Don't understand latin drumset playing.

[Lance69]

hi,

I'm having trouble understanding latin drumming, because I'm trying to learn how to play this kind of music on the drum set. and the recordings I listen to such as Mongo Santamaria, Tito Puente, etc... there is no drum set that I can hear.

Any suggestions?

Thanks.

[Muffled Tom]

hi,

I'm having trouble understanding latin drumming, because I'm trying to learn how to play this kind of music on the drum set. and the recordings I listen to such as Mongo Santamaria, Tito Puente, etc... there is no drum set that I can hear.

Any suggestions?

Thanks.

Here's a nice little video explaining how to play some good ol' Brazilian samba. It's pretty easy, something I learned very early in my drumming life.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7F8yeCfBUi0

[blade123]

Well because there is no "Latin" drumming. There are different styles that fall under the tree of "Latin". Pick out a specific style, and work on it. Samba is a good start.

[bballdrummer34]

Check out some other cats like Horacio Hernanez, Robby Ameen, Antonio Sanchez, and Dafnis Preito. These are four drummers who took Afro-cuban drumming to the next level find some records with them on it. Also check out Michel Camilo a piano player. I'll start you off.

Michel Camilo: Live at the Blue Note (Hernandez)
Another Kind Of Blue" Live at the Blue Note-Conrad Herwig (Ameen)
Transcend-Paoli Mejias (Antonio Sanchez)
On Fire-Michel Camilo (various drummers)

Life long study my friend have fun.

[foursticks]

hi,

I'm having trouble understanding latin drumming, because I'm trying to learn how to play this kind of music on the drum set. and the recordings I listen to such as Mongo Santamaria, Tito Puente, etc... there is no drum set that I can hear.

Any suggestions?

Thanks.

Well Latin traditionally (correct, me if I'm wrong) never really required a drum set, you usually have multi percussion instruments (depending on style) which make up the percussive rhythm section. In latin drum set playing, one is trying to condense different percussive instruments onto the drum set.
For example in a Mambo it could consist of the right hand playing a Cascara pattern, whilst the left hand playing a clave/timbale pattern and bass drum a bomba pattern, with the hi-hat playing the pulse.
When your listening to one of the records listen to the percussion section and try to see how that condensation onto the drum set came about and see if you can come with some new ideas to throw in there yourself.

[aydee]

Well Latin traditionally (correct, me if I'm wrong) never really required a drum set, you usually have multi percussion instruments (depending on style) which make up the percussive rhythm section. In latin drum set playing, one is trying to condense different percussive instruments onto the drum set.
For example in a Mambo it could consist of the right hand playing a Cascara pattern, whilst the left hand playing a clave/timbale pattern and bass drum a bomba pattern, with the hi-hat playing the pulse.
When your listening to one of the records listen to the percussion section and try to see how that condensation onto the drum set came about and see if you can come with some new ideas to throw in there yourself.

Foursticks is right, Latins drumset playing is an Americanization of latin ensemble playing, with 5 or 6 guys playing different percussion instruments, so its not an authentic expression of the music.

Horacio and Sanchez are monsters who are really pushing the boundaries of traditional playing so hard, it might not be a good idea to listen to them as examples for rudimentary understanding. I would try the DW archive and pick out people who's playing you feel comfortable comprehending.

[Vinnysimmo]

Here's a nice little video explaining how to play some good ol' Brazilian samba. It's pretty easy, something I learned very early in my drumming life.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7F8yeCfBUi0

Thanks. Ill take a look at that later.

[Wavelength]

A great way to learn how to play the latin styles on a drum set is to learn to play the original instruments in their original context. You can learn a lot about Cuban music's rhythms and phrasing by learning how to play the timbales and the congas. If you can't get a hold of a pair of actual timbales, you can imitate them by using your snare drum (strainer off), a cowbell (or a cymbal) and the side of your floor tom. Learn how to play the different foundational rhythms (the clave, the mambo, and the cascara pattern) with both hands, and learn ALL of their possible combinations.

You can emulate the congas by using a rim-click for the slap sound, the rack tom for an open sound on the smaller conga and the floor tom for an open sound the larger tumba. You can replicate a lot of conga grooves with just these three distinct sounds.

When you have mastered the basics with your hands, try adding the pedal hi-hat on half-notes or 2 & 4 -- remember that Latin music is usually felt in 2/2. Once you have this going, add the bass drum on the and of two and on four. Then try to combine the different rhythms, going from one pattern combination to another without stopping. When you can switch from one feel to another, try to play some one-bar fills or even solos, and return to the groove without missing a beat.

[Lance69]

Thanks guys. Any books that you would recommend?
Right now I have the "The Essence of Afro-Cuban Percussion and Drum Set Playing" and "The Essence of Brazilian Percussion and Drum Set Playing" book by Ed Uribe and I have the "Conversations In Clave" book by Horacio Hernandez.

[foursticks]

Not sure if it's available outside the UK, or even Manchester, but try looking for 'Latin Grooves' by Dave Hassel. Covers main styles from Mambo to Calypso, all the cascara patterns, left hand, bass drum and hi-hat patterns too with suggestions with coming up with your own. It listening suggestions as well as tips on getting the feel right whether it'd be a fusion/jazz situation or folkloric situation. There's even a play along cd that comes with with a proper traditional band of whatever style, so you have all the percussion parts (apart from kit) - so you can even use the cd as a play along for any latin percussion instrument.
Dave himself is mainly a latin player and an insightful man. If you ever happen to come across it definatley get it. However, you might want a competent teacher to see you through that book and latin playing in general - as Dave himself urges.

[dea]

Search the internet for "Left Foot Clave". This is where I started. Then pick up a good book. I have, "Afro-Cuban Rhythms for the Drumset". This is a great book.

[bballdrummer34]

A great way to learn a style of music is to listen to tons of it. This is the only way you're going to know what it "feels" like. I've worked out of all the popular "latin" books. Thats not exactly what's going on on the drum set. There are different textures you need to be able to create when playing this music that are not well explained in any of those books. I think Robby Ameen does the best as far as clarity. You won't understand it until you have lived/listened to it.

[Deathmetalconga]

Foursticks is right, Latins drumset playing is an Americanization of latin ensemble playing, with 5 or 6 guys playing different percussion instruments, so its not an authentic expression of the music.

I take issue with this concept of authenticity. Folkloric Cuban music is closely related to the music of the Yorubas in Nigeria as it was 400 years ago. The Cuban slaves were trying to make authentic instruments like ashikos and had to use rum barrels - thus the conga was born. So is Cuban music less "authentic" than Yoruban music because it uses different instruments? If salsa less authentic because it uses Western orchestral instruments (piano, violin, guitar, etc.)? Only if you're talking in the context of a narrow slice of artictic expression can authenticity be relevant, and "authentic" music is just a derivation of someone else's "authentic" music.

Music is constantly evolving. We have long borrowed influences from Africa and Latin America and if you listen to their pop music, you hear American influences. Now people in Asia, the Middle East, Africa and Latin American are digesting hip-hop and throwing it back at us. As the world grows increasingly connected, authenticity is less relevant - maybe even endangered.

[fat in the middle]

I take issue with this concept of authenticity. Folkloric Cuban music is closely related to the music of the Yorubas in Nigeria as it was 400 years ago. The Cuban slaves were trying to make authentic instruments like ashikos and had to use rum barrels - thus the conga was born. So is Cuban music less "authentic" than Yoruban music because it uses different instruments? If salsa less authentic because it uses Western orchestral instruments (piano, violin, guitar, etc.)? Only if you're talking in the context of a narrow slice of artictic expression can authenticity be relevant, and "authentic" music is just a derivation of someone else's "authentic" music.

Music is constantly evolving. We have long borrowed influences from Africa and Latin America and if you listen to their pop music, you hear American influences. Now people in Asia, the Middle East, Africa and Latin American are digesting hip-hop and throwing it back at us. As the world grows increasingly connected, authenticity is less relevant - maybe even endangered.

Well said,I have to agree with you DMC, I think music played with the heart is the only authentic music, however, that said, I guess you can get authentic bubblegum crap!

[aydee]

I take issue with this concept of authenticity. Folkloric Cuban music is closely related to the music of the Yorubas in Nigeria as it was 400 years ago. The Cuban slaves were trying to make authentic instruments like ashikos and had to use rum barrels - thus the conga was born. So is Cuban music less "authentic" than Yoruban music because it uses different instruments? If salsa less authentic because it uses Western orchestral instruments (piano, violin, guitar, etc.)? Only if you're talking in the context of a narrow slice of artictic expression can authenticity be relevant, and "authentic" music is just a derivation of someone else's "authentic" music.

Music is constantly evolving. We have long borrowed influences from Africa and Latin America and if you listen to their pop music, you hear American influences. Now people in Asia, the Middle East, Africa and Latin American are digesting hip-hop and throwing it back at us. As the world grows increasingly connected, authenticity is less relevant - maybe even endangered.

You got me there DMC, you're right about evoution. You should check out some Indian Bhangra which now sounds like Usher on 'roids.

My point about autheticity was that the syncopation that we hear in world music, Latin, West African , and more specifically AfroCuban, exists primarily because it is performed by more than one person, which gives it its wonderfully smoky flavor, with many timbres and accents.

Agreed, it has transposed itself beautifully on to the drumset with people like Horacio, and Sanchez, who make a drumkit sound like a carnivale band.

Authenticity is less relevant in a more connected world today, but the birth and the heritage of a playing style should be acknowledged.

[Deathmetalconga]

You got me there DMC, you're right about evoution. You should check out some Indian Bhangra which now sounds like Usher on 'roids.

My point about autheticity was that the syncopation that we hear in world music, Latin, West African , and more specifically AfroCuban, exists primarily because it is performed by more than one person, which gives it its wonderfully smoky flavor, with many timbres and accents.

Agreed, it has transposed itself beautifully on to the drumset with people like Horacio, and Sanchez, who make a drumkit sound like a carnivale band.

Authenticity is less relevant in a more connected world today, but the birth and the heritage of a playing style should be acknowledged.

Good thoughts. Even though authenticity exists, it can only apply to a specific genre in a specific setting. Folkloric styles are the least flexible and most concerned with authenticity - if someone showed up with a drumset at a Santeria spirit possession ceremony or with a Baptist church organist, that would be truly inauthentic because of the restricted purpose of the music. But groups like Irakere successfully combined the drumset with folkloric instruments, resulting in a new genre.

But even there, as you point out, there must be the core essence of the music, and it percussion-derived African and Latin music it is the clave. If someone wanted to fit a Theremin or erhu into a Latin ensemble, these instruments would still have to obey the clave.

I think authenticity to some extent is threatened. There has been so much experimentation and cross-pollination that what will become of the original source code, the authentic folkloric style? I believe that there have been exiting genres of music that have become extinct because they weren't written down and their civilizations became extinct. Imagine the exotic scales and rhythms that no one has heard in thousands of years.

[Tyr]

If you're new to it, I'd suggest picking up Tommy Igoe's Groove Essentials. It will give you a nice taste of a few of the more popular latin rhythms as applied to the drumset. It sure helped me when I first started developing an interest in latin drumming!

[LinearDrummer]

hi,

I'm having trouble understanding latin drumming, because I'm trying to learn how to play this kind of music on the drum set. and the recordings I listen to such as Mongo Santamaria, Tito Puente, etc... there is no drum set that I can hear.

Any suggestions?

Thanks.

Foursticks is on point in that as a drummer you are trying to emulate multiple percussionist so listenting to records that don't have drummers is still valuble cause ultimalety you will try to use their phrasing/parts on the kit...

Check out Phil Maturano....He has DVD called Afro Cuban Drumming and some books also for developing independence....and hes also a member of the forum so you can lob him a few ?s if you get stuck....

[joeybeats]

If you're new to it, I'd suggest picking up Tommy Igoe's Groove Essentials. It will give you a nice taste of a few of the more popular latin rhythms as applied to the drumset. It sure helped me when I first started developing an interest in latin drumming!

I agree. And spoon-fed, just the way I like it. Joey

[aydee]

Good thoughts. Even though authenticity exists, it can only apply to a specific genre in a specific setting. Folkloric styles are the least flexible and most concerned with authenticity - if someone showed up with a drumset at a Santeria spirit possession ceremony or with a Baptist church organist, that would be truly inauthentic because of the restricted purpose of the music. But groups like Irakere successfully combined the drumset with folkloric instruments, resulting in a new genre.

But even there, as you point out, there must be the core essence of the music, and it percussion-derived African and Latin music it is the clave. If someone wanted to fit a Theremin or erhu into a Latin ensemble, these instruments would still have to obey the clave.

I think authenticity to some extent is threatened. There has been so much experimentation and cross-pollination that what will become of the original source code, the authentic folkloric style? I believe that there have been exiting genres of music that have become extinct because they weren't written down and their civilizations became extinct. Imagine the exotic scales and rhythms that no one has heard in thousands of years.

Authenticity is certainly threatened in a musical sense, but it also works as a cultural counter- force in IMO.

Along with their evolving musicality,folkloric styles also represent traditions and cultural ethos,also playing the role of holding communities together and giving them a common parlance, a common language, so there would be some resistance to change, I'd imagine.

So much of so called 'ethnic' music, be it bavarian polkas or the clave that we are talking about here, or almost anything else, emanate from wedding processions,dances, harvests, the birth of children and a celebration of saints and so on, landmark institutions designed for harmonious co-existince and the coming together of a community, or a people.

This music is about unchanged familiarity and bonding as are rugby songs, war drums, victory song...etc

comfort food/music?

The modern musician's innate creative streak, combined with total access to global musical information/knowledge is what is changing the context of this music, with the original purpose lost or obsolete as you point out.

You are also right about the disappearance and extinction of much music from the face of the earth. A lot of great symphonies were lost because of the lack of patronage and support from the reigning powers of state or church.

An interesting exception to this rule is the ancient tradition of Indian classical music which has survived, in all its sophistication and intricacy, thousands of centuries, without a single piece of notation ever written down.

It is an oral tradition which was passed on from teacher to student, from the seniors of a particular musical style to the newbies. This system flourishes unchanged in the 21st century.

Btw, I heard Mongo Santamaria 15 years ago. Not TOO dissimilar to Horacio Henrnadez?

[KCDrummer]

OK, first of all, that guy is demonstrating a bossa nova, not a samba. True, the two styles basically use the same patterns, samba is essentially a faster version of bossa nova. However, the tempo he's playing falls squarely in the bossa nova. I think it would have to be twice that fast or close to it to be called a samba.

Don't forget, these are dance styles. So if you were playing a dance gig where someone asked you to play a samba and you played what Freddie played, the dancers would say "No, that's a bossa nova, I said SAMBA! YOU'RE FIRED!"

Well, maybe not the last part but definitely the first part.

The book I have recommended a thousand times on this and other forums is "Essential Latin Styles for Drumset" by Doug Auwarter. It discusses the origins, instrumentations, terminology, and performance practices for virtually any Afro Cuban or Brazilian style with instructions and notations to help you transfer them onto the drumset.

I also have made two videos (one demonstrating Afro-Cuban and Brazilian styles and the other demonstrating brush technique) that I think will be helpful. They will be posted on Youtube soon, so I'll be sure and let everyone know when they're up.

[percusboy]

Well because there is no "Latin" drumming. There are different styles that fall under the tree of "Latin". Pick out a specific style, and work on it. Samba is a good start.

Please, lets not give him wrong information... Samba is NOT latin. Samba is Brazilian, a completely different animal altogether with a different rhythmic philosophy and approach.

Mambo, Cha cha, Bolero, Rumba, Songo, Guaguanco etc... those are examples of Latin rhythms. Check out Tommy Igoe's Groove Essentials to start off on the right foot.

[aydee]

I also have made two videos (one demonstrating Afro-Cuban and Brazilian styles and the other demonstrating brush technique) that I think will be helpful. They will be posted on Youtube soon, so I'll be sure and let everyone know when they're up.

I would highly recommend zack's videos. They are really well explained and demonstrated.