Charlie Watts

[Vinnysimmo]

Forgive me if there already is a thread on him, but i could not find one.

Another of my favorite drummers. He has (IMO) sublime taste and groove when playing.

Any other fans of his on these boards?

[Vinnysimmo]

Noone?...............

[Disco Stu]

Thanks for starting this thread. It's a shame there wasn't one already. Yes, Charlie is a great drummer, a great musician, very groovy, and an integral part of the sound of the Stones. When I get the time, I plan to line up my Stones tunes and really study what Charlie's doing.

[harryconway]

The thing I love the "most" about Charlie is he's been playing the same drum kit for 46 years (or so).

[Jeremy Bender]

Hard to imagine their music without his playing.

[Vinnysimmo]

Hard to imagine their music without his playing.

Couldn't have said it better meself.

[Disco Stu]

The thing I love the "most" about Charlie is he's been playing the same drum kit for 46 years (or so).
I didn't know that, but it is pretty cool. I guess he found something he liked and stuck with it. I imagine it also helps to make his drumming instantly recognizable.

[gretsch223]

Charlie is my inspiration and the reason why I started drums...He doesn't have crazy chops like other guys, but his playing is simple and fits The Rolling Stones' music, well. He also has a passion for jazz and has numerous albums as a leader playing jazz.

[Minority Of One]

The thing I love the "most" about Charlie is he's been playing the same drum kit for 46 years (or so).

And aparently (i havent researched it) he doesent actually have any cymbal endorsements?

ive heard that he just uses any cymbals that he finds and likes

[aydee]

Thats really cool that he played the same kit. Says something about the man..

[Leadfoot]

Charlie is a great drummer. No, he doesn't display blazing chops & he can't play 1200 beats per minute on his kick drum, he doesn't have to, he's Charlie Watts. He plays for the music & does it better than most. There is much to learn from him & his playing style.

[Postlethwaite Windschitl]

Sorry, guys, but Charlie used Ludwigs until around Dec. 1966/Jan. 1967. He also used matched grip at that time.

When he switched drums to Gretsch, he also switched from matched to traditional grip. Apparently he got inspired by his jazz roots to switch drums and grips.

Check out photographs of the Stones before '67 and you'll see it: Ludwigs and matched grip. In Bill Wyman's "Rolling with the Stones" and in the compilation book "According to the Rolling Stones," there are multiple pictures of Charlie before he became the Gretsch man we all know and love.

Personally, I think his definitive drumming came after the switch.

PW

[harryconway]

Yes, as I've delved into "Uncle Charlie" kit history a bit more, seems like he started out on Premiers (like most UK drummers), but jumped to Ludwigs as soon as he could. Had a Black Ludwig kit, and a Black Diamond Pearl kit. And picked up Gretsch, like PW states, 66-67. That makes his Gretsch kit already 10 years old when he got it.

[GRUNTERSDAD]

Thats really cool that he played the same kit. Says something about the man..

About the man and the Gretsch.

[harryconway]

About the man and the Gretsch.

Indeed, he probably could have had his pick of "any new set" from "any number of manufactures" and he opted to bang on a "used" Gretsch kit.

[joeybeats]

Get Off Of My Cloud, The Last Time, Lets Spend The Night Together, Paint It Black, I Can't Get No Satisfaction, Under My Thumb, Ruby Tuesday, Sympathy For The Devil, Street Fighting Man ... and on and on and on. Man, the guy invented perfect rock & roll drumming. You young guys, run and download those songs. This stuff is R&R 101. Joey

[Rick_Strong]

Just watched Four Flicks (Stadium and Arena), Watts certainly holds the band together.

[goughy]

I've heard a story where when Mick and Keith wanna tour they ring Charlie; he'll say no so they don't tour. Next year they try again and he'll go 'yes' and they're off. The other is that it's Charlie that has managed to keep the band together for all these years. He seems the suave gentleman off the kit, and on the kit too!

[The Keith Moon]

Yes, I like Charley Watts as well.
Keith Moon and Charley Watts, both extremes to me.
I like Charley because with just one tom tom he does very creative, but simple licks as well suited for the stones music.... and he is not flashy either... has in depth quality.
I have never seen him playing solos

...... to me drum solos are boring.

Keith Moon is the only drummer I have seen playing with the music , actually doing " solos" through out the song, which seems so brilliant.

[Roeder]

Watts has this great "lift" thing he does with his right hand on certain beats, just on the back beat he'll throw in this 1/4 note pause that opens up the sound and makes the snare hit more up front and not buried with the hats. Very tasteful and subtle.

[Tom Sawyer]

Very nice person, and grooving drummer.

[The Keith Moon]

Watts has this great "lift" thing he does with his right hand on certain beats, just on the back beat he'll throw in this 1/4 note pause that opens up the sound and makes the snare hit more up front and not buried with the hats. Very tasteful and subtle.

Thats how I started to play and still play.

[Pocketman]

A couple of years ago I got to visit the DW factory and they showed me a picture of Charlie Watts playing Terry Bozzio's monsterous kit. Needless to say it was a very funny!

[slingerland755]

A couple of years ago I got to visit the DW factory and they showed me a picture of Charlie Watts playing Terry Bozzio's monsterous kit. Needless to say it was a very funny!

I would love to see that pic.

[Muckster]

Yeah, Charlie is great. The reason i first bought a china type cymbal was because of his playing on "She's So Cold."

[Ian Williams]

I like to play on drums: Tumbling Dice, Midnight Rambler, Gimme Shelter.

All the Best,

[Pachikara-Tharakan]

Charley Watts is my favorite and inspiration from all the songs that I heard. I am a tabla player but I love the Rolling Stones and the way Charley plays along. Personally I like him for his modesty and simpler approach. He is my role model.

[jazzbo]

Yes, as I've delved into "Uncle Charlie" kit history a bit more, seems like he started out on Premiers (like most UK drummers), but jumped to Ludwigs as soon as he could. Had a Black Ludwig kit, and a Black Diamond Pearl kit. And picked up Gretsch, like PW states, 66-67. That makes his Gretsch kit already 10 years old when he got it.

I've read that Charlie switched to Gretsch in 1968 . Take a look at the cover of GET YOUR YA YAS OUT and you'll see him carrying a black Gretsch bass drum . He played this black kit for a few years before latching onto the natural maple 50's set he has been playing for years now . This kit was appropriated from S.I.R. recording studio in NYC in the 70's sometime . Apparently he was there for some recording , fell in love the sound of it , and made the studio an offer it couldn't refuse .

[mattsdrums]

man ... Charlie is one of my absolute faves - Not only does he drum from a crossfire hurricane, but check out those threads (I bet Saville Row has done alright out of him over the years!)!!

I've had the good fortune to see him not only with The Stones, but also with his quintet at a small London club and also a couple of times at Ronnie Scotts with his tentet. Always an absolute pleasure to hear him play! I was fortunate enough to meet him and have a chat at The 100 club & the man is so humble and genuinely surprised that HE has been any kind of influence on any drummer!

Love the '57 Gretsch's too. He has a fine collection of vintage drums I believe - including some real gems (Sonny Greer's Duke Ellington set ...bought from Steve Maxwell's in Chicago)..

[kwolf68]

While I don't like the drumming of Charlie Watts in the least, I must admit he's been there so long he's sorta like an institution. And at this stage in the game with the Stones now playing well into their 80s, it would be sad to see him replaced.

[Pachikara-Tharakan]

Almost anyone can play along Stones music, as long as the drummer doesnt show off with theatrical chops and all...... So technically, there wont be any difference if we hear a different drummer in Stones music, but to see the stones live without Watts is a sad thing, for millions of stones fans like me.

[onedevilsst]

Charlie talks you round his kit in this vid:
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=7PZug4854sI

Apprently bought the kit off company he had hired it off for a tour.

Love the Gretsch, have the same one in Cherry.

Incidentally never paid much attention to him until I saw the Scorsese film. I got hypnotised by his really weird style, now I cant get enough of Charlies' playing!!

[Pachikara-Tharakan]

His humbleness and self confidence.. thats what inspires me. He likes to be called as a band member, not a solo artist who gets hired for any type of music like Steve Gadd, who is a brilliant drummer.

Even though I am no way near Charley , I like to be like him, being a back seat guy who plays simply with a smaller kit.

[Pollyanna]

Charlie grooves ... and grooves

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MOncnLgS3tA

[Skulmoski]

There are few other drummers that I readlly admire and Charlie is in a league with few others. May you live to be one hundred with an extra year to repent!

Thanks for the beats Charlie!

GJS

[bonzolead]

Love Charlie Watts no flash,just cool my fav CW tune is "Can't you hear me knocking" great Stones tune you can hear the jazz influence for sure. too bad he looks like a mortician with a bunch of dead guys LMAO

Bonzolead

[larryace]

I feel bad for not jumping in the bandwagon here, but I have to be honest. I'm not crazy about his 8th note pause on the HH for the back beat, it sounds too tentative and uncontinuous to me. Sorry Charley. I don't dislike his playing, I do like his tone, but his playing just never tripped my trap. He does make the song work however.
He is a gentleman for sure, personally I like him better than his playing.
For simple styled drumming, I'll take Ringo every time. No disrespect to Charley. He's had a helluva ride.

[Pollyanna]

He is a gentleman for sure, personally I like him better than his playing.

How down-to-earth and humble is Charlie? This (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M1_6z9oqet8) much.

I really enjoyed this interview. The whole vid was well edited, flashing from Jazz You to his comments. Love it when he says drums are acoustically the loudest thing in a band, immediately followed by a snare WHACK

[boomstick]

When I read ads from bands/musicians searching for a drummer, time and time again I see Watts mentioned as the kind of drummer they are looking for. Songwriters love his style, because he always makes the song groove and he's never distracting or overbearing.

[DonVira]

Does anyone know why Charlie Watts doesn't hit the hi-hat and the snare at the same time?

[aydee]

Does anyone know why Charlie Watts doesn't hit the hi-hat and the snare at the same time?

Because he knows Watt he is doing?


...

[Pollyanna]

He's self-taught so it's probably something he stumbled on in the early days and it's still the most natural way for him to play. Maybe when he started off he didn't have the coordination? Or maybe it was easier for him to accent the 1-a and 3-a upbeats to get the beat bouncing? Maybe he liked the clean snare sound? I've never heard or read an explanation from him.

Self-taught players tend to have quirks about their playing. A lot of them are handicaps but every now and then someone like Charlie makes it work.

[harryconway]

He says he does it sub-consciously. Refer to interview 1990, Modern Drummer.

[Pollyanna]

This place is like an interactive drum encyclopaedia!

[toddy]

what a guy. typing a little extra because the message isn't..

[Deathmetalconga]

I notice some players do this because they have their hats on the left but play them with the right hand and they play the snare with the left hand. So, their right hand or stick may cross over and above the left hand or stick. If they have to hit the snare hard, they may have to lift their right hand up and out of the way, thereby making it impossible to play hats while they hit the snare that way.

[Pollyanna]

Good point, DMC. During Sydney's halcyon pub rock days in the 80s a lot of drummers were peppering their bands' sets with big money beats (eg. Rob Hirst of Midnight Oil), lifting the left hand high and pulling the RH out of the way.

[Deathmetalconga]

Good point, DMC. During Sydney's halcyon pub rock days in the 80s a lot of drummers were peppering their bands' sets with big money beats (eg. Rob Hirst of Midnight Oil), lifting the left hand high and pulling the RH out of the way.

Another thing I like about playing open handed (left hand on hats and ride, right hand on snare). You can raise either hand as high or as low as needed and they will never interfere with each other.

[muckypops]

maybe he's into linear drumming

[utdrummer]

I'll probably get flamed for saying this, but I noticed he did that years ago when I first started playing and could never figure out what the hang-up was. Why couldn't the drummer in the worlds greatest rock band make two sticks hit at the same time? I still don't get it. Is it laziness? Is it mental? I don't know what the basis is, but it is still annoying as hell to watch. It really takes away from the visual performance for me. People would call me out in a bar if I did it I'm sure.

[toddy]

Is it laziness? Is it mental? I don't know what the basis is, but it is still annoying as hell to watch. It really takes away from the visual performance for me. People would call me out in a bar if I did it I'm sure.

i'm sure when you are at the same 'level' as charlie watts no one will call you out anymore ;)

[Pollyanna]

I know what you're getting at, utdrummer. He can look at bit amateurish at times, yet his tracks don't sound amateurish at all.

Look at this clip: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MOncnLgS3tA. A very simple jam but he's sooo in the pocket from go to whoa, timing and tempo is spot on, the rimshot backbeat is always consistent, the kit sounds great, and every pattern he plays is appropriate.

That's what marks top players; they have the basics down so well that they can always be relied upon to provide a professional-sounding drum track, no matter what they do to get there. That's what most other musos want from us more than anything.

[Bernhard]

The Charlie Watts thing - leaving out the Hi-Hat when hitting the snare in a basic Rock pattern - is a kind of linear drumming, no?
It's a help in a real uptempo tune - so fast, that you can't hold the tempo with the right hand.

Now, Charlie had the idea to try it at slow tempos - as nobody else does - and it sounded cool cool cool - here we go....

Bernhard

[con struct]

I tried that once and it definitely makes for a different sound, although I found it to be really counter-intuitive.

[toddy]

in what way con struct? explain ^^

[timmdrum]

I read in some interview, maybe that 90 MD issue, that he started doing it sometime in the 70's because he simply liked how the snare sounded better without a hi-hat note hitting at the same time. A cursory listen to 60's Stones records reveals he clearly played more "normal" then. I do it when I play "Beast of Burden" and "Start Me Up", but not on "Honky Tonk Woman" and "Jumpin' Jack Flash".

[toddy]

personally i think linear drumming is awesome. breakbeat and the genres that utilize it today are so fun to play.

[harryconway]

One thing that Keltner pointed out to Charlie was his habit of coming off the hi-hat with his right hand whenever he would hit a backbeat with his left. "I was never conscious of it until Jim mentioned it," Charlie comments. "But I do it a lot. I've noticed it on videos, and it actually annoys me to see myself doing it. It really comes, I think, from coming down heavy on the backbeat. I don't use that grip that Ringo uses. I did for a few years, because I thought it was popular. But then I was told to go back to the other way by Ian Stewart, who used to set up my drums. He virtually ordered me to go back to what he called 'the proper way of playing,' " Charlie laughs. "So I went back to the military grip, and I really do prefer it, but because of the amount you ride on the hi-hat, I suppose I got in the habit of pulling the other stick out of the way to get a louder sound."I've never consciously done it, but a lot of times when we make a record I am consciously not doing it......"as quoted from Modern Drummer, Feb. 1990.

[Bernhard]

One thing that Keltner pointed out to Charlie was his habit of coming off the hi-hat with his right hand whenever he would hit a backbeat with his left. "I was never conscious of it until Jim mentioned it," Charlie comments. "But I do it a lot. I've noticed it on videos, and it actually annoys me to see myself doing it. It really comes, I think, from coming down heavy on the backbeat. I don't use that grip that Ringo uses. I did for a few years, because I thought it was popular. But then I was told to go back to the other way by Ian Stewart, who used to set up my drums. He virtually ordered me to go back to what he called 'the proper way of playing,' " Charlie laughs. "So I went back to the military grip, and I really do prefer it, but because of the amount you ride on the hi-hat, I suppose I got in the habit of pulling the other stick out of the way to get a louder sound."I've never consciously done it, but a lot of times when we make a record I am consciously not doing it......"as quoted from Modern Drummer, Feb. 1990.

Great post - but well, be sure:
Charlie was never as naive as it comes over here.
Take it as british understatement...and we can't see when reading the wink wink in his eyes during this interview...lol

Problem came up when recording Carol - a really fast tune. That was just a little too fast for Charlie, so they also put in a heavy handclapping and faded out finally - duration only two minutes and some.... Of course these times was no Pro Tools and Sequenzing around... Rumour goes, that also another drummer was engaged...

In this video you see (..playback), that he mimiks a simple jazz swing groove ( around 0:35) - not to compare with the steady hi-hat and backbeat on the orignal Stones recording:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PDUoOZwv5QU

Later on, they played it much slower, here:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QI7t3kQLf0s

Then he found the trick!!!!

Bernhard

[A-customs]

I feel bad for not jumping in the bandwagon here, but I have to be honest. I'm not crazy about his 8th note pause on the HH for the back beat, it sounds too tentative and uncontinuous to me. Sorry Charley. I don't dislike his playing, I do like his tone, but his playing just never tripped my trap. He does make the song work however.
He is a gentleman for sure, personally I like him better than his playing.
For simple styled drumming, I'll take Ringo every time. No disrespect to Charley. He's had a helluva ride.

Im with you larry..Not that im bashing Charlie,but hes not my cup of tea...........

[Ian Williams]

Charlie with a "maraca" on his right hand lead at his peak and the whole band itself, performing Jumpin' Jack Flash live. Plus, Brian Jones on the guitar.

Check: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hxpfBWMOlOk&feature=related

[con struct]

I tried that once and it definitely makes for a different sound, although I found it to be really counter-intuitive.

in what way con struct? explain ^^

It's because ever since I began playing I've played the hats in the same way that I play the ride cymbal. When I play the hats my hands work together so I don't see any need to remove one beat or stroke with my right hand to "make room" for my left hand.

So trying it felt very strange and, I guess you could say, "not right." However, if you really take a close look at what various drummers do you can see that they all, we all, do things that work for us and us alone, no?

[tooold]

Charlie's my hero.

Not liking him is like not liking trees or hot dogs. Why bother?

[specgrade]

I read a story about once when Mick was drunk, late at night, in a hotel lobby and he kept yelling "WHERE'S MY DRUMMER??" He rang up to Charlie's room, where the man was sleeping, and told him to come down. Well, Charlie took a shower, shaved, put on some nice clothes and walked down to where Mick was, still yelling "WHERE'S _MY_ DRUMMER??", and punched him out and said "I'm not _your_ drummer, you are my singer!" and went back to his room.

I love Charlie!