For you who play minimum 230 bpm with feet

[bigfatbobby]

Hello, everyone!

I have had the Axis A double pedal (not the Longboards) for about a week now. I thought that things would go much easier with these pedals, than with my old DW 7000's. For drummers like Hellhammer, I'm sure the A-pedals are excellent. When I play now, I simply suck in playing fast, or just 180 and keeping it steady and relaxed. Often when I sit down to play, I feel terrible in my legs and get exhausted by nothing! It's so frustrating! I have worked purely on foot technique for the last week, 1-2 hours day, but things don't seem to work at all. I have also seen lessons and studied foot techniques by Derek Roddy, George Kollias and Jan Axel Blomberg without being able to do things myself at even lower speeds.

I want to know if some of you know anything about how I should practice and if you know what to do on days where your legs just feel terrible. I also wonder: Does playing extremely fast have to be considered as a sport where you must do stamina exercises every day? I personally find that approach very "undrummerish". If any of you know something about Jan Axel Blomberg's (aka. Hellhammer) technique, I would love to hear from you.

Thank's for your attention,

Felix

[gusty]

I have worked purely on foot technique for the last week, 1-2 hours day, but things don't seem to work at all. I have also seen lessons and studied foot techniques by Derek Roddy, George Kollias and Jan Axel Blomberg without being able to do things myself at even lower speeds.

If you mean you've only been really working on it for a week, you need to understand, these things take a long time. You really can't expect to get much done in a week. If not, then sorry for misunderstanding.

[schist]

Firstly, I hope you didn't just buy the Axis A pedals coz you thought you'd be able to play 240BPM 16ths no problem without any prior double-kick training. Coz that's something I hear quite a lot from idiotic 15-year-old n00bs on YouTube and other drumming forums and what not.

Secondly, it's a matter of adjusting to the pedal. 'gusty' hit the nail on the head - you can't just expect it all to happen within a week. It takes months, sometimes even years.

[bigfatbobby]

I know that! But I want to know HOW to practice. It doesn't feel good when you don't know if things are done right.

[gusty]

Oh ok.



I think getting it up to speed is the last thing you want to do, because you won't get quick by working on just speed. First learn the basic technique -- letting the beater rebound when playing heel up and heel down -- with both feet. Work it slowly up to a level where it's all consistent and totally relaxed and effortless. Work on some Stick Control exercises slowly, make it accurate and make it groove. Always practice carefully and meticulously -- you can never be too critical about your technique and consistency -- and you'll notice that playing faster stuff becomes easier. Long periods of slow practice -> accuracy, consistency, power, endurance -> speed.



Thats a quote from wavelength from a thread that i created back when i was asking about double bass.

[joeysnare]

good stuff from wavelength,lots of practice is needed.im in that catagory you speak of well not quite that fast lol but yeah it took a while to get that fast i did it by just keeping my legs static and just using my ankles,and it took just about as long to get it accurate. if you need more help with this go to "the man" tim waterson belive me he knows about going fast while saving energy. good luck and keep practicing.

[bigfatbobby]

Thanks for the useful info! But when it comes to technique; Hellhammer, who I personally think has one of the best bass drum techniques, does not use the heel toe. To me, it seems that too many drummers chose the Longboards just because of f. ex. Waterson, Kollias or Roddy. I am not criticizing the Longboards, or the drummers I mentioned, but I tend to think that too many drummers are blended by the Longboards and also the heel/toe method. I have read comments where drummers say that it's amazing how George Kollias can do 270 night after night - and of course it is! But I seldom hear any comments about Blomberg, who does over 290 live. That's why I am very interested in what he does on his regular A pedals - and at least when he does not use the heel/toe!

I still wonder: Does extreme drumming always have to be considered as a sport where you must do stamina exercises every day to maintain high speed?

Thanks,

Felix

[jamndrummer]

bigfatbobby,

This takes alot of patience and practice to achieve as others have mentioned. I recommend that you take this book and work out all the patterns. Once you become stronger, work them at faster tempo's. This is a great cordination book for feet.

Good luck and Keep Sheddin the Wood!

[Therma lobsterdore]

Actually I've seen Blomberg mentioned quite a few times around here, his heel/toe 290bhp rolls are very impressive but there are other drummers out there that can hit that speed, and can exceed it, Kolias and Roddy get lots respect because there are only a handful of people that can hit 260-270bhp with just single strokes.

Anywho I'm in a similar boat to you bigfatbobby, my personal experience has been that my right foot after years of single pedal work can go at high speeds all day, but my left is just pathetic and thats whats holding me back for definate.

[Big_Philly]

What helps is play 16th with your hands, and play them along with your feet. That will develop good timing and muscle memory. But it will still take months. Start slow, 80 to 90 bpm and work it up as soon as you KNOW you're comfortable at a certain speed.

[Therma lobsterdore]

You might wanna try Derek Roddy's stamina/endurance/coordination exercises too, they clearly worked for him! I've only been doing them for a short while though.

Pick a comfortable metronome speed, I usually do 180bpm (in 8th's) on my hands and 140bpm on my feet.

Hands - 10 minutes in total, 2 minutes each exercise

4 strokes each hand
8 strokes each hand
12 strokes each hand
16 strokes each hand
Finish with a single stroke roll

Try to pause for a few seconds between each exercise.

Ok then do the same for your feet, so that's 20 minutes so far.

Next is coordination, I usually do this at 180bpm (in 8th's), this is 8 minutes in total, 2 minutes each exercise

Do a single stroke roll between your right hand and right foot
Then right hand and left foot
Left hand and right foot
Left hand and left foot

You can then finish off with a whole body roll, it goes right hand - right foot - left hand- left foot and repeat, so that brings it up to 30 minutes.

[II xMETALx II]

Wavelength thanks for the inspiration :)

Iv been practicing with my left foot for the last two weeks very strongly. I used to play with both feet and try to achieve fast speeds, but after much stress and frustration, i came to the conclusion that i was getting nowhere. It seems everyone is in the same boat, their left foot is weaker than their right, or vise-versa.

Atm im practicing at 120bpm with my left foot for about 5 minutes, then i move onto paradiddles with both feet, then single-strokes.

Through my practice i finally understand why my left foot cannot keep up. It is because my left foot cannot achieve the motion that my right can, which basically is using the leg and ankle at the same time to create momentum type thing. Its hard to explain, but my left foot simply cannot do it. When i first began playing drums, i never went out of my way to achieve this motion with my right foot, it just developed over time. Hopefully, this will be the case with my left foot as well.

I understand it takes time, but it certainly is a frustrating process.

[brennenlesser]

Thanks for the useful info! But when it comes to technique; Hellhammer, who I personally think has one of the best bass drum techniques, does not use the heel toe. To me, it seems that too many drummers chose the Longboards just because of f. ex. Waterson, Kollias or Roddy. I am not criticizing the Longboards, or the drummers I mentioned, but I tend to think that too many drummers are blended by the Longboards and also the heel/toe method. I have read comments where drummers say that it's amazing how George Kollias can do 270 night after night - and of course it is! But I seldom hear any comments about Blomberg, who does over 290 live. That's why I am very interested in what he does on his regular A pedals - and at least when he does not use the heel/toe!

I still wonder: Does extreme drumming always have to be considered as a sport where you must do stamina exercises every day to maintain high speed?

Thanks,

Felix

It's time to hit the chop factory bro!

*your home work*

do 100 count of four strokes on each leg then increase the bpms by 2 or 3. it'll be boring at first but eventually you'll hit a BPM that'll take a lot of work to get passed. give it 2hours a day, more if you can!

do this with the toe heel technique *the push pull version with the feet*, swivel, heel down, and heel up.
chart it out over the next 3 months.

in 3 months you'll have to record! Good luck

[bigfatbobby]

It's time to hit the chop factory bro!

*your home work*

do 100 count of four strokes on each leg then increase the bpms by 2 or 3. it'll be boring at first but eventually you'll hit a BPM that'll take a lot of work to get passed. give it 2hours a day, more if you can!

do this with the toe heel technique *the push pull version with the feet*, swivel, heel down, and heel up.
chart it out over the next 3 months.

in 3 months you'll have to record! Good luck

Mr, you made my day! I practiced heel up for two hours, and it felt great! But do I always have to start at low tempos in order to play fast? When I am doing these exercises, am I learning the motion or training muscles?

Thanks,

Felix

[II xMETALx II]

It's time to hit the chop factory bro!

*your home work*

do 100 count of four strokes on each leg then increase the bpms by 2 or 3. it'll be boring at first but eventually you'll hit a BPM that'll take a lot of work to get passed. give it 2hours a day, more if you can!

do this with the toe heel technique *the push pull version with the feet*, swivel, heel down, and heel up.
chart it out over the next 3 months.

in 3 months you'll have to record! Good luck

hmm this sounds interesting i might give it a go

[schist]

in 3 months you'll have to record! Good luck

HAHA Pete Sandoval reference?

[Jeff Almeyda]

Mr, you made my day! I practiced heel up for two hours, and it felt great! But do I always have to start at low tempos in order to play fast? When I am doing these exercises, am I learning the motion or training muscles?

Thanks,

Felix

You are both training the muscles and ingraining the motion into your nervous system. That's why it's best to practice at a moderate tempo. You do it correctly for extended periods of time and you see results.

I suggest you pick up a copy of Mike Mangini's Rhythm Knowledge (Vol I especially). Mike details HOW to practice for fastest results. It will change your drumming forever.

[brennenlesser]

Mr, you made my day! I practiced heel up for two hours, and it felt great! But do I always have to start at low tempos in order to play fast? When I am doing these exercises, am I learning the motion or training muscles?

Thanks,

Felix

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IFVxkY8ubcs

check out those techniques

and yes fast to slow

[dea]

I only dream of those speeds. Teehee...

[Deathmetalconga]

If you mean you've only been really working on it for a week, you need to understand, these things take a long time. You really can't expect to get much done in a week. If not, then sorry for misunderstanding.

It depends on the equipment and your skills. There aren't very many people who could do 230 bpm with one foot, although I'm sure someone could if they really set their mind to it and worked at it for years. Double pedals are one shortcut, but those take lots of dedication also.

I do 230 bpm with one foot on my Duallist. It took me a few weeks of practice to get to that point, where I could do that smoothly and consistently. Instead of training your left foot to do something new, it involves using right-foot skills that any proficient player should already have and that are just waiting to be tapped.

[brennenlesser]

It depends on the equipment and your skills. There aren't very many people who could do 230 bpm with one foot, although I'm sure someone could if they really set their mind to it and worked at it for years. Double pedals are one shortcut, but those take lots of dedication also.

I do 230 bpm with one foot on my Duallist. It took me a few weeks of practice to get to that point, where I could do that smoothly and consistently. Instead of training your left foot to do something new, it involves using right-foot skills that any proficient player should already have and that are just waiting to be tapped.

duallist? blech....lol, i hate those things. sry bro no offense.

[Deathmetalconga]

duallist? blech....lol, i hate those things. sry bro no offense.

None taken. I feel the same way about double pedals.

[schist]

duallist? blech....lol, i hate those things. sry bro no offense.

Agreed. The Duallist sounds like a gimmick to me.

It could be useful, however, if you wanna be a double-kick master and only have one leg ...

[Deathmetalconga]

Agreed. The Duallist sounds like a gimmick to me.

It could be useful, however, if you wanna be a double-kick master and only have one leg ...

Double pedals are a gimmick as well - just one that has more endorsers and more marketing. Many view them as a shortcut to single pedal skills.

The Duallist is not meant to take the place of a double pedal anyway. It is meant to expand what you are able to do with one foot, assuming you have the skill to control it. I have my left foot operating a hihat, two percussion pedals and sometimes a variable-pitch drum pedal. I have no room or desire to get my left foot to do what my right foot does fine already.

If someone has put hundreds of hours into training their feet for double pedals, I could see how they'd view the Duallist as a gimmick. You'd have to actually try one to have an informed opinion about what it can and cannot do. Plus, it's just a lot of fun to play. If you have good right foot skills, it will unlock all sorts of abilities you didn't know you had.

I can do at least 240 BPM indefinitely with it, which is why I posted to this thread. In the interests of keeping this thread on track, you might want to check out this lengthy and informative discussion about the most controversial item of drum gear ever: http://www.drummerworld.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1063

[dea]

I am saving for my dualist as we speak. This guy is really going to add some spice to my left side pedal arsenal.

[brennenlesser]

i sort of see it as a toy. nothing real. an excuse to not build the left foot. THEN AGAIN

drumming is not a sport. how you get your musical message or creativity across is all based on that person.

if it was a sport.....that's cheating !! lol

[Deathmetalconga]

i sort of see it as a toy. nothing real. an excuse to not build the left foot. THEN AGAIN

drumming is not a sport. how you get your musical message or creativity across is all based on that person.

if it was a sport.....that's cheating !! lol

Believe me, with the Duallist, my left foot has developed even more, as I can now play a wider variety of patterns and still keep my left foot free for my three foot percussion pedals and hihat. I have thought about getting one for the left foot, opening up new possibilities for foot percussion, but they're expensive.

It is really a single pedal with dual beater capability, NOT a double pedal that has been condensed into a single footboard. If you ever have the chance to try one out, I encourage you, as it would provide information to help guide your opinions. It is not harder than double pedal or easier than double pedal - just very, very different than any other way of using your right foot.

[brennenlesser]

Believe me, with the Duallist, my left foot has developed even more, as I can now play a wider variety of patterns and still keep my left foot free for my three foot percussion pedals and hihat. I have thought about getting one for the left foot, opening up new possibilities for foot percussion, but they're expensive.

It is really a single pedal with dual beater capability, NOT a double pedal that has been condensed into a single footboard. If you ever have the chance to try one out, I encourage you, as it would provide information to help guide your opinions. It is not harder than double pedal or easier than double pedal - just very, very different than any other way of using your right foot.

alright. i tried it once. i'll try it again.

[Knowthyself]

that is really fast...

i can only dream of playing this fast

http://www.woozyfly.com/?c=2676 -

[brennenlesser]

that is really fast...

i can only dream of playing this fast

http://www.woozyfly.com/?c=2676 -

omg! Lordi!! hahahaha i love lordi!

[drumr0]

that is really fast...

i can only dream of playing this fast

http://www.woozyfly.com/?c=2676 -


Is the drummer "The creature from the black lagoon" or "Alien?"

Some different stuff there!!

[brennenlesser]

you got to hear their old single "The Devil is a Loser and is my Bitch"

[joeysnare]

sorry if this is a bit off topic ,but conga ive never tried a dualist with enough practice can you get the same power at high speeds as you would with a double pedal? or does it just kind of buzz?

[Deathmetalconga]

sorry if this is a bit off topic ,but conga ive never tried a dualist with enough practice can you get the same power at high speeds as you would with a double pedal? or does it just kind of buzz?

The secondary Duallist pedal will never be as powerful as the secondary double pedal would be. However, for most applications, it will be powerful enough to work very well.

With the Duallist, you have one foot doing the work of two. Depending on how you have the tension set, it can be exhausting to play in dual mode.

[punkuzz900]

lmao, Schist's first comment was very true. Alot of n00bs just buying things because of a reputation and what other people say. Never buy something because of it's name, playing drums is not about who makes the best pedals/cymbals/sticks/drums/skins/etc, it's about making sure you play loud enough so that no one has to listen to those oh so lame same old guitar solos.

PS. I was acutually joking, although guitar solos are lame, don't play to drown them out...all we gotta do is sit back and just ride on that phat groove we lay down! Or whatever type of music you're playing...I'm just digging a hole now...

bye!

[schist]

lmao, Schist's first comment was very true. Alot of n00bs just buying things because of a reputation and what other people say. Never buy something because of it's name, playing drums is not about who makes the best pedals/cymbals/sticks/drums/skins/etc, it's about making sure you play loud enough so that no one has to listen to those oh so lame same old guitar solos.

PS. I was acutually joking, although guitar solos are lame, don't play to drown them out...all we gotta do is sit back and just ride on that phat groove we lay down! Or whatever type of music you're playing...I'm just digging a hole now...

bye!


Thank you.

I've been interested in Axis pedals since even before I knew all the death metal guys were using them.

But yeah - the whole "get axis longbords cuz dey make u go fast liek 266161#861610BPM even if u neva playd dbl kick b4 lolz" bulls**t, along with "duh triggers are cheating" and the like, are the scourge of drumming.