Weak Hands....

[ZildjianMan1023]

As i noticed ihave been drumming more and more these past few years


i have week hands..


i mean my muscle control is fluent and strong.. but when it comes to all snare drum or doing rolls i just cant seem to get anything done

the moeller method didnt help me one bit.. seeing as im having a problem learning THAT also


so my question is.. what can i do to strengthen my jello filled wrists

[zambizzi]

Steroids and a gut-wrenching bodybuilding regimen that would make Arnold buckle and squeal like a schoolgirl.

Or, you may just want to get a teacher and have him suggest some techniques?

I like using heavy marching sticks for that extra resistance, while working on the pad. Also, a *light* resistance training routine might do you some good.

[Class A Drummer]

Possibly Buying those things that you squeeze with the metal all curled up and stuff might help. Not sure though because its meant to strengthen grip.

this is what i mean

[foursticks]

As per usual - a good teacher with both dedicated and organised practise are your best friends.

As for other methods - dunno if this works, you could give chinese medicine balls a go? They're meant to help dexterity right?

[zambizzi]

Oh! And...a Powerball might help too. I own one of these but haven't used it much since tendonitis set in, but they're very cool.

http://www.thinkgeek.com/gadgets/electronic/6a4b/

...the guy on the included video has some serious guns too...so it MUST be good, right? ;)

[jonescrusher]

As foursticks said, consistent and repetitive practice, there are no shortcuts. Remember that a firm grip and solid strokes don't require big built up muscles.

[ZildjianMan1023]

i figured out what it was..

my grandmother got me a 2 pack of first act 5b sticks for christmas..


well seeing as they were sticks i said meh why not use them.. they are thicker and shorther than what i use. after comparing to a real stick the first act is about a qaurter inch shorter than what i was using.. after busting out my 747's i noticed a huge difference in my playing..

[Jeff Almeyda]

You need to practice for a minimum of an hour a day (3 is much better).

Here's a practice routine designed by WFD champ Art Verdi:
Warm up for 15 minutes

Then:
Play a flat flam (both sticks hit pad at same time) as triplets.

Do this at a moderate speed in front of a mirror while concentrating on your technique.

Do this for at least 30-45 minutes NONSTOP. Slow down if you must but don't lock up and don't stop.

Now do this routine 5-7 x weekly for 6 months. Seek to push but never past the point at which you lock up.


Now, this is where you will find that super fast guys like Art may differ from guys like Chapin.

Chapin says "If they tell you no pain no gain shoot 'em"

Verdi says: For anything worthwhile you have to suffer"

Just for a little perspective: Jim Chapin saw Art Verdi play and said that Art's left hand was better than Buddy's. This was at Pasic a few years back.

Jim can play very fast with his Moeller technique, yet when it comes to an unaccented, smooth extended snare roll, Art leaves him in the dust. I know them both and have taken lessons with both of them so I know what I'm talking about.


You must also practice relaxation techniques because the muscles of the forearm tend to tighten up. Do a google search of "wrist stretches" or "forearm stretches".

Note of caution: Be extra cautious when stretching the forearms as the wrists can get irritated easily. Never yank! Use a gentle touch.

To quote Dom Famularo: "Strengthen and stretch"

The forearm muscles are small and easily overwhelmed so use prudence and don't give yourself tendonitis by adding sets of wrist curls or anything like that. You will find that your hands will be sore after this kind of workout at the outset, btw.

[Deltadrummer]

Now, this is where you will find that super fast guys like Art may differ from guys like Chapin.

Chapin says "If they tell you no pain no gain shoot 'em"

Verdi says: For anything worthwhile you have to suffer"


.

I think you are misunderstanding Jim.

If you are feeling any kind of pain, you are doing something wrong. Relaxation feels no pain. You might feel discomfort, or feel that you are going past your threshold; but feeling pain and not listening to your body is always a bad thing when it comes to playing an instrument, and probably most things in life. I've known too many people over the years who have ended up with really bad tendinitis: pianists, guitar players, bass players or whatever, for not listening; it is the musicians curse.



the moeller method didnt help me one bit.. seeing as im having a problem learning THAT also


so my question is.. what can i do to strengthen my jello filled wrists

Moeller Method is an advanced method for creating accents, not developing strength. (you may disagree) As far as building your hands, it is really no mystery. That's what rudiments are for and you can pick up the Stone Stick Control book, but it is really just more ways to do rudiments. (I sound like a broken record, I know.) You can use a heavy stick, like a birch stick; Mike Mangini's or the Vic Firth MS4, and use that for ten minutes when you start your routine. I think that a thirty minute routine before you start your set practice would do wonders. But if that is too much working on technique just a little even;15 minutes would do wonders; every fifteen minutes you add, adds to the wonders. Then your whole practice is reinforcing your good technique rather than the opposite. Like JC said, (that's Jones Crusher not Jesus Christ) you really don't need these big muscles.

you can do:
eighth note doubles (long roll)
then 3s - 4s - 6s - 8s . . .alternating hands RRR LLL or RRRR LLLL or RRR RRR LLL LLL etc, "feel the bounce."
eighth note singles followed by sixteenth note doubles.
do some flams, (accents, Swiss, diddles) paradiddles, various rolls, three and four stroke ruff, and your all set.

Practice slow, and you should even practice quietly . The secret to playing fast is practicing slowly (with intention), the secret to developing power is practicing softly.(with relaxation)

This is the routine that most teachers will give you for your first lesson. You can just pay pal me my fee. :)

[jonescrusher]

Like JC said, (that's Jones Crusher not Jesus Christ)



I beg to differ sir.

[Deltadrummer]

I beg to differ sir.

I thought you might. :)

[schist]

Possibly Buying those things that you squeeze with the metal all curled up and stuff might help. Not sure though because its meant to strengthen grip.

this is what i mean

I'm actually gonna try that sometime. My left hand is absolute SHITE in comparison to my right. (no rhyme intended)

The sad thing is, a few months back, I was able to play good clean 16ths at 160BPM for 5 or so minutes, but now I'll be lucky if I can even hold it for 2. SO I'm putting my left hand into a super-intensive Spartan rehabilitation course, and this might help with grip. The other half of the puzzle is getting my left up to speed with my right (there's a 20-30BPM difference between each hand =( )

What do you reckon?

[Wavelength]

Practicing full strokes for an extended period of time every day ought to do wonders. You don't need heavy sticks, non-rebound surfaces or extra contraptions to increase your strength and endurance. Working with lighter sticks will improve your stroke velocity, which translates to more powerful strokes.

[Jeff Almeyda]

Art Verdi recommended this to me a while back:

http://www.cleverjoe.com/articles/gripmaster_hand_finger_exerciser.html


Be careful when adding these to your routine. Don't go to "failure" . I once pushed myself too hard with 'em and was out of commission for a week.

[Jeff Almeyda]

I'm actually gonna try that sometime. My left hand is absolute SHITE in comparison to my right. (no rhyme intended)

The sad thing is, a few months back, I was able to play good clean 16ths at 160BPM for 5 or so minutes, but now I'll be lucky if I can even hold it for 2. SO I'm putting my left hand into a super-intensive Spartan rehabilitation course, and this might help with grip. The other half of the puzzle is getting my left up to speed with my right (there's a 20-30BPM difference between each hand =( )

What do you reckon?

If that's where you're at then forget about the grippers for now.

Do the routine I set forth in a prior post, the grippers can wait. You need practice, plain and simple.

[damica]

This simple Warm-up has helped my left hand so much. I just do it 50 times a day. I started at (Quarter Note:=50 bpm) and have been working my way up.

[schist]

If that's where you're at then forget about the grippers for now.

Do the routine I set forth in a prior post, the grippers can wait. You need practice, plain and simple.

Okay - BUT here's the problem (and don't you dare just assume I'm making excuses) - my parents (mother especially) have super-sensitive bat-like hearing it would seem (or we just have thin walls), and even practice on a pillow/mattress is enough to drive her nuts. *eyeroll*

So I can be called upon to stop practice at ANY time - regardless of how long the practice session in question was. I've told her countless times that this is NOT just a 20 - 30 minute a week, just-for-a-laugh gig - I'm DEAD F***ING SERIOUS about this drumming thing and want to go places with it.

So just so you know, I probably won't be able to get the whole 30-45 minute flat-flam gig all the way through. :(

But on that topic though - regarding tempo, do you want us to do the triplet flat-flams at the highest comfortable speed, or what?

*UPDATE* - I actually got through the whole 30 minutes today UNINTERRUPTED. (100BPM triplets)

[Deltadrummer]

Okay - BUT here's the problem (and don't you dare just assume I'm making excuses) - my parents (mother especially) have super-sensitive bat-like hearing it would seem (or we just have thin walls), and even practice on a pillow/mattress is enough to drive her nuts. *eyeroll*

*UPDATE* - I actually got through the whole 30 minutes today UNINTERRUPTED. (100BPM triplets)

Isn't that the drummers dilemma. I feel for you man, and have often and still go through the same thing. I would recommend finding a music store that will rent you out some space at a reasonable rate, if that is possible. At least you can go there a couple of times a week and know that you are going to sit there for two hours and just work on your drumming uninterrrupted.
It may be costly; but it is certainly worth it. Many guys actually give up drumming because they end up in a living situation that doesn't allow them to play. But guys mowing their lawn, driving motorcycles and kids yelling when playing ball, that's okay.

[mosher]

Wrist curls with 2 LB weights are geat for wrist building

[II xMETALx II]

Its all about practicing rudiments and then applying them around the kit. (mostly single strokes)

Then you can add them to your grooves and you start thinking of patterns and so on, it just came naturally for me with a lot of practice. I need to practice more with my feet unfortunately :S

[Knowthyself]

im really confused about this whole using wieghts and what not

i have definetly heard drummers that have used it and it sounded like it worked --

http://www.woozyfly.com/?c=2676 -

but...

i have also heard that its awful for you

can someone weigh in on this?

[Deltadrummer]

im really confused about this whole using wieghts and what not

i have definetly heard drummers that have used it and it sounded like it worked --

http://www.woozyfly.com/?c=2676 -

but...

i have also heard that its awful for you

can someone weigh in on this?


I'll put forth my opinion and you can give it as much weight as you would like.

I used to use a weighted/aluminum stick years ago and it worked well for me. I think that strengthening the arms is a good practice for drummers, and using a weighted stick for full Moeller works well. But I would be careful over using it; in order to gain speed you don't need strength as much as flexibility, and muscle development is not what brings about flexibility.

[mosher]

no shortcuts
practicing the rudiments is the thing
weights make you muscle bound and stiff

[jonescrusher]

no shortcuts
practicing the rudiments is the thing
weights make you muscle bound and stiff

So why are you doing 2lb wrist curls?

[Vinnysimmo]

So why are you doing 2lb wrist curls?

AHA!
Good point!,,,,,,,

[mosher]

I talked to an X teacher about this after I posted that

[mosher]

wieghts tighten the wrists and fingers

[jonescrusher]

Great that you've 'seen the light'. That said, wrist curls are a good workout to do any way, as is any routine that improves strength, I think it's just not necessary to see them as a was to improve ability on drums. It's never going to be a bad thing to work out or exercise, just as long as you don't aim to become muscle bound.

[rockitman]

I beg to differ sir.
Blaspheme.

Easy on us Christians boys, it's hard enough lately.

[mosher]

Drummers should work on fast reflex action