My "Mangini" workout... need opinions

[h3r3tic]

I've heard that Mike Mangini's theory on "ingraining" a pattern into your nerveous system for 90 minutes, 4 times per week for 6 weeks is extremely effective.

So I'm thinking on doing this for 90 minutes:

4 bars of singles
4 bars of doubles
4 bars of paradiddles
4 bars of triplets
4 bars of 4 strokes (LLLL then RRRR) using the fingers

while playing a single stroke roll on the feet at a confortable tempo.

Now... for all of those who defend Mike Mangini's theory, do you think that this exercise that I'll do will work?


P.S: sorry for the thread that I posted on the "your gear" section, my bad ;)

[MikeyOdrums]

Your correct in that it takes that much time to get a new concept to become part of your playing vocabulary. He has a a bunch of counting exercizes that you help become more familiar with different times. He has all times sigs up to 19 and he counts them 1 + 2 + 3 + 4 + 5 + 6 + 7 + 8 + 9 + 10. By taking these excersizes you practice counting them 100 times a piece. Then you practice playing over them while you count, this helps you internalize the feel, and time. Its takes some time but it really helps if you are looking to play in like 7 or something take "7" 1 + 2 + 3 + 4 (count 1 and 2 and etc etc) do that 100 times FIRST then start counting it again and play over it WHILE you count. Mike's take on it is that the time becomes internalized you can play over it and never NOT know where the one is. It really works well.
I studied with him for like 5-6 months and he really helped me a lot. With his foot technique and hand technique as well. I just couldn't afford 100/hour anymore!!! YIKES.
hope this helps
Mike o

[h3r3tic]

that sounds awesome! but I wanted an opinion about my workout that I posted on the thread... what do you guys think?

[jonescrusher]

If you can stick with that for more than two sessions you're a god amongst men, and deserve to be as good as Mike Mangini. The routine will work to ingrain those movements into your muscle memory, and if you are disciplined then you'll get results quickly. However, the mental strength needed to stick to that for an hour and a half is immense.
You may also need to do some priming work on order to get the coordination down between hands and feet - you don't want to be working on it and stopping and starting the exercises during the 90 minute run.
As usual, you need be sure that your hand technique is good, otherwise you could be re-enforcing bad habits. That said, if you have bad grip, you'll be feeling severe burn after 15 minutes or so.....

[Jeff Almeyda]

I currently study with Mike and I need to tell you you have made an error in your basic assumption.

Mike claims that if your practice a certain motion for 90 minutes at a time nonstop for at least 4 x weekly for 6 weeks then you will make a significant increase in that motion and it will stay that way for a long time even if you don't practice it again.

Your exercise is not concentrating on one motion. You have singles, doubles and combinations thereof in the exercise. Those all require different motions. You're then throwing a double kick roll under that. There's no way you can properly record the motions into your nervous system. It's too much being thrown at once. You must realize that practicing Mike's way requires an almost zen-like level of concentration and kinesthetic awareness.

Here's what it sounds like in my head while I practice in Mike's way: "left hand drooping, pick it up, left butt cheek tensing, relax it, right hand higher, lower it"etc.This is what your internal dialogue should sound like. You must be totally aware of what you are doing and be constantly correcting it to make sure what you record into your system is correct.

Do just singles for 90 minutes. Not just singles but a certain type of motion, in other words, wrist stroke or finger or Moeller. I recommend wrists. Start anywhere from 60 -100 BPM. You can play different groupings of singles but no doubles flams or whatnot. tap your feet in quarter notes. I played single strokes with my feet at 30 BPM for 6 straight 90 minute sessions last year.

I practice using Mike method's almost exclusively now and I am getting more out of my practice time than ever before. Other people look at me and say that I'm an animal when I sit down to play a double bass roll for 90 minutes. I just figure I'll get the most out of my time in the practice room.

[Mr. Pasquini]

You people are monsters. That's all.

[zazzypuddinginatube]

dudes are haus's in the art

[abe]

I currently study with Mike and I need to tell you you have made an error in your basic assumption.

Mike claims that if your practice a certain motion for 90 minutes at a time nonstop for at least 4 x weekly for 6 weeks then you will make a significant increase in that motion and it will stay that way for a long time even if you don't practice it again.

Your exercise is not concentrating on one motion. You have singles, doubles and combinations thereof in the exercise. Those all require different motions. You're then throwing a double kick roll under that. There's no way you can properly record the motions into your nervous system. It's too much being thrown at once. You must realize that practicing Mike's way requires an almost zen-like level of concentration and kinesthetic awareness.

Here's what it sounds like in my head while I practice in Mike's way: "left hand drooping, pick it up, left butt cheek tensing, relax it, right hand higher, lower it"etc.This is what your internal dialogue should sound like. You must be totally aware of what you are doing and be constantly correcting it to make sure what you record into your system is correct.

Do just singles for 90 minutes. Not just singles but a certain type of motion, in other words, wrist stroke or finger or Moeller. I recommend wrists. Start anywhere from 60 -100 BPM. You can play different groupings of singles but no doubles flams or whatnot. tap your feet in quarter notes. I played single strokes with my feet at 30 BPM for 6 straight 90 minute sessions last year.

I practice using Mike method's almost exclusively now and I am getting more out of my practice time than ever before. Other people look at me and say that I'm an animal when I sit down to play a double bass roll for 90 minutes. I just figure I'll get the most out of my time in the practice room.

I started this exercise one and half week ago and till now I've skipped only one day.

I'm doing only bare hand double with left hand(since I feel it's the weakest part of my basic technique) 90 min every day on my Beatnik rhythm analyzer. First day it was hell, second day it was hard, after week it's even fun. My strokes' accuracy is growing really fast. Also I noticed that while I'm trying to be as precise as possible, my breathing gets irregular. So now I'm working on relaxed breathing too.

Jeff is it ok to play it 50 BPM barehand or it's still too fast? I

[Legacyrik]

You must realize that practicing Mike's way requires an almost zen-like level of concentration and kinesthetic awareness.

Here's what it sounds like in my head while I practice in Mike's way: "left hand drooping, pick it up, left butt cheek tensing, relax it, right hand higher, lower it"etc.This is what your internal dialogue should sound like. You must be totally aware of what you are doing and be constantly correcting it to make sure what you record into your system is correct.


Hmm, I must say that is not very Zen like though. Way too much concentrating of what is actually taken place. Seems like I do way too much thinking as it is:)

[Jeff Almeyda]

I started this exercise one and half week ago and till now I've skipped only one day.

I'm doing only bare hand double with left hand(since I feel it's the weakest part of my basic technique) 90 min every day on my Beatnik rhythm analyzer. First day it was hell, second day it was hard, after week it's even fun. My strokes' accuracy is growing really fast. Also I noticed that while I'm trying to be as precise as possible, my breathing gets irregular. So now I'm working on relaxed breathing too.

Jeff is it ok to play it 50 BPM barehand or it's still too fast? I

50 BPM is definitely a great place to start. Have you tried it with sticks and seen if it helped?

[Jeff Almeyda]

Hmm, I must say that is not very Zen like though. Way too much concentrating of what is actually taken place. Seems like I do way too much thinking as it is:)

I see what you mean.

The goal is to be able to play comfortably (not "think") but only by paying extreme attention to everything going on can we ever reach that "no think" zone.

[abe]

50 BPM is definitely a great place to start. Have you tried it with sticks and seen if it helped?

Well, it might sound bit stupid but I had very simple reasoning why start to practice barehand. I had problems with my doubles. I can play rrl or lrr quiet clean and fast but when I do llr or just simple double stroke roll it's no more clean. So I started to analyze what's my problem. well the grip for both hands are not bad, it's of course not perfect and I'm sure that there is still some bad habits. I tried to play double stroke with bare hands and noticed that my right arm has faster wriste doubles. If I play single stroke roll with each hand separately the difference isn't that big. I guess my right hand has slower reflexes for doubles. So I decided to develope first my left hands wrist in a very basic level with no rebound, with no grip issues or fingers.

Thanks for your previous answer!

[spleen]

I played single strokes with my feet at 30 BPM for 6 straight 90 minute sessions last year.



Hi Jeff,

Thanks for sharing some of your experience. Just to be clear, did you play 16th notes @ 30 BPM or some other permutation? Also, I'm assuming you did either heel up or down but didn't alternate between the two------correct?

Thanks!

spleen

[Jeff Almeyda]

Hi Jeff,

Thanks for sharing some of your experience. Just to be clear, did you play 16th notes @ 30 BPM or some other permutation? Also, I'm assuming you did either heel up or down but didn't alternate between the two------correct?

Thanks!

spleen

16th note combinations only. Heel up ankle motion the whole time. To be fair, after the first three sessions I kicked it up to 35 BPM.

Nowadays, I practice the same motion but at different tempos. I may do 20 mins at 60 BPM, 20 mins at 65 BPM 25 minutes at 40 BPM, 25 at 85 BPM... You get the idea.

But remember, this method only works if you use the same technique when you practice slowly as when you play fast. Practice slowly the way you want to play fast.

[spleen]

16th note combinations only. Heel up ankle motion the whole time. To be fair, after the first three sessions I kicked it up to 35 BPM.

Nowadays, I practice the same motion but at different tempos. I may do 20 mins at 60 BPM, 20 mins at 65 BPM 25 minutes at 40 BPM, 25 at 85 BPM... You get the idea.

But remember, this method only works if you use the same technique when you practice slowly as when you play fast. Practice slowly the way you want to play fast.

Got it--thanks for sharing. I'm curious, what benefits have you noticed from this so far?

Thanks,

spleen