steel vs. maple snares

[parksung]

what are the main differences between steel snares and maple ones?

i've got a maple one now (Black Panther) that rings like mad, and no matter who tunes it, it still rings. i'm still trying different heads (will try Genera Dry next), but i'm about to sell the damn thing.

[Raymond Bloom]

what are the main differences between steel snares and maple ones?

i've got a maple one now (Black Panther) that rings like mad, and no matter who tunes it, it still rings. i'm still trying different heads (will try Genera Dry next), but i'm about to sell the damn thing.
so, the good news is... stell shells will ring a lot more...! :-)

the truth is... drums ring!! that's natural, you'll never achieve the sound you hear on recordings etc...! what you really need to understand is that there are two types of ''ring'' sound:

1) ring that is caused by bad tuning
2) the natural ring of a drum

I have a Black Panther 14x5,5 maple with a coated Ambassador as a batter side head and for me the biggest problem is that it sounds too dead to me!

[Deathmetalconga]

what are the main differences between steel snares and maple ones?

i've got a maple one now (Black Panther) that rings like mad, and no matter who tunes it, it still rings. i'm still trying different heads (will try Genera Dry next), but i'm about to sell the damn thing.

One of the advantages of ply construction is that the glue helps control excess ring. You shouldn't be having this much ring from a maple ply shell unless it is extremely thick. You should try thicker heads and other things to control the ring.

[aruration]

Switch snare drums then :p

[Wavelength]

Here's a tip for all of you who don't want your drums to ring: don't play them!

Joking aside, here are a few real tips.

1) Tune the snare drum properly: the resonant side fairly tight and the batter side a bit lower than that, all lugs even.
2) Adjust the snare strainer so that no matter where you strike the drum, the snares' rattle is always at least as long as the snare's ring.
3) Strike the batter head dead-center. Most of the ringing problems arise from the fact that people hit the damn thing all over the place un-intentionally. Off-center rimshots are often the biggest culprits.
4) Use a striking angle that is perpendicular to the skin. In other words, when the stick hits the head, it should be almost level with the drum. An angular approach will contribute to a bad drum sound.
5) Should you need a less lively sound, use a bit of tape, moongel or dampening rings to make the head heavier. Don't go overboard with this. Excess dampening is detrimental to the sound and playing feel ot the drum.

I believe the third point is the most critical in achieving a great snare sound. Striking off-center will create an artificial node (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Node_%28physics%29) which accentuates the head's overtones and diminishes its fundamental note. Striking the head right in the center will not create any nodes and the head's (and drum's) fundamental note is more pronounced, creating a less complex, drier sound. The striking angle is also important. If you strike a head at an angle, you'll force it to vibrate it in an angle that is off the vertical axis. A perpendicular stroke aligns the head's movements perfectly with this axis, resulting in a less complex sound that has a pronounced fundamental note.

So, before selling your snare, try tuning it up and polishing your stick work.

[Big_Philly]

1) Tune the snare drum properly: the resonant side fairly tight and the batter side a bit lower than that, all lugs even.


I have it the other way around, low resonant head tension and the batter very tight... But I'm gonna try out what you just said.

[stickers]

what did the drum tech say about drums sound after he tuned it?

Have you heard the drum at distance?

Its a new 14x5.5 maple snare... you should be able to get that baby sounding super sexy.

[zambizzi]

I'd like to add another question to this thread, rather than starting a new one.

Amongst the different types of metallic snares, what are the major differences? I've played aluminum, steel, and maple snares. I've never spent enough time with any metal snares to understand the finer differences.

Compared to a high-end maple snare, what are the differing characteristics of the following types of snares:

- Brass
- Copper
- Bronze
- Aluminum
- Stainless Steel
- Magnesium (I know Crazyhorse makes these...)

...please add any I may not have thought of...I'm sure there are many more. There are also several variations of metal snares which I'm interested in hearing about, such as:

- Ludwig Black Beauty
- hammered snares - what does this do to the sound of the drum?
- knurled finishes - is this for looks or tone?
- cast metal snares

Also, I want to throw a jab in here...some ringing in your snare is a GOOD thing! If you tune it well...you should get some ring...and this is the beauty of the snare drum. You can get several types of sounds out of it depending on where you play it.

I had a Genera Dry on my snare and eventually grew bored with it. I slapped a coated ambassador on there recently and wouldn't consider anything else, going forward.

[Class A Drummer]

Simple way to stop the ringing really. Just tighten the snares. If you dont know how to do this, just turn the little knob next to the thing that turns the snares on and off clockwise.

Also, you can use moongel, or dampening rings (i prefer the rings myself).

[Wavelength]

Simple way to stop the ringing really. Just tighten the snares.

This is just plain wrong. Choking the snares and the resonant head only makes the ringing worse: because the snares and the resonant head can't respond to the batter head's vibrations, the batter head's ring is clearly audible. Besides, a snare with a choked resonant head and snare wires sounds awful anyways.

[harryconway]

Back in the "old days", most snares had an adjustable felt pad to contact the batter head or not, to help with this. Running a felt strip under your batter head might take out a lot of the "unwanted" ring. So might running a Powerstroke 3 head batter. Having spare snare heads is "always" a good thing, so even if you do decide to get rid of the B.P., 14" heads do come in handy. And in the event that this was one of those "free" snares you get when you buy a Mapex kit...

[metal overlord]

I had the same problem with my old snare drum. It had so much ring, it wiped away everything else. It sounded like a bongo, or even a doorbell. I took it to everyone i could, guitar center, my drum teacher, ect. They all said its tuned perfectly, i went thru almost a dosen heads (batters, resos, even wires!), and it ended up just being a bad snare drum. So i sold it. since then, i only been playing with 1 snare drum.

[Class A Drummer]

This is just plain wrong. Choking the snares and the resonant head only makes the ringing worse: because the snares and the resonant head can't respond to the batter head's vibrations, the batter head's ring is clearly audible. Besides, a snare with a choked resonant head and snare wires sounds awful anyways.
I disagree. It definitley does take the ring away, but yest it makes the snare sound worse if it gets really tight.

[Raymond Bloom]

I don't get it, if there is some ring you want to eliminate and you can't achieve that result with tuning... put on some moon gel, duct tape or something like that!

[Raymond Bloom]

I disagree. It definitley does take the ring away, but yest it makes the snare sound worse if it gets really tight.
Wavelength is right! the resonant head can't respond to the batter head's vibrations if those snares are choking the head!

The ring usually comes from the top head, not bottom, because snare wires dampen the reso head and like with every other drum, you need to find the right tuning for both heads so they work together not against each other, bad tuned reso head can spoil the sound as much as bad tuned batter head

[Velimor]

Amongst the different types of metallic snares, what are the major differences?

http://pearldrummersforum.com/showthread.php?t=146082&page=1&pp=12

Most of the reviews are for exotic woods, but there's a Carbon Fiber on the bottom of page 1 and a copper on page 3.

[stickers]

i like how parksung creates thread and then never checks back. yup and fact.. not.

[Guillermo]

Ok... as far as your questions.

The main difference would be tone, then ring, volume and sustain.

Metal is much denser than wood, yet being THINNER the acoustic chamber inside the drum will be bigger, hence you have diferent character, wich is a mix between bright and harsh and also more "hollow" sounding.

A wood snare drum, to my knowledge would ring MORE if it's thinner, not if thicker as said before... for the reasons stated on a previous thread about plies and glues interrupting the sympathetic sound waves that create ring... also the waves don't travel as fast on wood, all this combines for the character often referred as "warm"... wich is not metallic sounding.

As far as different metals, here's my take:

First off, the difference material makes is PALES IN COMPARISON to head selection, size, proportion, tuning and the actual stroke technique...

Steel would be darker sounding than both brass and alluminum... also less resonant, this is because most steel is chrome plated.
Brass will be bright, yet have a certain warmness to it...
Bronze will be brighter and have a more pronounced sustain (notto be confused with longer decay)
As far as Titanium, Magnesium and other exotic metals, I eally can't give you an opinion... I have only played limited times on drumns like these and have not the sufficient knowledge to give you a grounded opinion.

Good luck!

[parksung]

i like how parksung creates thread and then never checks back. yup and fact.. not.

for the record, i do check back. just because i don't comment doesn't mean i'm not here.

dude, relax! the purpose of this forum is to post and read, comment when necessary. there's no 'rule' that says there must be 10 replies to one's post.

well, now i'll know NOT to check back to your replies since they obviously miss the point (ie. read the thread title and answer to THAT topic).

have a drink and pump some iron but don't take out your frustrations here please.

[Wavelength]

for the record, i do check back. just because i don't comment doesn't mean i'm not here.

Well, have you taken heed to the advice or will you rather keep banging your head to the wall?

[Big_Philly]

Well, have you taken heed to the advice or will you rather keep banging your head to the wall?

I know I've taken your advice on snare tuning (batter head slightly looser than resonant head) and it really makes my snare drum sound better. It was sounding alright before but seems to have more of a crack and less sustaining ring now. But I am not Parksung.

For the record, I do have the tension rods around the snare butt and strainer quite loosely as to reduce the buzzing I get when I hit my toms. It still buzzes along to my 10" a little bit though, but nothing too problematic. The other toms don't cause buzzing.

[parksung]

Well, have you taken heed to the advice or will you rather keep banging your head to the wall?

of course, i've taken the advice. have you stopped masterbating with your little dick?

[zambizzi]

of course, i've taken the advice. have you stopped masterbating with your little dick?

That's just not necessary.

[Wavelength]

of course, i've taken the advice. have you stopped masterbating with your little dick?

Good for you. And to reply your question, no I haven't, since this activity has many clinically proven health benefits.

[Ozzy Biz]

of course, i've taken the advice. have you stopped masterbating with your little dick?
quit your jibber jabber fool, or you're gonna meet my friend PAIN! you're pathetic.

*puts on best Mr T impersonation

[aydee]

Hey, Ozzi, is the jarrah on its way? ; )

[Ozzy Biz]

Hey, Ozzi, is the jarrah on its way? ; )

Yeah, should have it by Xmas. Tell you what, after spending a few hours today on my kit with PDP snare, I can't wait for it to get here.
It's made christmas as exciting about as it was when I was in primary school.

[aruration]

The hand hammered snare drums tend to be more tamed, much quiter as an unhammered snare drum would be.

Ok anyway, I think the ring has also to do with the snare bed and the bearing edge.

Here's a chart from the pearl website:

[Big_Philly]

of course, i've taken the advice. have you stopped masterbating with your little dick?

Public profile says he's 37 years old, I find that hard to believe with comments like these...

[thumper]

My late 60's steel Yamaha snare has the internal adjustable muffler, so I can get a real nice ring and "crack" to it with it off, or a more "papery", quieter tone to it when I have it applied to its maximum tension.
I used to own a Tama Stagestar with a 13" steel snare that was very ringy, and no way to dampen it-the internal muffler is definately nice for sound control!

[soulrythem]

To everyone out there on the topic of steel vs. maple snare drums,
I have both types of snare drums and I've actually experimented with both of them. They are both the same size (14X5) also, so I think this helped in my conclusions as well.
First off...You can't get a good sound out of any snare drum unless you know how to tune it properly. That's another subject alltogether. Second of all...a common problem that causes unplesant sounds or ringing would be the actuall snares themselves. Cheap snares such as the kind that you get at your local music shop (the kind that usually say "Made In China" on them) are usually bad in their design and can easilly cause your nice snare to sound not so nice. So go with a name brand...a set of Pearl or Yamaha snares for example. Another trick if you just cant get rid of that sustaining ring is be like McGyver and get out the tape. I have used a little piece of electrical tape on my snare head and even my ride cymbal to cut out some of that unwanted ring. And use common sence here...Obviously the more tape applied the more dead your snare will sound so use a small piece and ad another if you have to and so forth.
In my own experience/experimentation with my snare drums, I have tried a couple different things...I tried thinner and thicker heads. I also used the same heads on both snares to compare them and my conclusion is that the steel snare definitly has a more sustaining ring than the maple snare and a totally different tone all together. A little weaker in power probably due to the thin shell as aposed to a thicker 7-ply maple shell. Think Tubby Pingy Sustaining Metallic Sound compared to a Warmer Dryer Thicker Wood Sound. Personally, the maple snare has a more attractive tone for my style of music (Hip Hop/Rock/Reggae)and the steel snare sounds...well, bad ass. Good in usually any situation. I keep them both on hand given the musical situation I'm in and what I feel like using at the time.
One last thing to consider is what do your favorite players sound like and what are they using? If you like Chad Smith's or Carter Beauford's drum sound for example, then you might want to pick up a steel snare instead of a maple one to get that sound. Hope this was some help and keep jammin. God Bless the drumming community -Jonny V

[Deathmetalconga]

Here's a tip for all of you who don't want your drums to ring: don't play them!

Joking aside, here are a few real tips.

3) Strike the batter head dead-center. Most of the ringing problems arise from the fact that people hit the damn thing all over the place un-intentionally. Off-center rimshots are often the biggest culprits.

I believe the third point is the most critical in achieving a great snare sound. Striking off-center will create an artificial node (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Node_%28physics%29) which accentuates the head's overtones and diminishes its fundamental note. Striking the head right in the center will not create any nodes and the head's (and drum's) fundamental note is more pronounced, creating a less complex, drier sound. The striking angle is also important. If you strike a head at an angle, you'll force it to vibrate it in an angle that is off the vertical axis. A perpendicular stroke aligns the head's movements perfectly with this axis, resulting in a less complex sound that has a pronounced fundamental note.

WHAT? That's an outrage! :-)

I almost always hit off-center. That's where the drum is most expressive (and ringiest, agreed). There are a lot of drummers, like Manu Katche, that favor hitting off-center. I hit on-center when I want a fatter, drier snare sound, but most of the time I hit off-center to some degree.

I have heard that putting cotton balls inside the drum kills excessive ring. I'm going to try that.

[Wavelength]

I almost always hit off-center. That's where the drum is most expressive (and ringiest, agreed). There are a lot of drummers, like Manu Katche, that favor hitting off-center. I hit on-center when I want a fatter, drier snare sound, but most of the time I hit off-center to some degree.

Everyone's entitled to hit the snare drum in any manner he sees appropriate, and I'm no stranger to off-center playing, either. However, many beginners, people who like über-muffled cardboard sounds and people who've never played anything besides an e-kit don't usually realise that stroke placement has a big influence on the drum's sound. The person who started this thread wanted no ring from his snare, so it was only natural to suggest hitting the snare in the center.

[Deathmetalconga]

Everyone's entitled to hit the snare drum in any manner he sees appropriate, and I'm no stranger to off-center playing, either. However, many beginners, people who like über-muffled cardboard sounds and people who've never played anything besides an e-kit don't usually realise that stroke placement has a big influence on the drum's sound. The person who started this thread wanted no ring from his snare, so it was only natural to suggest hitting the snare in the center.

Yes, I see what you mean. Hitting in the center definitely minimizes ring. I can get at least a dozen sounds by hitting different areas of the drum with different areas of the stick (not always good sounds, by the way), but a lot of players might not be looking for that.