Tom

[Joe P]

I have one question for those of you who are knowledged in cocktail drums. When I played the bass drum in marching band, I was told that you shouldn't hit both sides at once because the vibrations counteract. And it DID sound bad when you hit both sides. My question is this: how does it sound when you hit the floor tom with a stick and with the pedal at the same time, or rather, CAN you hit them (the floor tom and the "bass drum") at the same time and get a good sound out of the drum?

[Deathmetalconga]

I am a cocktail kit fan and someday hope to have one.

You raise a valid issue and I'd like to hear from cocktail players. I think, however, that the deeper the drum is, the less of an issue head counteraction would be, and cocktail kits are usually about twice as deep as they are wide.

[harryconway]

Check out Glenn Kotche and "Monkey Chant". His Modern Drummer performance on this kit http://glennkotche.com/technical.php is amazing. He uses his 14" floor tom as a kick and floor tom. I'm doing basically the same thing with a Ludwig 18" floor tom that I have. I haven't played it enough to really find a problem yet. With the top tuned higher than the bottom, and two completely different head types on either end, I don't see much of a problem. That, combined with the fact that I rarely play my floor and kick simultaneously on a conventional kick, can't see it as being much of an issue.

[joeybeats]

Check out Glenn Kotche and "Monkey Chant". His Modern Drummer performance on this kit http://glennkotche.com/technical.php is amazing. He uses his 14" floor tom as a kick and floor tom. I'm doing basically the same thing with a Ludwig 18" floor tom that I have. I haven't played it enough to really find a problem yet. With the top tuned higher than the bottom, and two completely different head types on either end, I don't see much of a problem. That, combined with the fact that I rarely play my floor and kick simultaneously on a conventional kick, can't see it as being much of an issue.

Wow, what a performance on the MD 2006 dvd, Harry. I just watched it. Never heard of that guy and never saw anything quite like that performance before. I never noticed his section on the dvd before, passed right over it. Absolutely fascinating. Thanks for bringing it to my attention. This guy has talent. Joey

[khanedeliac]

and cocktail kits are usually about twice as deep as they are wide.

Often is the case, but my cocktail kit comprises a 16W x 14D Bass Drum and a 13x11 Floor.
I dont really know why you would want to hit the bass drum on both sides? Or are you speaking of a case where your floortom IS your bass drum?
As far as seperate drums the (floor and kick) being played simultaneously, I think it has a nice 'clash' of tones...

Again, not entirely sure what you are asking and why you would want to hit a drum on both sides at once?

[Deathmetalconga]

Often is the case, but my cocktail kit comprises a 16W x 14D Bass Drum and a 13x11 Floor.
I dont really know why you would want to hit the bass drum on both sides? Or are you speaking of a case where your floortom IS your bass drum?
As far as seperate drums the (floor and kick) being played simultaneously, I think it has a nice 'clash' of tones...

Again, not entirely sure what you are asking and why you would want to hit a drum on both sides at once?

Classic cocktail kits do hit both sides of the drum. They have one drum that stands up; this drum is usually 16 to 14 inches in diameter and at least two feet tall. You usually stand to play a cocktail set. A modified foot pedal hits the bottom head upwards, to act as a bass drum. The top surface is there to serve as a floor tom or snare. There are usually other smaller drums and cymbals mounted to the drum near the top head.

It sounds like you have a small bass and floor tom that you play seated. If so, that's not a true cocktail set in the strict sense, although it might fit in the kinds of venues where you'd use a true cocktail set.

Do a google photo search and you'll see what I mean.

[Ozzy Biz]

Classic cocktail kits do hit both sides of the drum. They have one drum that stands up; this drum is usually 16 to 14 inches in diameter and at least two feet tall. You usually stand to play a cocktail set. A modified foot pedal hits the bottom head upwards, to act as a bass drum. The top surface is there to serve as a floor tom or snare. There are usually other smaller drums and cymbals mounted to the drum near the top head.

It sounds like you have a small bass and floor tom that you play seated. If so, that's not a true cocktail set in the strict sense, although it might fit in the kinds of venues where you'd use a true cocktail set.

Do a google photo search and you'll see what I mean.

I've seen 'standing' cocktail kits similar to Khans, where the kick and tom are both mounted vertically, one on top of the other. Essentially, you play it exactly the same as a traditional kick/floor kit, but you have a seperate tom and kick.

[Metrodrum]

Im my experience of building Cocktail Kits exclusively, the problem of hitting both sides does exist. I have found venting will make a major difference in the ability to produce great tone from both sides on the main drum, generally 24 inches deep. 2 vents @ the nodal on the kick side, and one at the floor tom side is what I usually do. On a straight up Clubster model, where a full length snare bed runs under the top head, the bass is vented with two (sometimes three) one inch holes, and the snare also gets 2- 1" vents
this seems to eliminate backpressure, and combined with a isolation baffle - virtually eliminates cross talk 'tween the two.

Head selection certainly makes a difference, I've found that Evans Hydralics on the kick, and G1, or G2 on the top work well, as does tuning the drum correctly. On a snare/kick
usually a thinner coated head to get better sensitivity. Snare/Kicks are a tradeoff at best,
and generally I try to steer customers into a side snare.

In playing situations, I've never had the drum sound bad hitting both heads, and recently a
kit went to a player using a reversed DW double kick pedal on a 16x24 main drum.

Just my 2cents

Metro....

[eddiehimself]

I have one question for those of you who are knowledged in cocktail drums. When I played the bass drum in marching band, I was told that you shouldn't hit both sides at once because the vibrations counteract. And it DID sound bad when you hit both sides. My question is this: how does it sound when you hit the floor tom with a stick and with the pedal at the same time, or rather, CAN you hit them (the floor tom and the "bass drum") at the same time and get a good sound out of the drum?

the problem is that the bass side will be pushing the sound up and the top side will be pushing the sound down so when they meet in the middle they'll cancel each other's motion out. Venting would allow the sound to escape before they met in the middle and having a bigger length drum would give the soundwaves enough room to spread before they XXXXXXXXXXXxeach other up too much.