Meinl, Paiste, Sabian, or Zildjian for best metal cymbals?? [Archive]

Nathomuss 666th

10-14-2005, 03:13 PM

Hey, i have been pondering to my self why does everone think Zildjian rule is it because they are the most well known, most probs.
So what are the BEST cymbals for metal drumming, Sabian Have soo many great metal drummers to their name however zildjian are the most talked about, then there are paiste and meinl not many HUGE drumers to their name however one or two absolutley AMAZING drummers such as Joey jordison for paiste and i kno he's not metal but Thomas Lang for meinl ( he is one of the most technically amazing drummers i have ever listened to).

So wat are the best cymbals for metal drumming?? Any opinions?

Nathomuss 666th

figure_02

10-14-2005, 03:56 PM

Kicks_Mc_Gee

10-15-2005, 03:57 AM

You really can't say which one is the "best," it really just depends on what sound that you are looking for. Now in my own opinion Zildjian does not have a very good metal sound, Meinl and Sabian are my favorite.
What kind of metal do you play?

Slayer_metal_head

10-19-2005, 01:44 AM

The two best paiste metal drummers ARE DAVE LOMBARDO AND PAUL BOHSTAPH

both played in slayer for long periods of time but i cant find the right china for metal i want one with tons of sizzle and not much over tones

Speedy

10-19-2005, 11:41 PM

I find that Chris Adler to me is an amazing metal drummer and he uses meinl cymbals and before those were zildjian.

JDM

06-11-2006, 05:44 AM

Jason Bittner is better than any of the drummers you all have mentioned and he plays meinl. That doenst mean those are the best for metal, it just means they are best for Jason Bittner.

rjsteinbach

06-11-2006, 06:06 AM

what about danny carey he plays paiste. I play zildjian cymbals but i wish I had a set of paiste signatures for metal.

syaoran05

06-11-2006, 02:02 PM

technically without any preference paiste is the better cymbal. theyre b8.

moe.ron

06-11-2006, 03:03 PM

before you go buying cymbals you definitely need to go back to paiste.com and look at those drummers again. what about NICKO!? he's unbelievable. maybe tommy aldridge? every player on the paiste line up is fantastic. most of them are on this site i suggest you look them up, obviously they're not all metal drummers but why confine yourself to listening to just metal? and joey is not an unbelievable drummer just wicked fast.

the.tree

06-11-2006, 08:17 PM

I like sabian aa metal-x. But quit looking at who plays cymbals they just get the best deal from the company. So the big timers are getting em for free, its just who gives them a better deal. Look into the metal-x cymbals the most musical heavy cymbals I've seen. They can take a beating but keep great sound.

And i think b20 is a far better metal than b8, so why would paiste be the better cymbal?

Joss

06-11-2006, 11:14 PM

I would say sabian because they have so much choice, and all the cymbals have a real difference, unlike some companies, where they put 1% more bronze in a cymbal and bring out a whole new line of them.
However zildjian do make really good cymbals, and have almost as much variety as sabian.
it's basically the pearl/tama debate but with cymbals.

moe.ron

06-12-2006, 01:30 AM

personally i don't think it matters what cymbals are made out of as long as they sound good.,i just think paistes are better.

the skin man

06-12-2006, 02:01 AM

Joey Jordison is not an AMAZING drummer.

No, but he is an amazing weirdo. Just look at those pictures on his page for this site. And here's a few things it says:

His mask is a white japanese expressionless kabuki mask, now painted with black scars and fake Blood.

He created the term "Maggot" for a slipknot fan...

Bands played/plays in: "Anal Blast","Modifidious", "The Rejects"

Joey likes to wear a black hood that says on it "Little People Kill People".

I just don't where we'd be if it weren't for guys like that.

syaoran05

06-12-2006, 02:45 PM

And i think b20 is a far better metal than b8, so why would paiste be the better cymbal?

well b8 alloy is inherently brighter than b20. well blame me for not knowing anything about metal but i think cymbal preference for metal is bright and cutting. therefore b8 alloy. and who makes the best b8 cymbals? paiste. i think [and heard] that between well hammered b8's and b20's, the b20 cymbals are darker. again blame me for not knowing anything about metal but i think cymbal preference for metal is bright and cutting. b8. paiste.

CASP3Rdrummer

06-12-2006, 04:28 PM

paiste isnt using b8 bronze . they use CuSn8 Bronze, also known as "2002 Bronze" . thats why they cymbals are very different than any other symbal maker .

Mediocrefunkybeat

06-12-2006, 04:29 PM

CuSn8 Bronze IS B8 bronze mate. It's just the way Paiste manufacture and use bronzes which aren't B20 (B15, B12, B11) that make their cymbals different. The same bronze is used from the PST5 range through the Alphas and up through the 2oo2 range. The Dark Energy range etc use a different alloy, but none of them are the classic B20 anymore, not since the 6o2 range was discontinued. The 6o2 range (especially the older ones before the 80's reissue) are just gorgeous.

syaoran05

06-13-2006, 02:25 PM

paiste isnt using b8 bronze . they use CuSn8 Bronze, also known as "2002 Bronze" . thats why they cymbals are very different than any other symbal maker .

yeah MFB 's right. if you know your cymbals, B8 means 92% copper 8% tin.

and if you know your chemistry, Cu is copper, and Sn is tin... the chemical notation for bronze is CuSn.

the B in B8 or B20 or B<whatever> stands for bronze, so B8 means bronze with 8% tin.

likewise and therfore, CuSn8 means bronze where Sn [tin] is 8% of the CuSn alloy.

just a little science to help everyone out :)

CASP3Rdrummer

06-13-2006, 02:31 PM

yeah MFB 's right. if you know your cymbals, B8 means 92% copper 8% tin.

and if you know your chemistry, Cu is copper, and Sn is tin... the chemical notation for bronze is CuSn.

the B in B8 or B20 or B<whatever> stands for bronze, so B8 means bronze with 8% tin.

likewise and therfore, CuSn8 means bronze where Sn [tin] is 8% of the CuSn alloy.

just a little science to help everyone out :)

lol .i thought of it but again why would they use special name for they metal if it is B8 ? funny

syaoran05

06-13-2006, 02:38 PM

lol .i thought of it but again why would they use special name for they metal if it is B8 ? funny

its called marketing. :P if you want to sell pro line cymbals made with b8, you wouldnt use "B8" you'd use CuSn8 coz b8 has a reputation of being used only for low end bronze cymbals. they even called it 2002. marketing goes a long way my friend, and all of us always falls for at least one. :P

does know how to use b8 right. unlike sabian and zildjian]

Mediocrefunkybeat

06-13-2006, 02:38 PM

One nice little word. Marketing.

CASP3Rdrummer

06-13-2006, 02:45 PM

its called marketing. :P if you want to sell pro line cymbals made with b8, you wouldnt use "B8" you'd use CuSn8 coz b8 has a reputation of being used only for low end bronze cymbals. they even called it 2002. marketing goes a long way my friend, and all of us always falls for at least one. :P

does know how to use b8 right. unlike sabian and zildjian]

you are completly right about that !

syaoran05

06-13-2006, 02:49 PM

One nice little word. Marketing.

yes. the most annoying invention of the devil. z customs are evil [okay they have their place but theyre usable only for one single thing] and what makes them sell to youngsters? marketing.. [im lucky enough not to be swayed by marketing even if im 16. i think im the only one who will admit that my hardbound outdated encyclopedias are better than your practice pads]

Mediocrefunkybeat

06-13-2006, 02:56 PM

Hardbound encyclopedias are very useful indeed if you can't get your mitts on a practice pad.

I'm 18, but I'm cynical enough to (usually) not fall for the usual marketing gimmicks. I was discussing this with the manager of a local music chain I was doing some work for last week. One of their branches stocks a lot of drum kits and drum-related items such as cymbals. Every time they re-stock they are sure to order a lot of Planet Z cymbals, purely because they will sell a lot to drummers who don't know better. That sounds unethical, but really he's got a business to run and a family to support. Just having the Ziljdian name associated with the product itself is enough to sell them, even though they are completely awful discs of brass (I would be stretched to call them cymbals to be honest).

In the end, the only way to know what to choose is to go and do some serious research before you buy. We're lucky we have resources such as Drummerworld where we can talk with some seriously knowledgable guys who really know the business.

The trick? Get to know what you're talking about, or talk to somebody who does. Then and only then can you make well informed decisions about gear.

LiveGoat

08-01-2006, 07:52 PM

No, but he is an amazing weirdo. Just look at those pictures on his page for this site. And here's a few things it says:

His mask is a white japanese expressionless kabuki mask, now painted with black scars and fake Blood.

He created the term "Maggot" for a slipknot fan...

Bands played/plays in: "Anal Blast","Modifidious", "The Rejects"

Joey likes to wear a black hood that says on it "Little People Kill People".

I just don't where we'd be if it weren't for guys like that.

And where would Slipknot be without Mr. Bungle?

---LG

Butter

08-01-2006, 08:09 PM

technically without any preference paiste is the better cymbal. theyre b8.

Paiste are also B15.

PussyCat

08-01-2006, 11:05 PM

yeah the sigs are B15's like butter says.

Paiste mainly use b8 from Pst5 up to the 2002's and Rudes, but as 'the cook' is different, they sound incredible.

Bttl

08-01-2006, 11:09 PM

Paiste Rudes, Paiste 2002, Meinl Raker, Meinl Mb20, Zildjian A-Custom, Zildjian A, Sabian AAX, Sabian AA. Thats what i would recomend for Metal.

PussyCat

08-01-2006, 11:09 PM

Paiste Rudes rock, that is all I use now. ;-)

Pedro

08-01-2006, 11:13 PM

I would prefer Paiste and Meinl - for metal..

The most cutting, yet musical cymbals I've heard are in these two brands.

d.c.drummer

08-02-2006, 02:01 AM

1. There is no such thing as the ''best'' cymbal, and none for metal either.
2. Because Mike Portnoy uses Sabian, it doesnt mean they are the best, its all about what you think by yourself. If u choose AAX Stage Hats, just cause Mike use them i would say you are an complete idiot.
3. Joey Jordison is not an AMAZING drummer.

Though, the Meinl Raker is cheap, and designed for heavy drumming. Paiste Rude to.

Chill out. He's entiltled to his opinion and iif your not gonna answer his question then dont type a post. For crying out loud....

Any way, Paist Rude and Zildjian Z Custom are good metal cymbals.

Jason Strange

08-04-2006, 12:28 AM

3. Joey Jordison is not an AMAZING drummer.

haha.... yes he is a AMAZING drummer. I love the way he uses the snare drum. Thats just what I think though.

Smalley

08-23-2007, 08:51 AM

Personally I think zildjians are fine for metal. That's what I play and I use Z customs. (18, 19, and 20 inch crashes.) it's all in preference though.

Just avoid those cheap ass sheet cymbals.

aruration

08-23-2007, 06:58 PM

Personally I think zildjians are fine for metal. That's what I play and I use Z customs. (18, 19, and 20 inch crashes.) it's all in preference though.

Just avoid those cheap ass sheet cymbals.
I totally agree with you .... You could still play with K Customs or HH, just find YOUR sound...You want brightness? Brightness it is, you want darkness? Darkness it is then.

evans_69

08-23-2007, 07:02 PM

i use paiste signatures for rock and metal they are very bright and cutting .. i would also recommend zildjian a mediums.....a freind of mine uses theese and they cut really well.. go try some cymbals out and let us know how you get on :D

Batera945

08-24-2007, 03:54 PM

MEINL MB20! enough said!

these cymbals are awsome.. lamb of god's drummer uses them so does underoath and other heavy bands... they might be the sound your looking for.

Thrash Drummer

08-24-2007, 08:53 PM

Batera945

08-24-2007, 10:50 PM

I'm STILL looking for the perfect crash cymbal so I can make all my crashes in that same series. Right now I have a Paiste sig and a Zildjian K fast crash. The Paiste seems like it doesnt decay fast enough and the k doesnt sound full enough.

I have tried a sabian aaxplosion and didnt like it at first because there was some little overtone in it, but I'd really like to hear it again.

It really bugs me though, I only see metal bands playing meinl and sabian. If i could get my hands on a meinl cymbal I would love to try them...

But does anyone else think the Paiste sigs can make it in metal? In studio do they make it sound like a cymbal has more sttack and a quiker decay?

You can get meinls for the same price you would pay for the sign... try forksdrumcloset.. and also check out the sounds and compare them on meinlcymbals.com

But dont get me wrong... Paiste Sigs are awesome cymbals.... but they can crack easily. My friend had them and he had them set up on his kit at his church and some other drummer came along played on them and cracked it!.... he wasnt very happy with the guy afterwards...

but remember... its mostly what you think. If you like the paiste go with it man.

Velimor

08-24-2007, 11:56 PM

Saluda Mist-X, anyone?

Of the ones listed, I'd go with Meinl. Doesn't mean its the best or anything, just my preference.

pylamy

09-06-2007, 02:33 PM

Hi,

B8 (CuSn8, 2002...) is used to make sheet bronze cymbals. Raw sheets of B8 bronze are cut, pressed, lathed and hammered in order to make a cymbal. B8 is more elastic, hence B8 cymbals are said to be more durable and stand up heavier hitting. It make sense to me because if B8 alloy sheets can stand stress from pressure forming, it is more eager to stand stress from hard hitting. They're used for entry-level models as well as for more expensive ones (think Paiste's 2002, dimensions and innovations or even Sabian signature models like Chad Smith explosion Crashes.)

B20 (Paiste Signature, 602, A's A Custom + many others) is used to make cast bronze cymbals. B20 sheets are impossible to be made. Molten B20 Bronze (bell-brass) is cast into a mold that has rougly the shape of the finished cymbal. Then the rough object is lathed and hammered into a cymbal. B20 might indeed be stiffer (it is in fact some kind of die-cast object).

Final price depends basically on marketing and labor. I guess raw material price is about the same. That's why a Z Custom (B20) is about as expensive as a 2002 (B8). It's up to you to pick the right sound.

Mr. Pasquini

09-06-2007, 02:40 PM

I'd have to say Meinl's. They're becoming very popular in the metal community through great drummers like Brann Dailor (Mastodon), Jason Bittner (Shadows Fall), Chris Adler (Lamb of God), Christoph Schneider (Rammstein), John Boecklin (Devil Driver), Trivett Wingo (The Sword) and MANY more. I'd say go try to check them out. Their Mb20 series is hand hammered, so those should probably be heard before they are purchased.

Horizonchaser

09-11-2007, 09:34 PM

I have very little experience with meinl cymbals so I cant give opinions on them, but out of the cymbals I have tried I would say that I loved Z Custom crashes (especially the 17") and I really didn't like the Paiste RUDE hihats and wasn't too fond of the AA metal-X crashes.

Heres one that might surprise you - Zildjian 20" zxt rock ride. I used a friend's and I was surprised to find that it fits the rock and metal genres really well.

Skitch

09-12-2007, 04:33 AM

I played for Metal Shop this weekend and I ended up using a Rock Ride and some Quick Beat Hi hats. When I was listening to the original recordings, I was struck by the sparseness of the drum parts and the fact that most all of the toms were using Pinstripes. The kick drums were the felt strip across the head sound and the snare were fairly well muffled.

Mike

http://www.mikemccraw.com
http://www.dominoretroplate.com

http://www.youtube.com/drummermikemccraw
http://www.myspace.com/drummermikemccraw