Neil Peart

[Zumba_Zumba]

Yes paradiddler, that was my first Rush concert. That video has been in bootleg circulation for almost 10 years. Like I posted earlier, Primus opened for them and the entire night was incredible.

Neil was very aggressive that night. They opened with Dreamline and the entire show just cranked forward. I was able to see his footwork and saw the foot trigger tambourine use during Nobody's Hero. When he unveiled the 3/4 waltz tribal pattern, it blew my mind. The palace was going nuts. I don't think a mass audience has ever seen that type of stuff before.

I have to say, the best solo I ever saw from him was during TFE at an ampitheatre down the road called Pine Knob (Now called Energy Povider for Neighborhood Homes Music Theatre). During the Momo dance party and then scars part, the entire crowd clapped along (all standing). When he was done, the crowd cheered for, I kid you not, 5 or so minutes. It was quite simply the greatest solo and show of homage to a long standing drum legend. Geddy and Alex came out clapping too and Geddy asked the crowd "how about that drummer guy?"

Wish that was on video.

[paradiddler]

Yes paradiddler, that was my first Rush concert. That video has been in bootleg circulation for almost 10 years. Like I posted earlier, Primus opened for them and the entire night was incredible.

Neil was very aggressive that night. They opened with Dreamline and the entire show just cranked forward. I was able to see his footwork and saw the foot trigger tambourine use during Nobody's Hero. When he unveiled the 3/4 waltz tribal pattern, it blew my mind. The palace was going nuts. I don't think a mass audience has ever seen that type of stuff before.

I have to say, the best solo I ever saw from him was during TFE at an ampitheatre down the road called Pine Knob (Now called Energy Povider for Neighborhood Homes Music Theatre). During the Momo dance party and then scars part, the entire crowd clapped along (all standing). When he was done, the crowd cheered for, I kid you not, 5 or so minutes. It was quite simply the greatest solo and show of homage to a long standing drum legend. Geddy and Alex came out clapping too and Geddy asked the crowd "how about that drummer guy?"

Wish that was on video.

Hi Zumba.

Great stuff from you! See, that's what irks me about the Different Stages solo. It just seems like he was off that night, and from what you're telling me, during the same tour he had one of his best performances! Maybe that one should have been included on Different Stages instead. You read my review of that performance yet?

Anyways, thanks for reading!

[CavGator]

The tambourine can be attached to a floor bracket that is played by a BD pedal. LP makes one Gajate Bracket I think. I have one and use it for that very reason (I play the tribal waltz part in my solo too). 35 bucks or so.

The RRHOF is getting slammed pretty hard here. I will say that Rush should be in there. But I have been there a couple of times. The section with Jimi Hendrix's childhood artwork and lyrics is mind blowing. The mini theatre also played never-before-seen footage of Jimi in concert. It was so incredibly powerful. I could only imagine what that was like in the first five rows in concert.

The section that had memorabilia from blues greats choked me up a bit. This is where it all started. These poor men had only their clothes on their backs, a guitar, an amp and a single suit case. They travelled town to town looking to play. The RRHOF may be far from perfect, but then again, when being judged by people that belong to a discussion forum, what is?

Zumba, the problem many of us prog rock lovers have against the R&R HoF is that they have a HUGE problem with us and our preferred genre. Rush is nothing more than the latest example of intentional exclusion. Dream Theater will be the next pariah.

According to Bill Bruford in his autobiography (who is better suited to comment on this than him?), the Powers That Be (Christgau, Marsh, Wenner and those influenced by Lester Bangs) convict progressive rock on three counts:

1. Generally, their lyrics are not political. Indeed, many do not HAVE lyrics (hence their hatred of jazz fusion);

2. They overemphasize what they consider high culture (classical music), rather than jazz, R&B and blues. In their eyes, proggers are attempting to "educate" the unwashed masses with higher quality music, which would make them elitists, and;

3. They were extremely successful commercially, in spite of the scathing reviews.

If a musician is considered a technical virtuoso, well trained and versed in the theory of music (can sight read, etc), they will be looked askance by those who measure a musician's credibility by:

a. Growing up on the wrong side of the tracks, thereby establishing street credibility;

b. Being angry and rebellious, thereby reflecting the desired political positions;

c. Working their way up the music ladder not through the church or university (formal training), but instead, through the garage (preferably after quitting high school), to the club scene, to the grind of the road, to major stardom. And then again, even reaching major stardom can be a burden. The Arbitors of Greatness tend to prefer the Iggy Pop/Ramones/Patti Smith model of commercial poverty, in favor of "artistic purity," as they would define it.

These frustrated musicians who became hack writers for the likes of Rolling Stone and Creem couldn't cut it with the axe, keyboard, kit, horn or mike, so they appoint themselves as the Gatekeepers of the Sanctuary, and will jealously guard their preferences. This is why artists are being inducted 2-3 times, and bands that couldn't open for the prog giants of yesterday and today are being inducted. They attempt to dismiss progressive rock as a pop fad, akin to the likes of the Spice Girls and Britney Spears.

This will change sooner or later. Yes, ELP, Genesis, King Crimson, Jethro Tull and Rush will eventually get in, I think, but if they don't let your heart not suffer. It will be a badge of honor NOT to get in if they retain their ridiculous criteria.

Remember, they waited until he died to finally induct Frank Zappa, probably the most influential musician, bandleader and arranger of the last 50 years. There are your standards.

[michael drums]

The tambourine can be attached to a floor bracket that is played by a BD pedal. LP makes one Gajate Bracket I think. I have one and use it for that very reason (I play the tribal waltz part in my solo too). 35 bucks or so.

The RRHOF is getting slammed pretty hard here. I will say that Rush should be in there. But I have been there a couple of times. The section with Jimi Hendrix's childhood artwork and lyrics is mind blowing. The mini theatre also played never-before-seen footage of Jimi in concert. It was so incredibly powerful. I could only imagine what that was like in the first five rows in concert.

The section that had memorabilia from blues greats choked me up a bit. This is where it all started. These poor men had only their clothes on their backs, a guitar, an amp and a single suit case. They travelled town to town looking to play. The RRHOF may be far from perfect, but then again, when being judged by people that belong to a discussion forum, what is?

Well, ZZ...

I call it like I see it. Whether it's on a discussion forum, in a newspaper, or in a magazine, I exercise my freedom of speech and WILL judge the criteria for election of the R&RHoF. If it's wrong...well, I'll say so.

I'm not saying that they don't have credible examples of who they HAVE elected, 'cause we all know that they are filled with many many worthy rock bands and acts that certainly deserve their place.

But to leave out a band like Rush, after what they've accomplished, well...I cry foul. And Rush isn't the only one either, as has been mentioned above. There are others that deserve it just as much.

Oops!

See...I get a little off topic , too. :-|

Sorry 'bout that. Hope we can get back to the specific topic...The Professor! ;-)

[mattsmith]

This Hall of Fame discussion is interesting, but in all due respect seems beyond any prescribed formula or conspiracy based agenda.

One poster has stated that having hits was a requirement, whereas I can't recall the Sex Pistols or Miles Davis ever getting close, past SP's #93 US Billboard showing with Pretty Vacant, and Miles's Kind of Blue taking 40 years to go platinum.

Bruford cites their hatred for jazz fusion, but Miles, who spent the lion's share of his career as a mainstream jazz musician, got in not for things like Birth of the Cool or ESP, but for ground breaking jazz fusion like Bitches Brew, Jack Johnson and On the Corner.

Bruford also cites the necessity for anger and rebellion, yet the deserving Jethro Tull is not in, and covered the rebellion angle pretty well. Remenber the lyrics Jesus saves but he better save himself? That was probably very serious stuff in 1971.

Besides, even if there has been bias /that will most likely soon be rectified/, isn't it going to make more sense for ELP to get in first, since they were sort of the beginnings of that genre, the innovators if you will?

Interesting sidebar: Zappa made the Down Beat Jazz Hall of Fame a full decade before the Rock HOF got around to it.

In my opinion, I don't see bias against Rush as much as I see a random and haphazard voting criterion, that blows around in the wind, with no special purpose one way or the other. I also understand that's no way to run a railroad.

[CavGator]

Bruford cites their hatred for jazz fusion, but Miles, who spent the lion's share of his career as a mainstream jazz musician, got in not for things like Birth of the Cool or ESP, but for ground breaking jazz fusion like Bitches Brew, Jack Johnson and On the Corner.

I think Miles got in because of his pioneering efforts in the 1950s, as well as his influence. It was elected in SPITE of Bitches Brew and his foray into jazz fusion.

Bruford also cites the necessity for anger and rebellion, yet the deserving Jethro Tull is not in, and covered the rebellion angle pretty well. Remenber the lyrics Jesus saves but he better save himself? That was probably very serious stuff in 1971.

Actually, it was rather tame, compared to the hypercharged political lyrics of the day. Iconoclastic lyrics were rather passe. Indeed, if you read Jimmy Guterman's scathing 50 Worst Albums in Rock, he cites Aqualung as among the worst BECAUSE of what he perceived as infantile rants on religion, and Guterman is very, very much in the Bangs/Marsh/Christgau mold.

Besides, even if there has been bias /that will most likely soon be rectified/, isn't it going to make more sense for ELP to get in first, since they were sort of the beginnings of that genre, the innovators if you will?

When pigs fly.

Interesting sidebar: Zappa made the Down Beat Jazz Hall of Fame a full decade before the Rock HOF got around to it.

There is a reason for that.

In my opinion, I don't see bias against Rush as much as I see a random and haphazard voting criterion, that blows around in the wind, with no special purpose one way or the other. I also understand that's no way to run a railroad.

As far as progressive rock is concerned, the giants of the genre have LONG passed the 25-year barrier for their debut album, and only Pink Floyd (not really considered progressive rock, with their blues-based, plodding rhythm) is in. None of the others get as much as a sniff. In their day, however, they were as big as the Stones, Zeppelin, the Who and Elton John, by largely the SAME audience, as evidence by their platinum sales and stadium sellouts. The audience was not a mindless teeny bopper crowd. This drove the Powers That Be crazy!

IMO, Rush is painted with the same brush: In their eyes, Rush is hyper-talented, self-indulgent, malice free, and worst of all, very successful. I think their chance of induction is somewhat enhanced by the relative newness of the band (compared to the earlier giants of the genre).

Who knows, if Peart simply was content to keep the beat, rather than be melodic and creative, they might have gotten in by now. But then again, they wouldn't be Rush, either, would they?

I have no doubt that Geddy, Alex and Neil are crying about being snubbed -- all the way to the bank. They are no passing fad. They earned their money doing what they believed was right.

[mattsmith]

I think Miles got in because of his pioneering efforts in the 1950s, as well as his influence. It was elected in SPITE of Bitches Brew and his foray into jazz fusion..

It's a rock and roll hall of fame. Kind of Blue and Milestones doesn't make that happen. And if anyone still believed such a contention, all they had to do was view the Miles award ceremony where nothing but 70s styled fusion was played with a dash of Marcus Miller thrown in, while Herbie Hancock was there not to reintroduce the 2nd classic quintet, but to show his Miles related fusion influences. No, Miles Davis got into the rock and roll hall of fame because some of those 70s bands were among the most creative and influential rock configurations of their time. I am also aware that most don't get how Louie Armstrong qualified either, when his widespread popularization of Western African syncopation is the primary reason why rock vocalists /and everyone else from the past 100 years/ sings the way they do. His umbrella was too large to ignore.

Actually, it was rather tame, compared to the hypercharged political lyrics of the day. Iconoclastic lyrics were rather passe. Indeed, if you read Jimmy Guterman's scathing 50 Worst Albums in Rock, he cites Aqualung as among the worst BECAUSE of what he perceived as infantile rants on religion, and Guterman is very, very much in the Bangs/Marsh/Christgau mold...

You're obviously not from the American South, where even so called infantile religious lyrics are as confrontational as they come. Southerners have seen widespread political upheavel time and time again, but messing with the religious end can get you in a whale of hurt. Uneven urban critics like Guterman most certainly don't understand things like that. Besides, as many people over the years, have been laughing at Jimmy Guterman's overreaching assesments as have admired them. He's not exactly a poster child for the last word, that's for sure. Moreover, I would doubt that his vote influences no one else, that is if he still even has one.

When pigs fly...
If anything has been proven by this dialouge it is to prove that no one truly understands what those people are thinking. And yes, that works towards the detriment of Peart and company.

There is a reason for that..
Re: Zappa...Yeah I know. I am aware of few jazz musicians who don't at least have the complete Lather sessions.

As far as progressive rock is concerned, the giants of the genre have LONG passed the 25-year barrier for their debut album, and only Pink Floyd (not really considered progressive rock, with their blues-based, plodding rhythm) is in. None of the others get as much as a sniff. In their day, however, they were as big as the Stones, Zeppelin, the Who and Elton John, by largely the SAME audience, as evidence by their platinum sales and stadium sellouts. The audience was not a mindless teeny bopper crowd. This drove the Powers That Be crazy!

IMO, Rush is painted with the same brush: In their eyes, Rush is hyper-talented, self-indulgent, malice free, and worst of all, very successful. I think their chance of induction is somewhat enhanced by the relative newness of the band (compared to the earlier giants of the genre).

Who knows, if Peart simply was content to keep the beat, rather than be melodic and creative, they might have gotten in by now. But then again, they wouldn't be Rush, either, would they?

I have no doubt that Geddy, Alex and Neil are crying about being snubbed -- all the way to the bank. They are no passing fad. They earned their money doing what they believed was right.

Your assesments about the popularity of early prog rock seem to be dead on true, but I still don't observe the agendas some of the rest of you do. I would suspect in the next 2-3 years, there will be a kind of prog. rock induction scenario that will include ELP, Tull and Yes at the same ceremony. Another couple of years will follow, then you will see Rush.

And if pigs do fly, then hey, it's rock and roll.

[KlarkKent]

This Hall of Fame discussion is interesting, but in all due respect seems beyond any prescribed formula or conspiracy based agenda.

One poster has stated that having hits was a requirement, whereas I can't recall the Sex Pistols or Miles Davis ever getting close, past SP's #93 US Billboard showing with Pretty Vacant, and Miles's Kind of Blue taking 40 years to go platinum.


Actually, the Sex Pistols did have a major hit in "God Save the Queen" in May 1977, a single which sparked a lot of upheaval and social irritation. They released this song during Queen Elizabeth's Jubilee celebrations--something which the patriotic public took enormous offensive at--almost like giving the Royal Family a big, fat, blatant "V" sign. The song made it to number one on the New Musical Express charts in the UK, but the song was slighted at #2 on the official BBC UK Singles Chart. In fact, I think some printings of the BBC chart listings back then left the slot blank as a way to censor the band.

If you want to talk about blistering lyrics, then I agree with CavGator about his "tame" comment. Mattsmith makes a good point about the American South and religion, however; I lived there for a time and some people in the North Carolina, South Carolina, Georgia corridor possess a religious attitude that dates back to the 1950s. Extremely conservative and, depending on your point of view, amazingly close minded.

Punks in England, though, really ruffled feathers--and followed not too far off of 1971. A lot of the English were angered by John Lydon's (aka Johnny Rotten) satire on the Royal Family ("God save the Queen/She ain't no human being/And there's no future in England's dreaming"), and he was even jumped and knifed by some National Front lads who took a racist pro-British/pro-white view of English life and were thus angered by Rotten's attack on the icon of Englishness.

I think a lot of lyrics coming out of the punk and post-punk scene in England were a lot more severe than Jethro Tull--they sort of took the political critique in some prog rock, like Tull, and raised the volume level well past 11. Think of Marxist/Christian-inspired The Housemartins, a very popular pop band from the North of England, who, in 1986, wrote in the song "Get Up Off Our Knees":

Famines will be famines, banquets will be banquets
Some spend winter in a palace, some spend it in blankets
Don’t wag your fingers at them and turn to walk away
Don’t shoot someone tomorrow that you can shoot today

Combine such lyrics with the ironic "Christmas Message" from the band printed in the sleeve of their London 0, Hull 4 album: "For too long the ruling class have enjoyed an extended New Years Eve Party, whilst we can only watch, faces pressed up against the glass. The Housemartins say: 'Don't try gate crashing a party full of bankers. Burn the house down!' Take Jesus - Take Marx - Take Hope."

Extremely controversial, particularly at the height of the Reagan/Thatcher era. This, of course, does not lessen or diminish the impact of Tull's lyric in 1971 (and if we want to talk 1971, then Kubrick's shocking A Clockwork Orange, which was in theatres in England then, would also be a good gauge of serious/alarming stuff), but the Pistols inspired a whole new era of charged criticism that can indeed make Jethro Tull and others look kittenishly tame.

(Another good example: Morrissey released the song "Margaret on the Guillotine" in 1987, a Smiths song that never made it to Strangeways Here We Come and so appeared on Moz's Viva Hate solo debut: a quiet melody that paints a shocking attack on Thatcher, which provoked a police raid of Morrissey's flat. Talk about art causing some serious problems and rattling the public/authorities.)

These are just some interesting examples, though sorry for the non sequitur--not exactly the topic of the thread. But Mattsmith's and CavGator's exchange on this particular issue was interesting.

Poor ol' Rush: never getting full respect. An old friend of mine used to be a roadie for Rush (in the mid-to-late 1970s) and knew the band very well. I remember him telling me stories about Neil Peart being a major bookworm, always off reading, and Peart and Alex also jamming on Zeppelin tunes for fun during rehearsals until Geddy would scold them. According to my friend, Geddy was a bit of an egomaniac--bit controlling, full of himself. Neil and Alex were the "nice ones."

[KlarkKent]

It's a rock and roll hall of fame. Kind of Blue and Milestones doesn't make that happen.

I don't know--have you heard Miles's quintet perform "So What" in Berlin in September 1964?? Tony Williams on drums at age 17, and this version of "So What" sounds like speed metal compared to the original release on Kind of Blue. Ha!

[Pavlos]

If anything has been proven by this dialouge it is to prove that no one truly understands what those people are thinking. And yes, that works towards the detriment of Peart and company.


I'm not going to pretend I totally know what they're thinking, but my guess is that the committee that dictates what the RRHoF does is purely motivated by doing what they think will bring money and attention to the hall, not by serving some higher purpose to honor the legacy of rock.

By staying within the commonly accepted boundaries defined by the genre of Rock & Roll they limit themselves to one segment of the buying public. But by branching out and including acts from Dance, Rap, Hip Hop, Jazz and Blues genres they will be able to suck more $$$$ from different portions of the general public that might otherwise not be interested in trekking to Cleveland to see the museum.

Of course this is now getting off topic and becoming a thread about why the R&RHoF sucks. I've been there and I found it only mildly interesting. I think pretty much everyone can agree Rush should be in their by this point in time.

Mojo Nixon's song "Rock & Roll Hall of Lame" nailed what they're all about pretty well, imo.

[mattsmith]

Actually, the Sex Pistols did have a major hit in "God Save the Queen" in May 1977, a single which sparked a lot of upheaval and social irritation. They released this song during Queen Elizabeth's Jubilee celebrations--something which the patriotic public took enormous offensive at--almost like giving the Royal Family a big, fat, blatant "V" sign. The song made it to number one on the New Musical Express charts in the UK, but the song was slighted at #2 on the official BBC UK Singles Chart. In fact, I think some printings of the BBC chart listings back then left the slot blank as a way to censor the band.
Yeah, I thought about God Save the Queen before I made my comment about hits. But as I tell my European friends all the time, hits over there mean very little in the bigger picture, because the world view of making it starts and stops with success in the US. And that has nothing to do with what's fair, that's just is what it is. In the bigger scheme of things a #2 hit in the UK only equates to having a hit in Texas. As for queen related controversies, that too is of no consequence in America where most of the HOF voters reside. Now if those guys had pulled that stunt with Princess Diana, then you would have had something. The American critics who have so much to do with HOF voting simply don't think Europe exists until it visits America. That's the way it's always been.[/QUOTE]

Mattsmith makes a good point about the American South and religion, however; I lived there for a time and some people in the North Carolina, South Carolina, Georgia corridor possess a religious attitude that dates back to the 1950s. Extremely conservative and, depending on your point of view, amazingly close minded..

I was born in North Carolina and spent years there. I live in Georgia now. Try 1550s. I had a friend in middle school who had a 1970s era picture in his den of his high school aged mom burning Alice Cooper records at a church rally. And in Alabama and Mississippi its even more conservative than that. In the south, for a large number of people, protection of literal biblical interpretation comes before all things, including life itself.

I think a lot of lyrics coming out of the punk and post-punk scene in England were a lot more severe than Jethro Tull--they sort of took the political critique in some prog rock, like Tull, and raised the volume level well past 11.

Tull was also far more popular in their time. My parents claim that Aqualung was everywhere, whereas punk never really gained a foothold in farm country. As for Clockwork Orange, that was banned in the rural areas too.

I'm not going to pretend I totally know what they're thinking, but my guess is that the committee that dictates what the RRHoF does is purely motivated by doing what they think will bring money and attention to the hall, not by serving some higher purpose to honor the legacy of rock.

I think there is much to be said for this opinion. But if that's true then how is Rush being hurt? Apparently, there is this extremely vocal, if not rabid core group that make a lot of noise for these guys, Peart especially. A hundred or so Rush devotees could walk around the HOF building in Cleveland holding signs, and it would be on the MTV News in 10 minutes, followed by Stephen Colbert's inevitable parody.

By staying within the commonly accepted boundaries defined by the genre of Rock & Roll they limit themselves to one segment of the buying public. But by branching out and including acts from Dance, Rap, Hip Hop, Jazz and Blues genres they will be able to suck more $$$$ from different portions of the general public that might otherwise not be interested in trekking to Cleveland to see the museum..

Broad parameters also protect an ethical consideration more important than money. Keeping the parameters for induction broad is what helps get Rush inducted, not the other way around. You never want someone officially defining commonly accepted boundaries. Too much of that is nothing but personal opinion anyway, and is open to real predjudice and class warfare. Just think of all the groups who believe that nothing came before Elvis, the real stuff ended with the death of John Lennon, or that all rap is about nothing but shooting cops and slapping your mama.

Of course this is now getting off topic and becoming a thread about why the R&RHoF sucks. I've been there and I found it only mildly interesting. I think pretty much everyone can agree Rush should be in their by this point in time.


Threads get off direct topic all the time, and in this case I think it's fine since HOF induction tying into the Peart legacy, has been at the core of Peart related discussions for the past three years or more. We all know that Peart has few listeners with a middle ground opinion. Most either see him as an icon on the same level as Rich, Williams, Elvin Jones and Krupa, or can't believe how overrated he is. I've always thought the truth was somewhere in the middle, which may explain why this interesting Rush HOF drama continues to play out like it does.

And yeah that's an opinion too.

[DrumEatDrum]

Critism of the R&R HOF is not just Rush related.

best summed up by:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rock_and_Roll_Hall_of_Fame

The main criticism is that the nomination process is controlled by a few individuals who are not even musicians, such as founder Jann Wenner, former foundation director Suzan Evans, and writer Dave Marsh, reflecting their tastes rather than the views of the rock world as a whole.

A more detailed artilce here:
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,1966,00.html

I am a veteran music journalist who spent two years on the Hall's nominating committee and saw from the inside some of the politics at work.

"I saw how artists were sometimes chosen for nomination because of their affiliations with the directors of the Hall and others were shot down without so much as a moment of consideration simply because some people in that room didn't like them personally or because an artist had bad blood with someone calling the shots.

"At one point Suzan Evans lamented the choices being made because there weren't enough big names that would sell tickets to the dinner. That was quickly remedied by dropping one of the doo-wop groups being considered in favor of a 'name' artist.

http://www.projo.com/music/content/lb_rock_hall_of_lame_12-17-07_K4893CI_v7.133fe6d.html
As for the nine nominees offered up earlier this year, which also included Donna Summer, Chic, Afrika Bambaataa and the Beastie Boys: “I couldn’t vote for any of ’em,” said Joel Selvin, longtime music writer at the San Francisco Chronicle and a former member of the Rock Hall of Fame nominating committee.

“It doesn’t matter who they elected,” Selvin said. “This thing has sunk to a shameful level of manipulation and behind-the-scenes chicanery. If it were a public institution — which it is — it would be held up for total ridicule.”


Not has Rush been left out, but so has Kiss (who've outsold most bands), Journey, The Moodly Blues, and a number of other high profile, successful and influencial rock bands, while someone like Madonna gets in, no problem.

It's one thing to over look a particular favorite, like Rush, but the list of questionable choices goes on, and HOF has done little to clear up the controversy that surrounds it, including repeated slammings from people who used to be involved in with the committee.

But to keep this on topic:
You gotta love the red kit:
http://www.matadorrecords.com/matablog/wp-content/uploads/2008/10/neil2.jpg

[Pavlos]

Critism of the R&R HOF is not just Rush related. .....

.....But to keep this on topic:
You gotta love the red kit:
http://www.matadorrecords.com/matablog/wp-content/uploads/2008/10/neil2.jpg

I agree on both counts. Someone want to start a "what's wrong with the R&RHoF?" thread?

And I always liked Neil's ludwig phase best. I thought they looked and sounded great.

[CavGator]

It's a rock and roll hall of fame. Kind of Blue and Milestones doesn't make that happen. And if anyone still believed such a contention, all they had to do was view the Miles award ceremony where nothing but 70s styled fusion was played with a dash of Marcus Miller thrown in, while Herbie Hancock was there not to reintroduce the 2nd classic quintet, but to show his Miles related fusion influences. No, Miles Davis got into the rock and roll hall of fame because some of those 70s bands were among the most creative and influential rock configurations of their time. I am also aware that most don't get how Louie Armstrong qualified either, when his widespread popularization of Western African syncopation is the primary reason why rock vocalists /and everyone else from the past 100 years/ sings the way they do. His umbrella was too large to ignore.

Well, if that was the case, then I am awaiting the induction of the Tony Williams Lifetime, Mahavishnu Orchestra, Return To Forever, Weather Report, etc. Miles was a pioneer.

You're obviously not from the American South, where even so called infantile religious lyrics are as confrontational as they come. Southerners have seen widespread political upheavel time and time again, but messing with the religious end can get you in a whale of hurt. Uneven urban critics like Guterman most certainly don't understand things like that. Besides, as many people over the years, have been laughing at Jimmy Guterman's overreaching assesments as have admired them. He's not exactly a poster child for the last word, that's for sure. Moreover, I would doubt that his vote influences no one else, that is if he still even has one.

Matt, I was:

1. Born in Mobile, Alabama, in 1956;
2. Grew up in Pensacola, the belt buckle of the bible belt;
3. Went to segregated elementary schools and still remember separate restrooms and drinking fountains;
4. Lived in Pensacola during MLK's assassination;
5. Endured the violent race riots that followed;
6. Absolutely surrounded by Pentacostals who were indifferent to Aqualung. They were still to busy calling the Beatles evil and playing their records backwards to get satanic messages.

You are from the South, but you are also too young to remember when Aqualung came out. Take my word for it. It did not spark an outrage in the South.

Guterman is only one voice, but his voice absolutely reflects that of the others in his disdain for progressive rock. This was simply another vehicle for him to attack Tull. If it wasn't religion, it would be something else (he slammed Thick As a Brick as well).

Also, please note that I said GENERALLY in the previous post. I did not say universally. As in everything else, there are exceptions to the rule.

[Anne Beeche]

I'm still digging the drum tone in Power Windows and Hold Your Fire. That kick drum is simply awesome. Ludwig, right?

[DrumEatDrum]

I'm still digging the drum tone in Power Windows and Hold Your Fire. That kick drum is simply awesome. Ludwig, right?

On Power Windows, Neil still had the famoud red Tama kit.

For Hold Your Fire, he switched to Ludwig.

[paradiddler]

Hello all.

We have arrived! Neil Peart's #1 drum solo has been posted at TheParadiddler.com. Here's a link to the article:

Neil Peart Solo #1 (http://theparadiddler.com/2009/04/21/neil-peart-solo-number-one-snakes-and-arrows-2008/)

I hope you enjoyed the ranking. Let us all know what you think!

[supermac]

Been a big fan of Neil's for years and years, even though I mostly listen to other players these days.

For me, his best solo appeared on the Rush In Rio DVD, in terms of content, excitement and flow.

The Snakes and Arrow solo, which I saw live here on the UK, for me didn't hit the mark like some of his previous work.

Incidentally, a guy I work with recently ran me off a huge pile of Rush bootlegs which I more or less flicked through, but Neil's solo from the mid 80s (Grace Under Pressure Tour), and another from the early 90s (Presto tour) are worth checking out if you get the chance.

[Zumba_Zumba]

Paradiddler, thank you for writing your reviews. They are fun to read. I do have to respectfully disagree with the #1 though. His momo's party and the electronic stuff after was pretty weak. Even the waltz. Considering what Thomas Lang has done with electronics, it seems Neil would either not go there or at least have something comparable. The electronic stuff made zero sense to me at least. If a nobody like me finds it lacking then that is the least of Neil's worries ;)

THere are some great bootlegs out there. I heard one from Roll the Bones. Neil started on the electronic kit which he stated in his Anatomy dvd that he never did that. That solo was killer. The drum sound was the best I ever heard from him. On Freewill for the band solo section, he dropped a stick during the ride pattern (WAY faster live) and he was just playing the dotted eighth bass/snare. After retrieving another stick, he just lays in with fury. That bootleg sort of immortalized Neil for me.

[michael drums]

Hello all.

We have arrived! Neil Peart's #1 drum solo has been posted at TheParadiddler.com. Here's a link to the article:

Neil Peart Solo #1 (http://theparadiddler.com/2009/04/21/neil-peart-solo-number-one-snakes-and-arrows-2008/)

I hope you enjoyed the ranking. Let us all know what you think!

Sorry, Omar. But...

I will ALWAYS and forever be partial to the Exit: Stage Left solo in YYZ. Loved the live recording of that with his Tamas. It's my all-time favorite of his recorded solos, and I'm not about to change my choice any time in the next 2 or 3 lifetimes. ;-)

But, I do want to convey my appreciation to you for your continued postings of your NP solo series, here on DW.

Thank You very much!

michael drums :-)

[pbm2112]

Guy's and girls - I have a gig coming up and am struggling with the first drum solo in YYZ. I just can't figure it out... it sort of sounds like triplets rolling down the toms, but with an accent just before he moves on to the next tom? It's a classic Peart lick, there's loads of it in The Weapon too. If anyone can help me I'd really appreciate it. I LOVE that fill and have a month to nail it!!! THANKS!!

http://i165.photobucket.com/albums/u48/pbm2112/PFFLYER-1.jpg

[paradiddler]

Guy's and girls - I have a gig coming up and am struggling with the first drum solo in YYZ. I just can't figure it out... it sort of sounds like triplets rolling down the toms, but with an accent just before he moves on to the next tom? It's a classic Peart lick, there's loads of it in The Weapon too. If anyone can help me I'd really appreciate it. I LOVE that fill and have a month to nail it!!! THANKS!!

http://i165.photobucket.com/albums/u48/pbm2112/PFFLYER-1.jpg

Pbm,

That gig sounds like it's gonna be a blast! Wish I could be there, but alas, I'm all the way in Atlanta, GA, quite the ways from you! Anyhow, I believe I have the explanation on the fill you're having trouble with.

You're thinking triplets, but it's actually the single stroke four rudiment! He starts on the snare, then, as you know, goes down each tom until he hits the crash (you know that part, I'm sure). On the snare, the dynamics for each stroke is about the same - same volume for each stroke. But on each tom going down, each of the four strokes crescendos, the next note louder than the previous one, with the fourth stroke being the loudest. What makes the roll sound so smooth as Neil transitions to the next tom is that as soon as he hits the fourth stroke the loudest, he's already striking the next tom softly to begin the next single stroke four crescendo. Of course, this is happening very fast, which is why it sounds so smooth.

So the short of it is that it's a single stroke four rudiment, first stroke softest, last stroke loudest, next tom first stroke softest, last stroke loudest, and so on. If done right (that is, the way Neil makes it sound!), when you're on the lowest tom it should sound very impactful and loud as you strike that last note of the single stroke four, then crashing at the end.

Hopefully I explained it ok. Give it a shot, play it out, and let us know if it sounds right to you. I'm really curious!

I invite anybody who thinks I'm wrong to correct me (or those who think I'm right to confirm me!), but I think (strongly) that this is what Neil plays on that section of YYZ.

Have fun!

[paradiddler]

Paradiddler, thank you for writing your reviews. They are fun to read. I do have to respectfully disagree with the #1 though. His momo's party and the electronic stuff after was pretty weak. Even the waltz. Considering what Thomas Lang has done with electronics, it seems Neil would either not go there or at least have something comparable. The electronic stuff made zero sense to me at least. If a nobody like me finds it lacking then that is the least of Neil's worries ;)

THere are some great bootlegs out there. I heard one from Roll the Bones. Neil started on the electronic kit which he stated in his Anatomy dvd that he never did that. That solo was killer. The drum sound was the best I ever heard from him. On Freewill for the band solo section, he dropped a stick during the ride pattern (WAY faster live) and he was just playing the dotted eighth bass/snare. After retrieving another stick, he just lays in with fury. That bootleg sort of immortalized Neil for me.

Hey Zumba,

I know the exact bootleg you're talking about. Yes, that solo is incredible, and I wish it got published. Yeah, I think Neil got angry that he dropped his stick, but we're all glad he did 'cause that lick he played right after was killer.

I'll have to disagree with you though on the #1 solo, although I see what you're saying. Heck, nobody's Thomas Lang in that regard, so Neil can only do what's within the context of the solo he's trying to create. To me, his solos are as creative as anybody's, even if he's not as speedy as others. I did find the electronics stuff most creative, different than anything he's done.

Anyways, it's all good! Glad you enjoyed the articles. Drum on!

[Loui]

That solo from Roll the Bones is Neil Peart in essence.

[andSometimesY]

Of course Neil isn't the most technically proficient drummer on the planet, but he is a worthy inspiration. The man has chops, speed, and creativity. He was the reason I started playing drums. I think that the wave of drummers influenced by someone like Peart will turn out a lot better than those influenced by Barker or Jordison, so I don't understand the Peart bashing.

[pbm2112]

Of course Neil isn't the most technically proficient drummer on the planet, but he is a worthy inspiration. The man has chops, speed, and creativity. He was the reason I started playing drums. I think that the wave of drummers influenced by someone like Peart will turn out a lot better than those influenced by Barker or Jordison, so I don't understand the Peart bashing.

I guess this get's to the heart of what is wrong with some players these days - it's all about faster, harder, and if you can't do JoJo Mayer push/pull to 350bpm you ain't worth sh*t!!! BUT WHAT ABOUT THE MUSIC?

Neil Peart's a great drummer, but his GENIUS is in the parts he creates for the songs; how he builds from one section to another throughout a song with detail and logic, not to mention how what he plays works with the other instruments. I've been learning many of his parts beat for beat (well as close as I can get) for a gig, and the more I listen, the more the shape and intent behind the parts astounds me. Maybe he's just doing a lot of it on intuition, but then in some ways that's even more impressive.

I always think the sign of a great musician - the thing we aspire to but so rarely achieve - is that someone can hear us play and know it is us. That's not about how fast you can play - BB King can do that with one note! It's very hard for drummers in rock music to assert that kind of character, and the fact that Neil Peart has a distinct approach (well, up to when they got too inspired by The Police post Moving Pictures) is another testament to his greatness.

http://i165.photobucket.com/albums/u48/pbm2112/PFFLYER-1.jpg

[andSometimesY]

Excellent post, pbm. There is almost always a difference between whomever my favorite drummer is at the time and the drummer that I think is the best at the instrument. My favorite may not be the very best, but the things he plays flow so perfectly with the music that if you aren't listening for drums, you will forget they are there. I call music that flows together like that "transcendental" music, because it transcends the senses (at least my senses).

P.S. pbm, does the singer for that Rush show you are doing sound anything like Geddy? That would be a tough find if so. Will anyone be recording the show? It sounds really interesting and I would come if I was close enough.

[paradiddler]

Excellent post, pbm. There is almost always a difference between whomever my favorite drummer is at the time and the drummer that I think is the best at the instrument. My favorite may not be the very best, but the things he plays flow so perfectly with the music that if you aren't listening for drums, you will forget they are there. I call music that flows together like that "transcendental" music, because it transcends the senses (at least my senses).

P.S. pbm, does the singer for that Rush show you are doing sound anything like Geddy? That would be a tough find if so. Will anyone be recording the show? It sounds really interesting and I would come if I was close enough.

Hi andSometimesY,

Great username, by the way! You may find interesting a couple of articles I wrote regarding the 'best drummer' title:

The Best Drummer In the World Is... (http://theparadiddler.com/2008/10/05/the-best-drummer-in-the-world-is/)
The Reference Drummer (http://theparadiddler.com/2008/08/27/the-reference-drummer/)

They're very much in line with what you're saying (hence I agree with you!). Hope you find them interesting.

[pbm2112]

Excellent post, pbm. There is almost always a difference between whomever my favorite drummer is at the time and the drummer that I think is the best at the instrument. My favorite may not be the very best, but the things he plays flow so perfectly with the music that if you aren't listening for drums, you will forget they are there. I call music that flows together like that "transcendental" music, because it transcends the senses (at least my senses).

P.S. pbm, does the singer for that Rush show you are doing sound anything like Geddy? That would be a tough find if so. Will anyone be recording the show? It sounds really interesting and I would come if I was close enough.

I totally agree - the best drummer for the music and for the instrument can be two very different people. The White Stripes with Thomas Lang would be awful. But I wouldn't go to see a Meg White drum clinic.

With regards the gig - the singer's pretty damn good, it's a big ask of anyone and nobody sounds like Geddy - it's amazing we've found him! But we aren't setting ourselves up as Rush 2, we are just some pretty musical fans of the band playing music we love for people that want to hear these songs loud and live. We will record it and get a myspace page together - I'll let you know.
http://i165.photobucket.com/albums/u48/pbm2112/PFFLYER-1.jpg

[paradiddler]

Hi guys (and gals!).

Recently on DrumChannel.com, Doane Perry, Neil Peart, and Terry Bozzio sat down for a chat and jam session, and it was most interesting! I wrote about the highlights and the points I thought were most worthy of note in my latest article on my web site:

Perry, Peart, and Bozzio: Pearls of Drumming Wisdom (http://theparadiddler.com/2009/07/07/perry-peart-and-bozzio-pearls-of-drumming-wisdom/)

Some cool insight, and some really cool pictures! Check it out; I hope you enjoy it!

[DrumEatDrum]

Hi guys (and gals!).

Recently on DrumChannel.com, Doane Perry, Neil Peart, and Terry Bozzio sat down for a chat and jam session, and it was most interesting! I wrote about the highlights and the points I thought were most worthy of note in my latest article on my web site:

Perry, Peart, and Bozzio: Pearls of Drumming Wisdom (http://theparadiddler.com/2009/07/07/perry-peart-and-bozzio-pearls-of-drumming-wisdom/)

Some cool insight, and some really cool pictures! Check it out; I hope you enjoy it!

Dang, never in a million years would I think I'd see video of Neil Peart playing Terry Bozzio's kit!

WOW.

[paradiddler]

Guy's and girls - I have a gig coming up and am struggling with the first drum solo in YYZ. I just can't figure it out... it sort of sounds like triplets rolling down the toms, but with an accent just before he moves on to the next tom? It's a classic Peart lick, there's loads of it in The Weapon too. If anyone can help me I'd really appreciate it. I LOVE that fill and have a month to nail it!!! THANKS!!

http://i165.photobucket.com/albums/u48/pbm2112/PFFLYER-1.jpg

pbm!

Just wondering how the gig went. Did it happen? How was your rendition of YYZ? I hope there are some videos!

[Strangelove]

Here is a really good chronology of Neil's equipment:

http://andrewolson.com/Neil_Peart/neil_drumkits.htm

[MainDragDrums]

I don't want to come across like a salesman on a forum, but I know that most Neil Peart fans would be interested to see this kit, even if not to bid on it. My store is putting up Neil's original Rush kit for sale on ebay starting on this coming Sunday. This is the kit that was on the cover of All the World's a Stage, used to record 2112 etc.. The photos we're using are pretty awesome, and this kit is such a cool thing to see for Neil fans. If you want to bid on it, fine, but if you're a serious about Mr. Peart it's just plain cool to check out. The drums have been in our store for months and people have ben coming in and just bugging out.

[MikeM]

Got any pics you can post?

[MainDragDrums]

http://i642.photobucket.com/albums/uu141/J84466/TJH_2203.jpg

[\m/]

Here is a really good chronology of Neil's equipment:

http://andrewolson.com/Neil_Peart/neil_drumkits.htm

Yeah, I found that link, too, through Google.

I like his earlier kits a lot better than his newer ones. Having all of the unusual percussion instruments as physically part of his kit, in my opinion, looks way cooler than having it all in trigger pads and electronics. The best kits are from A Farewell to Kings to Grace Under Pressure.

http://i642.photobucket.com/albums/uu141/J84466/TJH_2203.jpg

Awesome!

[Pavlos]

Looks like the kit sold for over $25k. Now that's a cool piece of memorabilia.

[alparrott]

Not strictly drumming related, but certainly Neil related. Rush.com and Rushisaband.com are reporting the birth of Olivia Louise Peart to father Neil and mother Carrie.

Quote:
August 24, 2009
The RUSH family congratulates Neil and his wife Carrie on the birth of their healthy, beautiful daughter Olivia Louise Peart.

Congrats to the parents.

[aydee]

Not strictly drumming related,...

Now if he had fathered triplets, that woulda been something...

[BrewBillfold]

Didn't read the whole thread, and it may be far beyond this discussion by now, but on the issue of playing things "note for note" live, it's simply a matter of taste. Some people like to hear things played "note for note", just like the records, live, and some people do not. I'm in the "do not" category. I like Neil's playing a lot, but when I go to a concert, I want to hear something different than the records. It's not a matter of improvisation, necessarily, but at least evolution. There's not a right answer. It's just a different preference.

Also, unless I were making a TON of money doing it, I wouldn't want to be in a band that did things note-for-note live. Once I play or record something, I don't want to study it so I can recreate it. I don't mind still playing those songs, but I want to move on and keep developing them, so that years later, they're transformed into something very different. If someone wants to hear what we played or recorded years ago, they should put on the record.

[michael drums]

Didn't read the whole thread, and it may be far beyond this discussion by now, but on the issue of playing things "note for note" live, it's simply a matter of taste. Some people like to hear things played "note for note", just like the records, live, and some people do not. I'm in the "do not" category. I like Neil's playing a lot, but when I go to a concert, I want to hear something different than the records. It's not a matter of improvisation, necessarily, but at least evolution. There's not a right answer. It's just a different preference.

Also, unless I were making a TON of money doing it, I wouldn't want to be in a band that did things note-for-note live. Once I play or record something, I don't want to study it so I can recreate it. I don't mind still playing those songs, but I want to move on and keep developing them, so that years later, they're transformed into something very different. If someone wants to hear what we played or recorded years ago, they should put on the record.

Hey BB!

You make a great case for the improv/evolution side. I can understand where you're coming from. It's nice to hear a song evolve and change to get a different perspective of how it was originally intended.

Though, I have to disagree when it comes to Rush. I DO wanna hear the song(s) played the same live as it/they was/were recorded. That's what makes Rush such a great band, and Neil Peart such a fantastic drummer.

Their recordings are so pristine, you HAVE to admire that they can pull off the songs live, and appreciate their commitment to the music. Sort of like a masterpiece painting in a museum. You wouldn't want to have someone redo it and change it to look differently, would you?

To hear and see the song "Natural Science" live now, the way it was recorded back in 1979/1980 is an amazing feat, if you ask me.

That's what impresses me about NP. His commitment to the "masterpiece"

[Mediocrefunkybeat]

Sort of like a masterpiece painting in a museum. You wouldn't want to have someone redo it and change it to look differently, would you?

Personally, yes. A masterpiece is a masterpiece, but a re-interpretation of a masterpiece creates potential for another one.

[LinearDrummer]

Didn't read the whole thread, and it may be far beyond this discussion by now, but on the issue of playing things "note for note" live, it's simply a matter of taste. Some people like to hear things played "note for note", just like the records, live, and some people do not. I'm in the "do not" category. I like Neil's playing a lot, but when I go to a concert, I want to hear something different than the records. It's not a matter of improvisation, necessarily, but at least evolution. There's not a right answer. It's just a different preference.



I would agree but there is something about Rush for me that is the exception.

Its like Neil's signature fills are so recognizable as part of the songs that changing them would be like changing a chord/key/lyrics live. Like the intro to Sprit of the Radio, Tom Sawyer breakdown, the end of Limelight and so on.

Maybe it would be nice to see Neil play a more open improvisational drum solo tho.

[michael drums]

Personally, yes. A masterpiece is a masterpiece, but a re-interpretation of a masterpiece creates potential for another one.

Nah. Have to disagree. No one would want to change a Picasso, a van Gogh, a Renior, or a DaVinci. That would be ridiculous.

"Works of art" are that for what they are. Changing them doesn't increase the beauty of them.

They don't need a "re-interpretation".

[michael drums]

I would agree but there is something about Rush for me that is the exception.

Its like Neil's signature fills are so recognizable as part of the songs that changing them would be like changing a chord/key/lyrics live. Like the intro to Sprit of the Radio, Tom Sawyer breakdown, the end of Limelight and so on.

Maybe it would be nice to see Neil play a more open improvisational drum solo tho.

Oh yes, LD. Neil talks quite often about "not" wanting to play the same solo exactly the same in each show. He's quite adamant about how he doesn't want to be too repetitious with his solos. He does "improv" his concert solos as much as he can.

[Mediocrefunkybeat]

Nah. Have to disagree. No one would want to change a Picasso, a van Gogh, a Renior, or a DaVinci. That would be ridiculous.

"Works of art" are that for what they are. Changing them doesn't increase the beauty of them.

They don't need a "re-interpretation".

Picasso re-defined works he'd done in a career as a more realistic painter to create the masterpieces. Ergo, re-interpretation. The same is true of Renoir, DaVinci and Van Gogh. These are all re-interpretations of other works. Music isn't a static art either, unlike painting. Would you ask Van Gogh to re-paint the same picture every night for thirty years? Of course not.

[michael drums]

Picasso re-defined works he'd done in a career as a more realistic painter to create the masterpieces. Ergo, re-interpretation. The same is true of Renoir, DaVinci and Van Gogh. These are all re-interpretations of other works. Music isn't a static art either, unlike painting. Would you ask Van Gogh to re-paint the same picture every night for thirty years? Of course not.

Yes. But the "finished" work is what makes the piece. And what Neil Peart records on a particular Rush song, is the "finished" work. To hear him play his master"piece" live, is the genius of his playing.

Like going to see a great artists' painting in a museum. You don't want to see a different "interpretation" of his/her specific painting each time you see it. It's a work-of-art for it's "finished" artistry. At the risk of repeating myself, of course.

[Mediocrefunkybeat]

Music is never finished. That's why I said it's not a static art. Records are static, but that does not mean that the work is finished. If you heard Thom Yorke playing his 'Eraser' material live, they are complete re-works of the album tracks - just to name one example. Records are often derided by non-musical artists as being a horribly static form of something that is ultimately fluid.

[michael drums]

Music is never finished. That's why I said it's not a static art. Records are static, but that does not mean that the work is finished. If you heard Thom Yorke playing his 'Eraser' material live, they are complete re-works of the album tracks - just to name one example. Records are often derided by non-musical artists as being a horribly static form of something that is ultimately fluid.

Well, it's just like everything else. It's all "opinion". I'm a huge Rush fan. You're probably not. So we will have different takes on this. But I'm not a fan of "re-working" songs/albums that don't need it.

And Rush has a ton of these.

[SickRick]

Michael, I know you are an uber-fan of NP and Rush which is fine. I don't want to mess with that - it's your personal taste.

But just one bit food for thought: If you went to a Rush concert and NP actually did play things differently from the records, including grooves and fills. Do you as the NP fan that you are honestly think that would have been a worse concert for that reason, even if NP would have played the new stuff in his very own vibe (perfect execution, trademark grooves/fills but maybe played a little different or at different spots)? Or would you maybe walk out of that concert thinking it was the greatest event ever because it surprised you and moved you in a different way than you had expected it?

I have the slight impression that you've become such an extreme fan of NP and (probably due to many discussions on the internet) maybe a bit overly defensive, so when it comes to any kind of discussion about him, you automatically stand behind what Neil does. I guess that if Neil was famous for delivering perfect studio tracks but changing these live with his sense of moments, you'd now be defending that against people who would say: "I'd prefer him to play everything exactly like it is recorded".

This is really not meant to pick on you, just as I said: Food for thought.

One more point: I honestly don't think you can compare painting to musicmaking. You could probably compare action-painting (where the act of painting itself becomes the piece of art) to the act of making music and compare a finished, static painting to a recording. But comparing a static painting to an act of making music doesn't really work in my book.

Lastly, to throw in my own two cents: I am not a fan of a 1:1 reproduction of music on stage - I could instead just listen to a record instead. I prefer "revisiting" songs live... you know: Play all the things that are important to the song (which will really force you to think about what actually is important to a particular song and of course I know that in the case of Rush, many people will say "every note on the record played by Neil is important to the song") but leave maybe a little room to surprise the audience or even to surprise yourself on stage. I'd say that most of my favourite moments in concerts (both on stage and in the audience) were these moments, were things happen that no one would have expected to happen.


Anyway, interesting points in this thread.

[Strangelove]

I think all this discussion of changing up composition in concerts is pretty senseless myself. A lot of guitarists are guilty of this as well. Is David Gilmour a lesser guitarist than Jimmy Page for playing Comfortably Numb note for note with the album? Page would never do that. As for drummers, Neil is one of the best and thats all that needs to be said. There's a lot of drummers with the "artistic expression" to vary every night that still absolutely suck in comparison to Mr Peart, so what difference does it really make?

[OMCHAVARIUM]

Definitly One of the legend in Progressive Drumming....
I really like his newest Kit... The Snakes & Arrows kit....

http://www.andrewolson.com/Neil_Peart/snakesarrows/tour/images/img8.jpg

[DrumEatDrum]

An article I came across.

Neil discussing Rush may release new songs, but not an album, and Neil recording a new version of "The Hockey Theme"

http://jam.canoe.ca/Music/2010/01/13/12452396-cp.html?cid=rssentertainmentmusic
Click the link for the whole article,

A few excerpts:

suddenly albums don't mean anything," Peart told The Canadian Press in a telephone interview from his home in California.

"We're thinking of writing and recording a few songs and maybe releasing them, and playing them live, and then going back and doing some more later.


Peart was similarly forward-thinking when it came time to record a new version of "The Hockey Theme," the iconic song that has opened broadcasts of "Hockey Night in Canada" for 40 years.

Peart's version will debut on TSN during Thursday's broadcast of the Toronto-Philadelphia game and will then be used for the rest of the season by the network.

After being "blown away" by the invitation to recreate the classic tune, Peart decided on his approach: a "drum solo with horns."

[Ian Williams]

Mr. Peart is a true '' Genius''. I do like his style and respect his achievements as a musician, but I find his playing way too technical for my taste.

[MikeM]

I've seen Rush 5 times and I've always spotted areas where he's thought of something he liked better than when he recorded it, and then changed it.

Somewhere on the net, I found a piece of audio of Rush playing Limelight before NP finished writing his drum part and definitely before it was recorded for Moving Pictures. It was radically different. I like what he settled on better, but it does make the point that any part can be revisited at anytime and improvements made - even for Neil Peart.

[supermac]

Worth a look




http://www.rushisaband.com/display.php?id=2054

[Pavlos]

Looks like Neil has another new kit with a hockey theme. Too cool.

And here's an article about his version of the HNIC theme being on itunes with a portion of proceeds going to NHL Hockey fights cancer.

http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/story/?id=306925

[Strangelove]

Somewhere on the net, I found a piece of audio of Rush playing Limelight before NP finished writing his drum part and definitely before it was recorded for Moving Pictures. It was radically different. I like what he settled on better, but it does make the point that any part can be revisited at anytime and improvements made - even for Neil Peart.

What I really like about NP is that he reminds me of an athlete who is never satisfied until he pushes himself to his physical best everytime. He sculpts his segments very methodically, and pushes himself to do one better than the last time he played it. I think he serves as a real role model for all younger drummers as to what hard work and alot of practice yields.

[MikeM]

Somewhere on the net, I found a piece of audio of Rush playing Limelight before NP finished writing his drum part and definitely before it was recorded for Moving Pictures. It was radically different. I like what he settled on better, but it does make the point that any part can be revisited at anytime and improvements made - even for Neil Peart.
I found that clip. (http://www.musicintheabstract.org/rush-oddities/audio/limelight-pre-release.mp3) Sometimes I get so used to hearing him playing a song a certain way that I lose sight of all the ideas he must've tried and discarded during the writing process.

[Drums101]

He's pretty good, but never thought that much of him.

[CCdrummer]

the this could be you singing:
Suddenly ahead of me
Across the mountainside
A gleaming alloy air car
Shoots towards me, two lanes wide
I spin around with shrieking tires
To run the deadly race
Go screaming through the valley
As another joins the chase

Thanks Nutha, I had an Uncle who passed away recently who had a farm. (My Uncle has a country place...) He was someone I could always talk to when times were rough. This made me think of him and now I also what to relearn that song as my own private tribute.

Thanks Neil and thanks drummerworld.

[Fuo]

Peart used a custom-designed drumset while recording the song. The set is adorned with the logos of all 30 NHL teams - each one sprayed and masked by hand, one colour at a time, he said - and a blue chrome finish that Peart wanted to look like icicles.

The set will now be kept in the Hockey Hall of Fame. That fact delights Peart, in part, because he says he was never very talented as a hockey player growing up.

"What a joke, eh!" he said with a laugh. "I made the joke to my mom, I said: 'Take THAT, bullies from 50 years ago!'

"The other joke is that we (Rush) have not been put in the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame, but now we're in the Hockey Hall of Fame.

"I think, as Canadians, we're satisfied."

haha. that's awesome.

[Strangelove]

He's pretty good, but never thought that much of him.

Huh? Pretty Good? Please elaborate as to what is better.

[Swiss Matthias]

Wow!! I literally discovered Neil Pearts playing today! I've never heard a Rush song before but decided to listen through Moving Pictures, and I must say, I'm amazed! Not sooo much by the singing, a little by the songs, but very much with Neil's playing! Love it! I think I will get more into the songs and the singing though.
Have to check out some more Peart stuff now :).

[beatklops]

hey there,

just been watching some Peart Videos online, and after i thought about speaking my mind on him for a few years now actually, i decided to finally do so.

On a personal level, i really like the guy (from what i can tell through interviews etc.). Also i think he has a very good attitude towards his instrument and " to always be learning." I think you have to admire a person who carries himself that way (sorry for my english....)

But also - and unfortunately for him, because i bet he didnt start the myth and wouldnt want himself to be considered the best or anything like that - he is one of the most overrated drummers of all time, at least in my opinion. I want to explain this by adressing some of the most popular arguments about his playing:
1. His technical skills are amazing.
He has good technique - at the things hes playing (wich i'll get to later). But any Drummer who practices regulary and the right way can achieve Pearts level of technique in a relatively short amount of time (I'd say about 5 years, if not less, but thats debatable). Since he doesn't do any advanced independence or polyrythmic stuff it just boils down to pure hand and feet speed. I think his singles are pretty good, his doubles are not that fast though. His feet are ok. Keep in mind this is all IMHO. And dont give me the "Playing over 3 is hard "(regarding one of his foot ostinatos hes playing all the time, RLL) - it's just not.

2. He's totally creative and comes up with Stuff no one can come up with
Well i actually think hes creative. At least he was once in his life when i came up with that solo hes been playing for a gazillion years now. And maybe at the Time this stuff was innovative. But now it isnt anymore. I'd like to make one point clear though: i'm speaking to drummers here (i hope). So i think you guys should understand that writing or performing a drumsolo which makes an audience go crazy - a good thing and something i admire about peart - does not necessarily mean its the most creative or expressive solo. Like in Language theres things certain people just dont understand because of a lack in vocabulary. A perfect example would be the a tony royster jr. solo video that appears on the side of a peart video on youtube and leads a lot of peart guys to it - in that video tony plays a great solo but incorporates a lot of advanced stuff like overrideng and/or playing polyrithmic patterns. In the Comments of that clip you see a lot of Peart Comparisons, where fanboys write that to them it sounds like random banging on the drums without concept, which is ridiculous. Drummers at the level of Royster (just an example, I'm not even mentioning greats like vinnie or dennis chambers) could write and perform a solo like pearts while sleeping. They just dont do it because their vocabulary is much bigger and they like to express their emotions on a much more complex level. To a person who can understand these concepts and the patterns/phrases they play, their solos are much more touching, creative and awe inspiring than anything Mr. Peart could do. I'm not saying that i want constant Polyrithmic wanking or 10 minutes of blistering fast double bass playing. But these things can make a solo much better played at the right spot. And sorry to say this, Mr.Peart just simply cant play them, so he doesnt even have the option, wich in itself IMO should clear out any doubts about if he's the best. hes just playing the same patterns and phrases over and over again, nothing creative to me there nowadays. And im not even starting about his humongous kit. I'd like to see Mr.Peart play a solo on a 3 Piece kit and see what "great phrases" he comes up with. Even at the buddy rich memorial he had to bring those cowbells, so he could play his lame signature doubles/melody phrase thing. How creative is that? Please.

I'd like to close my statement with the Fact that i would never in my Life write such a post, if there wasn't this gigantic hype around the man. I respect him and his playing and i wish him all the best and success. But i think its a slap in the face to all those guys that have invested much more time and energy in developing their craft and have deliverd so much more interesting efforts on the instrument, to say that he is the best Drummer ever or anything even remotely close (btw out of all the "overrated drummers - Portnoy, Jordison, Barker, etc- i still like him the most :-))

Best wishes

Mitchi

[yesdog]

There are inovaters and imitators. If it was not for neil peart there would not be a mike portney or Danny carry prog type drummers. So in five years you will be better than Neil Peart. Yes there are plenty of Drummers out there better than Neil or maybe not.
You are Judging art. As one drummer said is pocasso better than monet. or is a big mac better than a royal with cheese. yes I am and always will be a Peart fan. Big influence as a kid. As far as his drum solo goes, Thats is trade mark, Do you actualy think A hard core Rush fan would want to hear a different solo. Thats one of the reasons Rush fans love Neil Peart. They want to hear that solo. its like them wanting to hear spirit of radio.
Yes us drummers love to see amazing technical stuff. But music fans like music and concerts, they could give a rats ass about someones amazing technque. They want to see a good show. Neil peart is not underated he was and still is one of the greatest inovators of rock Like, John Bonham, Keith moon. Than drummers who play fast singles
and play a bunch nonsence

[Pocket-full-of-gold]

hey there,

just been watching some Peart Videos online, and after i thought about speaking my mind on him for a few years now actually, i decided to finally do so..................


Overrated??? It's cool to have an opinion mate and yours is no less valued than anyone elses, but throwing terms round like "overrated" is just sheer foolishness.

I saw someone say the same thing about Bonham recently. You don't dig him? That's totally cool, but don't ever underestimate the power of the Peart's, Bonham's, Moon's and Starr's that have been the sole reason that many an aspiring drummer picked up the sticks in the first instance.

Not to your tastes, perhaps. But "overrated" is just a ridiculous thing to say.

Ask yourself, would we have the Portnoy's, the Carey's et al, if it wasn't for the fore runners like Peart? Would we have the Bonham's and the Peart's without the Rich's, Krupa's, Bellson's and Morello's? Each up and coming generation should quite rightly "raise the bar", but that should in no way diminish those that came before them.

[MikeM]

You know, I just gotta say that while I agree that he's not the "best in the world" (whatever that might mean), it's worth keeping in mind that most signature drummers do their most ground-breaking work when they're in their 20s, and into their 30s if they're lucky.

And it's not just drummers, it's a common phenomenon - take Einstein for example. He was in his 20s when in 1905 he published papers on Special Relativity and the photoelectric effect (for which he won the Nobel). He was in his 30s when in 1916 he published General Relativity. After that? Practically nothing, other than trying to convince himself that "God doesn't play dice" which clearly, he does! (see quantum theory, which Einstein spent the rest of his days trying to refute). He never came close to those youthful achievements, despite his best efforts.

Here's another example (and back to rock): Look at Van Halen. They jumped the shark with 1984 and everyone pretty well knows that (maybe even before then depending on who you ask). At least for those of us old enough to remember them in their heyday. Van Hagar is no more representative of the magic of that band than anything NP's done since the early/mid '80s.

If you listen to Neil Peart between the years '76 and '81 (2112 thru Moving Pictures) you get the most accurate representation of why NP is so revered among (most) drummers. Sure, he's still trying new things, is entertaining, and seems like a nice guy... but that fire he had then just can't be recaptured. It's been gone for years - decades, even. You can't just watch him with the Buddy Rich big band and think you know all there is to know about him. You can't watch his modern solos and think that that's what he's been doing all along. If you want to understand what the fuss is about, you have to go back further; back when he was keen to make a name for himself - not after he'd done so.

Perhaps the song "Losing It" was him coming to the realization that he was about to start burning out. I think if you're making judgments on him based on anything Power Windows or later, your missing out on what it was that made him so great to begin with. (I still like a lot of later Rush, but for different reasons)

Go back and listen to the Working Man solo on "All The World's A Stage" and listen to that 23 year old tearing into that kit with such abandon and exuberance and tell me that he wasn't an exceptional talent. That thing was as musical as it was epic. His solos have evolved over the years (as all things must), but they've never approached the energy of that one.

Limelight - listen to him smoothly and subtly invert his 4/4 beat against the 6/8 for 8 bars and then invert it back again nearing the outtro, which most drummers probably never even noticed despite having listened (and air drummed) to it a thousand times. That was before guys like Vinnie and Dave made beat inversions commonplace and obnoxiously obvious. And that "solo" at the ending? Wow. Keep in mind this was a major radio hit.

Nobody gets to go that over the top without losing the audience, yet as drummers (and non-drummers), we're awed that that level of complexity and audacity could be completely tasteful and appropriate - necessary, even. It just makes me laugh. He was the first drummer that I was aware of, then or since, that elevated drum compositions to such a degree. It's wasn't just accompaniment or showboating; it was somewhere in between and beyond. He brought rock drumming to a new creative level on par with the other instruments. Perhaps his most significant achievement was being the first universally recognized great rock drummer who wasn't a converted jazz drummer - he was rock from the word "go". (Mitchell, Giles, Bruford, Palmer,... even Bonham had that swing)

Did I mention that he raised the bar on precision? He may look and sound stiff now, but when he was younger and more limber, he was uber-precise and powerful. Not a robot, but a finely-tuned, well-oiled machine.

It was never so much that he was the "best" at chops (although they were mighty and fearsome), but that his time was so consistently smooth, his fills so accurate and well-conceived, and overall, his compositions were so clever and clean and just so far beyond just banging out a standard rock and roll beat... it was the combination of all those virtues that has won him more awards than any other drummer to come along. The guy clearly loved playing the drums more than anything else in life. That may not be true anymore, but it was then.

Overrated? This drummer doesn't think so.

[Swiss Matthias]

Overrated??? It's cool to have an opinion mate and yours is no less valued than anyone elses, but throwing terms round like "overrated" is just sheer foolishness.

I saw someone say the same thing about Bonham recently. You don't dig him? That's totally cool, but don't ever underestimate the power of the Peart's, Bonham's, Moon's and Starr's that have been the sole reason that many an aspiring drummer picked up the sticks in the first instance.

Not to your tastes, perhaps. But "overrated" is just a ridiculous thing to say.

Ask yourself, would we have the Portnoy's, the Carey's et al, if it wasn't for the fore runners like Peart? Would we have the Bonham's and the Peart's without the Rich's, Krupa's, Bellson's and Morello's? Each up and coming generation should quite rightly "raise the bar", but that should in no way diminish those that came before them.

There is no " ' " in all the plural's ;)!

[Swiss Matthias]

I like your post, MikeM, good points.

[Pocket-full-of-gold]

There is no " ' " in all the plural's ;)!

I can remove them if it's an issue :-)

Gotta (I know, I know) admit Swiss.........I'd rather see a few misplaced " ' " than the constant barrage of symbols, simbles, thrown's and base drum pettals that are all too prevalent on the forums.

[Jeff Gordon #24]

hey there,

just been watching some Peart Videos online, and after i thought about speaking my mind on him for a few years now actually, i decided to finally do so.

On a personal level, i really like the guy (from what i can tell through interviews etc.). Also i think he has a very good attitude towards his instrument and " to always be learning." I think you have to admire a person who carries himself that way (sorry for my english....)

But also - and unfortunately for him, because i bet he didnt start the myth and wouldnt want himself to be considered the best or anything like that - he is one of the most overrated drummers of all time, at least in my opinion. I want to explain this by adressing some of the most popular arguments about his playing:
1. His technical skills are amazing.
He has good technique - at the things hes playing (wich i'll get to later). But any Drummer who practices regulary and the right way can achieve Pearts level of technique in a relatively short amount of time (I'd say about 5 years, if not less, but thats debatable). Since he doesn't do any advanced independence or polyrythmic stuff it just boils down to pure hand and feet speed. I think his singles are pretty good, his doubles are not that fast though. His feet are ok. Keep in mind this is all IMHO. And dont give me the "Playing over 3 is hard "(regarding one of his foot ostinatos hes playing all the time, RLL) - it's just not.

2. He's totally creative and comes up with Stuff no one can come up with
Well i actually think hes creative. At least he was once in his life when i came up with that solo hes been playing for a gazillion years now. And maybe at the Time this stuff was innovative. But now it isnt anymore. I'd like to make one point clear though: i'm speaking to drummers here (i hope). So i think you guys should understand that writing or performing a drumsolo which makes an audience go crazy - a good thing and something i admire about peart - does not necessarily mean its the most creative or expressive solo. Like in Language theres things certain people just dont understand because of a lack in vocabulary. A perfect example would be the a tony royster jr. solo video that appears on the side of a peart video on youtube and leads a lot of peart guys to it - in that video tony plays a great solo but incorporates a lot of advanced stuff like overrideng and/or playing polyrithmic patterns. In the Comments of that clip you see a lot of Peart Comparisons, where fanboys write that to them it sounds like random banging on the drums without concept, which is ridiculous. Drummers at the level of Royster (just an example, I'm not even mentioning greats like vinnie or dennis chambers) could write and perform a solo like pearts while sleeping. They just dont do it because their vocabulary is much bigger and they like to express their emotions on a much more complex level. To a person who can understand these concepts and the patterns/phrases they play, their solos are much more touching, creative and awe inspiring than anything Mr. Peart could do. I'm not saying that i want constant Polyrithmic wanking or 10 minutes of blistering fast double bass playing. But these things can make a solo much better played at the right spot. And sorry to say this, Mr.Peart just simply cant play them, so he doesnt even have the option, wich in itself IMO should clear out any doubts about if he's the best. hes just playing the same patterns and phrases over and over again, nothing creative to me there nowadays. And im not even starting about his humongous kit. I'd like to see Mr.Peart play a solo on a 3 Piece kit and see what "great phrases" he comes up with. Even at the buddy rich memorial he had to bring those cowbells, so he could play his lame signature doubles/melody phrase thing. How creative is that? Please.

I'd like to close my statement with the Fact that i would never in my Life write such a post, if there wasn't this gigantic hype around the man. I respect him and his playing and i wish him all the best and success. But i think its a slap in the face to all those guys that have invested much more time and energy in developing their craft and have deliverd so much more interesting efforts on the instrument, to say that he is the best Drummer ever or anything even remotely close (btw out of all the "overrated drummers - Portnoy, Jordison, Barker, etc- i still like him the most :-))

Best wishes

Mitchi

Welcome to DrummerWorld, Mitchi. Hope you enjoy your stay.

With that being said, I have to strongly disagree with your O P I N I O N . You attack Peart's playing by suggesting that Colaiuta and Chambers can do a Peart solo while sleeping. Wow! You say Peart is creative, then blast him for doing the same patterns and phrases over and over again(again...your opinion) Huh? Gigantic hype about the man? Really?

Well...I constantly see present day drummers' bios listing NP as a huge influence. Accomplished drummers point to him as someone they listened to growing up and were in awe of his playing. He's won countless drumming awards since the 70's...and STILL does to this day. Always listed and nominated on many readers polls from an array of drum magazines. As far as rock drummers, he is without a doubt, one of the top drummers ever. He's earned enough respect from Cathy Rich, Buddy Rich's daughter, to spearhead the Burning for Buddy series of recordings and shows. He gathered some of the most revered drummers in the world for that project in the mid 90's, and he also participated in the 2008 Buddy Rich Memorial Concert, AGAIN invited by Cathy Rich. He's had a hugely successful recording career with Rush, since 1975, with albums such as Fly By Night, 2112, and Hemispheres in the 70's. Permanent Waves, Moving Pictures, Signals, Power Windows, and Hold Your Fire in the 80's. Roll The Bones, Counterparts, and Test For Echo in the 90's. And the most recent work Snakes & Arrows.

I mean, what's your point Mitchi? Who's next on your radar, Bonham, Moon, Gadd, etc...

Who died and made you THE authority on who is overrated or underrated in the drumming world? Sounds like you are the next Buddy Rich. Oh wait, you probably think he's overrated too.

Thanks for your opinion, which I'm sure is not shared by most other "drumming" fans. Not "fanboys" as you call them. Don't get confused between infatuation and fact. I'm a call-it-like-I-see-it "drumming" enthusiast, who ain't buying what you're selling, Mitchi.

But in fairness to freedom of speech, you have every right to say whatever you believe no matter how different you think on this subject. I just strongly believe you are in the minority here, Mitchi.

[DrumEatDrum]

I was going to add something, but MikeM and Pocket-full-of-Gold said it all best.

OK, I will add this: yes, there are many drummers who are better soloists. But most people who worship Peart don't do so for his drum solo ability, and probably would list his solo ability near last in the reasons they like him.

It's for his song writing (lyrics) for what he does with-in the songs, and that he can play these technical parts in songs that people actually still want to hear.

Peart brings the whole package to the table, as opposed to some very talented people who don't having writing credits to their name and/or mostly play on music most non-musicians have never heard of. There are a lot of ubber technical drummers out there, but they are not on a radio, only play music most people have never heard of, and some of it leaves many people cold.

And if you read/listen to Peart interviews, for the most part, he regards himself as not all that talented.

But like MikeM said, you have to consider the context of the time. Comparing a 50+ old guy to a twenty something drummer is apples and oranges.

[Swiss Matthias]

I can remove them if it's an issue :-)

Gotta (I know, I know) admit Swiss.........I'd rather see a few misplaced " ' " than the constant barrage of symbols, simbles, thrown's and base drum pettals that are all too prevalent on the forums.


LOL, I love the "symbols" :D.

Not to forget all the rediculouses!

[beatklops]

To all the guys that replied to my little "rant": first of all thanks for your opinions. And to be honest, i guess it's not right to decide who is overrated so i apolologize for that. Keep in mind that i was watching a ton of Drummers i admire yesterday on youtube, and in every other Video somebody had to post: "Yeah, but Neil Peart shits all over this Guy!" or "This Chambers Guy is nothing compared to Neil Peart...". This just always gets to me :-)

When i started getting into Drums and Drummers, i always loved his Solos, and actually liked them more than more technical or intricate Stuff other Drummers did (which i later got into as i learned to understand their language). And maybe that's all there is to say about him. I still stand behind everything i said (besides the overrated thing to a degree) and i still think that there are many debatable points in what supposedly makes him so great, but he for sure did a lot for the drums and their role as a solo instrument and therefore deserves every bit of honor and success he has (like i said before).

Also maybe i need to say that i'm 24, so i don't really come from a generation, whre he had such a major impact playingwise (maybe, i don't know).

So again, all the best to you Mr.Peart and to all you Drummers in the Forum too, of course. May we have some interesting debates in the future :-)

Edit: PS: to Jeff Gordon: I never said Buddy Rich is overrated or even implied it. He's in my opinion the greatest Jazz Drummer ever. Bonham and Gadd are Legends in their own Rights. But don't get me started on Keith Moon...

... in the End its all personal preference i guess..

[Strangelove]

But most people who worship Peart don't do so for his drum solo ability, and probably would list his solo ability near last in the reasons they like him.



Yes, that would be me. IMO, Neil is one of the few drummers that meticulously sculpts his compositions. I never grow tired of the intro to Subdivisions - I love those ride bell syncopations. I always like the way he uses crashes as accents, like those big band drummers used splash cymbals. And his general syncopated style is just a pleasure to listen to. He is great because I never tire of listening to him. Neil is Rush. Of all the overrated rock drummers out there, why attack him? We got people slobbering over Charlie Watts and Phil Rudd around here. Sounds like a jealous resentment to me.

[TFITTING942]

[QUOTE=beatklops;685413]hey there,

1. His technical skills are amazing.
Since he doesn't do any advanced independence or polyrythmic stuff

I guess your not a Rush fan because he re-wrote the book on that stuff.

[beatklops]

I guess your not a Rush fan because he re-wrote the book on that stuff.

Thats exactly what i was speaking about in my previous posts. He re-wrote the book on that stuff?! COME ON! But if you really think so please elaborate on the intricacies of his highly sophisticated polyrhythmic structures and demanding independence involving grooves. Because im not perfect and i would be glad if somebody proved me wrong. Seriously.

Keep in mind that when Neil hit the Scene, Vinnie was already playing with Zappa...

Again, i just look at pure skill and technique here, his other achievements in music and drumming are absolutely legit. But this post below is exactly why i wrote something in here in the first place...

Best wishes

Mitchi

[TFITTING942]

Thats exactly what i was speaking about in my previous posts. He re-wrote the book on that stuff?! COME ON! But if you really think so please elaborate on the intricacies of his highly sophisticated polyrhythmic structures and demanding independence involving grooves. Because im not perfect and i would be glad if somebody proved me wrong. Seriously.

Keep in mind that when Neil hit the Scene, Vinnie was already playing with Zappa...

Again, i just look at pure skill and technique here, his other achievements in music and drumming are absolutely legit. But this post below is exactly why i wrote something in here in the first place...

Best wishes

Mitchi

Boy you got me there. I really only heard one song from them, Bob Saywer or something like that and it was real simple. ...

ever hear Mystic Rythms for example?

[beatklops]

So i just listened to mystic rythms and am really interested in where you think that song contains any polyrythms or stickings/grooves that require more than average independence. This song shows nothing of those. Maybe you just confuse some expressions here though...
Memorizing many different Song parts and playing odd Time signatures does not equal playing the above said stuff...

This is what i'm talking about: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6IY9xuwe6EE

I like the Song btw :-), except of Geddy Lees Hairstyle, but maybe that was just the 80s :D

[yesdog]

Here is another under rated drummer you mentioned. Performing a tribute to Mr Peart.
I was there watching this. He mentioned something about he was one of the reasons he picked up the sticks. Sarcastic mode: I'm sure his technique is sub par as well and has no
business playing drums. Sarcastic mode off.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jBnK7fC4yj0

[beatklops]

I never said hes underrated. I mentioned him as overrated (portnoy that is). But i already said that maybe this is not a description i have the right to use in this context. So i'll ust say that Mr. Portnoy IMHO falls under exactly the same category Mr.Peart falls into, which is why its no surprise to me that he pays him tribute. Although i think Peart actually did a little more for Drumming in general.

I think you dont want to understand me yesdog, i dont say that these guys cant play. My point is about Skill and Vocabulary.

I own each and every dream theater album btw.

[droveto]

Neil's awesome at life.

[DrumEatDrum]

Keep in mind that when Neil hit the Scene, Vinnie was already playing with Zappa...



Not really true.

Vinnie joined Zappa in 1978. Joe's Garage came out in 1979

Neil joined Rush in 1974. Fly By Night came out in 1975.

So, technically, Neil was first.

Now if you said Terry Bozzio, you might be on to something.

[DrumEatDrum]

So i just listened to mystic rythms and am really interested in where you think that song contains any polyrythms or stickings/grooves that require more than average independence. This song shows nothing of those. Maybe you just confuse some expressions here though...
Memorizing many different Song parts and playing odd Time signatures does not equal playing the above said stuff...

This is what i'm talking about: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6IY9xuwe6EE

I like the Song btw :-), except of Geddy Lees Hairstyle, but maybe that was just the 80s :D

Since when are playing poly-rhythms the sole factor that determines how good a drummer is?

Just because YOU apply one criteria to determine whom is better does NOT mean other people do as well.

And honestly, who gives a flying you-know-what whom is a better drummer anyway?
Did some Rush fan pee in your cereal this morning so you feel the need to crap all over Neil to make yourself feel better?

[Pocket-full-of-gold]

And honestly, who gives a flying you-know-what whom is a better drummer anyway?


Pretty much sums up my feelings on it all.

Since when did, drumming/drummers/music in general ever become a competition?..........oh that's right....DAMN YOU.....'Idol'.....X-Factor.....(insert your nation)'s Got Talent!!

"I didn't come to the Grammy's to watch anyone win or lose......I came to watch everyone play" - Ringo Starr. Sage words indeed.


Now, for the real test. What is the BEST soft drink.....Coke or Pepsi? Surely EVERYONE knows it's Coke.....I HATE friggen' Pepsi!!

[yesdog]

I dont understand the obsession with polyrhythms and stickings and blah blah blah.
In the real world if you are hired to play a session or audition for a band, I got news for you,
other musicians could give a flying F^%$$ about that stuff. Our job as a drummer is to keep time and add flavor to the music. I don't think playing 5 over 4 will go over well in most music settings. unless you want to get fired. Dave Weckl played on a song called like a virgin from madonna, Dave is one of the best drummers out there, but he played what was called for.

[yesdog]

Pretty much sums up my feelings on it all.

Since when did, drumming/drummers/music in general ever become a competition?..........oh that's right....DAMN YOU.....'Idol'.....X-Factor.....(insert your nation)'s Got Talent!!

"I didn't come to the Grammy's to watch anyone win or lose......I came to watch everyone play" - Ringo Starr. Sage words indeed.


Now, for the real test. What is the BEST soft drink.....Coke or Pepsi? Surely EVERYONE knows it's Coke.....I HATE friggen' Pepsi!!
Are you freakin crazy! Pepsi is the best. Coke sucks. By the way Chicago PIzza is better
than New York's Pizza. And yes I put ketchup on my hot dogs ( thats taboo in Chicago )

[Strangelove]

Not really true.

Vinnie joined Zappa in 1978. Joe's Garage came out in 1979

Neil joined Rush in 1974. Fly By Night came out in 1975.

So, technically, Neil was first.

Now if you said Terry Bozzio, you might be on to something.

Actually, I think Bozzio would not have been correct either. Probably Aynsley Dunbar back in that era, then before him Jimmy Carl Black. Zappa changed drummers more than clothes, I think. Either way, he's way off on Vinnie.

I don't know what's going on here other than the usual young male competitive thing. Who's the baddest in town? Shall we have a shootout? I'll bet Neil could care a less. Beatklops - if it's Youtube comments that set you off, rest assured that most of the remarks on Youtube are from adolescent punks. I often watch videos of some classic bass players on there, and have to tolerate all the comments how Flea and Les Claypool can play circles around them. It's of course not true, but I feel no urge to go find a thread on either Les or Flea and urinate all over them, either. They aren't the ones making claims like that - the know nothing punks are.

Now if it was Ginger Baker, that's another story.......................

[beatklops]

You guys still don't get it, and thats fine with me. Because you obviously do not want to understand what i'm trying to convey. You still try to put it like i said Peart is bad or Vinnie is better - this is not what its about. I was simply responding to the guy who said that neil re-wrote the book on Polyrythms and Independence, which is absolute nonsense in my opinion. I also NEVER said, that these things are neccesary to do a good drum track/solo. But they CAN make it better. Btw Weckl is not the only Big Chops Guy who laid down simple pop tracks, and again: I never claimed that this would be a bad thing. I dont know what your problem is, really.

So finally: I THINK NEIL PEARTS TECHNICAL SKILLS GET MORE RESPECT THAN THEY SHOULD. Which says nothing about him being a good or bad drummer (or even his songwriting). But since i'm obviously in the wrong place to have an educated discussion about this subject, and am no longer willing to get words put into my mouth, i'll leave you guys to it...

"People always hear what they want to hear."

[Strangelove]

I thought you were leaving it to us after your first or second post. You are now up to 6, so it must be a pretty passionate topic for you. Come on - 8 total posts here and 6 are directed at Peart.

We weren't born yesterday, ace.

[Jeff Gordon #24]

You guys still don't get it, and thats fine with me. Because you obviously do not want to understand what i'm trying to convey. You still try to put it like i said Peart is bad or Vinnie is better - this is not what its about. I was simply responding to the guy who said that neil re-wrote the book on Polyrythms and Independence, which is absolute nonsense in my opinion. I also NEVER said, that these things are neccesary to do a good drum track/solo. But they CAN make it better. Btw Weckl is not the only Big Chops Guy who laid down simple pop tracks, and again: I never claimed that this would be a bad thing. I dont know what your problem is, really.

So finally: I THINK NEIL PEARTS TECHNICAL SKILLS GET MORE RESPECT THAN THEY SHOULD. Which says nothing about him being a good or bad drummer (or even his songwriting). But since i'm obviously in the wrong place to have an educated discussion about this subject, and am no longer willing to get words put into my mouth, i'll leave you guys to it...

"People always hear what they want to hear."

Hey beatklops...you opened up a can of worms with your initial Peart -bashing post, ie...Vinnie and Dennis can play a Peart solo in their sleep. Among other rather ridiculous rants about one of the greatest and influentual rock drummers of all times. So what do you expect to get back from your fire-breathing unrespectful post(s)?

Clearly, you're in the minority like I said before. So when you make comments like you have, that are just your opinion, you have to expect not-so-favorable reactions from others that don't share this opinion.

I will give you credit though, for having the "stones" to be quite dis-respectful to a VERY accomplished drummer like Neil Peart, right outta the gate. You only had 1 or 2 posts here on DW's forum when you posted on this NP thread. WOW!

Bravery or foolishness?

I, personally, will just have to agree to totally disagree with you here, Mitchi. And please don't try to disapprove of any other legendary, influentual, and accomplished drummers here on DW. It really doesn't help in any way to criticize and disrespect. What's the point?

It only breeds contempt.

[LinearDrummer]

You are Judging art. As one drummer said is pocasso better than monet.



Exactly!
He has good technique - at the things hes playing (wich i'll get to later). But any Drummer who practices regulary and the right way can achieve Pearts level of technique in a relatively short amount of time (I'd say about 5 years, if not less, but thats debatable).


"beatklops" what is your criteria for being the super technical drummer you've described?

[MikeM]

Round 2:
But also - and unfortunately for him, because i bet he didnt start the myth and wouldnt want himself to be considered the best or anything like that - he is one of the most overrated drummers of all time, at least in my opinion. I want to explain this by adressing some of the most popular arguments about his playing:
I think I already beat this one to death in my previous post, but just to recap, I don’t think he’s overrated except by those applying the wrong set of metrics – that’s those on both sides of this.

His technical skills are amazing.
He has good technique - at the things hes playing (wich i'll get to later). But any Drummer who practices regulary and the right way can achieve Pearts level of technique in a relatively short amount of time (I'd say about 5 years, if not less, but thats debatable). Since he doesn't do any advanced independence or polyrythmic stuff it just boils down to pure hand and feet speed. I think his singles are pretty good, his doubles are not that fast though. His feet are ok. Keep in mind this is all IMHO. And dont give me the "Playing over 3 is hard "(regarding one of his foot ostinatos hes playing all the time, RLL) - it's just not.
Your first point is well taken. I’ve thought that myself. But I also think that Mystic Rhythms was a pretty good example of him using independence. I never thought of it as polyrhythmic stuff, though – there’s no 5 against 7 or even 3 against 4 going on there, but there is a lot of layering and things to keep track of. His four limbs are all involved in making that thing happen, and it sounds cool, which is easily the coolest thing about it. A beat like that was uncharted territory, though, and he did have to figure out how to fit and phrase all those little flourishes in there without breaking the flow, so I don’t think you can call him lazy. He did give it a lot of thought.

His single strokes and double strokes are pretty good, but nothing far beyond what you might expect. Those ostinatos are tricky and can certainly help with the independence. For me, I just don’t think they sound that cool. That’s just a personal thing I have – I didn’t like them when Bozzio started doing them either. I thought I’d rather shoot myself than spend 5 minutes on them. But more power to anyone wanting to go there.

2. He's totally creative and comes up with Stuff no one can come up with
It’s not that he comes up with stuff that no one else CAN come up with, it’s that he comes up with stuff that no one else DOES come up with. That’s a really big and important difference.

Well i actually think hes creative. At least he was once in his life when i came up with that solo hes been playing for a gazillion years now. And maybe at the Time this stuff was innovative. But now it isnt anymore.
You’re right about hearing it in the context of time. Having grown up in the late ‘70s and early ‘80s I was hearing Neil in his prime. I’m not nearly as big a fan of his work in more recent years, but I still don’t think he’s overrated.

Again about the solo’s. I agree that the cowbell thing is very very tired. I also grew weary of that 7/8 marimba melody like 100 years ago. I might be one of those guys that takes a popcorn break during his solos. But again, go back to All The World’s A Stage, or even Exit, Stage Left and listen to those solos from when he was young. They were like songs in their own right and were evolving even then. I think they were quite good if primarily from a compositional perspective.

A perfect example would be the a tony royster jr. solo video…[he] plays a great solo but incorporates a lot of advanced stuff like overrideng and/or playing polyrithmic patterns.
Seriously? Tony Royster? If you’re looking to the gospel chops guys, at least pick Aaron Spears or Thomas Pridgen. But I digress, yes these guys are playing chops far beyond what NP was ever capable of playing, and that cool. However, none of them are nearly as organized and compositional as NP. Here’s where it’s important not to distinguish who’s “better” but who’s really giving it some thought with a wider view.

Problem is with most technique monsters like that is that when they decide to tone down the overplaying, they just go for the straight groove (like Weckl playing with Madonna). For them it’s one or the other. The thing about NP is that he was always able to find a middle ground that was complimentary to the music. He didn’t not fight the music by laying back; he didn’t not fight the music by becoming more integrated with it. That was the key, and it had little to do with how blazing his chops were.

Could other drummers have taken this path? Yes, if among other things, they were in bands that could accommodate that (another important consideration), but did they? With few exceptions, no, they didn’t.

Drummers at the level of Royster (just an example, I'm not even mentioning greats like vinnie or dennis chambers) could write and perform a solo like pearts while sleeping. They just dont do it because their vocabulary is much bigger and they like to express their emotions on a much more complex level.
Again, it’s the fact that they don’t have that compositional sense that Peart has. Of course they have the physical chops to do whatever NP does, but they have to wait for NP to compose it before they can demonstrate “how easy it is”, rather than not waiting for NP and composing something equally as compelling.

And sorry to say this, Mr.Peart just simply cant play them [polyrhythmic wanking and blistering double bass], so he doesnt even have the option, wich in itself IMO should clear out any doubts about if he's the best.
Here we go with the “best” again. Be mature enough to ignore those that say NP is the “best” and remember to ask yourself: “best” at what?

And im not even starting about his humongous kit. I'd like to see Mr.Peart play a solo on a 3 Piece kit and see what "great phrases" he comes up with.
NP likes melodic tom parts. Can’t really fault him for that. I play 3 toms on my kit (one up two down) and get the cocked eyebrow from two-tom hipsters from time to time. You know what? Screw people that judge based on kit size. I don’t hear anyone knocking Ed Shaugnessy with his 5 up 2 down double bass, which is pretty close to what NP uses.

And as far as “great phrases” listen to the string of fills on the outtro of The Weapon or the middle section of Red Sector A (which is just very cool and even more original). Hard to play? Some of it is. But really hard to come up with. That’s just inspired stuff there, IMO. Again, easy to knock the technique involved and even easier to miss how clever it was to begin with.

It’s like The Beatles. None of those guys thought of themselves as great players. They knew that they were just good enough to execute the ideas they had, but for them the ideas were the only thing that mattered. Some people call that “dumbing down” but screw them, they don’t get that composing itself is a craft that IMO takes a lot more thought and talent than just learning to wiggle your fingers quickly.

Song writing (or drum part writing) is the hard part. Practicing rudiments and speed are easy. Like you said, anyone can develop those skill in a few years of disciplined practice, but you may never reach the ability to compose something truly original. A lot of players in my experience are so anal retentive about practicing that they can’t find it in them to get inspired to compose or just play for the fun of it.

Sad, really. That’s how we get in these maddening debates about who’s better than who.

But i think its a slap in the face to all those guys that have invested much more time and energy in developing their craft and have deliverd so much more interesting efforts on the instrument…
I might turn that around on you and say it’s a slap in the face to every drummer who puts composition above the strict technique who’s place seems to only belong in a solo aimed at proving superiority over other drummers. It's a high-minded facade hiding the fact that you're the competitive drum jock on the playground trying to knock the fun out of everyone else's play time.

Spend a little more time thinking about what makes a part cool and how to get there, and I think you'll spend a lot less time worrying about who's "overrated", or figuring out acedemic ostinatos or polyrhythms pitting a 7 against a 13 - they just don’t sound that cool.

[beatklops]

Thanks for your post Mike. Made me think... Bashing is an accomplished drummer (or musician) is probably never good so i guess you guys are right about the fact that coming here (of all places) and writing what i wrote serves no real purpose. So i'll try to be a bit more positive in future posts on this forum :D Although i dont really see how the number of Posts corellates with what one puts into them...

Anyhow, off to a good start i guess :-)

PS: Royster was just the Example because of that Youtube Link thing i explained in an Earlier Post. I like Spears or Pridgen (Sometimes) better...

[beatklops]

...above the strict technique who’s place seems to only belong in a solo aimed at proving superiority over other drummers.

A non-Peart related point: I really do think that good technique and Vocabulary on the kit can make you a better Drummer. And in my Opinion a good solo expresses Emotions.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q50Scn6BSrY
This is my personal favorite drum solo performance and i think this man is not trying to prove superiority over others even if hes incorporating some of the Stuff thats been discussed here before.

Rock on

Mitchi

[Swiss Matthias]

Great solo, thanks for the link!

[DrumEatDrum]

Round 2:

It’s not that he comes up with stuff that no one else CAN come up with, it’s that he comes up with stuff that no one else DOES come up with. That’s a really big and important difference.

.................................................. ................................

I might turn that around on you and say it’s a slap in the face to every drummer who puts composition above the strict technique who’s place seems to only belong in a solo aimed at proving superiority over other drummers. It's a high-minded facade hiding the fact that you're the competitive drum jock on the playground trying to knock the fun out of everyone else's play time.


MikeM is my new hero.

You nailed it, end of story.

[Ian Williams]

Excellent debrief on this subject, good job! mate.


Round 2:
I think I already beat this one to death in my previous post, but just to recap, I don’t think he’s overrated except by those applying the wrong set of metrics – that’s those on both sides of this.


Your first point is well taken. I’ve thought that myself. But I also think that Mystic Rhythms was a pretty good example of him using independence. I never thought of it as polyrhythmic stuff, though – there’s no 5 against 7 or even 3 against 4 going on there, but there is a lot of layering and things to keep track of. His four limbs are all involved in making that thing happen, and it sounds cool, which is easily the coolest thing about it. A beat like that was uncharted territory, though, and he did have to figure out how to fit and phrase all those little flourishes in there without breaking the flow, so I don’t think you can call him lazy. He did give it a lot of thought.

His single strokes and double strokes are pretty good, but nothing far beyond what you might expect. Those ostinatos are tricky and can certainly help with the independence. For me, I just don’t think they sound that cool. That’s just a personal thing I have – I didn’t like them when Bozzio started doing them either. I thought I’d rather shoot myself than spend 5 minutes on them. But more power to anyone wanting to go there.


It’s not that he comes up with stuff that no one else CAN come up with, it’s that he comes up with stuff that no one else DOES come up with. That’s a really big and important difference.

You’re right about hearing it in the context of time. Having grown up in the late ‘70s and early ‘80s I was hearing Neil in his prime. I’m not nearly as big a fan of his work in more recent years, but I still don’t think he’s overrated.

Again about the solo’s. I agree that the cowbell thing is very very tired. I also grew weary of that 7/8 marimba melody like 100 years ago. I might be one of those guys that takes a popcorn break during his solos. But again, go back to All The World’s A Stage, or even Exit, Stage Left and listen to those solos from when he was young. They were like songs in their own right and were evolving even then. I think they were quite good if primarily from a compositional perspective.

Seriously? Tony Royster? If you’re looking to the gospel chops guys, at least pick Aaron Spears or Thomas Pridgen. But I digress, yes these guys are playing chops far beyond what NP was ever capable of playing, and that cool. However, none of them are nearly as organized and compositional as NP. Here’s where it’s important not to distinguish who’s “better” but who’s really giving it some thought with a wider view.

Problem is with most technique monsters like that is that when they decide to tone down the overplaying, they just go for the straight groove (like Weckl playing with Madonna). For them it’s one or the other. The thing about NP is that he was always able to find a middle ground that was complimentary to the music. He didn’t not fight the music by laying back; he didn’t not fight the music by becoming more integrated with it. That was the key, and it had little to do with how blazing his chops were.

Could other drummers have taken this path? Yes, if among other things, they were in bands that could accommodate that (another important consideration), but did they? With few exceptions, no, they didn’t.

Again, it’s the fact that they don’t have that compositional sense that Peart has. Of course they have the physical chops to do whatever NP does, but they have to wait for NP to compose it before they can demonstrate “how easy it is”, rather than not waiting for NP and composing something equally as compelling.

Here we go with the “best” again. Be mature enough to ignore those that say NP is the “best” and remember to ask yourself: “best” at what?

NP likes melodic tom parts. Can’t really fault him for that. I play 3 toms on my kit (one up two down) and get the cocked eyebrow from two-tom hipsters from time to time. You know what? Screw people that judge based on kit size. I don’t hear anyone knocking Ed Shaugnessy with his 5 up 2 down double bass, which is pretty close to what NP uses.

And as far as “great phrases” listen to the string of fills on the outtro of The Weapon or the middle section of Red Sector A (which is just very cool and even more original). Hard to play? Some of it is. But really hard to come up with. That’s just inspired stuff there, IMO. Again, easy to knock the technique involved and even easier to miss how clever it was to begin with.

It’s like The Beatles. None of those guys thought of themselves as great players. They knew that they were just good enough to execute the ideas they had, but for them the ideas were the only thing that mattered. Some people call that “dumbing down” but screw them, they don’t get that composing itself is a craft that IMO takes a lot more thought and talent than just learning to wiggle your fingers quickly.

Song writing (or drum part writing) is the hard part. Practicing rudiments and speed are easy. Like you said, anyone can develop those skill in a few years of disciplined practice, but you may never reach the ability to compose something truly original. A lot of players in my experience are so anal retentive about practicing that they can’t find it in them to get inspired to compose or just play for the fun of it.

Sad, really. That’s how we get in these maddening debates about who’s better than who.


I might turn that around on you and say it’s a slap in the face to every drummer who puts composition above the strict technique who’s place seems to only belong in a solo aimed at proving superiority over other drummers. It's a high-minded facade hiding the fact that you're the competitive drum jock on the playground trying to knock the fun out of everyone else's play time.

Spend a little more time thinking about what makes a part cool and how to get there, and I think you'll spend a lot less time worrying about who's "overrated", or figuring out acedemic ostinatos or polyrhythms pitting a 7 against a 13 - they just don’t sound that cool.

[Pocket-full-of-gold]

Excellent debrief on this subject, good job! mate.

Agreed....one of the best rebuttals I've come across. Remind me never to tangle with you Michael! :-)

[DrumEatDrum]

Rush has all new tour dates on their site, Rush.com

[Zumba_Zumba]

I never said hes underrated. I mentioned him as overrated (portnoy that is). But i already said that maybe this is not a description i have the right to use in this context. So i'll ust say that Mr. Portnoy IMHO falls under exactly the same category Mr.Peart falls into, which is why its no surprise to me that he pays him tribute. Although i think Peart actually did a little more for Drumming in general.

I think you dont want to understand me yesdog, i dont say that these guys cant play. My point is about Skill and Vocabulary.

I own each and every dream theater album btw.

Do you really take Youtube comments seriously? Should I then take your poorly substantiated claims seriously? For one example, the innovation people may have been writing about does not deal with his solos. Instead, I believe they meant his drum patterns composed for Rush's songs. Songs like Scars, Territories, Tai Shan, and Xanadu have drum parts that are quite unique and provided mainstream listeners with something exciting and different. I also think you don't quite understand the Mystic Rhythms drum parts. In albums such as Power Windows, Hold Your Fire and Counterparts, there are a lot of notes triggered by pads and a left-sided pedal. There tends to be more going on there than meets the ear.

You better hope Michael Drums doesn't read your rant. He will, quite literally, have a brain aneurism.

[Pollyanna]

Of course Neil is wildly overrated but that's just how things are. Once someone - in any field - gains a certain level of attention it snowballs and they become more famous because they are famous. Ditto Bonzo and Ringo and Gadd. Ditto Paris Hilton and Lara Bingle, for that matter.

Over 20 pages here for Neil - many times more than remarkable drummers with great technique and compositional sense like Billy Cobham, Bill Bruford, Chris Culter etc. The attention a drummer receives is only a very rough guide as to his or her prowess.

The Neils, Bonzos, Ringos and Steves of this world are fabulous in their own way, but the attention they receive would have you think they were a hundred times better than their peers. In truth they simply have some qualities that people find a little bit more appealing, or their bands are more popular.

Peart/Bruford, Bonzo/Paice, Ringo/Charlie, Gadd/Jordan - miles of difference in quality? They are all close peers, except maybe Neil and Bill, where the latter is a clearly superior prog drummer in every respect apart from showmanship IMO :) *ducks for cover*

More interesting than rating drummers is working out what the X-factor qualities are that first gained attention (before the celebrity snowball effect exaggerated their reputations).

[beatklops]

@zumba_zumba

i don't think you're in a position to decide wether i understand or fully comprehend the drumpart to this song. I'm well aware of whats going on there rythmically and whats being played by mr.peart.

And i dont care who's having a brain aneurism (in a sense - of course i care) - i spoke my mind and thats my right. As to my claims being unsubstantiated: even MikeM acknowledges my arguments about the technical aspects of Neils Playing...and thats all my "claims" were about.

Anyhow, Mikes Post remains very good and thoughtful and i'm not gonna whine around here again about Mr.Peart.

All the best

[DrumEatDrum]

except maybe Neil and Bill, where the latter is a clearly superior prog drummer in every respect apart from showmanship IMO :) *ducks for cover*
.

Well, Neil considers Bruford one his hero's, so Neil would probably gladly tell you Bill is a better player.

[Zumba_Zumba]

@zumba_zumba

i don't think you're in a position to decide wether i understand or fully comprehend the drumpart to this song. I'm well aware of whats going on there rythmically and whats being played by mr.peart.

And i dont care who's having a brain aneurism (in a sense - of course i care) - i spoke my mind and thats my right. As to my claims being unsubstantiated: even MikeM acknowledges my arguments about the technical aspects of Neils Playing...and thats all my "claims" were about.

Anyhow, Mikes Post remains very good and thoughtful and i'm not gonna whine around here again about Mr.Peart.

All the best

I don't think you are in a position to decide on Neil's credibility, technical aspects or otherwise. I am however in a position to respond to your post which is my right as a forum member. You seem to come across with a little arrogance which makes it hard to keep responses to you civil. So keep your cool, we are two people behind computers far away from each other having a little argument.

The brain aneurysm thing was about a die-hard forum member that usually responds to posts like yours. I'm shocked he hasn't yet. It was kind of a joke but I guess taking fire from others can make one defensive. All the best to you too.

[MikeM]

A non-Peart related point: I really do think that good technique and Vocabulary on the kit can make you a better Drummer. And in my Opinion a good solo expresses Emotions.I can't disagree with that.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q50Scn6BSrY
This is my personal favorite drum solo performance and i think this man is not trying to prove superiority over others even if hes incorporating some of the Stuff thats been discussed here before.
Joel Rosenblatt is an amazing drummer for sure. I don't want to take anything away from him here, but he is playing a form where players are featured, as in step up and show us your chops, which is a little different than making your crazy playing working in a "song" context. But that's why people like that kind of music; so they can watch far-out players like that showing off everything they've got.

Anyway, Neil Peart was my favorite drummer when I first started out playing and I did think he was the "best", (so I get where new drummer get that) but he was just a gateway to a lot of other really great drummers for me. So like you, I began to question how good NP really was. His technique is nothing compared to Gadd or Greb or any number of other guys. BUT, I came back to the realization that it wasn't so much about how good his chops were, but how good his compositions were. Of course, not everyone else is as impressed with his compositional style as I am so we're free to disagree on that stuff.

Of course Neil is wildly overrated but that's just how things are. Once someone - in any field - gains a certain level of attention it snowballs and they become more famous because they are famous...

More interesting than rating drummers is working out what the X-factor qualities are that first gained attention (before the celebrity snowball effect exaggerated their reputations).

Hi Polly - things slowing down on the Kenny G thread, are they?

That's an interesting point - trying to figure out the X-factor. I know you're not much of a NP fan, so I'll assume your role here is pure harassment ;)

[DrumEatDrum]

You better hope Michael Drums doesn't read your rant. He will, quite literally, have a brain aneurism.

I

The brain aneurysm thing was about a die-hard forum member that usually responds to posts like yours. I'm shocked he hasn't yet. .

+1. I had the same exact thought. haha. Where has he been?

He must be busy standing in line for tickets for the upcoming tour!

[MikeM]

I haven't seen Rush since '86 but seeing that they're coming here this summer, I'm thinking about going to see them. Tickets go on sale next weekend. Of course, I thought that last two (or three) times they came around and always found other things I'd rather be doing. It would be cool to see them play all of Moving Pictures! That was the first concert I ever went to (Rush Moving Pictures tour).

[Strangelove]

Perhaps it is my old age, but to me, solos mean very little to nothing from any musical standpoint at all. Most are not pleasant to listen to, although, like watching a very good athletic event, can be entertaining in that sense.

I'm with Mike on Neil's composition abilities, and will offer something to evaluate a great drummer with, beyond polyrythms, speed, timing, rudimentary skills, and all the other criteria we throw around. Do they actually sound good? I recently saw a guitarists poll on greatest solos. Gilmore's "Comfortably Numb" was voted first. Now I am not a great guitarist by any means, but I could play that myself if a sat down and worked at it. I thought to myself - how ridiculous (rediculouss) for that to be #1 - what about Blackmore's Highway Star, Burn, or Lazy? What about Malmsteen, Van Halen, or other fret burners? But it dawned on me too that Confortably Numb is one of the absolute coolest sounding guitar solos I have ever listened to. Who does not get captivated just listening to it? Peart is the same way with the drums. Mike you mentioned Red Sector A - the middle section I think. The part I love about that song the most is Neil's syncopated ride bell part during the chorus. Nobody else would have composed the drums that way, and I listen to that song mainly to hear that part. It's nothing that complicated, just a pleasure to the ears and it is an awesome rythm, too. The same with his intro to Subdivisions and Distant Early Warning. I just can't hear those enough. Anyway, that's my take on qualities of great drummers. Is Neil the best? Probably not. Is he one the greatest? Yes, definitely.

Anyway, Beatklops, willkommen, mein freund. Sorry we got into a big fight right at first, but we are not always this way around here. I look forward to your insight into drummers and equipment.

[TFITTING942]

I haven't seen Rush since '86 but seeing that they're coming here this summer, I'm thinking about going to see them. Tickets go on sale next weekend. Of course, I thought that last two (or three) times they came around and always found other things I'd rather be doing. It would be cool to see them play all of Moving Pictures! That was the first concert I ever went to (Rush Moving Pictures tour).

Mike, you will probably enjoy the show a lot. I saw them last year and was so glad to see the old stuff played again as well as the new. I personally only like their albums up to Subdivisions. After that they got a little week for me. I brought my brother-in law who was a non Rush fan ( not a hater but more of a Phish fan). He said it was the best live show he had ever seen and wanted to borrow some of my Rush cd's afterwards. For three senior citizens, they rock!

[CCdrummer]

While I found the youtube links to Vinnie's playing to be jaw dropping to say the least, it will never speak to me or hit me emotionally in the way that Peart's playing has over the years.

I guess thats why we call it art.

[LinearDrummer]

.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q50Scn6BSrY
This is my personal favorite drum solo performance and i think this man is not trying to prove superiority over others even if hes incorporating some of the Stuff thats been discussed here before.

Rock on

Mitchi

Thats a great clip...Joel is a great player.
He paints a picture musically his way just as Neil does one in his own way.

Thats what makes drumming so cool is that everyone has their own voice.

But I don't understand what that clip has to do with a NP thread. Are you expected Neil to play fusion chops in a rock setting?

[DrumEatDrum]

Perhaps it is my old age, but to me, solos mean very little to nothing from any musical standpoint at all. Most are not pleasant to listen to, although, like watching a very good athletic event, can be entertaining in that sense.

.

I'm the same way. I'd rather here the band play another song than listen the drummer do solo.

Kind of funny, Eric Singer is on the cover of Modern Drummer, and he mentions he doesn't really like to take solos any more, but often the rest of the band wants him to so they can take a break (of course, he's a hired gun, not a band member, so if the boss says take a solo, you do what your paid to do.)

[Pocket-full-of-gold]

Thats what makes drumming so cool is that everyone has their own voice.

Well said sir.

Indeed it would be a boring existence if we all played the same. 99.9% of the greats, wouldn't be great....they just be great copiers. We wouldn't have threads running to over 20 pages long, we wouldn't need this forum to discuss gear and how best to acheive 'your' sound....we'd all play the same gear, the same way. And above all, we wouldn't be discussing what drummers are to our particular taste. No-one HAS to like a particular drummer, but anyone who's been playing at the top level for so many years is certainly worthy of respect, even if you don't dig their particular style.

[Zumba_Zumba]

+1. I had the same exact thought. haha. Where has he been?

He must be busy standing in line for tickets for the upcoming tour!

That, or he hasn't come to yet from passing out after reading that post. I have a feeling we will hear from the mighty Michael Drums soon.

[Strangelove]

BTW, here is a great cover of Red Sector A by a guy that uses totally acoustic drums:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2h_LiPfabaw&feature=related

[Jeremy Bender]

I have always wondered what the sticking is to a signature lick he plays. It's a flurry of toms and double bass sextuplets. Can anyone accurately transcribe this please?

It occurs at exactly 2:36-2:37 of this video. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KNZru4JG_Uo

[paradiddler]

I have always wondered what the sticking is to a signature lick he plays. It's a flurry of toms and double bass sextuplets. Can anyone accurately transcribe this please?

It occurs at exactly 2:36-2:37 of this video. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KNZru4JG_Uo

Hi Jeremy.

I'm not a transcriber per se, but I saw the lick. All it is really is a roll of two tom strikes, then two bass drum strikes, repeated six times. Four singles repeated six times, or two doubles repeated six times, whichever makes more sense to you. If you listen to "Tom Sawyer" in any of it's recordings, this is what it sounds like. Check out the lick in the Grace Under Pressure Live DVD - very pronounced there.

Hope it helps!

[DrumEatDrum]

I have always wondered what the sticking is to a signature lick he plays. It's a flurry of toms and double bass sextuplets. Can anyone accurately transcribe this please?

It occurs at exactly 2:36-2:37 of this video. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KNZru4JG_Uo

It's pretty much just R L on the hands followed by R L on the feet. Some times he'll throw a flam in place of a distinct R L to give it a little more rhythmic variation (as he does on Distant Early Warning).

There are several books that have the exact transcription for that song.

[CCdrummer]

I am looking at the transcription by Bill Wheeler, and its 4 sextuplets, two on hands and then two on feet.

[Zumba_Zumba]

The "four step roll" as it is called in parts of the world. Bonham did a three step roll quite often or would do a fast double for the fourth note. Moby Dick is a great example of the three step roll. "Exit...Stage Left" has lots of this four step roll (Xanadu, etc.)

[Jeremy Bender]

Thanks for the help guys! It does sound very cool when executed smoothly and up to speed.

I wonder what other drummer uses this and in what style?

[Zumba_Zumba]

Portnoy, Jordison, Tim "Herb" Alexander, Simon Phillips, Alex Van Halen, Greg Bisonnette. To name a few. Other drummers tend to play this with a double stroke on the bass drum. It can be played either with a bass drum lead or hand lead from what I observe.

[jamest]

BTW, here is a great cover of Red Sector A by a guy that uses totally acoustic drums:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2h_LiPfabaw&feature=related

Awsome vid, not a bad job at all!
__________________

"When the going gets tough, the tough get going!"

http://www.excellent-offers.com/gravy1.jpg

[scorch whammin]

Does anyone know where you can get a drumless track for Red Sector A?

[simmsdn]

Just went to see the Time Machine Tour 2011 last night in Louisville at the new KFC Yum! Center.

Show was outstanding, Rush played for over 3 hours to include the entire Moving Pictures album.

Neil solo was outstanding as always. They played a lot of lesser known songs.

Encore included La Villa Stangiato. Neil was great the whole night through. I love Rush's self-depricating humor. It's nice to see some highly successful musicians who are capable of making a joke out of themselves and who obviously have a lot of fun on stage performing together. They take their music serious, not themselves.

Interesting, the only time Neil's kit turned around to the electronic side was for a portion of his solo - they focused on Rush-through-Signals and then Roll the Bones through today songs - skipped the mid-80s electronica stuff.

Was surprised to see a lot of parents with their teenagers in there! Great way to expose kids to good music.

[NPYYZ]

I've been lurking around here for quite a while and just started posting a day or so ago. I'm 51. I started playing drums at age 14. in 1976 at age 16 I was in the local record shop. I saw this album with a huge double bass kit on the front, it was Rush's All The Worlds A Stage. I'd never heard of them, but because of the kit I bought the album. I got home , put the album on and just couldn't believe what I was hearing. After I finished listening I took the rest of the money I had saved up and went back to the record store and bought Fly By Night, Caress of Steel, and 2112. From that day on my approach to the drums changed. Neil Peart became my idol, my inspiration, and my teacher. I spend every free minute practicing and learning every Rush song I could get my hands on

I continued to develop my drumming skills through listening to Neils playing. He was most definitely my biggest influence. Neil Peart is far from the best drummer in the world. I could name 10 drummers in 10 seconds that are more skilled then Neil, however he is still one of my favorites of all time. Mainly because for me I heard Neil do things first, the multi tom fills, the odd time, the creativity, the precision, the skill.
I've followed Rush and Neil since then and always enjoyed the day when a new rush album would come out. I like them all in there own way.

In 2004 I put a Rush Tribute Band together for one show, It was a local show with a bunch of bands to raise money for cancer. We did an hour and a half set and it was one of the funnest shows I've ever played. Here's the kit I put together for that show.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v70/NPYYZ/JoeKitG4.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v70/NPYYZ/RaboveGlarge.jpg

I even had the DW Edge NP Snare, Yeah I'm a fan.

[sticks4drums]

Nice kit man. He has been a huge influence on me also.
http://i1197.photobucket.com/albums/aa440/Sticks4drums/Large%20pics%20of%20my%20Saturn%20Kit/1109.jpg

[littledrummerboy98]

Neil Peart is my all time favorite drummer. I know he is not the best in the world, but that does not mean he has not influenced me and helped me become a better drummer. My dad was and still is a HUGE rush fan. He introduced me to Rush at a young age and I was after hearing the first song I was hooked. I was bewildered by the way the drummer on this one track contolled the song. The creativity, the rythms, all these things created a perfect harmony between the song and the drummer. As I got older, I thought alot about why this one drummer could captivate me so much. I figured it out around the time I was eleven years old. Neil Peart can create melodies and back the rest of the bands melodies with the drums, an instrument traditionaly used as a back beat to a song. I relized that if you take Geddy and Alex out of the songs, and Neil was the only one left, he would be able to create songs and melodies from behind that monstorous kit of his. Neil captured people's attention early in his career with his creative rythyms and melodies and wouln't let anyones attention stray away, ever. He will always be inovating, always be creating, always be playing those jaw dropping solos that seem to grow and grow each year. Neil will always be one of the most greatest, most innovative drummers in the instruments long past.

[littledrummerboy98]

Does anyone know where you can get a drumless track for Red Sector A?

If i were you I would just google it. I found a ton of drumless tracks, but it takes a while to find a good one.

[Kyndig]

For those who don't know yet. David Letterman is doing a "Drum Solos" week starting June 6, 2011. Neil Peart is scheduled and rumor has it that he will be doing a rare tv interview.

[DrumEatDrum]

I came across a video interview of Neil discussing the 30th anniversary of Moving Pictures, and discussing the album track by track.

http://www.cbc.ca/strombo/show-music/neil-peart-on-moving-pictures-track-by-track.html

[bolweevil]

I came across a video interview of Neil discussing the 30th anniversary of Moving Pictures, and discussing the album track by track.

http://www.cbc.ca/strombo/show-music/neil-peart-on-moving-pictures-track-by-track.html

Thanks mightily for the link! Enjoying the video at the very moment.

[karmadharma]

I came across a video interview of Neil discussing the 30th anniversary of Moving Pictures, and discussing the album track by track.

http://www.cbc.ca/strombo/show-music/neil-peart-on-moving-pictures-track-by-track.html

thanks a lot for posting this interview, it was great to listen to!

[Ian Williams]

Something different to watch!

Fire On Ice - The making of the Jockey Theme:

http://www.drummerworld.com/Videos/neilpeartfireonice.html

[drummerjr]

why is neil peart so special ? He can hit the drums but there is a lot of other drummers like: benny greb, dave weckl, jojo mayer, steve gadd, vinnie caliuta ..... neil peart is nothing comanpared to this guys. He is a good drummer but he is not a LEGEND. Please tell me if im rong. Thanks =)

[sticks4drums]

why is neil peart so special ? He can hit the drums but there is a lot of other drummers like: benny greb, dave weckl, jojo mayer, steve gadd, vinnie caliuta ..... neil peart is nothing comanpared to this guys. He is a good drummer but he is not a LEGEND. Please tell me if im rong. Thanks =)
Well for one he can spell. Yes you are wrong. Most people don't have a clue who those other drummers are.

[Swiss Matthias]

why is neil peart so special ? He can hit the drums but there is a lot of other drummers like: benny greb, dave weckl, jojo mayer, steve gadd, vinnie caliuta ..... neil peart is nothing comanpared to this guys. He is a good drummer but he is not a LEGEND. Please tell me if im rong. Thanks =)

You can't just compare all drummers like that. First of all they have different styles,
second they're different generations, and third you have to find out how all drummers
in all generations relate to each other - who learned from whom, who invented what,
who inspired following generations.

I.e. you can't really compare Neil Peart who created his own thing to Benny Greb who
didn't even live then :).

I'm not really a fan of Neil per se, but he sure is special, because he really developed
his own unique style, and for those who like it, he is very compositional.

Plus: If you want to compare drummers with the result of saying XY is "nothing" to YZ,
I'm sure you completely forget music. It's not just about technical abilities. You have
to see and kind of rate the music behind the notes! So I'm sure there is no great drummer
who is "nothing" musically at all.

[MikeM]

Well for one he can spell. Why do you gotta be such an ass whenever someone doesn't get off on NP the way you do?

[sticks4drums]

You really have to be bored to follow my posts all the time.

[8Mile]

I've been listening to older Rush again lately and I've rediscovered what I loved so much about Neil's playing. First of all, what he played sounded fresh and his technique was really clean. But most of all, it's what Neil talked about in that video clip from the Strombolopolous show; his compositional sense. He starts out by stating a theme and then he messes with it all kinds of different ways as the song progresses.

Here's a fun one from A Farewell To Kings: http://youtu.be/cu1UIEQ5QGs

Neil's part really takes off around the 3:13 mark.

[mxo721]

lol " put them in ( their place) not there place ;-)

[sticks4drums]

lol " put them in ( their place) not there place ;-)
Hey. I never said I could spell. Neil is the smart one. :)

[drummerjr]

thanks, now ive learned something =).

[drummerjr]

Sorry, i have another question. For me all the great drummer must be good in all styles. Could Neil Peart play, samba, funk, smooth jazz, d`n´b, and lots of diferent stiles perfectly?. Thanks and sorry for waist your time. =)

[drummerjr]

You can't just compare all drummers like that. First of all they have different styles,
second they're different generations, and third you have to find out how all drummers
in all generations relate to each other - who learned from whom, who invented what,
who inspired following generations.

I.e. you can't really compare Neil Peart who created his own thing to Benny Greb who
didn't even live then :).

I'm not really a fan of Neil per se, but he sure is special, because he really developed
his own unique style, and for those who like it, he is very compositional.

Plus: If you want to compare drummers with the result of saying XY is "nothing" to YZ,
I'm sure you completely forget music. It's not just about technical abilities. You have
to see and kind of rate the music behind the notes! So I'm sure there is no great drummer
who is "nothing" musically at all.

thanks, for the best explanation yet.

[sticks4drums]

Sorry for being short with you but I have read a lot of negative stuff on this site lately about Neil. Consider this. He became a Legend in a band that was not even mainstream popular like Led Zeppelin, Beatles, or the Who. There must be a reason so many thought he was so different, to elevate him over so many others. Not just the general public, but many professional drummers. He is a great Rock drummer. You don't have to know how to play all different styles of music to be great. That just makes you versatile. When was he supposed to take the time to learn all these other styles, and why did he have to. He has had a permanent Rock gig for the last 30 years. Not sure you can say that for most other drummers.

He also did not elevate himself to this status. He is a very shy person, that does not run around seeking all kinds of attention with his words like many other artists out there. He did it with his talent. If you haven't already, sit down and listen to his body of work. He has created some pretty amazing drum compositions. He also writes some pretty amazing lyrics. He certainly blows the dumb drummer stereotype out of the water. This guy has some smarts.

[drummerjr]

Sorry for being short with you but I have read a lot of negative stuff on this site lately about Neil. Consider this. He became a Legend in a band that was not even mainstream popular like Led Zeppelin, Beatles, or the Who. There must be a reason so many thought he was so different, to elevate him over so many others. Not just the general public, but many professional drummers. He is a great Rock drummer. You don't have to know how to play all different styles of music to be great. That just makes you versatile. When was he supposed to take the time to learn all these other styles, and why did he have to. He has had a permanent Rock gig for the last 30 years. Not sure you can say that for most other drummers.

He also did not elevate himself to this status. He is a very shy person, that does not run around seeking all kinds of attention with his words like many other artists out there. He did it with his talent. If you haven't already, sit down and listen to his body of work. He has created some pretty amazing drum compositions. He also writes some pretty amazing lyrics. He certainly blows the dumb drummer stereotype out of the water. This guy has some smarts.

thanks, i never said that he is a bad drummer i think he's greate. I just wanted to know why the people like NP so mutch and now i understand the reason. Thanks =)

[Teddy]

I find it so interesting just how polarizing opinions can be. For instance, a large majority of this site seems to hold Keith Moon and Neil Peart in less than favorable light, however they are my two favorites and two of my biggest inspirations in playing. on the other hand, most on this site seem to hold John Bonham to be the best drummer in rock history, however i never found him to be that impressive.

[DrumEatDrum]

NEW!

Neil Peart interview in the LA Times of all places.

Mostly dealing with staying healthy and fit.

http://www.latimes.com/health/la-he-fitness-neil-peart-20110725,0,1651065.story

[Yopps]

Latest news don't know if you guys know about this...

Peart, Copeland and Danny Carey all in the same room playing out...

Neil is playing a Tama, thought he was a DW whore now?

Check the video..

http://www.ultimate-guitar.com/news/online_downloads/rush_tool_primus_members_jam.html

[DrumEatDrum]

Latest news don't know if you guys know about this...

Peart, Copeland and Danny Carey all in the same room playing out...

Neil is playing a Tama, thought he was a DW whore now?

Check the video..

http://www.ultimate-guitar.com/news/online_downloads/rush_tool_primus_members_jam.html

He is playing Steward's kit. It's Steward's studio, and thus, all of Stewards gear.

[DrumEatDrum]

Neil has a new DVD in the works

http://www.hennemusic.com/2011/08/rush-neil-peart-instructional-video-due.html

[sticks4drums]

Neil has a new DVD in the works

http://www.hennemusic.com/2011/08/rush-neil-peart-instructional-video-due.html
Me thinks Neil is starting to come out of his shell a bit. Great to see. Thanks for the updates.

[DrumEatDrum]

I know what I want for Christmas:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AQGCqVvJMbE&feature=player_embedded

[sticks4drums]

I know what I want for Christmas:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AQGCqVvJMbE&feature=player_embedded
You can buy it for me, and I will buy it for you. :) Should be very cool.

[KarlCrafton]

That looks very cool. I'll get this one.




too :-)

[sticks4drums]

I think we should send one to Bernhard. :)

[frostyancestor]

Love Peart, my first main inspiration!
I'm in the drummer of tomorrow competition, please vote for me!

http://contest.drummeroftomorrow.com/contests/showentry/906599

[Bernhard]

Latest news don't know if you guys know about this...

Peart, Copeland and Danny Carey all in the same room playing out...

Neil is playing a Tama, thought he was a DW whore now?

Check the video..

http://www.ultimate-guitar.com/news/online_downloads/rush_tool_primus_members_jam.html

For me a poor appearance...

Bernhard

[sticks4drums]

For me a poor appearance...

Bernhard
I think it was meant to be fun. It was just to show us that all these guys got together to jam which is pretty cool.

[LinearDrummer]

Peart, Copeland and Danny Carey all in the same room playing out...
http://www.ultimate-guitar.com/news/online_downloads/rush_tool_primus_members_jam.html

Luvin some old school Nealio but...that was painful to watch.

[TOMANO]

My drumming style is a.) no where near his ability and b.) not similar in style. Peart's greatest influence on me has been his approach to music, and art in general. He is a tireless student of drums, and life, and continues to challenge himself.

Rock On!

MT

[sapsec]

Been reading these posts and had to submit my humble reply.

I go through these phases where I'm obsessed with Bonham for two weeks, then Buddy for two weeks, then Tito Puente for two weeks and so on. Well, for the past week it's been Neil and Rush. It seems every couple of weeks my opinion of "who the greatest drummer is" changes so I change my focus of who to study and learn from.

I've come to realize the greatest drummer ever is the one I'm currently hooked on and learning from. The drummer who is inspiring me to learn new fills, trying new time signatures, practicing with an effing metronome etc. Their greatest isn't measured in their feel and technique alone - Their greatness is measured by the affect they have on drumming, the music community and the timelessness of their art and passion.

To me, "great" means not easily forgotten or irrelevant. It doesn't mean how many 64th notes someone can play in a fill, their double bass speed, the number of tattoos or anything else. To me greatness means to inspire and there are a helluva lot of good drummers who are inspirational to me.

I work from home so today I was watching Rush In Rio and got inspired to go play for a bit - Grabbed my sticks, ran upstairs to my office and completely lost a half hour to playing. I don't remember what I played, I don't remember what happened around me and I don't care. I know for that 30 minutes I was the greatest drummer in the world because I was playing well, playing creatively, learning a few new tricks and having fun.

This week Neil is the greatest drummer ever because he inspired me to get away from SAP for a spell and work on my chops.

Thanks Pratt :)

[jofizzm]

For me a poor appearance...

Bernhard

He looks real old in that performance...and I don't mean him, I mean his playing. It really made me sad.

I love Neil, and I love Rush. I love his playing, and I love his songwriting. He gave Rush substance, and rhythm. He will always be the greatest drummer period, to me. But he looks worn out in that solo. And I get it, he is 60 years old. It's hard to play like that now, let alone when your 60. From what I've seen of him it seems here's a super humble dude, but I hope he knows he's inspired just as many kids to learn the drums, if not more than Moon and Bonham. He is a legend and an icon worth recognizing. Fuck the record labels, fuck the critics, Rush is just as good a band as Zeppelin and The Who, and BETTER than the Beatles. And I hope...I so fucking hope hope everyone realizes that before it's too late. Those three guys made amazing music. Neil Peart is the end all end all drummer for me. I would love to see the day where someone better comes along, but I'm not going to hold my breath. Every time I listen to Rush, it's so obvious that Neil invented modern metal drumming. That there could be no Dream Theater, not Lamb Of God, no Mastodon, no Machine Head, without Neil Peart and Rush. He has had an impact on me, and I can only assume every drummer out there, and he will continue to do so.

So if only one thing is taken away from what I've said, it's that Neil makes me want to play, and play better...