Depressing DW Dilemma

[CJH2112]

I was taking my Evans G2 coated heads off my DW kit today and putting the heads on my Pacific FS kit to see how they would sound and noticed on my DW 10'' tom that the wrap was cracking and pulling away from the shell. The BIG issue is DW has discontinued Red diamond finishply.

I wonder how much it would cost to repair this or even if it is worth it? This is also happening on my bass drum except the wrap is only cracked and has not pulled away. Has anyone had this issue with DW finishply? These drums are 11 years old and have been from the cold to warm temperatures which is probably the reason this has happened.

Chuck

[The Ploughman]

Dont you get like a 25 year quality warranty with those drums? Ayotte Custom comes with a 25 year quality warranty. Wrap does crack, for dozens of reasons. But it should be covered. As for the color, its still out there DW wasnt the only one to use it. Chances are its all from the same dye lot..

[burnthehero]

If DW can't/won't fix the problem, I'm sure one of the many custom drum finishers could help you. They might have access to the same materials DW used.

[drumr0]

Yes, my first set of DW's did this and they ended up replacing the whole kit, (check my signature for the whole story post #21.) My current set of DW's is doing the same thing. It doesn't bother me too much because it's not very noticable but the finish ply is cracking and pulling away at the seams just a little. These drums have spent most of their life in a climate controlled church.

When I got my 2nd kit in '94, the guys at Forks Drum Closet had a green sparkle wrap kit doing the same thing.

How old is your kit?

My 1st set of DW's was an 89 or 90 model and my 2nd (current) kit was made in early 1994.

[CJH2112]

It is 11 years old and manufactured in 1996.

[xush]

we have a kit at our studio that is roughly that age, I'm pretty sure, but it had the wrap problem almost immediately after purchasing it. They repaired it once, and if I recall correctly it happened again and they ended up replacing the kit, it was giving us so much trouble (I wasn't there then, but have heard the horror stories)

[drumr0]

Here are some pictures of my wrap. This on the 14" tom and bass drum. The other drums are not bad.

[The Ploughman]

You need to contact DW directly. That my friend is a lot of shrinkage. My 44 year old Rogers kit with a much more fragile wrap is still in perfect condition.

[ds1provisioner]

Man! My sincere condolances!.....That would bum me out to the max.

[CJH2112]

Now I don't feel so bad.

[burnthehero]

Now that I think about it, this isn't the first time I've heard of DW having problems with their wraps. When I got my custom sparkle kit, I remember the shop owner telling me about their wraps being shoddy for one reason or another. I think what it boils down to is poor quality materials. I wouldn't think the application would have anything to do with the wrap cracking. Either way, if DW takes their products seriously, they should be able to help you out.

[The Ploughman]

I work in construction, and processes greatly affect the ability of the product to age well. Wrap is basically a laminate applied over wood. The process has a lot to do with its ability to age. End user handling is also a factor. Not just the quality of the materials. All of these factors combine and that combination is what produces durability. If enough of the limit parameters are violated, the product will simply not endure.

Wrap that is applied above or below recommended temperature ranges, adhesive that is not covered within the proper time limits, adhesive that is underapplied or over applied, wrap that is nicked at edges and not filed out, a wrapped cylinder that is subjected to extremes of heat and cold, ....... all of that is capable of producing the right sequence of criteria which will result in pulling and cracking.

A good wrap job should last for the lifetime of the material. Some material is more durable than others. But MODERN wrap materials in use on musical instruments now, are of an entirely different composition than what was used 40 years ago. They are more durable, less prone to shrinking and cracking, less likely to fade, less likely to gingerale or blotch, or yellow.

What you have is unacceptable, if you have properly cared for your drums.

I notice that there are no isolation gaskets on your lugs......... is that how they are doing it now? When did they make the change? And for what reason? I dont play DW. I have Ayotte Custom, and those do have isolation gaskets on the lugs. I also have a lacquer finish. But it seems like your cracks all run through metal to shell contact points. And that........ could well be a quality control point.

[drumr0]

I have been thinking about this thread for the last few days pondering what to do. It has never
really bothered me that my wrap has done this. I basically got this kit for free. If DW was to replace the kit again, I would have to start all over (I like kits that have a little age on them to mellow out the wood).

But, if I do nothing about it the wrap will probably get worse as time goes on. I probably will contact DW on this to see what they say. This kit is finally sounding the way I want it to. Maybe it can be repaired.

[KarlCrafton]

Man, sincerely, that sucks big time.

I have a friend that had to send his DW kit back because of wrap problems, and I think his kit was made around the same time as yours too.

I don't think his finish cracked, but it came apart at the seams on a couple drums pretty bad.

His kit doesn't have the rubber gaskets either.

I'm kinda torn weather the gaskets make for a 'better" sound anyway.

I've heard plenty of new drums, where they were taken off, & old drums without them, that sound great.

The protection of the finish is nice I guess, if you're gonna take the lugs off the drum and admire the holes....haha.

I left the lug gaskets on my new Ludwig kit, but drums I've had in the past didn't come with them.

When I later added drums, they came with gaskets, so I ordered a bunch of gaskets and put 'em on the older drums so they all matched.

I don't think there was a "better" sound between with or without them.

From my drumshop guy's, I've heard of people's DW finishes being "rubbed off" down to the wood (at the point of contact of the circular rubber piece, and the painted finish) with DW's wrap around tom mounts too.

That would really suck if you paid for a high dollar finish!

[Les Ismore]

I would e mail a link to this thread to DW.

[timmdrum]

it seems like your cracks all run through metal to shell contact points. And that........ could well be a quality control point.

That sounds like it could be a result of the lug mounting screws being tightened too tight.

[drumr0]

That sounds like it could be a result of the lug mounting screws being tightened too tight.


It could be, I have never had the lugs off. I occasionally check them and snug them up if they have worked loose, but I have not overtightened them.

[Les Ismore]

This could be the result of the Camco lug design DW uses which has a big foot print. The circle has the effect of 'lifting' (whatever is outside itself) in all directions as pressure is applied on the plastic wrap-which is not a solid base. Add to it- if the curveature at the base of the lug doesn't match the curvature of the shell/wrap- more uneven tension.

When tension is applied to any lug, there's some amount of lifting, large foot-print of the Camco design means more area is affected. Large circle is great when its bolted down tight and never receives opposing force-tension. This is all happening atop an unstable glue layer which never gets hard and actually (depending on the environment) fluctuates in sponginess. A recipe for disaster when applied to the wrapped drum shell model.

[The Ploughman]

There are people who work for drum manufacturing companies with impressive degrees from very expensive universities, .......... and they havent figured out any of this.

[Les Ismore]

There are people who work for drum manufacturing companies with impressive degrees from very expensive universities

.Don't count on it, though @ 200,000 + sets a year out the door, DW should have it more together. IMO they need a new lug design, or at least an alternative.

[drumr0]

I have emailed DW my situation and have sent a link to this thread along with the photos I posted. Let's wait and see what happens.

[drumr0]

Here's what DW sent me back....

Thank you for choosing DW! Our drums are under manufacturer warranty for 6 years,
the longest in the market where every other drum manufacture warranties their drums
for 5 years. Unfortunately, if your drums were made in 1993 - 1994, they are 14 -
15 years old, and consequently out of warranty. However, there are a couple of
companies you can find online that offer re-wrapping/re-finishing services. One
such company is www.precisiondrum.com. Sorry for any inconvenience this has caused
you.

best regards,

Erik Himbert
Customer Service Representative
Drum Workshop, Inc.

Sounds like I am out of luck unless I want to have it repaired by another company. I could probably find some one in Nashville to do it, but I probably won't yet. I don't have any plans to sell this kit so I will just keep on playing it and keep a good eye to make sure it doesn't get any worse.

[The Ploughman]

Ayotte has long warrantied their drums to the original purchaser for 25 years.

Jack Lawton is the best there is. His reputation is .... way up there. Its not going to be cheap.

[drumr0]

I sent DW an email back stating that Ayotte warranties their drums for 25 years, so hopefully they won't misinform anyone else with "having the longest drum warranty."

[Big_Philly]

End user abuse or not, that is way more shrinkage than acceptable.

[KarlCrafton]

I can tell you from my experience, if you send your drums to Presicion drums, they'll do a great job for you.

[Les Ismore]

Moral of the story: Don't buy a wrapped drum set.

[Jeff Almeyda]

Moral of the story: Don't buy a wrapped drum set.

and DW is way overrated.

[zambizzi]

and DW is way overrated.

You can't see me...but I'm sighing AND rolling my eyes.

[hateplow]

and DW is way overrated.

Seems like every DW thread has one of these posts.
This problem occurs with many drum companies, and is one of the risks associated with a wrap finish. I think it happens to like every fifth OCDP kit.

[zambizzi]

Seems like every DW thread has one of these posts.

Exactly...we've heard it more than enough times...moving on.

Mine has a wrap and I suspect that after 10+ yrs. of use (practice, gigging, transport, changing/tuning heads, etc.) - the wrap may start to show its age and have problems.

Consider the price difference between a wrap finish and a satin oil finish (the next step up)...you get what you pay for.

[Jeff Almeyda]

Seems like every DW thread has one of these posts.
This problem occurs with many drum companies, and is one of the risks associated with a wrap finish. I think it happens to like every fifth OCDP kit.

That's a cop-out if I've ever heard one. OCDP is even more overrated than DW so let's not even go there.

How come I don't see threads on Pearl wraps ever coming off?

BTW, I have a DW kit yet I still believe that it is overrated. My next kit will be a custom stave set. Now THAT'S worth the money.

[rmandelbaum]

I love my 2 over rated DW kits. ;-)

I have the wrapped "finish ply" kit for gigging, I am far less worried about a wrap then a painted finish.

[zambizzi]

I have a DW kit yet I still believe that it is overrated. My next kit will be a custom stave set.

There's 3 things we have in common...

However, I *have* seen the wrap coming off of a Pearl kit...I was there...it happened.

[drumr0]

I would say that DW is overrated too, but I love these drums and they sound fantastic. I explained in my email to DW that this set of drums spent 90% of its life in a climate controlled church, 9% of its life in my climate control garage and 1% of its life gigging. They have been well taken care of.

I would take a stain/lacquer any day over a wrap because of this problem.

KarlCrafton: Did it cost a lot to have your drums re-wrapped? It's not very high on my priority list, but something I may do one day.

[The Ploughman]

This guys wrap problems stem from dw being "way overrated"?

Are you saying the wrapped shell from another drum company would not do this?


Over Rated or not. any wrap can succumb to shrinkage and cracking.

My two 60s Rogers sets have neither shrinkage nor cracking.

[myfrienddrums]

I think it's safe to say wrapped finishes will be extinct in the near future. Even old pioneers of the wrapped finishes like Ludwig are beginning to lacquer their sparkle finishes on their new Legacy drum line. It's just not a practical method of finishing a drum anymore. You would think that a company as innovative as DW would have switched to the new process, but time will tell.

anyway, sorry about your kit and anyone planning on getting a wrapped kit needs to think about what could happen over time.

[drumr0]

Keep in mind that this is my 2nd set of DW's that have done this. I had a Pearl Export that never did this and I abused those poor things to death.

[myfrienddrums]

Keep in mind that this is my 2nd set of DW's that have done this. I had a Pearl Export that never did this and I abused those poor things to death.

Well in that case I agree with Les Ismore's lug theory. I think Les Ismore has a great point in that it has to do with the large footprint of the DW lug. It's hard to believe that a Pearl Export would have a higher quality wrap than a high end DW kit so this is likely the reason for the DW dilemma.

[milkbetweenorangejuice]

That my friend is a lot of shrinkage.

"I was in the pool! I was in the pool!"

[The Ploughman]

"I was in the pool! I was in the pool!"

Thats probably the ONLY episode of that show I ever saw.

These drums were made in 1966. .......
Wraps were much more prone to shrinkage, cracking, fading, and the whole list of problems associated with earlier plastics. These seams are just as tight now as when they left the factory. And .... from the pics Ive seen, and what I know of the manufacturing processes used, as well as the people doing the actual work... its impossible to believe Rogers built a higher quality product than is being turned out now by a high end modern drum manufacturer.

http://inlinethumb33.webshots.com/22496/2265291780028342110S600x600Q85.jpg

[Drums558]

That's a cop-out if I've ever heard one. OCDP is even more overrated than DW so let's not even go there.

How come I don't see threads on Pearl wraps ever coming off?

BTW, I have a DW kit yet I still believe that it is overrated. My next kit will be a custom stave set. Now THAT'S worth the money.

I also own a DW kit and believe they are overrated. I mentioned this to some local DW supporters and now they laugh and sneer at me, oh well.
I could have had a sweet Unix kit for what I paid for my DW's, and had some money left over for another snare drum.

Mike

[pearlygates]

dw will never see a penny of my money. I have seen this happen all too often! at the prices they charge for even the finishply shell packs..you could have yourself a sweet Pearl Reference kit. Better engineered and built (allbeit not totally by hand) and the BEST customer service in the industry!

[druid]

Reading this thread makes me happy to have a laquered exotic finish on my DWs....I liek the wood look anyway. ;-)

[drumr0]

Reading this thread makes me happy to have a laquered exotic finish on my DWs....I liek the wood look anyway. ;-)

If I ever buy another kit of any brand, it will be laquered!! I've had enough with bad wraps.

[joeybeats]

I want those Rogers. Joey

[jeremiah]

FWIW, Pearl only applies glue to the seams of their wraps. Whereas DW, Sonor and the rest seem to coat the entire shell in glue. Even though the Pearl wraps don't look as nice since I've seen brand new kits with air gaps between the shell and the wrap. I would think this would be a little more foregiving when the wraps start to expand or shrink.