Jojo's mayers bass drum technique

[JoePorter]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rAEP_EHw9NQ

I've been trying to figure out his motion for awhile it looks like a sliding motion.

I've always used heel toe for fast seconds, and moeller technique with the feet for accented patterns however i've never really had a system for good 3's and 4's.

Any advice, video clips? thanks

[The popes love child]

I know that he uses pretty much any pedal he can get his hands on and makes them as loose as possible, I've even heard people say he takes out the spring but that doesn't seem right to me.

[tak22thegoat]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rAEP_EHw9NQ

I've been trying to figure out his motion for awhile it looks like a sliding motion.

I've always used heel toe for fast seconds, and moeller technique with the feet for accented patterns however i've never really had a system for good 3's and 4's.

Any advice, video clips? thanks

He says its more like a knee too and not a heel toe and thats the key.

[King Of Drums]

From what I have learned and practiced his technique is basically knee-toe. The first stroke the leg goes down the second stroke you lift the leg up. When I do it my heel doesn't touch the foot board. Basically the technique is the same as the push pull with your hands but on your pedal. It's down up down up down up etc. Imo this is the best method for producing multiple notes on a single pedal. It works good on the hi-hat pedal too.

[JoePorter]

I'm confusing on the knee stroke, how is the stroke with the knee produced?

[abe]

I'm confusing on the knee stroke, how is the stroke with the knee produced?

well, you lift knee - whole leg, instead of just stroke with heel.

[foursticks]

I know that he uses pretty much any pedal he can get his hands on and makes them as loose as possible, I've even heard people say he takes out the spring but that doesn't seem right to me.

It is true that he takes the spring- it enables him to control the rebound alot easier and do triple strokes, even quadruple. The man is such a master of all kinds of technique it's untrue.

[PQleyR]

If you do that, how can you control where the beater is in a resting position?

[fourstringdrums]

It is true that he takes the spring- it enables him to control the rebound alot easier and do triple strokes, even quadruple. The man is such a master of all kinds of technique it's untrue.

....how? I just did that for the heck of it and the beater obviously falls flat against the head and doesn't come back, so I don't see how he gets any rebound or motion off the pedal without a spring.

I've also heard of Dennis Chambers doing this too but it still doesn't compute with me.

[PQleyR]

I've just found a longer and better quality version of the video here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C0x-x87SxWg

Hope this helps!

[foursticks]

....how? I just did that for the heck of it and the beater obviously falls flat against the head and doesn't come back, so I don't see how he gets any rebound or motion off the pedal without a spring.

I've also heard of Dennis Chambers doing this too but it still doesn't compute with me.

Well I'm no expert on his technique (you might want to ask Raymond Bloom), but I think due to the heel-toe sort of technique he uses it actually enables him to create that rebound. You can see in the videos that it's mainly him creating the stroke, not rebound.
That's my theory on it anyway..

[ermghoti]

The rebound would have to come from the drumhead, and the beater position would be controlled by the foot. It'd basically be like playing a drum mounted perpendicularly with a stick. Interesting.

Edit: Ah. He rests with the beater on the head.

[fourstringdrums]

The rebound would have to come from the drumhead, and the beater position would be controlled by the foot. It'd basically be like playing a drum mounted perpendicularly with a stick. Interesting.

Edit: Ah. He rests with the beater on the head.

It still doesn't make sense *lol* I'm trying it right now and as soon as the beater hits the head, it stays there. It may chatter once but that's it. So I don't understand how from a resting position he gets it off the head if there is no spring.

[chopshop]

It still doesn't make sense *lol* I'm trying it right now and as soon as the beater hits the head, it stays there. It may chatter once but that's it. So I don't understand how from a resting position he gets it off the head if there is no spring.

I'm having the same problem, I can't get it to rebound without the spring.

[JoePorter]

the motion hes using looks like the constant release motion.

I've been experimenting and can get triplets and quad's between swiveling and heel toe like

swivel heel toe, swivel swivel heel toe

[chopshop]

And this is with the spring off correct?

[ghuyuiq]

And this is with the spring off correct?

That's probably something he gave as an example to show people that that's possible, just using the bounce, but I don't think he'd (often) use it.

[slingerland755]

That's probably something he gave as an example to show people that that's possible, just using the bounce, but I don't think he'd (often) use it.

I believe he can use it whenever he wants.

[Raymond Bloom]

Any advice, video clips? thanks
I learned this technique directly from Jojo, this is how he showed it:

the most crucial part is the first stroke, because the second stroke happens by itself if the first one is correct.

so, to execute the first stroke, start from heel-up position, now drop the heel (and this part is very very difficult) the result should be a heel stroke without the heel actually touching the pedal board. OK, so how to do it?! What you need to understand is that it's not really a heel-stroke, but more like a toe down stroke, you need the heel only as an anchor of balance, the heel stroke happens before the heel comes down!

Now once the beater touches the drumhead, you need to ''catch the rebound'' and lift your foot up in the heel-up position again which will be the cause of the second stroke. Immediately after the beater touches the drumhead, drop your heel and your back to the starting position!


You can look at this technique two ways, as a heel-toe or toe-heel technique, it really does not matter, you can start with the heel stroke or toe stroke (I would choose depending on the sound I need), important is the fact that those two strokes depend on each other

one troubleshoot, triplets are something you will struggle! because you need to rethink this concept a bit, Jojo does it this way:

do two strokes in a row with the silde technique, to gain the third stroke just drop your heel and it will happen by itself! So, groups of 3 will always be a toe-toe-heel thing, although, when you get really good at this technique, you can start experimenting with toe-heel-toe, heel-heel-toe and other combinations which I would choose depending on the sound I want, because you will never get all the strokes even, but that's actually what I like about this technique, it sounds dynamic! Juts like comparing a double stroke compared to single stroke (with the hands), doubles sounds much more open, while singles are more staccato!

Anyway, once you know how to do 2 and 3 strokes in a row, the rest is simple! 7 strokes? Heel-toe-heel-toe-heel-toe-toe All you need is to add just one more stroke, you can do it how ever you want, I personally use toe strokes. All the patterns with 4,6,8,10 etc strokes are easy because it's just a repeated heel-toe motion!


Hope this helps! Yes, I know, I need to make a video :)


Ray

[Raymond Bloom]

OK, more about the spring tension, some guys prefer to have it really tight, some guys (like Jojo and me) prefer it really loose!

So, pros and cons.

What you need to understand is that fast speed equals less power than slow speed, because the motion is too fast to incorporate bigger muscle groups which would add power to the strokes, pure physics! If you use heel-toe technique for fast patterns on the bass drum, that you would normally play with a double pedal, then logically that your foot is moving at pretty much the ''final gear'' if talking about the capability of speed, so you are using those small, fast-twitch muscles more than slow-twitch. Now, since you are using smaller muscle groups, every bit of resistance from the pedal becomes crucial to execute this technique at fast speeds, because your muscles are not strong enough to constantly work against huge resistance.

What you can do is practice with a tighter tensioned spring, BUT it would be the same as any other resistance exercise and it won't really do any good for this technique, it just will force your fast-twitch muscles to become into slow-twitch muscles

One more thing I don't like about pedals with high tensioned spring is that they reduce my dynamics, if I need to play for example soft heel down strokes (bass drum feathering) it would be really hard to do it, and I will have to use an unnecessary strength to move the beater

[Tutin]

He can't use a pedal without a spring. Just no.

[PBW]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rAEP_EHw9NQ

I've been trying to figure out his motion for awhile it looks like a sliding motion.

I've always used heel toe for fast seconds, and moeller technique with the feet for accented patterns however i've never really had a system for good 3's and 4's.

Any advice, video clips? thanks

Also have a look here: http://www.jojomayer.com/html/faq_.html#PEDAL

[mata]

http://www.fitomessina.com.ar/
look in lessons>free lessons> there are some videos that demonstrates rebound without a spring

[OldStampK]

Really interesting thread. For years I neglected really breaking down what's happenning with my feet.

One Question. I've been using my old Tama-made Camco chain drive as my single pedal. The problem is, when I attempt to practice toe-heel technique the forward motion of my foot is blocked by a toe stopper that's built into the foot board. I've been working on lifting my toes over the stopper, but it seems like too much wasted motion. Should I just break down and buy a pedal with a longer footboard, or should I continue working with what I've got?

[OldStampK]

Whoa, it seems that Jo Jo answered my question about pedals with toe-stops here.

http://www.jojomayer.com/html/faq_.html#PEDAL