odd entries, something I have trouble with.

[Muffled Tom]

I'm not sure on the terminology, but something I have trouble with are odd-timed entries or re-entries to a song; as in, all the instruments stop completely, then come back on all together completely out of the blue, meaning there is no previous indication for me as to when to hit the crash and come back in. When you're in a band, it's easy to work out with the other guys, but when you're playing along to a recording, not so much.

Now I'm no n00b, but this is a problem that has really been pissing me off for a lot of songs. One solution is to count off through the pause, but when I'm caught up in the song, I can't remember to do so. Plus, in some cases I know when to come in from the feel, but this isn't exactly trustworthy.

Any tips?

[DestinationDrumming]

Sounds like you're answering your own question. You are right, if you count off during the rests then you know when to come in. Without counting it's easy to distort your perception of time and come in late or early.

[Muffled Tom]

Sounds like you're answering your own question. You are right, if you count off during the rests then you know when to come in. Without counting it's easy to distort your perception of time and come in late or early.

This may work in most cases, but there are certain songs where the band comes back in off time in ways I can't figure out, for an example of what I mean listen to "Smile Lines" by Incubus. There are other songs that seem like they come in at random times like "Lonely Like You" by Foo Fighters, but in fact the time signature changes during the pause so the entry sounds off.

[44Ronin]

Tap your foot in time....

[lochday]

You must know exactly how long the pause is. Even if there is a pause, the pulse is going on, so you can figure out how long it is by counting the beats. To be sure, the best thing to do is to write it musically or even better to get the musical score where everything, time sig, melody, structure and form, is noted (except the drum parts) and just readplay it. More often than not you can feel how long it is if you know the song, its melody, etc. If the signature changes during the pause, then it is more complicated but the same rule applies. Sometimes a song begins inside a bar, that is not on the one but on the second, third or fourth beat. (forgot what it's called) Of course you have to know it in order not to play inside out. Generally no problem if you always know where the one is...

[Mediocrefunkybeat]

Go and listen to '21st Century Schizoid Man' by King Crimson, specifically the 'Mirrors' section. Now tell me how to count that, because I've been feeling since I learned the song. Really it's all about feel and listening. Keep listening to the song and you'll be able to feel it.

[foursticks]

I say trust your instinct. It'll be hard at first and I was really unsure on going by feel when I started doing big band and kept losing myself, but I was told that we humans have a natural ability to feel 4 bar phrases. Trust that ability, it will guide you far. Experience and practise is what it takes in the end and the path is a frustrating one, but it pays off.

[zambizzi]

This is when tapping your left heel to 1/4 or 1/8 notes really pays off. Once it becomes natural you'll laugh at how you used to "guess" where to come in, based on feel alone.

[Deltadrummer]

This is when tapping your left heel to 1/4 or 1/8 notes really pays off. Once it becomes natural you'll laugh at how you used to "guess" where to come in, based on feel alone.

yes, it's about subdividing, no?

I 'feel' you always need to count, and I am always counting. Even in 4/4. But for me the numbers and feeling have no distinction One is a feeling Two is a feeling Three is a feeling etc . . and when you play with syncopation, you are playing with the feeling that these numbers would normally have; it is the same thing when you are adding a measure of 5/8 or 7/8. You are playing with the feel.

[Muffled Tom]

I say trust your instinct. It'll be hard at first and I was really unsure on going by feel when I started doing big band and kept losing myself, but I was told that we humans have a natural ability to feel 4 bar phrases. Trust that ability, it will guide you far. Experience and practise is what it takes in the end and the path is a frustrating one, but it pays off.

Feeling is what I mostly go by, because most songs easily enough 4/4 and nearly always come in on 1 and if not its still relatively easy.
But I think you're right, practice the song enough and you'll get it. I happen to be in a big band as well, and there was this one part in "Sweet Georgia Brown" where I'd come in at the wrong time and then one of the trombonists who is an a-hole would laugh at me. Then after a while I picked up on perfectly.
Thanks for the advice everyone!