How essential are rudiments?

[Muffled Tom]

Are rudiments essential for improving speed and precision? Or can such traits be developed through practicing a lot.. simply playing along to songs, just playing, and just insisting on things till they work? Like doing a fast fill you can't do over and over again till you can, instead of doing paraddidles and applying them later?

[brittc89]

Are rudiments essential for improving speed and precision? Or can such traits be developed through practicing a lot.. simply playing along to songs, just playing, and just insisting on things till they work? Like doing a fast fill you can't do over and over again till you can, instead of doing paraddidles and applying them later?

Why wouldnt you want to learn rudiments. Theyre the foundations of your instrument. So what kind of fill are you talking about that wouldnt require any type of rudimental skill. I cant think of one because ever time you play youre using rudiments. However too many people dont know any rudiments beyond single strokes and they end up playing the same thing over and over again and they never get any better. Just take the time to learn as many as you can. Youll be a more skillful drummer and youll also have the vocabulary to bring your creative ideas into fruition.

[Muffled Tom]

Why wouldnt you want to learn rudiments. Theyre the foundations of your instrument. So what kind of fill are you talking about that wouldnt require any type of rudimental skill. I cant think of one because ever time you play youre using rudiments. However too many people dont know any rudiments beyond single strokes and they end up playing the same thing over and over again and they never get any better. Just take the time to learn as many as you can. Youll be a more skillful drummer and youll also have the vocabulary to bring your creative ideas into fruition.

Well said.

I have nothing against learning rudiments, and I do study them, I was just wondering how much time should be put into learning them as opposed to simply playing.

[brittc89]

Well said.

I have nothing against learning rudiments, and I do study them, I was just wondering how much time should be put into learning them as opposed to simply playing.

You should do both really. But Im NOT a fan of learning a fill so that I can use it over and over again. When Im on my actual drums, im not really all that focused on my hand technique as I am on my feel, tone, time, coordination, and fluidity around my drums, all of which Im using my knowledge of rudiments to aid me. The thing is, on the drums, with the exception of a few incredible players (ari hoenig), we are fairly a tonal, but I stress that you should still always be thinking melodically on a drumset. This means though that we dont have scales or notes, instead we have rudiments. So instead of learning your c scale on the drums, you learn double strokes and so forth. Theyre our tools to be able to create music.

[foursticks]

Yes, I'm neither a fan of licks - they don't offer much musically and you'll find yourself depending on them regularly. I mean everyone has their licks (even if they say they don't), but it's when you use them over and over again in every piece, rather than building from them or coming up with completely new ideas, that it becomes 'dependent and unmusical.' It's knowledge and fluidity of rudiments that help you come up with new ideas spontaneously and on the spot when your 'in the game.' There are other factors as well which enable you to do that, but rudiments are one of the foundations, like the scale analogy - rudiments are the drummer's scales.
So if you wanna be able to play whatever rhythm/melody you want as soon as it crosses your conciousness - rudiments is where its all at.

Note: I have to stress that the whole being able to play whatever you think comes with time and consistant practise. Don't expect to get it right away. It'll happen from time to time and it'll feel incredible, but only in time will it become regular.

[Pete Stoltman]

If you're playing single strokes, double strokes, and combinations of those then you ARE playing/practicing rudiments. You just may not know them as that. As for sitting down at a drum or pad and mastering the rudiments as we know them from a traditional standpoint I think they are quite valuable. Most of us don't play rudimental style drumming unless you are a marching band or corps guy but the flexibility and technique you pick up from learning the traditional rudiments will serve you well when you apply those principles to the drumming you do on a regular basis. Same reason golfers go to the practice range and hit buckets of balls :)

[jay norem]

Essential for some, not the least bit essential for others. That's just the way it is. But you have to learn to read music, have knowledge of theory, harmony, that sort of thing. Now THAT'S essential.
I know too many drummers who throw their teachers' names around and all they can do is play variations on what they were taught. It's impressive to see a guy pull some of that stuff off, but most of the time it just isn't music.
Rudiments are basically about how to play a snare drum that hangs from your neck.

[burnthehero]

I've realized that rudiments are like math. You hate it growing up and you say you'll never use it out in the real world. But that's not the idea. The idea of taking math when you're young is so you can learn to use your brain and problem solve. Rudiments, like math, is a tool to help you learn to use your brain and your hands/feet.

[zambizzi]

They're critical, in my opinion, but that's just how I have been taught...so far.

I see it like this; You're trying to build a vocabulary. First it starts out with words (single rudimental phrases)...soon you're speaking sentences. Eventually you're comfortable with your words, phrases, etc. and can "speak" by combining these patterns across your drum kit.

I see rudiments as the gateway to a robust drumming vocabulary. I practice them everyday. I also spend a lot of time learning cadences to give me new ideas on combining rudiments.

[svkelleher10]

Are rudiments essential for improving speed and precision? Or can such traits be developed through practicing a lot.. simply playing along to songs, just playing, and just insisting on things till they work? Like doing a fast fill you can't do over and over again till you can, instead of doing paraddidles and applying them later?

I once knew all 40 rudiments.

That was years ago.

I've practiced the Paradiddle rudiments on my double kicker, and went from 80bpm to 200bpm in only a few months.

By the way, Incubus isn't bad.

[Deltadrummer]

Are rudiments essential for improving speed and precision? Or can such traits be developed through practicing a lot.. simply playing along to songs, just playing, and just insisting on things till they work? Like doing a fast fill you can't do over and over again till you can, instead of doing paraddidles and applying them later?

Do you mean all rudiments, or just the essential ones?

[jay norem]

Do you mean all rudiments, or just the essential ones?

And what are the essential rudiments? Just wondering.

[Muffled Tom]

Do you mean all rudiments, or just the essential ones?

Essential ones. You know. Paraddidles, paraddidle diddles, double stroke, single stroke, flam, etc.

[tak22thegoat]

As people below have said already, they add more to your vocab. which is definitely a plus. But rudiments do more. You learn pressure points and gain technique from practicing them. You will be able to play more fluently, and will be able to create a better groove, and fills.

[aydee]

to answer your specific question.. Rudiments have nothing to do with speed. Practice does.

Whether rudiments are important as a learning, evolving, drummer is another debate.

For me, as most people here have already said,rudiments are added vocabulary. But, the reason I think they are important is that they help you understand what you are doing, even if you are a non formally trained drummer.

[Deltadrummer]

And what are the essential rudiments? Just wondering.

The first 13 of the 26 NARD rudiments were always referred to as the Essential rudiments, that was before the 40 standard PAS rudiments, which if you Google are now referred to as the 40 essential rudiments.

From wiki

Historical Organization:

The Thirteen "Essential" Rudiments

1. The Long Roll
2. The Five Stroke Roll
3. The Seven Stroke Roll
4. The Flam
5. The Flam Accent
6. The Flam Paradiddle
7. The Flamacue
8. The Ruff
9. The Single Drag
10. The Double Drag
11. The Double Paradiddle
12. The Single Ratamacue
13. The Triple Ratamacue

My comment about the essential rudiments was just a play on words as regards the question: are the "essential" rudiments really essential.

Answer. Well that's why they call them essential.

[Muffled Tom]

My comment about the essential rudiments was just a play on words as regards the question: are the "essential" rudiments really essential.

Answer. Well that's why they call them essential.


Oh how clever you are!

[Wegadrummer]

My drumteacher once said when I started drumming, "learn singles, doubles and paradiddles, then expand"

[Deltadrummer]

Well, I'm going to go out on limb here and ask the question, what kind of a legacy does a drummer leave to the craft?

Guys like Papa Jo, Buddy, Max, Ringo, Williams, Cobham, Gadd, Vinnie all are tremendously popular and influential because they have left a mark on the tradition of drumming. They gave something back to that tradition. As a drummer, are you a taker of a giver?

[aydee]

Oh how clever you are!

Well, Delta is reminding you, that you ask a rhetorical question. Rudiments means the same thing as fundamental.

Table stakes, bud, IMO. Even if you're garageband, you'd be a better garageband drummer if you nail your pariddle fills with precision.

No karate without the katas, for me anyway.

[Derek]

Rudiments are our scales .And reading the replies from Aydee and Delta should put this thread to rest.

[jazzsnob]

Everything you play is a rudiment. If you spend a lot of time playing along to your favorite bands songs, you are still doing rudiments. Any note you hit on a drumset is at least the first note of a single stroke roll. So it's all about how in depth you want to go. If you're comfortable only having the rudimental ability of someone who jams along to songs, that's fine, but someone who has an organized approach to practicing and improving each rudiment will seem to have much better hand technique than you. You're doing rudiments, bu not very many of them and in a totally disorganized way. Organized, smart practice always gives you more results.

[Muffled Tom]

Well, Delta is reminding you, that you ask a rhetorical question. Rudiments means the same thing as fundamental.

Table stakes, bud, IMO. Even if you're garageband, you'd be a better garageband drummer if you nail your pariddle fills with precision.

No karate without the katas, for me anyway.

I didn't mean to be offensive. I just thought it was a clever play on words.

And don't be patronizing. >:-(

[aydee]

I didn't mean to be offensive. I just thought it was a clever play on words.

And don't be patronizing. >:-(

Sorry , if I misunderstood.

I'm assuming by the nature of the thread title and your question, that you asked a serious question and Delta gave you a serious detailed and informed answer. Your response seemed flippant.

( as I said, I apologize, if I misunderstood :)

[Muffled Tom]

Sorry , if I misunderstood.

I'm assuming by the nature of the thread title and your question, that you asked a serious question and Delta gave you a serious detailed and informed answer. Your response seemed flippant.

( as I said, I apologize, if I misunderstood :)

Yeah I can see how someone might misinterpret that comment.. it's all good now that it's sorted out.. b(^_^)b

[Sleuth]

Sorry if this has already been answered in this thread or another, but I have yet to find it. Is there a reccommended order for learning or teaching the rudiments? I'm sure there are a lot of opinions on this, but any input would be appreciated. Just wondering. Thank you.

[Deltadrummer]

Let me take you hand:

The Thirteen "Essential" Rudiments

1. The Long Roll
2. The Five Stroke Roll
3. The Seven Stroke Roll
4. The Flam
5. The Flam Accent
6. The Flam Paradiddle
7. The Flamacue
8. The Ruff
9. The Single Drag
10. The Double Drag
11. The Double Paradiddle
12. The Single Ratamacue
13. The Triple Ratamacue

[rendezvous_drummer]

No question that learning rudiments will make you a better drummer. It doesn't hurt to know the 13 essential rudiments layed out by Deltadrummer. To make a short story even shorter.......learn as many rudiments as possible.

[zambizzi]

Sorry if this has already been answered in this thread or another, but I have yet to find it. Is there a reccommended order for learning or teaching the rudiments? I'm sure there are a lot of opinions on this, but any input would be appreciated. Just wondering. Thank you.

Here's where a teacher comes in very handy. Not that you couldn't do it yourself...however these are the "building blocks" of your drumming and a teacher will get you using them faster and better, in my opinion.

[Enchantca]

OLA como estas' I Feel & Think That Learning The Rudiments in A Very Musical
Structure is A FANTASTIC way too Gain More Knowledge of & with This ANCIENT ART Form of DRUMMING **An Learn the Swiss Chart Rudiments Always Work within the Musical Structure Of EACH Rudiment ,Make THEM SING from Your Own DEEP PASSION of THIS ANCIENT SPIRITUAL ART of DRUMMING & ALL DRUMS TAMBORES.
PERCUSSION. ITS A FANTASTIC Journey**.GRACIAS
STICKS WIZZARD DRAGON
www.myspace.com/sticksextremxx

[blade123]

EVERYTHING THAT A DRUMMER PLAYS, OTHER THEN A CHAIN OF RIGHTS, OR A CHAIN OF LEFTS IS A RUDIMENT, OR A COMBINATION OF RUDIMENTS!!!!

There is no exception to that. I dare anyone on here to find something that is NOT a rudiment, or not a series of lefts or rights.

[Pat Petrillo]

Learning the rudiments "just to learn them" is not important, unless you put them to use, or are taught to use them, as a means of expression. I believe most drummers "sort of" learn them, by that I mean they read them from a book and play thru them, but they don't MEMORIZE them. That's the key to really being able to use them, and thats to have many of them in your muscle memory, so you can pull them out when you need to, with various musical phrases and combinations.

So, the rudiments are only as essential as YOU allow them to be ! If you don't want to learn them, it's not a big deal for most "groove" playing. However, sooner or later, certain voicings will present themselves, and various new stickings will need to be explrored to improve expression.

Good Luck, and all the best!

[mrchattr]

There's another reason, short of what's listed here, that learning rudiments is so important. I think of rudiments as a sort of "get out of jail free" card. A lot of my friends/fans who have seen me play multiple times always say they are amazed at the fact that I never, ever, ever mess up when playing live. But that's not true, of course. The fact of the matter is that we all go for fills, etc, and don't nail them. However, by being very knowledgable of your various rudiments, etc, you can usually figure a way out of the mess you made so that it's not a noticable mistake to the audience.

A very simplistic example of what I am talking about:
A drummer with no knowledge of paradiddles is playing a basic rock tune, and goes to play a simple 16-th note fill. Four beats, one beat on each of his drums. Basic, 6th grade stuff. Anyway, he slows down on the third beat, and only fits three hits into the beat before having to move to the floor tom for beat four. This means that he is starting the 16th notes on his left hand, which may throw him off as he tries to transition back to the hi-hat. However, in that situation, I would just play a left paradiddle on the floor tom, and my right hand would be ready to come back in on the first beat.

Again, this is a simplistic example, but it makes the point...they can REALLY help you get out of a sticky situation!

Also, music is a language. The more words you know, the better you can express yourself. Think of it like an argument. Often, when arguing with someone, you have to quickly pull out the right words, string them together, and create something coherent. The more words you know, the better you can express yourself. This is the same as improvisational drumming.