Neil Peart

[NEPnews2006]

I have the DVD as well. The man is VERY intellegent. I started to read his book "Ghost Rider", which i believe was written because of the tragedy of his wife and daughter, but had to leave the book store. Great drummer, but further more a Great man! I am a better drummer because of him.

Ps. Does anyone know what happened to his wife and daughter?


His daughter died in a one person/one vehicle accident coming home from college in route to her mom & dads home in the Quebec countryside. Jacqueline died less than a year later from what Doctor's diagnosed as cancer..but Neil sees it as a his wife/Selena's mother, as having died of a broken heart.

[Class A Drummer]

His daughter died in a one person/one vehicle accident coming home from college in route to her mom & dads home in the Quebec countryside. Jacqueline died less than a year later from what Doctor's diagnosed as cancer..but Neil sees it as a his wife/Selena's mother, as having died of a broken heart.
Im not sure, but didnt he say that on anatomy of a drum solo? i dont quite remember.

[LinearDrummer]

I was on Neils website a few months ago and Neil stated he had played duet drums w/his friend Gregg Bissonette. I have stated Gregg is my favorite drummer followed by Neil. I have known Gregg for over fifteen years and when I talked to Gregg about a month later I joked about why I was not invited to watch. He told me that Neil was kind of a private person. They went out on Greggs boat and Neil could name every bird and fish in sight. Gregg said he was very nice guy and a very smart man.

Greg seems like a real energetic out-going guy while Neal seems to be a bit more serious and private but I'm sure theres a humorous side to him....

See if Greg can setup a hidden tape recorder for you next time :-)

[mikeybbdrummin]

Greg seems like a real energetic out-going guy while Neal seems to be a bit more serious and private but I'm sure theres a humorous side to him....

See if Greg can setup a hidden tape recorder for you next time :-)

Gregg is very easy going, approachable and funny as well. And an incredible drummer.
Gregg and Neil are my two favorite drummers, so it would have been great to watch.
And to have a video of the event would be even better.

[h3r3tic]

I only just sawhim on a video clip of "anatomy of a drum solo"
He totally rocks!

[pudgytheclown]

oh my god i want that vid so much. Seriously who doesn't love Neil Peart?

[sshu]

I don't have the Anatomy CD ... I understand that Neil's waltz part of his solo might be influenced by Max Roach. Anyone know if Neil's solo is specifically influenced by Max Roach's solo in "Blues Waltz" from the "Jazz in 3/4 Time" album?

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0007KVAYS/ref=pd_rvi_gw_2/002-2039482-3811219?ie=UTF8

Coincidentally, I happened to get Max Roach's album just last week. While I was listening to it in the background, it reminded me of Peart's solo ...

Steve

[shuffle]

Listen to this one

http://www.drummerworld.com/Videos/maxroachwaltz.html

[sshu]

Listen to this one

http://www.drummerworld.com/Videos/maxroachwaltz.html

That's a cool one. Thanks for pointing it out. A little slower pace than Roach's Blues Waltz. It was the tom orchestrations on the Blues Waltz that made me think of Peart's solo. I think the one that you point out must be a more famous solo though.

Best!

Steve

[mikeybbdrummin]

Does anyone want to guess what the Rush/DW 30th anniversary commerative drum kit is going to be priced at? There is going to be only 30. Full acoustic kit and cymbals. I will guess first at $25,000.00. Next guess?

[dawg]

he ain't the only one influenced by max...check out the double dvd by led zeppelin. in "moby dick" he starts his solo in 3/4 with a nod to max roach.

[sshu]

he ain't the only one influenced by max...check out the double dvd by led zeppelin. in "moby dick" he starts his solo in 3/4 with a nod to max roach.

I will have to check that out. Thanks for the tip!

Steve

[timebandit]

Does anyone want to guess what the Rush/DW 30th anniversary commerative drum kit is going to be priced at? There is going to be only 30. Full acoustic kit and cymbals. I will guess first at $25,000.00. Next guess?
I think I heard somewhere it was going to be $30,000 to comemorate the thirtieth anniversary of Rush.

[dib da drummer]

Does anyone want to guess what the Rush/DW 30th anniversary commerative drum kit is going to be priced at? There is going to be only 30. Full acoustic kit and cymbals. I will guess first at $25,000.00. Next guess?

Hey mikey. It's gonna be more than 25 grand. They're "only" making 30 of them. And they
will all be custom made individually specific to each one. I'd say in the 35,000 to 40,000 dollar range. And whoever gets one will have a "prized" posession that they will cherish
for life! I KNOW I WOULD! Cya... ;-)

[kazzman]

Hey mikey. It's gonna be more than 25 grand. They're "only" making 30 of them. And they
will all be custom made individually specific to each one. I'd say in the 35,000 to 40,000 dollar range. And whoever gets one will have a "prized" posession that they will cherish
for life! I KNOW I WOULD! Cya... ;-)

It's $30,000.

The kit itself would normally have a retail price of around $53,000, but Guitar Center is selling them at $30,000 a piece due to the 30th Anniversary.

[mikeybbdrummin]

It's $30,000.

The kit itself would normally have a retail price of around $53,000, but Guitar Center is selling them at $30,000 a piece due to the 30th Anniversary.

I guess that would make sense. 30 of them, available 10-30, 30 year anniversary (even though Neil joined in 1975, really 31) and a cost of 30,000.00. Sounds logical.

[dib da drummer]

I think I heard somewhere it was going to be $30,000 to comemorate the thirtieth anniversary of Rush.

Hey bandit,

Just went to Guitar Centers' website. Can you let me know where it says that the
Neil Peart 30th Anniversary Commemorative DW Drumkit is going to cost $30,000? Where did you come up with that figure? You got an inside "scoop" on that information?
I'm just curious about that, because it sounds like you just made that up about the kit costing $30,000 to co-inside with the 30 year anniversary of Rush. I think the kit is
gonna cost more than that. They are only making 30 of them. That is what's linking this. One kit for every year of Rush. Not the cost of each kit. Please let me know. Thanks! ;-)


P.S. The cymbals ALONE are gonna cost thousands!

[mikei]

Hey bandit,

Just went to Guitar Centers' website. Can you let me know where it says that the
Neil Peart 30th Anniversary Commemorative DW Drumkit is going to cost $30,000? Where did you come up with that figure? You got an inside "scoop" on that information?
I'm just curious about that, because it sounds like you just made that up about the kit costing $30,000 to co-inside with the 30 year anniversary of Rush. I think the kit is
gonna cost more than that. They are only making 30 of them. That is what's linking this. One kit for every year of Rush. Not the cost of each kit. Please let me know. Thanks! ;-)


P.S. The cymbals ALONE are gonna cost thousands!
I talked with a manager at GC and he told me it would be "around 30K" and that he would throw in a free set of stick if I bought it!

Seriously, he told me it would cost me about 30k

[palmeris]

http://www.guitarcenter.com/peart/

30 pairs are included if you check out the parts list. Along with all the 24kt gold plated hardware.

[Class A Drummer]

wow 30 g's for his set. I went to the chuck levins website (most successful single music store in the nation at one point) and they said that his snare was 1k. i thought it would be a little more, but still 1k is pretty expensive.

[dib da drummer]

I talked with a manager at GC and he told me it would be "around 30K" and that he would throw in a free set of stick if I bought it!

Seriously, he told me it would cost me about 30k

Oh,


Ok. Cool! You talked with one of the managers. That's a good way to find out. Just
go right to the source. I didn't know you actually talked with someone there at GC. Thanks
for clerifying that. Free sticks? I hope you were kidding. You pay 30 grand for a drumkit, I would hope you'd get a little more than a pair of sticks thrown in. Anyway, Thanks alot! Peace

[palmeris]

Just came back for GC, spoke with the drum manager. Yup 30k is the tag. 10k non refundable deposit to put your name on the list, 20k on delivery.

Ok so you have the extra cash and decide to buy this set. What would you do with it?
A- Keep it in the packing boxes
B- Set it up and display it- Never play it
C- Put on Different heads and play it
D- Beat the crap out of it as is.

[finnhiggins]

I'd go for "E: Launch it into the air with a giant trebuchet just to hear dib_da_drummer's screams of agony and rage"...

[kazzman]

I'd go for "E: Launch it into the air with a giant trebuchet just to hear dib_da_drummer's screams of agony and rage"...

That'd be funny to see.

[O Baterista]

Ok so you have the extra cash and decide to buy this set. What would you do with it?
A- Keep it in the packing boxes
B- Set it up and display it- Never play it
C- Put on Different heads and play it
D- Beat the crap out of it as is.


I'm thinking C.1. Change the heads and play it and also allow select people that I really trust to play it for an hourly fee (I know I'd pay to play on that kit for a little while).

I mean honestly it is a beautiful looking set but drums are meant to be played. Especially drums that have the potential to sound as beautiful as those do.

[dawg]

isn't this set a single bass drum set? man, for 30G i'd want at least a double bass set.

[mikeybbdrummin]

isn't this set a single bass drum set? man, for 30G i'd want at least a double bass set.

Have you seen the kit? Neil is not huge user of double bass. He uses it sparingly. So the double pedal does the job just fine.

[dib da drummer]

I'd go for "E: Launch it into the air with a giant trebuchet just to hear dib_da_drummer's screams of agony and rage"...

Once again. The peanut gallery is heard from! How 'bout something inteligent to add, instead of your usual teenage examples of humor?

[dib da drummer]

That'd be funny to see.


Yea, with you and finn strapped to it!

[dib da drummer]

I'm thinking C.1. Change the heads and play it and also allow select people that I really trust to play it for an hourly fee (I know I'd pay to play on that kit for a little while).

I mean honestly it is a beautiful looking set but drums are meant to be played. Especially drums that have the potential to sound as beautiful as those do.


I couldn't of put it better myself. Oh, by the way, GREAT name there, O Baterista!

[Skitch]

I'm not saying he doesn't do stuff that other rock drummers don't do, because obviously he does far more than the average rock drummer and obviously he is creative in a way that makes a lot of musical sense. But I think Dave Weckl is a far better rock drummer than Neil Peart from what I've seen. If we could go back in time and stick Dave Weckl in Rush would the drumming have been as good? Who knows? But that's a very hypothetical question.

I didn't know that Dave Weckl was a rock drummer.


Mike

http://www.mikemccraw.com
http://www.dominoretroplate.com


http://www.youtube.com/profile?user=drummermikemccraw

[rendezvous_drummer]

WHY PAY 30,000!! Man if I had that money, I'd buy 3 kits (Yamaha Maple Custom, Yamaha Birch Custom, Yamaha Beech Custom :D) and buy a shite load of cymbals. WOAH WAIT A MINUTE! I just saw that he's throwin in a free pair of sticks....that's a damn good deal...gimme a break!

[TitanSound]

Its a collectors edition....these things sell for that much. Its all about status, people will want to be part of it

As mentioned only 30 will be made and I guess not many of them will actually be played. That is a travesty in my eyes. If you pay that amount for a kit then you should at least get some pleasure out of it. Its not as if its going to seriously de-value the kit if you play it.

[dib da drummer]

WHY PAY 30,000!! Man if I had that money, I'd buy 3 kits (Yamaha Maple Custom, Yamaha Birch Custom, Yamaha Beech Custom :D) and buy a shite load of cymbals. WOAH WAIT A MINUTE! I just saw that he's throwin in a free pair of sticks....that's a damn good deal...gimme a break!

Yea, but there's only gonna be 30 of these kits in the world. Anybody can buy those Yamahas! Not so with these comemmorative DW's! Oh, I take it that you are a Yamaha
fan, huh? I personally prefer drums that are manufactured by the companies who "exclusively" make drums and drum accessories. DW, Tama, Ludwig, Pearl, to name a few. Yamaha makes ALL kinds of equipment. ie...stereos, speakers, keyboards, and other "non" percussive stuff. Not saying that Yamahas' line of percussion is "bad", I just
prefer the companies that concentrate "just" on drums, drum accessories and percussion equipment. Peace!

[Mediocrefunkybeat]

So what's wrong with Yamaha drums again?

[dawg]

well, dib da, after you buy that 30g set,come back with a product review for us,will ya?all i can tell you is DW makes great drums, i've played a gretsch set i really liked at a drum store, but ended up buying a brand new 1993 yamaha maple custom,6 piece set, (which i still have after unloading my pearl set) and all i can say after playing many different venues with different musicians is, they've commented numerous times how good those drums sound. i love em'! and i got em' on sale for $2800 (minus cymbals.)

[NUTHA JASON]

and with that let us remember -


that many posts were deleted from this thread because guys were bashing neil.
that neil is a great guy
that he may read this thread
that he is an incredible drummer and is quite capable of pulling some surprises out of his hat if he ever felt the need to prove himself - which he does not.let's then celebrate him rather than compare him to other drummers in an unflattering or unfavourable way.

NO MORE BASHING NEIL PLEASE.

J

[gmb2112]

[QUOTE=mikeybbdrummin]Does anyone want to guess what the Rush/DW 30th anniversary commerative drum kit is going to be priced at? There is going to be only 30. Full acoustic kit and cymbals. I will guess first at $25,000.00. Next guess?[/QUO
neils drum tech told me$ 80,000 for the hole kit

[Mediocrefunkybeat]

Ah you went to the Neil Peart kit tour. That includes things like the cymbals and the electronics set up, adding a significant amount to the value. The actual shells and hardware are worth the $30,000.

[ajgdrums722]

I just want to add that "Test For Echo" is my favorite Rush song, because of Neil's playing in it. Lot's of great stuff in that song.

[timebandit]

If I had a couple of hundred G's lyin' around, i'd definately drop 30k on a NP 1 of 30 commerative kit!! that would be like , let say, in the sixty's you had bought a Buddy Rich - 1 of 30 duplicate kit. and still had it today, I'm sure it would be worth twice what you pay'd for it then.thats like the kit Tama made for MikePortnoy, for The cygnus & the seamonster show. I'm sure some one, somewhere would pay twice what thats worth. I know I would.And further more, who's to say that NP kit, with that custom finish, & brass hardware is'nt worth 30G's.DW thinks it is!

[cygnify]

I think that kit actually has gold plated hardware. He used to do brass, but for the 30th anniversary kit they plated the hardware in gold. I'm assuming the 30 commemorative kits will also be gold plated. If so, I wonder just how much gold plated hardware contributes to the $30k price tag.

[timebandit]

as of today @ noon, there's 19 kits sold, 11 left.get'em while there're hot! oh yeah, comes with cymbals.

[Synthetik]

I found a site www.kirschdrums.com (http://www.kirschdrums.com) that says he has had a lot of requests for that red tama artstar kit that Neil played. They say they have pretty much duplicated the color. So, getting a clone of the TAMA would likely cost around $3500. (minus gong drum)

I have a feeling many non-drummers (collectors) bought the anniversary kit as an investment.

[fusssion]

Only 2 reasons to purchase this kit:

1) Investment
2) Rush cover band (with A TON of money floating around!)

[Ian Ballard]

I found a site www.kirschdrums.com (http://www.kirschdrums.com) that says he has had a lot of requests for that red tama artstar kit that Neil played. They say they have pretty much duplicated the color. So, getting a clone of the TAMA would likely cost around $3500. (minus gong drum)

I have a feeling many non-drummers (collectors) bought the anniversary kit as an investment.

Not to nitpick, but Neil played a Tama Superstar during the early 80's, before he switched to Ludwig... then DW. In 1980, the Superstar was the top-end kit and there was no Artstar yet.

[DrumMasterDave]

Yah Of course! A drummer of that age and experiance is sure to have played every drum kit available. Being sponsered must be nice though. I have the yamaha maple custom, and thats an amazing kit in my standards. Plus its only 2-5 grand. With the money you save, you can buy tickets to see Rush in their next tour!

[shuffle]

Not to nitpick, but Neil played a Tama Superstar during the early 80's, before he switched to Ludwig... then DW. In 1980, the Superstar was the top-end kit and there was no Artstar yet.

He did briefly played (or at least advertised playing) an Artstar, at the end of his relationship with Tama.

[Ian Ballard]

He did briefly played (or at least advertised playing) an Artstar, at the end of his relationship with Tama.

Hmmm, I never saw nor heard of such an add. I'd like to see it.

[shuffle]

Hmmm, I never saw nor heard of such an add. I'd like to see it.

seeing is believing.

http://www.rusharchives.com/gear/neil.shtml


It is the picture on the lake. Used to have it on my wall.

Quite a few other links through google....

[timebandit]

I will have to admit that i also thought that red tama kit from the "signals" tour ( that I seen from the 3rd row) was a superstar kit, as in my avatar, but i stand corrected.To me, Artstar kit allways had those lugs that connected. Maybe it just had Artstar shells with superstar lugs? In 1986, i bought a tama superster mahogony kit, the actual "Neil Peart" model. when the kit showed up, for some reason the 15" bass mnt tom came as a floor tom, and i never did anything about it.Then like an Idiot, I sold one of the bass drums cuz I needed the money. then in 1990 i sold the whole kit to friend so i could buy my now wife, a engagement ring ( what a dumb puss ) anyway the good news is, the set still sits in his basement office, untouched 17 yrs later.

[michael drums]

I will have to admit that i also thought that red tama kit from the "signals" tour ( that I seen from the 3rd row) was a superstar kit, as in my avatar, but i stand corrected.To me, Artstar kit allways had those lugs that connected. Maybe it just had Artstar shells with superstar lugs? In 1986, i bought a tama superster mahogony kit, the actual "Neil Peart" model. when the kit showed up, for some reason the 15" bass mnt tom came as a floor tom, and i never did anything about it.Then like an Idiot, I sold one of the bass drums cuz I needed the money. then in 1990 i sold the whole kit to friend so i could buy my now wife, a engagement ring ( what a dumb puss ) anyway the good news is, the set still sits in his basement office, untouched 17 yrs later.

Wow! Great story timebandit. You're not a puss, man! You just found love(besides the drums), that's all! Nothin' wrong with that! But hearing about that set is cool! Is there any way that you can get the set back? Now THAT would be really cool! Thanks....Play on!

[timebandit]

Well, like I said the kit still sits in my friends basement office.He did recently ask me if i wanted it back for the same amount I sold it to him for. $2000. I geuss for sentimental purposes it would be nice to have back. I only had the set for 4 yrs, he's had it for 17. & for 2-g's, I can get ahelluva kit, so for my money I think I'd go new. Besides, I told him if he ever had any seriuos offers to call me befor he sells it.

[michael drums]

Well, like I said the kit still sits in my friends basement office.He did recently ask me if i wanted it back for the same amount I sold it to him for. $2000. I geuss for sentimental purposes it would be nice to have back. I only had the set for 4 yrs, he's had it for 17. & for 2-g's, I can get ahelluva kit, so for my money I think I'd go new. Besides, I told him if he ever had any seriuos offers to call me befor he sells it.

Wow, timebandit. I can understand goin' new, but I agree, that same price you sold it to him for is really fair. For the sentimental purpose alone, to me, is definitely worth it. Great kit there, man! Thanks for posting this! Cool...Play On!

[michael drums]

Hey Y'all. Anyone got the new DW R30 commemorative drumkit, yet? Or know of anyone who has? I'd love to hear how the kit is! May be too early to ask, but I'm really curious about this kit, and how it sounds. That is, of course, if anyone would play it that much to really get an accurate account of the sound quality. I guess someone will buy it to play it, but I would have one just to say I had one. Wouldn't wanna scratch it or damage it, IN ANY WAY. It's certaintly a collecters' item, to say the least. Thanks and Play On! ;-)

[fusssion]

He did briefly played (or at least advertised playing) an Artstar, at the end of his relationship with Tama.


That red kit was an Artstar prototype...........indeed, this is correct

[michael drums]

Hello! Anyone out there have a DW R30 commemerative kit? I posted 5 days ago to get a review of one, but have YET to get a response on this. Anybody care to chime in on this, please feel free. It's funny, there was SO MUCH talk and anticipation about this kit before it was available on October 30th. But there seems to be NO interest about it now. Maybe it's me making too much of it. Oh well. Thanks! Peace....Play On!

[Guinness]

That is an absolutely beautiful kit. If I was a millionare I would have been on the waiting list already. One heck of an investment as well.

[dawg]

maybe no one but neil here can afford to buy a kit...

[Synthetik]

The official R30 tour "death toll" from page 393 of "Roadshow" by Neil Peart:

257 pairs of drumsticks

one 20" cymbal

three 18" cymbals

six 16" cymbals

two china cymbals

fifteen drumheads

[michael drums]

That is an absolutely beautiful kit. If I was a millionare I would have been on the waiting list already. One heck of an investment as well.

Beautiful it is! Does it sound like it looks, though? That's what I'm tryin' to find out, if there's anyone out there who's got one. Or has, at least, played one. Maybe it's not to be played. I sure would be VERY hesitant to lay a lick on it. It may depreciate in value if it's played, huh? I don't quite have the fortune of those that wouldn't care either way. 30 grand's a pretty penny where I'm from. I'd stick with my Tama set to play, and keep this one in protective custody! Thanks Guinness and Play On!

[michael drums]

Does anybody know why no one has posted a review on the DW R30 comemmerative kit here on this NP thread yet? Is it "no-big-deal" about how this kit looks and sounds in real life? Is there no DrummerWorld member that has any knowledge of this kit from a personal perspective? Or am I just making WAY too much of this? Please, someone say something about the kit, ie...How does it look, sound, set up? Was it difficult trying to buy? Did Guitar Center perform good service in the purchase of it? Etc... I would appreciate ANY information about this new kit. Thanks...Play On! ;-)

[fusssion]

I don't know...but...

THis is supposed to be an exact replica....I highly doubt is. If I understand it right, Neil has VLT shells, does this? Plus, recently just got a GC Catalogue and the kit was the last thing on the back page and the logos on the toms doen't look right, and the "man in the star" is reversed from the Rush logo.......so.......

[IDDrummer]

Take a look at this fellow's pictures of one of the actual kits. You can see that they are VLT and the logos look correct to me. I haven't seen the GT catalogue, but it looks to me like the kits are as true a replica as you could get.

http://www.drummerworld.com/forums/showthread.php?t=20736

[mikei]

Has anyone purchased the new Rush Replay X3 DVD?

Three concerts from long ago.

Neil is a great, great drummer. Being a somewhat new drummer, I didn't really pay attention to him in the past.

I really believe that back in the 80s and early 90s he played fantastic. Noticably better than now. He also showed more emotion behind the kit back then.

Portnoy is the new Peart. However, I believe that he lacks some of the technical skills that Peart has. Peart is neater and cleaner. However, I feel Portnoy has a bit more feel or groove. And I am not bashing Portnoy. I really enjoy his playing as well.

Either way, I highly recommend the new DVD set. Great stuff.

[mikeybbdrummin]

Has anyone purchased the new Rush Replay X3 DVD?

Three concerts from long ago.

Neil is a great, great drummer. Being a somewhat new drummer, I didn't really pay attention to him in the past.

I really believe that back in the 80s and early 90s he played fantastic. Noticably better than now. He also showed more emotion behind the kit back then.

Portnoy is the new Peart. However, I believe that he lacks some of the technical skills that Peart has. Peart is neater and cleaner. However, I feel Portnoy has a bit more feel or groove. And I am not bashing Portnoy. I really enjoy his playing as well.

Either way, I highly recommend the new DVD set. Great stuff.

I have it. Its not bad for what it is. I had R30 and I have Rush in Rio. Rush in Rio is my favorite of all of them. You have to keep in find that Rush in Rio was I think in 2003 when Neil was 51 years old, compared to the early stuff being in his mid to late twenties. He started in Rush in 1975 at 23 years old. My guess is that after 30 years its hard to stay at the same physical level decade, after decade after decade.
Portnoy is not "New" though. He is great at what he does. He has odd times mastered. And when he plays he seems to do everything so effortlessly.

[Merkaba]

Neil is one of the guys who got me wanting to start in the first place. he is amazing.

[Dr.Hook]

IMO, Neil Peart is the greatest drummer of all time, both on a technical level, as well as a creative level.

Also, he has influeneced more people than any other drummer in history.

Now, I will say that he has lost some of his "perfection" over the years, and his creativity is starting to dwindle. I honestly think hes more into the writing of books, and motorcycling than Rush itself. Hell, after 30+ years somethings gotta give.

Now, lets take the drummers that the "kids" all love today, such as Travis Barker, Chris Adler Etc. When they reach the age of Neil Peart "55", I wonder how good they will be?? Because at 55, Neil Peart can still kick ass, and has forgotten more than the Barkers and such will ever know.

Neil is the Proffessor, and is the reason I wanted to become a drummer.

Subdivisions has got to be the best song to play along with, ever!!!!!!!!

[michael drums]

IMO, Neil Peart is the greatest drummer of all time, both on a technical level, as well as a creative level.

Also, he has influeneced more people than any other drummer in history.

Now, I will say that he has lost some of his "perfection" over the years, and his creativity is starting to dwindle. I honestly think hes more into the writing of books, and motorcycling than Rush itself. Hell, after 30+ years somethings gotta give.

Now, lets take the drummers that the "kids" all love today, such as Travis Barker, Chris Adler Etc. When they reach the age of Neil Peart "55", I wonder how good they will be?? Because at 55, Neil Peart can still kick ass, and has forgotten more than the Barkers and such will ever know.

Neil is the Proffessor, and is the reason I wanted to become a drummer.

Subdivisions has got to be the best song to play along with, ever!!!!!!!!

Hey Dr. Hook. How are ya? Wow. I can really appreciate your passion for Neil Peart, as I am also a HUGE fan of his. But let me put it in perspective what you say here. A little more of a realistic take on NP:

1.) No. He's not the "greatest" of all time. Neither technically or creatively. Great as he is, that would certaintly be more describing Buddy Rich.

2.)No. He hasn't influenced more than Buddy or Bonham. Though he definitely has influenced many, many drummers. Me included.

3.)No. He hasn't lost "perfection" over the years. Don't confuse adaption with ability. And his creativity has changed, not lessened. I believe his family comes first, especially after what happened to him about 10 years ago(loss of his daughter and wife in less than a year). And his music is 2nd on his list of importance. It IS his bread and butter, ya know. His drumming and his song writing. As far as "somethings gotta give"... well... He still gives 100% of himself in whatever he is involved in. And soon you'll be seeing him in the movies, also. So stay tuned...

4.)Let's not compare Neil to the drummers of today. Adler and Barker are very accomplished in what they do with their style and ability. They are different in almost every way than NP. And, by the way, not that it's a big deal, but Neil Peart is 54 yrs. old, not 55. He'll turn 55 yrs. old on Sept. 12, 2007.

5.)Yes. Neil Peart has definitely earned the title "The Professor". Perfect name for his ability at drumming and writing.

6.)Yes. Subdivisions is a fantastic song. One of my all-time-favorite Rush songs. But to say it's the best song to play along with ever...well, you may get some to disagree with you on that.

Anyway, it sounds like your a true NP fan, so that would make ME a Dr. Hook fan. Thanks for your post about NP... Play On!

[Pearl Player]

Neil really inspired me. Along with Ginger Baker, and Bohman.. LOL first time I started to think about playing this instrument was OMG.... Dave Clark LOL

I really like how Neil plays and I really enjoy his teaching. Like the DVD's I have. I alway include some neil in my practice routines.

Mike

[mikeybbdrummin]

Hey Dr. Hook. How are ya? Wow. I can really appreciate your passion for Neil Peart, as I am also a HUGE fan of his. But let me put it in prespective what you say here. A little more of a realistic take on NP:

1.) No. He's not the "greatest" of all time. Neither technically or creatively. Great as he is, that would certaintly be more describing Buddy Rich.

2.)No. He hasn't influenced more than Buddy or Bonham. Though he definitely has influenced many, many drummers. Me included.

3.)No. He hasn't lost "perfection" over the years. Don't confuse adaption with ability. And his creativity has changed, not lessened. I believe his family comes first, especially after what happened to him about 10 years ago(loss of his daughter and wife in less than a year). And his music is 2nd on his list of importance. It IS his bread and butter, ya know. His drumming and his song writing. As far as "somethings gotta give"... well... He still gives 100% of himself in whatever he is involved in. And soon you'll be seeing him in the movies, also. So stay tuned...

4.)Let's not compare Neil to the drummers of today. Adler and Barker are very accomplished in what they do with their style and ability. They are different in almost every way than NP. And, by the way, not that it's a big deal, but Neil Peart is 54 yrs. old, not 55. He'll turn 55 yrs. old on Sept. 12, 2007.

5.)Yes. Neil Peart has definitely earned the title "The Professor". Perfect name for his ability at drumming and writing.

6.)Yes. Subdivisions is a fantastic song. One of my all-time-favorite Rush songs. But to say it's the best song to play along with ever...well, you may get some to disagree with you on that.

Anyway, it sounds like your a true NP fan, so that would make ME a Dr. Hook fan. Thanks for your post about NP... Play On!

I am also a Neil fan. My 2nd biggest influence definatly. I wanted to address a couple of things that you put into "Persrective" for Dr. Hook;
The first thing he said is "IMO". In his oppinion Neil is the greatest. How can you say his oppinion is wrong? Putting in "IMO" tells me he does not expect everyone to agree w/him.
The next one is; How do you know Neil hasnt influenced more people then Buddy, or Bonham? Bonham was w/Zepp for just over a decade. Neil has been w/Rush for over three decades. You do the math.
Anyway, Its all oppinion when you get right down to it. Nothing personal.

[fusssion]

Off topic, but I don't know where else to put this....

I was answering another NP question for his snare drums and ran across this site, and wanted to share it!

http://www.andrewolson.com/Neil_Peart/neil_drumkits.htm

What I found interesting was this.....remember back for Permanent Waves and Moving Pictures when NP used Evans "Looking Glass" heads on the top and Hydraulic Blues on the bottom?! Practically unheard of today...but....

Browse the site,...it's great.....

[Pocketman]

I'm listening to The Analog Kid from Signals right now. I can't believe how great a track it is to this day. It's not one of Rush's more popular songs nor is it a real Peart fill showcase, but I think it's the best straight forward track he ever did. On this (and on all of Signals for that matter) you can really hear him "digging-in and smacking the snare.

Thoughts? Opinions?

[michael drums]

Hey Pocketman! Yea, that drum track was unique for Neil back then. And "Signals" is one of those albums that you can pick up more and more of his amazing fills and intricate time changes, each time you listen to it...EVEN to this day! I personally can't get enough of "Subdivisions" and "The Weapon". That bass foot in "The Weapon" is sick. I love how it's just constant throughout the entire song...never wavering! And "Subdivisions" is just a fantastic example of Neil Pearts' legendary perfection...Play On! ;-)

[michael drums]

Hey! Please stop taking off/removing certain threads for NO apparant reason. Why does this continue to happen? It's not fair to anyone that may want to contribute an important or inspiring post. And this thread of, Pocketmans' creation, deserves better than that! Thank You...Play On!

[Pocketman]

Hey! Please stop taking off/removing certain threads for NO apparant reason. Why does this continue to happen? It's not fair to anyone that may want to contribute an important or inspiring post. And this thread of, Pocketmans' creation, deserves better than that! Thank You...Play On!

Thanks MD. I am perfectly aware that Neil has probably more threads about him than any other drummer. My point in beginning this thread was to point out that I find Neil's straight ahead playing as inspirational as his technical, odd time, fill free-for-all's.

[michael drums]

Thanks MD. I am perfectly aware that Neil has probably more threads about him than any other drummer. My point in beginning this thread was to point out that I find Neil's straight ahead playing as inspirational as his technical, odd time, fill free-for-all's.

You're welcome, Pocketman! I just feel that whoever keeps stopping certain threads is biased to who or what "they" like. It's a strange phenomenon that continues to happen to the detriment of interesting and inspiring threads/posts...Play On!

[LinearDrummer]

I'm listening to The Analog Kid from Signals right now. I can't believe how great a track it is to this day. It's not one of Rush's more popular songs nor is it a real Peart fill showcase, but I think it's the best straight forward track he ever did. On this (and on all of Signals for that matter) you can really hear him "digging-in and smacking the snare.

Thoughts? Opinions?

I actually think thats some of Alex's best guitar work...some of my friends who aren't Rush fans even like that one....

Signals was a real transition album and I'm kinda torn between liking it...some songs have cool riffs in them but some parts just don't work...like on Digital Man the shuffle groove and the little reggae riff and solo breakdown are sweet but the hook is horrible and the keys don't fit....

IMO - Chemistry is the best cut on there .....transitions are smooth and all the grooves work well together....and I like the lyrics too....

I actually dig the synth stuff (which alot of true fans don't) its just Signals sounded like an experiment to me....much more into Power Windows and Hold Your Fire....better song structure and balance between keys and guitar..

Good point about the snare...he's really crackin it....

[Anduin]

Hmm. Looks like nobody's posted Neil on Rick Mercer's Monday Report yet. For those who don't know, Mercer is a well-known Canadian political satirist. He had Neil give him a drum lesson a couple of months ago.

Check it out under "Week of November 7, 2006" half way down this page:

http://www.cbc.ca/mercerreport/backissues.php

[Class A Drummer]

Oh yeah i saw this a while ago on youtube. Its pretty cool lol.

[Green and Mean]

Neil is the drummer who has inpired me mostly. I still remember when I listened La VIlla Strangiato first time, and after that "invented:D" playing 16th and 32th on hi-hat. To some people: he is definetly not one of the best techniqual players. But in my eyes, he has the best drum solos. Anatomy of drumsolo! First time when I saw it on youtube, I couldn't belive my eyes! He makes it so logical and easy to understand, some of my friends who doesn't know nothing about music, love it. I soon start to learn some of Rush songs. Amazing band, theire work, creativity. Awesome drummer!

[palmeris]

For those Peart fans and rush fans, check out the new single at their web site http://www.rush.com/

Neil incorporated some nice double bass work in this song as well as some sweet ride work. Otherwise it seems like a pretty laid back song for him, but it flows with what the song calls for in my opinion.

[palmeris]

http://www.neilpeart.net/news/index.html

Well I am STOKED. new material, new tour that I have front row tickets for in WPB the second show of the tour, and can not wait to see and hear the new kit. AND the rest of the band!

[druid]

What does anyone think of Snakes and Arrows...?

[michael drums]

What does anyone think of Snakes and Arrows...?

Well...it has A LOT more acoustic guitar in it that I would have expected, but I like the fact that they stayed away from the keyboards, for the most part. The muscianship is OUTSTANDING, as usual, with my favorite songs being...The Main Monkey Business, Malignant Narcissisim, The Way The Wind Blows, The Larger Bowl, Good News First and, We Hold On.

But the entire recording is WELL worth listening to, and have the MVI DVD on order, which comes out on June 5th! And the show @ Nissan Pavillion on June 23rd will be the "icing on the cake"...Play On! ;-)

Oh.... And as far as Neils' playing on S & A, well...the guy just drops your jaw!! STILL...after 32 years on vinyl! The Professor...indeed!

[somtawyer]

Hello Pocketman,
In reply to your thoughts on Analog Kid , and Signals in general, I do agree. This is my first post here , and while I am not a drummer , I have been an airdrummer for nearly 27 years ( boy , am I tired ! ). I do tend to miss the more 'heavy' days of Rush , but , with maturity comes increased wisdom and scope , which is what has been on display over the last decade or so. Thinking of "pounding" the snare makes me want to go watch "The Enemy Within" from the p/g Tour video.
Anyhow , hope you and everyone else can appreciate my comments. GTG - my absolute favourite just came on my playlist - Marathon.
Best wishes from Montreal.

[sandman]

This man has had a great influence upon my life. He was the one who I saw the best, in my opinion, a drummer to shake the ages. And that he did, he has overcame so much in his life and stuck true to his one love...Drumming, so no doubt that he is a true legend but though when he passes on no one will be able to reconcile the greatness that he had put into drumming.

Neil Peart for life!

[NUTHA JASON]

i have just finished watching the whole of anatomy of a drum solo.

i liked it

but there is this one little moment which i have repeat watched at least 20 times. its on disc 2 in the tom sawyer bonus section at 2:33 and the next 10 seconds say everything about what a serious powerhouse of a drummer neil is. his fills are precise and creative and just astounding. that stuf following 2:33 is so very inspiring that i'm going to get off this computer right now and go and play dr

[fusssion]

i have just finished watching the whole of anatomy of a drum solo.

i liked it

but there is this one little moment which i have repeat watched at least 20 times. its on disc 2 in the tom sawyer bonus section at 2:33 and the next 10 seconds say everything about what a serious powerhouse of a drummer neil is. his fills are precise and creative and just astounding. that stuf following 2:33 is so very inspiring that i'm going to get off this computer right now and go and play dr

Can you show us a clip Jason?

[44Ronin]

The most influential rock drummer? No way , not even close in fact.

Yes he is a premier prog drummer. What is neil peart? He is neil peart of course! ....the guy who plays in rush.

Who is ringo starr? Hmm big part of the band that changed the quintessential rock and roll sound into guitar , bass and drum format. Probably inspired countless people to play the drums, and of course - no one swings quarters like Ringo!

[NUTHA JASON]

i think that's a very old debate ronin. neil is ONE OF the most influencial rock drummers... a whole generation or maybe a few generations of drummers have become drummers because of him. same with ringo and bonzo and probably joey and travis.

The most influential rock drummer? No way , not even close in fact.

you're entitled to your opinion of course but i think the 'not even close' bit is a bridge too far.

j

ps: i cannot fussion as it would infringe copyright. i suggest buying the DVD. you will not be disappointed.

[michael drums]

The most influential rock drummer? No way , not even close in fact.

Yes he is a premier prog drummer. What is neil peart? He is neil peart of course! ....the guy who plays in rush.

Who is ringo starr? Hmm big part of the band that changed the quintessential rock and roll sound into guitar , bass and drum format. Probably inspired countless people to play the drums, and of course - no one swings quarters like Ringo!

Well, Ronin...I think A LOT more fans of "the drum" have air-drummed to Neil Peart and Rush than to the Beatles!! WITHOUT A DOUBT!!

I agree that Ringo has been a huge influence to "music" fans, but to "drumming" fans...Neil Peart is MUCH MORE influential in that department!! NOT EVEN CLOSE!!

He's a DRUM GOD, Ronin!

Ringo has NOT reached that plateau, and I couldn't agree more...Play On! ;-)

[tot_fnky]

Great drummer. The godfather of prog rock, in one of the best bands of the style: RUSH.
This is from where Mike Portnoy stole everything hahaha!!!

[palmeris]

Has anyone heard the Main Monkey Business drums only matsered recording that is Neils Web site yet? It is pretty awesome, some nice technique on an intricate beat, very cool of him to put it up, It's a long recording. Be great if Drummerworld could put up a snipet of that!

[franklinj]

Cant wait for Saturday...I get to see the man in action! My first Rush show!

[michael drums]

Has anyone heard the Main Monkey Business drums only matsered recording that is Neils Web site yet? It is pretty awesome, some nice technique on an intricate beat, very cool of him to put it up, It's a long recording. Be great if Drummerworld could put up a snipet of that!

Oh...THANKS, palmeris!! Gonna go there, right after this, and check it out! ;-)

And...YES! It would be great if DW does that! :-)


How 'bout it, Bernard? ;-)


Thanks again, palmeris...Play On! ;-)

[michael drums]

Cant wait for Saturday...I get to see the man in action! My first Rush show!

Excellent, franklinj!! You WON'T be dissapointed!!


I've seen him 22 times since 1982!! It'll be 23 on 23(a week from this Saturday)...Play On!


;-)

[palmeris]

WOW what a show! From the front row!!!!!! So good. A complete new solo. I am still buzzing MAN that was SOOOOOOO good. The new kit looks and sounds killer. I will post a picture once I get it out of my phone

He had a snare problem about a half hour into the show. Gump had it changed out in 30 seconds, amazing. He also had some type of wierd looking prototype cymbal, looks like it has jingels rivited to it.

About 6 new tunes played. 3 hour show with a 20 minute break between sets. Man my head still hurts, but it's a happy hurt.

Oh did I say WOW!!!!!!!! my 14th tour and the first from the front row. I

[michael drums]

Wow, palmeris!! Great review!! FRONT ROW?? Excellent!!

Hope to give a review next week...Going to the Bristow, Va. show on the 23rd! ;-)


Can't wait...Play On! ;-)

[franklinj]

Sorry if this has been asked before, but how the hell does he tune his higher toms to get that sound? I cant even really explain the sound, it just sounds really, really good. The toms im talking about are the higher ones to the left of the traditional "main" rack tom.

[IDDrummer]

Sorry if this has been asked before, but how the hell does he tune his higher toms to get that sound? I cant even really explain the sound, it just sounds really, really good. The toms im talking about are the higher ones to the left of the traditional "main" rack tom.

They are cranked EXTREMELY tight. His tech says in general, the bottom heads on his toms are a bit looser than the top, but I've gotten my smaller toms to sound just like his by tuning very high with top and bottom heads matched in pitch. I mean so tight I almost can't turn the key anymore, like a marching snare...

[franklinj]

They are cranked EXTREMELY tight. His tech says in general, the bottom heads on his toms are a bit looser than the top, but I've gotten my smaller toms to sound just like his by tuning very high with top and bottom heads matched in pitch. I mean so tight I almost can't turn the key anymore, like a marching snare...

Kinda weird, but kinda cool...ill def have to check that out. Thanks.

[xush]

snippet of Neil's new '07 solo:

http://youtube.com/watch?v=2LDEOeJsi94

[michael drums]

snippet of Neil's new '07 solo:

http://youtube.com/watch?v=2LDEOeJsi94

Oh, THANKS xush!! Nice!!

Though...it cuts out and stops at 48 seconds, and it says that it's 5:15 long?? That seems kinda strange, huh?

Anyway...Thanks for that...Play On! ;-)

[palmeris]

Franklinj

So what are your thoughts on your first Rush show and watching the man, the machine, the drum god himself?

[spartacus1989]

Neil Peart is incredible for weird time signatures and off beat drumming :D!!

Can't wait to see him live :D

[franklinj]

Franklinj

So what are your thoughts on your first Rush show and watching the man, the machine, the drum god himself?

Do you even need to ask? The mans a genius.

[harley_g]

Hello everyone...thought I might bring up a thread that hasn't had a post for a while. I actually came on here quite a lot a while back but got busy so when I came back I couldn't get into my account...anyway. I come because something has been bothering me.

I have seen many a video of Peart. I wasn't blown away or anything, but I didn't mind him. But a visit to the good old YouTube and another watch of his solos and such, and I quickly became confused. Looking at the amount of people proclaiming that drums were invented for Peart, and that without a doubt he is the greatest drummer ever to live, I thought I was taking crazy pills. I was ALMOST drawn to start an argument and become like one of those losers who sit on YouTube and drone on and on about why Derek Roddy is so much better than Joey Jordison (they're both tasteless in my opinion but that's beside the point).

Every single solo I've seen of Peart immediately reminds me of solo's I would come up with when I'd been playing for 6 months to a year. Four on the floor, semiquavers on the snare with some triplets, and some tom fills. I'm not here to say I could school Peart in a battle or that he's crap or anything like that, I've just honestly been baffled by why people continue to be so amazed by stuff that many beginners come up with for their first solo. When I was in a Mike Mangini clinic he actually said that the whole four on the floor thing is a beginnerish thing (in the sense that it's what drummers start out with, not that it's bad or anything).

If I was playing stuff so similar to Peart after such a short while of playing and only being able to play a Go-Go's greatest hits album, how is he so good?

After roughly 8 minutes of soloing I saw a guy who looked uncomfortable and frankly unhappy (beside the point but it doesn't hurt to show some emotion...) and who could come up with nothing but basically what would usually be a rock fill played over and over again. It bored me to tears, not because it was simple (some of the best sounding licks I've heard are simple) but because it just seemed so repetitive and uncreative.

There's hardly any dynamic range in his soloing. For the best drummer in the world he sure doesn't show any contrast. I saw an old post on here saying how he leaves heaps of space and such in his solos...I could here no space except the space between his semiquavers and the time it took him to jump around to his electronic drum kit. So often in drumming less is more...

Which leads me to the next thing. He has such a big kit, but I just see him use it so uncreatively, it's honestly uninspiring. There are so many drummers out there who create just this amazing contrast and inventive grooves and patterns on a 4-piece, meanwhile Peart continues his long semiquaver tom roll. Bill Stewart, Brian Blade, JoJo Mayer (maybe a 5-piece but close enough), it goes on. While I'm at it I might offend any others who weren't already offended :P...I haven't been so bored or confused since I saw Mike Portnoy play his monster kit.

I've tried to take the high road here folks because I've thought long and hard and I've come up with nothing except that the people who like him can only appreciate big drum kits and loud playing. I know this can't be true so I MUST be missing something. I just don't get it.

Enlighten me!

Harley

[crumbdrums]

After roughly 8 minutes of soloing I saw a guy who looked uncomfortable and frankly unhappy


Harley

I agree completely. His solo's are unimpressive and painful to watch. But he is an amazing drummer. Forget the solos; go listen to La Villa Strangiato off of Hemispheres if you want to hear truly superb drumming.

[stasz]

Hello everyone...thought I might bring up a thread that hasn't had a post for a while. I actually came on here quite a lot a while back but got busy so when I came back I couldn't get into my account...anyway. I come because something has been bothering me.

I have seen many a video of Peart. I wasn't blown away or anything, but I didn't mind him. But a visit to the good old YouTube and another watch of his solos and such, and I quickly became confused. Looking at the amount of people proclaiming that drums were invented for Peart, and that without a doubt he is the greatest drummer ever to live, I thought I was taking crazy pills. I was ALMOST drawn to start an argument and become like one of those losers who sit on YouTube and drone on and on about why Derek Roddy is so much better than Joey Jordison (they're both tasteless in my opinion but that's beside the point).

Every single solo I've seen of Peart immediately reminds me of solo's I would come up with when I'd been playing for 6 months to a year. Four on the floor, semiquavers on the snare with some triplets, and some tom fills. I'm not here to say I could school Peart in a battle or that he's crap or anything like that, I've just honestly been baffled by why people continue to be so amazed by stuff that many beginners come up with for their first solo. When I was in a Mike Mangini clinic he actually said that the whole four on the floor thing is a beginnerish thing (in the sense that it's what drummers start out with, not that it's bad or anything).

If I was playing stuff so similar to Peart after such a short while of playing and only being able to play a Go-Go's greatest hits album, how is he so good?

After roughly 8 minutes of soloing I saw a guy who looked uncomfortable and frankly unhappy (beside the point but it doesn't hurt to show some emotion...) and who could come up with nothing but basically what would usually be a rock fill played over and over again. It bored me to tears, not because it was simple (some of the best sounding licks I've heard are simple) but because it just seemed so repetitive and uncreative.

There's hardly any dynamic range in his soloing. For the best drummer in the world he sure doesn't show any contrast. I saw an old post on here saying how he leaves heaps of space and such in his solos...I could here no space except the space between his semiquavers and the time it took him to jump around to his electronic drum kit. So often in drumming less is more...

Which leads me to the next thing. He has such a big kit, but I just see him use it so uncreatively, it's honestly uninspiring. There are so many drummers out there who create just this amazing contrast and inventive grooves and patterns on a 4-piece, meanwhile Peart continues his long semiquaver tom roll. Bill Stewart, Brian Blade, JoJo Mayer (maybe a 5-piece but close enough), it goes on. While I'm at it I might offend any others who weren't already offended :P...I haven't been so bored or confused since I saw Mike Portnoy play his monster kit.

I've tried to take the high road here folks because I've thought long and hard and I've come up with nothing except that the people who like him can only appreciate big drum kits and loud playing. I know this can't be true so I MUST be missing something. I just don't get it.

Enlighten me!

Harley

You defnitely have a point here. I remember seeing a couple jazz pieces he was playing with a big band, and I was very unimpressed. The same characteristic fills of his playing, and his swing rythym was pretty uncreative (I don't even play jazz that much and I could tell it was bad. It was just boring).

I just hope people don't start flaming you for disregarding his glory or something...

crumbdrums is right, too, though, I love the drumming on that track, just awesome.

[CJH2112]

I don't get people who need to be enlightened or have Neil Peart's greatness explained to them but I will bite:

Neil is not the greatest drummer in the world and HE would be the first to admit that. I don't believe there is such a thing but Neil is among the greatest drummers in history. If you look over his career and listened to his drumming you would hear his genius. I don't think playing drum solos defines ones '' greatness'' but Neil is one of the greatest soloist in the history of our instrument that is a fact. I can't breakdown to you any specifics harly_g on what makes Neil great or why you don't get his celebrity and why he is touted as one of the greats. You are entitled to your opinion and I am not flaming you. For me and many others, Neil is a major drumming influence and one of the best.

[harley_g]

Thanks for those who've replied so far. And like youenjoy said his swing capabilities are mediocre at best (what is with that trigger big band finish at the end of his solo's?)

I will get a hold of La Villa Strangiato and see what he has to offer. But while we're on the topic of his playing with the rest of rush, I've seen videos of that too and I also just found his grooves to be boring (once again not to be mistaken with simplicity).

Neil is not the greatest drummer in the world and HE would be the first to admit that. I don't believe there is such a thing but Neil is among the greatest drummers in history.

I never said he was or that even such a tag should exist. "The greatest drummer in the world" is just such a pathetic title, it really doesn't mean anything to me when someone throws it on a drummer. Has anyone heard every drummer in the world? No. Then there's the sheer vagueness of it, and the fact that so much of why a drummer is good or bad is due to taste or opinion. And I can't see why Neil is among the greatest (once again bad title), and this why I came here because Drummerworld is obviously the best place.

As for the rest of CJh2112's comments, I told you everything I thought and WHY I thought it, so to just see these huge statements like "Neil is one of the greatest soloists in the history of our instrument and that is a fact" means absolutely nothing. First off how could it be a fact? If we're gonna talk facts here, why not mention Gene Krupa. He made the drums a solo instrument; before him no one had heard of a drum solo. That's a fact. After going to such lengths to explain why he's a boring soloist, how could I believe that he's one the best with a statement like that? You didn't even give one reason. If you can't break down why he's so good then that's alright for you but I'm really trying to get some real answers here. But thanks for your reply :)

I'm not won over yet! :P

[King Of Drums]

Honestly I think he's a good drummer. He can play in nearly all styles, I admit not always convincingly but he's still a great drummer. He plays a bit too busy imo but it suits the music of rush perfectly. The rhythm section of that band is tight. I couldn't imagine many other drummers that would fit the music like him. I can always identify a rush song by his drumming. He has very characteristic fills, and unique sounding toms.

If you think about his influence too... Do you know how many great drummers may have never started if it weren't for him? He inspired a whole new generation of drummers. There is a reason he is one of the most famous drummers to ever live. Overall I think he's a great drummer, highly overrated but hey a lot of worse drummers are too... I've never met him but I've seen a few interviews with him. Definitely not a stereotypical "rock star" at all.

[stasz]

Definitely not a stereotypical "rock star" at all.

This is most definitely true-- name another rock lyricist of the last century who was inspired by the writing of Ayn Rand.

YEM

[harley_g]

I listened to La Villa Strangiato and it's not a bad song. It has some alright grooves but honestly nothing special to me...plus the parts where he plays the groove on the toms to me sounds weak and doesn't back the guitar part in my opinion.

As for his influence he sure does have a lot, I guess I just can't really see why.

Overall I think he's a great drummer, highly overrated but hey a lot of worse drummers are too...

I think this just must be it, he's overrated by so many people. He's competent I'll give him that but I just don't hear anything special in his playing. Sorry! :P

[graham rogers]

xanadau has a beautiful drum part as does jacob's ladder....
i think that if he is over rated it is probably because he has such an imposing personality rather than anything to do with his drumming.
i can see why some people might find him annoying.

[crumbdrums]

This is most definitely true-- name another rock lyricist of the last century who was inspired by the writing of Ayn Rand.

YEM

Neil is a fantastic drummer, but I really must say, I don't care for his lyrics. I personally think they're pretentious and often sound stilted.

[stasz]

Neil is a fantastic drummer, but I really must say, I don't care for his lyrics. I personally think they're pretentious and often sound stilted.

I know better lyrics also... Being inspired by Ayn rand doesn't make you a good writer, it's just that I don't know another guy in a rock band who reads Ayn Rand.

[LethalWolfe]

Harley_g,

Here are a couple of reasons I admire, and enjoy, Neil Peart's drumming. To start with, it touches in me a place where good music (a subjective term I know) is supposed to touch you. Many of Rush's songs communicate to me on an emotional level like very few pieces of music do. I started listening to Rush before I knew who Rush was let alone who Neil Peart was. I fell it love w/it because I thought it was great, not because I had people telling me I'm supposed to think it's great. I think Neil, and Rush over all, has a very good balance between emotional and technical playing. As a whole it's technical enough to make you go, "wow", emotional enough to keep it from being "cold", and, most importantly, they play to serve the song.

I like Neil's solos (The Rhythm Method is still the best incarnation, IMO) because it feels like there is cohesive thread running thru the whole solo. A point, like he is trying to communicate something, tell a story, during his solo. If the story had a name I think it would be "A Brief History of Drumming in around 9 minutes." ;) Many of the other drum solos I've listened to feel hollow (like a visually stunning movie w/a lackluster plot). Neil's goal when building his drum solo was to make an homage, basically, to drumming. Parts of his solo are inspired by his many bicycle trips in Africa, his own version of "The Drum also Waltzes" is a tribute to Max Roach, and the swing section at the end is for the drummers he grew up listening to, like Buddy Rich. I think that personalization is what gives his solo the emotional undertone many others lack.

And about Neil's expression, that's just his "work face." Jordan stuck out his tongue, Namath wore a fur coat, Neil looks intense (which only helps cement "The Professor" as an appropriate nick name for him).


Lethal

[mikeybbdrummin]

I think the problem is w/age in most cases. Im 38, been playing for 20 years and Neil was HUGE in the 80's. He is my second biggest influence. First being Gregg Bissonette and third being Alex Van Halen. All guys big in the 80's. I said Influence. Not "Greatest ever" "Best to walk the Earth". Just who got me excited about playing. Now drummers are so advanced; Donati, Lang, Minimen, Greb, Jarzombek and the like. The more complicated the more people are impressed.
So as great a drummer Neil is for the band and what he has contributed to drums he is not at their level of playing. Gregg as well. Gregg is respected as a guy that can play just about anything. But basically (for the most part) its what is popular when you are growing up playing. And if Neil wasn't who you grew up listening to then you just dont get it.

[Mikecore]

How many drummer have a growth phase named after them?




(crickets chirping)


When we start hearing about "The ubiquitous Joey Jordison phase" , then we can raise questions about Neil's relevance to drumming.

[Dunnett]

I don't think can really address your question without examining your operating paradigm, meaning, if you don't "get" Peart, if you are not impressed with his solos etc, then please provide an example of who DOES meet your criteria.

[Jason Dorn]

Ok I have to chime in here. Peart is my favorite drummer this is true is he the most talented drummer in the world no is he the most glamourous no. But you know what neil does have that alot of technically better drummers don't ? Neil Peart has an understanding of what music fans not just other drummers will be able to relate to.

I have seen many "technically better" drummers perform solos that as a drummer blew my mind to look around in the crowd and see alot of people looking lost and start talking among themselves and lose interest in the solo go to the bathroom what not.

At a rush show the solo is a mesmerizing part of the show that leaves people amazed and interested. This is because he uses a simplicity that the music fan can relate to and builds around harmony melody and theme.

Do people who arent drummers see a Dave Weckl solo and go home saying omg did you see him do that triple flamadiddle inverted ratamacaca poo poo. No you dont and thats because thats lost on the average listener. They sure do remember the mallet cat the cowbell fills the big band break see it is able to be related to in a musical context.

Thats why so many other drummers with chops out the roof play clubs and smaller venues Because they arent as accesible they will draw the drummers and musicians out but for the most part it doesent have that widespread musical appeal.

So is Neil Peart the greatest soloist ever certainly not. But if you ask a rock fan who has seen Rush along with many other bands chances are they are going to be very impressed with Peart and remember him as an awesome drummer.

See thats why he has become such a big name people remember him because they can relate musically to what hes doing. I cant really think of another band that has had the sucsess that Rush has that when you mention the band the average music fan says oh yeah they have that insane drummer.

See thats what Peart does he transcends drumming he is an entertainer.

[WarrenM]

What I really respect most about Peart is his attention to the craft. Watching 'A Work In Progress' and 'Anatomy of a Drum Solo", you really get a sense of how much he cares about drumming - it's history and it's applications. He's really technically minded but still realizes that it has to sound good to the crowd and grab them.

Neil is my drumming hero. Heh.

[IDDrummer]

Very well put, Jason. I just saw Rush Friday night at the White River Amphitheater, and it was a great show! We've all heard the joke about the drum solo being "Bathroom-break time." Well, I can tell you that people were as enthusiastic about Peart's solo as any other part of the show. He got huge cheers from the crowd, and people watched the whole thing attentively. The place was packed, despite the rain, and it was a very fun crowd - everybody happy and energetic.

Frankly, I can appreciate the technicality of many great drummers' solos, but I truly do not enjoy most of them. In that way, I think I'm more like a non-drumming listener. But I enjoy Peart's solo at Rush shows. It's interesting, it moves, it is a true composition. Most technically complicated? Nah. Most fun for the general listener? Yeah, I believe so. At least that's what I've seen at all the Rush shows I've attended over the years.

If you don't get it, that's fine. There are certainly enough of us who do.

[Zumba_Zumba]

I'm glad this discussion is going on. It gives me a chance to think of why I like Neil as a drummer so much. The point about the era and influences is great. I first listened to Joey Kramer and then Nicko. Then came Neil with his huge set up and "multi-percussive" approach to rock music. I have since moved on to Dennis Chambers and Lang.

Neil has applied new and exciting ways to play multiple parts to progressive rock anthems. Check out Xanadu, The Trees, Mystic Rhythms, Territories, Scars...these songs span decades and really show the creativity of Neil. People have to remember: Neil invented these parts. Anyone can sit there and copy it and say, "big deal". But try to invent something like what he has.

He really got me excited to play drums. I remember a Test for Echo show in Detroit with a sold out crowd clapping along to his electronic part leading to the "Scars" section. Afterward, the standing ovation was huge and minutes long. Great moment in my life.

He has influenced many people with more reasons than newer drummers may ever know. Discovery is a wonderful thing.

[WarrenM]

Anyone can sit there and copy it and say, "big deal". But try to invent something like what he has.
I think that hits the nail on the head. It's not the difficulty of playing the parts, it's the creation and writing of them. The innovative nature of it. That's what it takes to be inspiring, in my book, not simply speed of playing or difficulty of material.

[mikeybbdrummin]

. Anyone can sit there and copy it and say, "big deal". But try to invent something like what he has.


PLEASE READ IN FULL!
Absolutely true. And very over looked. I have thought this about Neil when people rag on him. People like to rag on him for what he CAN'T play that others can. So he may be stiff when he plays jazz. He tries. Or is not an independence wizard like, Lang, Bozzio, or Donati. He's not trying to be. Or trying to be Weckle, Colaiuta or Chambers. Thats like not liking a baseball catcher cause he cant pitch like the pitcher. News flash; He's not a pitcher he's a catcher. So WHY does Neil have to play like everyone else? And for Harley G; Listen to some RUSH cd's and dont Judge by a solo. That goes for Portnoy as well. Portnoy is one of the odd time masters.
One thing I know is, inventing a part that sticks is whats important. Think about this carefully;If any drummer walks into a drum shop and takes ONE, not two but One stick and plays the intro to "YYZ" with the bell of ONE cymbal not a whole drum kit, but one cymbal, EVERYONE will know EXACTLY what it is. No other drummer has ever done that. End of Story!

[ZildjianMan1023]

neil peart is one of my greatest influences.. nuff said


Dom

[Zumba_Zumba]

Absolutely true. And very over looked. I have thought this about Neil when people rag on him. People like to rag on him for what he CAN'T play that others can. So he may be stiff when he plays jazz. He tries. Or is not an independence wizard like, Lang, Bozzio, or Donati. He's not trying to be. Or trying to be Weckle, Colaiuta or Chambers. Thats like not liking a baseball catcher cause he cant pitch like the pitcher. News flash; He's not a pitcher he's a catcher. So WHY does Neil have to play like everyone else? And for Harley G; Listen to some RUSH cd's and dont Judge by a solo. That goes for Portnoy as well. Portnoy is one of the odd time masters.
One thing I know is, inventing a part that sticks is whats important. Think about this carefully;If any drummer walks into a drum shop and takes ONE, not two but One stick and plays the intro to "YYZ" with the bell of ONE cymbal not a whole drum kit, but one cymbal, EVERYONE will know EXACTLY what it is. No other drummer has ever done that. End of Story!


I agree, he has not taken the interdependence to the level of Lang, Donati and Bozzio, but listen to some parts on the Hold Your Fire album (Tai Shan?) and Territories and Mystic Rhythms. His latest album actually has a song that is a remnant of that type of playing (drums only on his site if interested). When I read some posts that bash him I wonder if these people are/were listening to the same person I am/was. Neil was certainly more aggressive and very innovative back in the day. Later albums are not so special but their latest album reminds me of Counterparts.

[mikeybbdrummin]

I agree, he has not taken the interdependence to the level of Lang, Donati and Bozzio, but listen to some parts on the Hold Your Fire album (Tai Shan?) and Territories and Mystic Rhythms. His latest album actually has a song that is a remnant of that type of playing (drums only on his site if interested). When I read some posts that bash him I wonder if these people are/were listening to the same person I am/was. Neil was certainly more aggressive and very innovative back in the day. Later albums are not so special but their latest album reminds me of Counterparts.

I think its an age thing, and knowing what makes a good drummer. Take a guy Like Keith Carlock and put him next to Virgil. Totaly different drummers. But would you (not you in particular) say Keith is not impressive? Doubtfull. Cause Neil is not doing "Multi Pedal Orchestration" does not not make him a bad drummer. Just as many if not more drummers have wanted to "Be" Neil then drummers have wanted to be Lang or Donati. To me Neil makes drummers want to be better drummers. While Lang, Donati Minnimen and the like(which I respect) make drummers want to be showoffs. Which takes away from being a team player.

[drdrmmr]

peart is one of the the most creative drummers and he has absolutely precious playing. It would be better if he shows some smile :)

[Eye of the Beholder]

I like his drumming but i think his fills are too predictable

[mikei]

Here is a great solo. Enjoy

http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=a27_1187478156

[WarrenM]

Der Trommler is amazing. I can't see how anyone could watch that and say anything bad about the man's playing. :)

[ManCannon]

I don't want to ruffle anybody's feathers here but I always found Peart to be somewhat wooden and lacking in feel. Sure, he's technically great and creative but I just don't think he has much feel. Of course Rush/Peart fans think this is blasphemy...

I'll come right out and say it:

Peart is influential and really good, but his lack of feel knocks him considerable down on the list of greatest drummers ever.

[WarrenM]

Of course Rush/Peart fans think this is blasphemy...
Well, as you may or may not be aware, people often have differing opinions. You're entitled to yours but it doesn't make theirs wrong by extension.

[Drummer30]

Hello everyone...thought I might bring up a thread that hasn't had a post for a while. I actually came on here quite a lot a while back but got busy so when I came back I couldn't get into my account...anyway. I come because something has been bothering me.

I have seen many a video of Peart. I wasn't blown away or anything, but I didn't mind him. But a visit to the good old YouTube and another watch of his solos and such, and I quickly became confused. Looking at the amount of people proclaiming that drums were invented for Peart, and that without a doubt he is the greatest drummer ever to live, I thought I was taking crazy pills. I was ALMOST drawn to start an argument and become like one of those losers who sit on YouTube and drone on and on about why Derek Roddy is so much better than Joey Jordison (they're both tasteless in my opinion but that's beside the point).

Every single solo I've seen of Peart immediately reminds me of solo's I would come up with when I'd been playing for 6 months to a year. Four on the floor, semiquavers on the snare with some triplets, and some tom fills. I'm not here to say I could school Peart in a battle or that he's crap or anything like that, I've just honestly been baffled by why people continue to be so amazed by stuff that many beginners come up with for their first solo. When I was in a Mike Mangini clinic he actually said that the whole four on the floor thing is a beginnerish thing (in the sense that it's what drummers start out with, not that it's bad or anything).

If I was playing stuff so similar to Peart after such a short while of playing and only being able to play a Go-Go's greatest hits album, how is he so good?

After roughly 8 minutes of soloing I saw a guy who looked uncomfortable and frankly unhappy (beside the point but it doesn't hurt to show some emotion...) and who could come up with nothing but basically what would usually be a rock fill played over and over again. It bored me to tears, not because it was simple (some of the best sounding licks I've heard are simple) but because it just seemed so repetitive and uncreative.

There's hardly any dynamic range in his soloing. For the best drummer in the world he sure doesn't show any contrast. I saw an old post on here saying how he leaves heaps of space and such in his solos...I could here no space except the space between his semiquavers and the time it took him to jump around to his electronic drum kit. So often in drumming less is more...

Which leads me to the next thing. He has such a big kit, but I just see him use it so uncreatively, it's honestly uninspiring. There are so many drummers out there who create just this amazing contrast and inventive grooves and patterns on a 4-piece, meanwhile Peart continues his long semiquaver tom roll. Bill Stewart, Brian Blade, JoJo Mayer (maybe a 5-piece but close enough), it goes on. While I'm at it I might offend any others who weren't already offended :P...I haven't been so bored or confused since I saw Mike Portnoy play his monster kit.

I've tried to take the high road here folks because I've thought long and hard and I've come up with nothing except that the people who like him can only appreciate big drum kits and loud playing. I know this can't be true so I MUST be missing something. I just don't get it.

Enlighten me!

Harley

Well I'd say that you need to look a little closer then my friend because most of the time not just one thing is going on at once. Like when he's playing the waltz section, have you actually tried to do that without a little practice. Not very easy from my experience. Also, if you are so educated then you would have found a full coverage of his Anatomy of a Drum Solo DVD. No? In fact just watch what the snipits we have here on DW, and see for yourself. Hopefully you will begin to see the clearer picture as to how his solo was meant to be, a tribute to drumming in general and his progression through that world.

It also confuses me when you compare him to people such as Jojo and Brian Blade. Last I checked they don't even play his style of music. I tend to believe that your taste in music has biased this opinion. As for the large kit thing too, listen to his new song Malignant Narcissism, that was played on a 5 piece. No long tom rolls, none of his "untasteful" use of so many drums, just one solid instrumental track.

Also, remember that a solo isn't the image of a drummers talent. If thats all you listen to then you really need to take a step back and do some more research because you've missed some pretty good stuff (ex. Mike Portnoy, I agree the solos are poor but the tracks he produces are much better).

Hope you're enlightened.

[WhereDoEaglesDare?]

Oh, THANKS xush!! Nice!!

Though...it cuts out and stops at 48 seconds, and it says that it's 5:15 long?? That seems kinda strange, huh?

Anyway...Thanks for that...Play On! ;-)

Ok I have to chime in here. Peart is my favorite drummer this is true is he the most talented drummer in the world no is he the most glamourous no. But you know what neil does have that alot of technically better drummers don't ? Neil Peart has an understanding of what music fans not just other drummers will be able to relate to.

I have seen many "technically better" drummers perform solos that as a drummer blew my mind to look around in the crowd and see alot of people looking lost and start talking among themselves and lose interest in the solo go to the bathroom what not.

At a rush show the solo is a mesmerizing part of the show that leaves people amazed and interested. This is because he uses a simplicity that the music fan can relate to and builds around harmony melody and theme.

Do people who arent drummers see a Dave Weckl solo and go home saying omg did you see him do that triple flamadiddle inverted ratamacaca poo poo. No you dont and thats because thats lost on the average listener. They sure do remember the mallet cat the cowbell fills the big band break see it is able to be related to in a musical context.

Thats why so many other drummers with chops out the roof play clubs and smaller venues Because they arent as accesible they will draw the drummers and musicians out but for the most part it doesent have that widespread musical appeal.

So is Neil Peart the greatest soloist ever certainly not. But if you ask a rock fan who has seen Rush along with many other bands chances are they are going to be very impressed with Peart and remember him as an awesome drummer.

See thats why he has become such a big name people remember him because they can relate musically to what hes doing. I cant really think of another band that has had the sucsess that Rush has that when you mention the band the average music fan says oh yeah they have that insane drummer.

See thats what Peart does he transcends drumming he is an entertainer.

good post man i completly agree

[Mapex589]

I saw Neil from the 10th row last night in St. Louis on the Snakes and Arrows tour and it was as usual.....inspiring! Neil plays with so much intesity but that can only be seen in his face because he plays in such a relaxed fasion. They played a lot from the new album and that was ok with me, I like the new album a lot. I have seen them do the old stuff enough that seeing the new material played is very refreshing. Being so close I never really saw any other part ot the show...my eyes were on Neil the whole show. It was awesome!!

[slingerland755]

I have been listening to Peart for 25 years. I've seen Rush 5 times and every time I was blown away. I graduated the year Moving Pictures came out and that album changed my life. Neil is a true innovator.

Neil plays the exact lick one would expect in the Rush "hits." However, when the band jumps into a jam (like La Villa S.), anything can happen. They break sections down and improvise with the best of them. I understand people not getting into Geddy Lee's voice or not liking Rush's sound but it's a bit short sighted to just say "ahh I don't get it." Try this, have you a nice fat steak for dinner (with a juicy Cabernet), dim the lights, and relax with your significant other while listening to Permanent Waves uncut. Hallalueja!

[michael drums]

I have been listening to Peart for 25 years. I've seen Rush 5 times and every time I was blown away. I graduated the year Moving Pictures came out and that album changed my life. Neil is a true innovator.

Neil plays the exact lick one would expect in the Rush "hits." However, when the band jumps into a jam (like La Villa S.), anything can happen. They break sections down and improvise with the best of them. I understand people not getting into Geddy Lee's voice or not liking Rush's sound but it's a bit short sighted to just say "ahh I don't get it." Try this, have you a nice fat steak for dinner (with a juicy Cabernet), dim the lights, and relax with your significant other while listening to Permanent Waves uncut. Hallalueja!

...or Hemispheres!

Play On! ;-)

[slingerland755]

You're exactly right!

[slingerland755]

[QUOTE=WhereDoEaglesDare?;351310]good post man i completly agree[/QUOTE
Dude, you took the words right out of my mouth.

[stasz]

Happy 55th Birthday Neil! I heard you had a killer show on Saturday, but I wasn't able to attend. Hope you can keep rockin' for another 55.

[michael drums]

Happy Birthday, Professor!

Here's to another 55, Mr. Peart...


Play On! :-)

[fumana05]

Well I'd say that you need to look a little closer then my friend because most of the time not just one thing is going on at once. Like when he's playing the waltz section, have you actually tried to do that without a little practice. Not very easy from my experience. Also, if you are so educated then you would have found a full coverage of his Anatomy of a Drum Solo DVD. No? In fact just watch what the snipits we have here on DW, and see for yourself. Hopefully you will begin to see the clearer picture as to how his solo was meant to be, a tribute to drumming in general and his progression through that world.

It also confuses me when you compare him to people such as Jojo and Brian Blade. Last I checked they don't even play his style of music. I tend to believe that your taste in music has biased this opinion. As for the large kit thing too, listen to his new song Malignant Narcissism, that was played on a 5 piece. No long tom rolls, none of his "untasteful" use of so many drums, just one solid instrumental track.

Also, remember that a solo isn't the image of a drummers talent. If thats all you listen to then you really need to take a step back and do some more research because you've missed some pretty good stuff (ex. Mike Portnoy, I agree the solos are poor but the tracks he produces are much better).

Hope you're enlightened.

Hello everyone...thought I might bring up a thread that hasn't had a post for a while. I actually came on here quite a lot a while back but got busy so when I came back I couldn't get into my account...anyway. I come because something has been bothering me.

I have seen many a video of Peart. I wasn't blown away or anything, but I didn't mind him. But a visit to the good old YouTube and another watch of his solos and such, and I quickly became confused. Looking at the amount of people proclaiming that drums were invented for Peart, and that without a doubt he is the greatest drummer ever to live, I thought I was taking crazy pills. I was ALMOST drawn to start an argument and become like one of those losers who sit on YouTube and drone on and on about why Derek Roddy is so much better than Joey Jordison (they're both tasteless in my opinion but that's beside the point).

Every single solo I've seen of Peart immediately reminds me of solo's I would come up with when I'd been playing for 6 months to a year. Four on the floor, semiquavers on the snare with some triplets, and some tom fills. I'm not here to say I could school Peart in a battle or that he's crap or anything like that, I've just honestly been baffled by why people continue to be so amazed by stuff that many beginners come up with for their first solo. When I was in a Mike Mangini clinic he actually said that the whole four on the floor thing is a beginnerish thing (in the sense that it's what drummers start out with, not that it's bad or anything).

If I was playing stuff so similar to Peart after such a short while of playing and only being able to play a Go-Go's greatest hits album, how is he so good?

After roughly 8 minutes of soloing I saw a guy who looked uncomfortable and frankly unhappy (beside the point but it doesn't hurt to show some emotion...) and who could come up with nothing but basically what would usually be a rock fill played over and over again. It bored me to tears, not because it was simple (some of the best sounding licks I've heard are simple) but because it just seemed so repetitive and uncreative.

There's hardly any dynamic range in his soloing. For the best drummer in the world he sure doesn't show any contrast. I saw an old post on here saying how he leaves heaps of space and such in his solos...I could here no space except the space between his semiquavers and the time it took him to jump around to his electronic drum kit. So often in drumming less is more...

Which leads me to the next thing. He has such a big kit, but I just see him use it so uncreatively, it's honestly uninspiring. There are so many drummers out there who create just this amazing contrast and inventive grooves and patterns on a 4-piece, meanwhile Peart continues his long semiquaver tom roll. Bill Stewart, Brian Blade, JoJo Mayer (maybe a 5-piece but close enough), it goes on. While I'm at it I might offend any others who weren't already offended :P...I haven't been so bored or confused since I saw Mike Portnoy play his monster kit.

I've tried to take the high road here folks because I've thought long and hard and I've come up with nothing except that the people who like him can only appreciate big drum kits and loud playing. I know this can't be true so I MUST be missing something. I just don't get it.

Enlighten me!

Harley

Hello all, newly joined on this forum but have been reading for a while. Interesting that of course everyone has and is entitiled to an opinion and I guess thats the purpose here. However, being that I am a big Rush/Neil fan etc. and drummer from many years back it astonishes me the amount of bashing going on.It's easy to say a part is easy to play once it has been figured out, but lets give credit to the creation/invention of the part and song. In other words, so you can copy it ? But can you create it ? And seeing that your such an expert who are you ? What qualifies you to be the judge ?
It will always be debateable that there are many great drummers out there how does one really qualify who is the "best" Its all a matter of opinion, right ?
So in my humble opinion Neil has made a great contribution to the drumming community over the years, he is certainly been an inspiration across the board. When I go to a Rush show I too notice how many people in the audience actually really pay attention and enjoy his solo's. They are very creative, original and musical. As we say here amongst our friends "no one plays like Neil" He's certainly up there among the best, and i admire the man for his accomplishments.
Happy Birthday !!

[cygnify]

I've been a fan of Neil's since I started playing drums - in fact, he was probably the reason I started my music career 25 years ago! My avatar is actually one of two postcards that I had received from Neil in response to "ask a pro" letters I had sent years ago. In spite of my admiration for and inspiration from Neil, I am not a fan that bows to every single note he plays. I can be equally critical of certain aspects of his playing. HOWEVER, I think most criticisms miss the point when they say "his stuff isn't that hard to play." Neil makes music - he plays as a contributor and supporting member of his band. He is not in the business of just creating the most difficult drum fill to play or the craziest odd time groove ever committed. Even his solo is created in a musical sense and is appropriate for the venue it is performed in - large arenas filled with Rock fans. Perhaps it would be different if Neil had developed playing jazz clubs for the past 33 years... Neil is humbly inspired by the masters of drumming history and modern monsters - and he writes about how he wishes he could play like them.

I was thinking about differences in approach between a modern rock master, such as Gavin Harrison, and Neil. Gavin's approach to fills is much more rooted in improvisation - and this, while usually always very impressive, has mixed results. My humble criticism of Gavin's approach would be that his fills almost become interchangeable. You could almost take that massive fill in "Fear of a Blank Planet" and cut and paste it into "Anesthetize" with only a few die hards would notice. On the other hand, Neil's well thought-out fills and patterns almost become part of the melody of the song - it is this aspect that gives many of Neil's drum parts so much personality. Both are valid approaches, with pros and cons.

The fact remains that Neil has been a huge inspiration to a whole generation of Rock drummers, and he, along with Rush, have had a amazing 33 year career (!) of making very creative music that has defined it's own style.

[Honketonk]

I saw Rush last friday for the first time, in Oberhausen, Germany, and it was soooo awesome !!! Expected a lot, and got more than that ! Played all their classic hits and lots of Snakes & Arrows, these songs really kick live ! Animations on the video screens were just RAD ! Awesome, especially the south park one going straight into Tom Sawyer.

Some parts of Neils Solo were exactly like the R30 one, but with kinda other samples in the E-Solo. His red kit looks killer and he played fantastic, so did Geddy and Alex. It was a special night for me, wich I won´t forget too fast !

[balboa]

Drummers like Dennis Chambers, Dave Weckl, Vinnie Colaiuta, Adam Nussbaum, Chad Wackerman and Jack DeJohnette completely and totally blow Neil Peart away. It doesn't matter if they're not rock drummers and he is. Neil Peart has to be one of the most overrated drummers of all time. I'd bet at least one in five drummers that graduates from the Berklee of music every year can do everything that Neil Peart can do including the odd time. The only difference is he's in huge band that's been huge for a long time and they're not.

they couldnt blow him away in RUSH!!! only one great drummer for RUSH!!!excluding rutsy, and thats NEIL PEART baby

[Class A Drummer]

I don't want to ruffle anybody's feathers here but I always found Peart to be somewhat wooden and lacking in feel. Sure, he's technically great and creative but I just don't think he has much feel. Of course Rush/Peart fans think this is blasphemy...

I'll come right out and say it:

Peart is influential and really good, but his lack of feel knocks him considerable down on the list of greatest drummers ever.
I disagree. I dont think he could have become such a legend without having a feel. Sure he kinda looks like a piece of lead while he plays (i dont remember who said that on this forum but its the best way for me to describe it) but i dont see how he doesnt have a feel. Listen to songs like La Villa Strangiato and Subdivisions.
I guess we probably have different views but I just dont think he is lacking feel.

Edit- Heh heh, this is my 3333rd post haha.

[michael drums]

Well...


As you can see, this "so-called" ManCannon, is a "one and done" poster, just tryin' to stir-up controversy Class A. Only 1 post...3 1/2 MONTHS AGO!

And I wouldn't be surprised if it's just one of the regular Neil Peart bashers ALREADY a member of DW. Tryin' to throw in his 2 cents(at best) under the radar...

Paaa-leezz...

[Jammin' Jamin 2112]

I think it's amazing how Neil Peart is such a consistent player. Sure he plays everything in conert the EXACT same as on the record, and does it with a serious look his face. That's because when he creates his drum parts for Rush songs, he actually makes them a peice of music. Even his solos are all planned out. It's not that he can't improvise to shake things up, it's just that he doesn't want to.

[Liquid_Drummer]

Rate Neil however you want. One thing is for sure and I think it is the point that people who put him down miss. He has his own "voice" behind the drums. There are incredible technical drummers out there like Weckl etc and as good as Dave is he could not play Neil's parts the way Neil plays them. Just like having someone sit in for Bonham. Yes the songs work but they are not the same.

I think Neil was a better drummer in the past than he is now and I think his "reinvention" plus his terrible family losses hurt his playing. He got bored and its understandable that he wanted to change his style but if its not broke dont fix it.

Listen to The Camera Eye" and tell me Neil isnt a bad ass because that is some very intense drumming there and his live performances in the 80's.. Forget about it. Rush without Neil would not work because his "voice" is essential and will forever be a huge part of drumming history.

Oh, and he writes all the lyrics.

[michael drums]

Well said, LD! Great point(s)!

There's NO ONE that could do what NP has done for Rush, and have given his type of inspiration to the masses that have followed his incredible career as a musician, lyricist, AND an author.

And THANK YOU, LD, for returning some common sense to this thread...


Peace! ;-)

[Smashin Jack]

He is my favorite drummer of all time, followed by MP. When I first started in playing drums My Sharona was big on the radio and I really liked the drums on it, so I would bang my Remo practice pad to the song constantly. Then I heard Tom Sawyer and from that point on Peart was my idol. I remember sitting there with the cassette player rewinding the lead over and over trying to figure it out. It was my first introduction to odd meter and I loved the challenge. The only problem was, after learning to play like Neil was a mistake for me as a young drummer. It took years and years to become a more rounded player. For instance, when I was a kid I played in a band that did Anthem (Rush), Highway Star (Deep Purple) and I could play all the parts, but when I went to try to play a Beatles song with my older brother I overcomplicated things and couldn't really get the groove. I don't mean to turn this post into a lecture, but if young drummers out there want to sound original, do what Neil says and master many drummers styles, not just one or two!

[KarlCrafton]

Ok,
As much as I dig NP, and I thought he was so awesome when I was a kid (he's still awesome), but has anyone else noticed in the big 2 page ad for the new DW 23" bass drum, Neil states that for the last 33 years he's played a 22" bass drum?

Back when he was with Tama his kicks were 24's, and he was with Tama for a long time, so what's up with that?

Even in his written Tour Program spots he had his kicks listed as 24's.

He say's that he liked the sound of 24's, but they didn't work for him, and he stayed with 22's.

I don't think I'm being a nit-picker, or an a-hole for pointing this out......

Anyone else have a thought on this?

Here's a link to the DW site NP article

http://www.dwdrums.com/peart/heartandsoul1.html

I just find this really curious....

[Matt-a-tat-tat]

Drum solos are always boring to me. Peart's solo is - as he describes - a piece in and of itself and a percussive stroll down the history of drums. I like his solo. It's not some bit about how complicated he can play or how fast.
Listen to the mixed 'Main Monkey Business' drum track on his website www.neilpeart.net
He's good. Flat out. No need to discuss it really.

[KaBoom21]

I could go on but I'll just add this: his compositional work on albums such as Permanent Waves and Moving Pictures is amazing. That's where his true strength lies.

[Citizen Insane]

I saw Rush last year for my birthday, the best show I've ever seen. Peart is one of my main inspirations to play the drums. He can solo like no other drummer, their more like composition rather than solo's, there epic.


Peart is also a very intelligent man, I wish more famous musicians were able to articulate there thoughts like Peart can. It is always very interesting to hear him speak.

[RichardBlank]

I was fortunate enough to see him 3 times. The best in my opinion.

YYZ just keeps getting better.

In addition, I have started taking lessons, I can't really do too much but the passion is there. I guess that is where we begin.


Richard



.

[Deltadrummer]

Yeah, I think you'll find a few Neal Peart fans around here. :)

[Tama Player]

I was fortunate enough to see him 3 times. The best in my opinion.

YYZ just keeps getting better.

In addition, I have started taking lessons, I can't really do too much but the passion is there. I guess that is where we begin.


Richard



.

I love Neil. Great drummer.

But I would be cautious as to saying he is the best drummer around..

Alex R

[The Keith Moon]

I would say Neil Peart is a Keith Moon with perfection, who puts all his concentration in drumming, But Keith Moon with all the imperfections was fun to watch.

[Guinness]

I've seen him 5 times in concert, but gonna' miss him this go around. He is one of the greats in my opinion.

[fixxxer]

Big fan here! As a matter of fact, I just saw Rush last Friday night here in Dallas! Great show! The guys themselves may be "aging" but their playing (and music) is still dead-on! I was very impressed with the stuff they played off of "Snakes and Arrows".
Not only did I get to see Peart play, but I got to meet Vinnie Paul in the VIP lounge at the venue! Another great drummer and a real nice guy!

[Class A Drummer]

Neil Peart is great. I, like you, used to think he was the best. Look at the vids on the main page and your view will change very quickly.

[RichardBlank]

Thanks for the replies. I am sure that his name has popped up every now and again.

Is it true that he has never dropped a drumstick during a concert?

Just to mention, back in 1984, grace under pressure was my first concert. Imagine, Philadelphia spectrum, tons of craziness and a young 12 year old Richard with his dad in a 3 piece suit. "Pops, what is that smell?Something burning?"

Those were the days...


Richard

[SickRick]

Is it true that he has never dropped a drumstick during a concert?

No, never. That's why he is the best.

[harryconway]

I hear he never sleeps, too...and can speak w/ the deceased.



I've never dropped a stick on stage, either. Can't talk to dead people though, ...but I see stupid people everywhere I go.

[sshu]

Sorry if this has been posted before, but what is the deal with these DW ads Neil has going on? The shocker for me was not so much the one about his new custom-sized, mega bass drum, but the VLT snare thing and him potentially mothballing his old snares was quite a shock to me ...

Steve

[zambizzi]

Yeah, he's totally pimping the whole 23" bass drum thing, and the vertical grain shells.

I thought it was a little silly, that two-page ad in MD about the 23" bass. My first thought was, "is it really, seriously, honestly...any better than a 22"?". The ad was so dramatic...like Neil found the 23" kick to be so dramatically different that he absolutely had to have it. Of course, more obvious is, DW is just having him push it in their marketing...but it just seems silly to me.

My DW floor toms had vertical grain plies and honestly, there was no audible difference between that and my drums that didn't.

[King Crimson]

I am 45 and will be seeing him for the 14th time this july in Charlotte, NC.

There are some really good drummers out there past and present.

But I would never begin a conversation regarding drummers without mentioning him very early on.

I have seen Gadd, Bruford, Heyward, Hakim, Copeland, Smith, Carlock, Chambers, Thompson, Collins, White, Palmer, Bellson and would say that to me, he is as good as any of them.

[tak22thegoat]

Neil Peart's a great drummer.
It's just annoying to see people saying that Neil Peart, Travis Barker, Virgil Donati, Thomas Lang, You Get The Idea are the BEST or GREATEST drummer. There is no BEST or GREATEST drummer. Whether its your opinion, there is no BEST. All of these drummers are great and unique.

Besides that, does anyone else feel that Neil Peart sounds mechanical? Just my opinion.

[ULTIMATEDRUMMER]

I like Limelight has a good feel and change in time sig.

[Citizen Insane]

No, never. That's why he is the best.

Dave Weckl drop his sticks all the time, obviously he is the worst. =O

[Matt-a-tat-tat]

Thanks for the replies. I am sure that his name has popped up every now and again.

Is it true that he has never dropped a drumstick during a concert?

Just to mention, back in 1984, grace under pressure was my first concert. Imagine, Philadelphia spectrum, tons of craziness and a young 12 year old Richard with his dad in a 3 piece suit. "Pops, what is that smell?Something burning?"

Those were the days...


Richard

I've seen him drop a stick, Hold Your Fire show he dropped a stick. Dropping sticks happens. Nothing you can do about that except glue them to yourself maybe. I've seen him break sticks. I've even seen the whole band get completely lost during "Secret Agent" on the Counterparts Tour here in Austin; I mean they completely got all messed up and they got back into it without any problems at all. Truly great musicians those guys. I've even seen Peart stand up during a break in a song and do the Pete Townshend guitar arm thing then he sat back down and began playing. In 96 at the Test For Echo show in San Antonio, Lifeson's whole rig went out and the solo in "Subdivisions" was getting close. He stayed calm. The crew got it on just in time. Truly a great crew.

[zambizzi]

I like Limelight has a good feel and change in time sig.

Without a doubt my favorite Rush song - I'm trying to learn it right now...tough translating all that stuff into a 4pc kit!

[-Nirvana-]

Hey any of you ever see this its amazing it really show how amazing he is and that he can play amazing on any size kit!!!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=47yxLg2RyXM

(its at the buddy rich memorial concert)

[Drummerboy30]

Hey any of you ever see this its amazing it really show how amazing he is and that he can play amazing on any size kit!!!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=47yxLg2RyXM

(its at the buddy rich memorial concert)

I couldnt watch the video because my computer is messed up, but im pretty sure its the four piece kit thats purple sparkle. If you listen to the new RUSH album Snakes and Arrows, he pretty much only uses 5 or 6 drums, which is pretty dissapointing after being a Rush fan and listening to the old songs and loving the "Tom Sawyer Fill" and the "Limelight Ending" when you are a fan of Neil Peart and credit him for those things, its kind of a downer when he only uses a few of his many drums.

[Drummerboy30]

I've seen him drop a stick, Hold Your Fire show he dropped a stick. Dropping sticks happens. Nothing you can do about that except glue them to yourself maybe. I've seen him break sticks. I've even seen the whole band get completely lost during "Secret Agent" on the Counterparts Tour here in Austin; I mean they completely got all messed up and they got back into it without any problems at all. Truly great musicians those guys. I've even seen Peart stand up during a break in a song and do the Pete Townshend guitar arm thing then he sat back down and began playing. In 96 at the Test For Echo show in San Antonio, Lifeson's whole rig went out and the solo in "Subdivisions" was getting close. He stayed calm. The crew got it on just in time. Truly a great crew.

Yeah, just recently I saw him drop a stick on the Snakes and Arrows tour, It actually bounced down onto the stage and Alex kind of kicked it to one of the front rowers.

[Drumsword]

I agree with Jason, (I haven't read all gazillion replies) but Neil is consistent night after night, You may not be a Rush fan but every drummer needs to give neil the respect he deserves.

And His writing too, (Books as well as lyrics) has influenced me greatly. I have all 4 books and every one is a good read. I may not always agree with his philosophical views but we're all different. He has certainly played an influence in my drumming (And writing).

[King Crimson]

And His writing too, (Books as well as lyrics) has influenced me greatly. I have all 4 books and every one is a good read. I may not always agree with his philosophical views but we're all different. He has certainly played an influence in my drumming (And writing).

Well said Drumsword.

[Drummerboy30]

No, never. That's why he is the best.

Hey Rick, I hope your just kidding about him not dropping a stick because Ive seen him do it, just as we all have and if we have not we will, for some reason or another

[m1ck]

The World's Greatest Drummer -- And Other Hang-Ups

http://www.aquariandrumheads.com/concepts/display.asp?id=1

(BTW, lest there be any confusion, I love Neil Peart, and consider him an inspiration.)

[The Keith Moon]

I just saw Rush 30th anniversary DVD.

I would say Neil Peart seems to be the best and best of all, I think , with that Perfect Keith Moon grooves. I dont think I can ever play like Neil Peart (I will try though) because his each and every stroke is so perfect and I dont see any imperfections in his playing. He doesnt make any funny faces or cheap show offs but just sit there (doesnt seem to sit still though!) with extreme concentration and play. Like someone said before, He plays just like it was studio recorded and thats make him a brilliant musician and a drummer.

The reality is every drummer is unique to me and plays well. In drumming I dont see the word "sloppy".

[Jammin' Jamin 2112]

Did anyone know that Neil Peart was rated the 2nd WORST lyricist by Blender Magazine? I think this is ridiculous. I'd like to see the writers of Blender create a 20 minute long sci-fi song.

[Tom Sawyer]

Did anyone know that Neil Peart was rated the 2nd WORST lyricist by Blender Magazine? I think this is ridiculous. I'd like to see the writers of Blender create a 20 minute long sci-fi song.

I also found this incredible. It's ok not to like his style, but to say he writes bad lyrics is ignorant. He wrote some damn fine stuff back in the 70s and 80s, and is writing even deeper, more "real" material these days, since he pretty much left the fantasy themes.
Snakes & Arrows is packed with awesome lyrics.

[zambizzi]

In 3 hrs. I'll be watching Neil live! Whoo hoo!

[zambizzi]

...and he was incredible, of course. How he can play so fast and hard after all these years is mind boggling. He snapped one of those oak sticks on the bell of his ride during his solo and without missing a beat, tossed it and pulled out another.

He looks miserable while he plays...but he tore it up, for sure. The whole band was incredible.

I just wish I had brought my earplugs, I forgot on the way out the door...

[mikei]

...and he was incredible, of course. How he can play so fast and hard after all these years is mind boggling. He snapped one of those oak sticks on the bell of his ride during his solo and without missing a beat, tossed it and pulled out another.

He looks miserable while he plays...but he tore it up, for sure. The whole band was incredible.

I just wish I had brought my earplugs, I forgot on the way out the door...
He does look miserable or at least slightly constipated while playing. I always wished that he would "get into it" a bit more.

One of the things I love about Portnoy and Bonham. You can just tell how much fun they are having.

[aaajn]

saw him for the first time Saturday night. the band was awesome. And being a Southpark fan; Way to go.

Great show.

John

In 3 hrs. I'll be watching Neil live! Whoo hoo!

[LinearDrummer]

One of the things I love about Portnoy and Bonham. You can just tell how much fun they are having.

I don't think he's ever been that type of player.....pretty much all business....

Plus I don't get the whole Portnoy hitting himself on the side of his head with his stick....

[drum_widow]

Hi,
Let me first apologize if I posted this wrong or in the wrong place but I am not familiar with these sites. I leave that to my husband (which is why I am here). Just like most of you my husband is a HUGE Neil fan. I am looking for something very special to get him for his birthday in October. We just went to see Rush in May, and he has all the videos I believe. He doesn't have many of the books but those will be gifts from the kids. What I was hoping to find out is if there are any drum clinics going on with Neil anywhere (I'm willing to fly him anywhere in North America) or if anyone has any other great suggestions. What would be your ultimate Neil gift (besides his drums)? Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated. And once again I apologize if I posted this wrong. Thanks for your help!

[crdirtRider856]

[QUOTE=drum_widow;459461]Hi,
Let me first apologize if I posted this wrong or in the wrong place but I am not familiar with these sites. I am looking for something very special to get him for his birthday in October. QUOTE]

No worries, sounds like you your pretty supportive! You could possibly find a signed drumhead from Neil but you have to be careful with getting the "true" thing.(E bay, Craigslist). If not, tickets to their next show would be enough to make any Rush fan happy! Good luck!

[crdirtRider856]

Did anyone know that Neil Peart was rated the 2nd WORST lyricist by Blender Magazine? I think this is ridiculous. I'd like to see the writers of Blender create a 20 minute long sci-fi song.

Its quite possible they just dont know how to read, someone send those idiots the lyrics to "Nobody s Hero" please.

[kwolf68]

That's part of Peart's playing. You can't just go to a concert and expect the band to improvise and change every song on their set. Sometimes it's good just to hear what you're hearing on the CD. You get a sense of familiarity with it. For example, a certain fill or something small like a triplet in a ride pattern. Neil Peart is a perfectionist in his playing. You can't dislike him just because he chooses and remembers to play every exact note on a CD. It's irrational. Not every drummer has to change what they're playing, for a concert.


+1. Also, those drummers who are so big on improv are probably improving because they can't play what they laid down in studio.

With Peart you know it's all real, no studio gimmicks with him, no double takes and do-overs...he produces brilliant drumming, puts in on record and then goes out and gets it done on stage.

I would NOT want to hear "Tom Sawyer" improvised, because it does not need to be...the fact he plays the song 'as is' time and time again is what astounds me about the guy. He's brilliant. And if you want to see Neil Peart improvise, he does and will, it's usually on his drum solos in concert. I've seen Rush over the years 7 or 8 times and not once have they (Peart, Alex, and Geddy) been anything less than brilliant and breathtaking.

[BjornMoren]

IMO his concert solos ARE improvisations, and are anything BUT boring.

I have two live albums and Ive seen Rush live once. I got the feeling he didnt improvise at all in his solos. I havnt studied this in any detail, so you could be right.

Peart does some inventive drumming both on songs and in his solos, and some songs I really like a lot. But for me it feels like he cant think outside the box. I cant even imagine him emulating Zigaboo, Garibaldi, Gadd or Stubblefield. Even the simplest groove. Either he's not into that music or he doesnt get it.

Dont get me wrong; hes probably the best drummer of prog rock, but I cant stop feeling like there is something missing. Maybe simply because Im not into prog rock anymore.

Just because Neil Peart shows that he is serious about his playing, and has a look of concentration that looks like he isn't having fun, I can assure you, that couldn't be further from the truth.

Sorry I shouldnt have been so harsh. I realise that some drummers are more about performance. Again, its not my style, but I have to respect it.

And why is it a bad thing to play every fill exactly like the albums? I'll NEVER understand why some have a problem with that. :-| Doesn't that show precision in his playing? His dedication to his craft? What makes him who he is?.

It surely shows who he is. He is all about that. And thats an admirable skill. But come on, he's got to be able to improve and improvise on songs that he wrote 20 years ago. Where is his progress as a musician? He could probably play Tom Sawyer in his sleep. I would love to hear that song with brand new fills, not that the original fills are bad.

I personally think he did a very respectable performance of Cottontail, with a sweet solo along with it.?.

I wouldnt say he sucks, but pretty close to it. Have you watched the clip? The phrasing, the timing, the dynamics. Where is it?

And as far as his lyrical inspiration from Ayn Rand, it's been years since he's written any AR inspired lyrics. It's not like he's obsessed with Rand. A lot of lyricists are inspired by writers and authors, aren't they?

Yea youre right. Sorry for mentioning it.

Anyway...Welcome to DW. ;-)

Thanks man! :-)

[Vipercussionist]

He does look miserable or at least slightly constipated while playing. I always wished that he would "get into it" a bit more.

One of the things I love about Portnoy and Bonham. You can just tell how much fun they are having. I suspect that's just an involuntary face he makes when he's entirely focused on what he's doing. I'd say he couldn't BE more into it!

I doubt (though I don't KNOW) it's any real bad or distasteful vibes for him.
.
.

[DjKaos]

Who did the cowbells routine first?


Mike Portnoy
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jBnK7fC4yj0

Neil Pert
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=47yxLg2RyXM

[Baddstuff]

I've seen Rush 5 times, the last time being around the Permanent Waves tour. I have a few albums after that but they lost me after a while. I think Neil is one of the premier prog rock drummers of all time, period. He has his style and he's damn good at it, just like other drummers have their style. So what if Neil can't groove like Steve Gadd or Jeff Porcaro, does it really matter?
I think Neil looks a bit wooden when he plays and doesn't appear to be the most graceful looking of drummers I've seen but you know what...he gets the job done and he does it extremely well. He's continued to push himself and improve when he could easily rested on his considerable laurels. I say enjoy the man for what he is and what he has accomplished. You don't get to his level of playing by accident or by sheer luck. He's the consummate pro, period.

[wy yung]

I think he's great at what he does. I respect anyone who is successful at what they do. I do feel though that his influence is not always positive in that it can make many younger guys over play. Fills every 4 bars or so etc. This works great in Rush but wont be as profitable in a Steppenwolf cover band.

[enforcerdrummer]

Stu-Strib, so your saying from Power Windows which was released in 1985 and beyond has been horrifying? Just a suggestion I would really listen again. I wasn't totally thrilled with Roll the Bones CD, but it grew on me. As far as every other album within that time frame I think has been great Presto is an awesome album because it was the first time they went back to playing stripped down and not alot of sythesizers. I haven't got a chance to pick up their new album Feedback yet but I will.

As far as lyrics you should really read alot of them because Neil Peart writes incredible lyrics. All of their songs are truly about something. Most bands today lyrics are very weak in comparision.

And every band changes with the time, that's just the way it is. Motley Crue, Bon Jovi, Aerosmith, Living Colour ( whose last album was just awful!) all of them sound nothing like they did when they first came out if Led Zeppelin was still around their sound would have changed as well. And all of those bands I mentioned above have produced crap music since the late 90's or 00's. Even my latest favorite bands like Tool since 1993 and Sevendust since 1997 have changed the way they sound. Rush has produced 18 albums not including lives ones ( 29 in all) and still have a tremendous following. They didn't suffer the death that most hair bands did who are now only playing 500 seat venues because no one really wants to see them anymore. The TRUE Rush faithful has and will always remain. Come back to the dark side STU!!!...LOL

PS
What still amazes me the most is they did not replace members since Neil took over for John Rustey after their very first album, and that is dedication to each other and shows the true strength of a band survivng and changing with the times.


Woooo man, wooooo! Living Colour's last album was terrible! After reading that my eyes hurt. Living Colour rules and their last album was great in my opinion. Let's here 3 doors down version of "Back in Black." And Rush Rules too and I wish they were more like Living Colour. Instead of playing to computer graphics and videos, it would be nice if Rush changed their songs a little. Not every song, I mean Tom Sawyer is a classic but change it up some. Just some. The acoustic songs they did during their 2004 tour was nice and they need to expand on those ideas.

[Baddstuff]

thats why i dislike him, its like why would you want to go to a concert and listen to the SAME thing you would hear on the CD, i dunno, its kinda boring.

I've been to shows where the band plays it just like the CD and others where the band changes it up. I prefer a band that plays the song like I know it. Changing it just for the sake of changing it doesn't make much sense to me. The live performance is where it's at. Nothing beats that and if the band plays it like the CD I don't care because the energy of the live show blows away any CD. That's not boring to me but hey, that's just me.

[Baddstuff]

I think he's great at what he does. I respect anyone who is successful at what they do. I do feel though that his influence is not always positive in that it can make many younger guys over play. Fills every 4 bars or so etc. This works great in Rush but wont be as profitable in a Steppenwolf cover band.

well, that's where the drummer needs to show some discipline. You wouldn't play like Charlie Watts in Rush or like Neil in the Rolling Stones. If a drummer favors a busy style then maybe he should join a band that needs that style. One should play for the song, not to massage one's ego. It takes discipline.

[Mediocrefunkybeat]

I've been to shows where the band plays it just like the CD and others where the band changes it up. I prefer a band that plays the song like I know it. Changing it just for the sake of changing it doesn't make much sense to me. The live performance is where it's at. Nothing beats that and if the band plays it like the CD I don't care because the energy of the live show blows away any CD. That's not boring to me but hey, that's just me.

Some bands write in the studio, others write on tour. Radiohead do both. When they did the tours for 'Kid A' and 'Amnesiac' they actually had to re-arrange all their songs to work in a live situation, with some really great results. I always like hearing new arrangements of old classics and sometimes I just wish bands would stop resting on their laurels and experiment. If it goes wrong, it goes wrong, but if you're a band like Rush who've been going for thirty years plus, there is no financial risk from changing your style. Whilst it might alienate some fans; other than a lack of imagination, there is no reason why you shouldn't try something new. Lots of great bands do it - Pink Floyd and Led Zeppelin being but two - underwent enormous stylistic changes and their durations (or at least their 'classic' periods) were less than half that of Rushes!

At least spice up the live arrangements to do something new. If I wanted to see exact covers I'd go and see a tribute band. Otherwise I'd just buy the CD.

[Baddstuff]

I understand what you're saying. Some people like bands to mix it up a bit and others are content to hear the songs as they were recorded. No matter what Rush does they will not please everybody. Tribute bands are OK but for the most part they're not my cup of tea. If I want to hear Rush songs I want to hear Neil playing them since he created the drums parts. A tribute band drummer, regardless of how good he is, is merely copying someone else's licks. And when I watch the Rush in Rio DVD it looks to me like those folks out there didn't mind one bit the songs were played like the CD. I hear what you're saying but by now I think most people know what they're gonna get when they go see Rush. I'm assuming that those that go to the shows will take Rush as they are. To each his own! :)

[Baddstuff]

I see some people here calling Peart the best drummer ever. I've seen Neil 5 times and I think he's one of the great prog drummers of all time but as someone who has seen Billy Cobham, Dennis Chambers, Terry Bozzio, Dave Weckl, Louis Bellson, Steve Smith, Rod Morgenstein, Alphonse Mouzon, Lenny White, Carl Palmer, Virgil Donati, Gary Novak, Dave Garibaldi, Chad Wackerman, etc, and the master himself...Buddy Rich, I cannot call Neil 'THE BEST'.

[michael drums]

I see some people here calling Peart the best drummer ever. I've seen Neil 5 times and I think he's one of the great prog drummers of all time but as someone who has seen Billy Cobham, Dennis Chambers, Terry Bozzio, Dave Weckl, Louis Bellson, Steve Smith, Rod Morgenstein, Alphonse Mouzon, Lenny White, Carl Palmer, Virgil Donati, Gary Novak, Dave Garibaldi, Chad Wackerman, etc, and the master himself...Buddy Rich, I cannot call Neil 'THE BEST'.

Well...


I've seen Neil Peart 22 times, and I can assure you, he's "one" of THE best "rock" drummers of all time. If you categorize each drummer to his "own" genre of drum style(music), you can certainly make the case for NP as the best "rock drummer" ever. Though you'd have some disagreements.

But to bunch up all the above drummers into one category, is NOT how you determine who's "the best ever".

And I have seen Weckl, Palmer and Smith in concert. And have seen countless videos and heard even more recordings of Buddy.

[Baddstuff]

I prefer the term 'one of the best' as opposed to calling someone 'the best'. Even Buddy Rich, who I have seen, I hesitate to call him The Best. I've seen too many incredible drummers to single one out and put The Best label on him. Some people can do that, I can't. I guess calling someone the best makes for good discussion but that's about it.
And tomorrow night I will be seeing 'one of the best', Mr. Billy Cobham.
I haven't seen Billy since his days after Mahavishnu so I am primed and ready.

[Vipercussionist]

IMO I see that Neil has IMPROVED as he's gotten older and probably wiser. His "groove quotient" has improved and his chops have gotten more precise and clean.

It used to bug me when they would go from one section of a tune to the next it would change tempo, speed AND feel.

I like the smoother way they've matured at the segues and changes by grabbing both ends and pulling them to straighten them out a bit. (if you know what I mean)

[dimensiontr]

i really can't the fuss going on about neil peart being the greatest or one of the greatest drummers ever all around the net. this is just my opinion so please people don't start getting angry.

i've watched him a lot but he never ever got me interested with his playing. I thought it was empty and shallow playing. I can't feel anything with his playing. Maybe he has good technique but he never coordinates his solos. He just does one thing, stops and does another thing. It's like a series of moves you study at home. No improvisation at all.

I just can't really understand people can even compare him with the legends like Buddy Rich, Dave Weckl, John Bonham, Dennis Chambers, Elvin Jones and so on. I think it's an insult to these legends to call Neil Peart the greatest drummer.

[michael drums]

i really can't the fuss going on about neil peart being the greatest or one of the greatest drummers ever all around the net. this is just my opinion so please people don't start getting angry.

i've watched him a lot but he never ever got me interested with his playing. I thought it was empty and shallow playing. I can't feel anything with his playing. Maybe he has good technique but he never coordinates his solos. He just does one thing, stops and does another thing. It's like a series of moves you study at home. No improvisation at all.

I just can't really understand people can even compare him with the legends like Buddy Rich, Dave Weckl, John Bonham, Dennis Chambers, Elvin Jones and so on. I think it's an insult to these legends to call Neil Peart the greatest drummer.

He's "one" of the greatest drummers of all time.

In fact...Modern Drummer considers him a Drum God.

That's NOT "hero worship", as some like to call it.

It's just fact.

And please stop comparing NP with others. It's really not how to appreciate him.

He's his "own" drummer, just like the others are.

You know what the word "unique" means?

[michael drums]

Who did the cowbells routine first?


Mike Portnoy
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jBnK7fC4yj0

Neil Pert
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=47yxLg2RyXM

Actually...


Portnoy is doing a Peart solo from Exit Stage Left(1982), in this video.

Where was Dream Theater in 1982?

Seriously...MP is a huge NP fan. Hence, who's doing whos' solo?

;-)

[Baddstuff]

i really can't the fuss going on about neil peart being the greatest or one of the greatest drummers ever all around the net. this is just my opinion so please people don't start getting angry.

i've watched him a lot but he never ever got me interested with his playing. I thought it was empty and shallow playing. I can't feel anything with his playing. Maybe he has good technique but he never coordinates his solos. He just does one thing, stops and does another thing. It's like a series of moves you study at home. No improvisation at all.

I just can't really understand people can even compare him with the legends like Buddy Rich, Dave Weckl, John Bonham, Dennis Chambers, Elvin Jones and so on. I think it's an insult to these legends to call Neil Peart the greatest drummer.

if that's how you feel that's quite alright. We all have our own opinions. I don't judge Neil on his solos any more than I judge Dennis Chambers on his. I'm more interested in how a drummer plays with a band than how he plays on his own. A drummer can be a great soloist but if he can't groove with a band then so what, right? Neil does a splendid job in the context of the band. I wouldn't call Neil a groove drummer in the way I would DC, Gadd, Garibaldi, Jeff Porcaro, etc but it doesn't matter. Neil's style fits Rush and that's all that matters.

Speaking for myself I would never compare Neil with Buddy, Weckl, Jones or DC. Comparing him with Mike Portnoy would make more sense. I wouldn't compare Bonham to Buddy either. There is no such thing as THE GREATEST, be it bass, drums, guitar, whatever. It's a mythical title. To call someone ONE OF THE GREATEST makes more sense. But hey, that's just me!

[Zumba_Zumba]

Comparisons. Seriously people. Neil is my biggest drum hero. I know he can't do what Dennis Chambers or Vinnie or Virgil can do, but remember new drummers in the 80's and even early 90's were being measured against Neil. In the 80's (some of you were a mere twinkle in your dad's eye) Neil was pretty much the only drummer using multiple effects in his music (and yes, he did use all of his kit; I hate reading that he didn't here). Check out the video, "A Show of Hands" and the song Territories specifically. He did some cutting edge stuff for the time. Most of you can copy his stuff, and then say, "oh, no big deal, I'm just as good!" Keep in mind, HE INVENTED THESE PATTERNS to nicely fit the music. And prog rock music for most of his career was very electronic and stiff feeling. He's just stuck in his ways. People say the same thing about Lang, but give me a break, he is ground breaking. Funny thing is (and I hope this happens so drumming continues to evolve) in the future, people are going to say all this same negative stuff about Virgil Donati (sorry fanboys). So drumming evolves, tastes change, and influences die. Welcome to the art of drumming.

Oh yeah, Mediocrefunkybeat, I have no idea where you arrived at the conclusion that Rush has not majorly changed their style. Compare Fly by Night, Signals, Hold Your Fire, Presto, and Counterparts. 70s....80s.....90s....2000s. They changed.

[mattsmith]

Funny thing is (and I hope this happens so drumming continues to evolve) in the future, people are going to say all this same negative stuff about Virgil Donati (sorry fanboys). So drumming evolves, tastes change, and influences die. Welcome to the art of drumming.

I don't want to get into the value discussion regarding Neil Peart as much as I want to continue to express my concern for this thought out there that drumming evolves every time it changes.

I just don't see that.

Some of the greatest drumming in the history of the world occured in the 1930s and 40s. It didn't need 70 years to evolve. It was already there, and still is. How about that Dave Tough guy who pushed the stylistic envelope in the 1920s? That stuff is still as good as anything right now/ this minute. Buddy Rich with Artie Shaw and Sid Catlett with everybody in the 30s, Kenny Clarke with Bird in the 40s, Elvin Jones in the 60s, Bonham with Zep in their era. Are people really serious when they say drumming has evolved from that?

Innocently yes, I think I know where guys like Zumba are coming from. Much of the discussion appears to be of a technical nature, with much of that coming from improvements in equipment as much as actual changes in the way we drummers make music evolve. With all seriousness, has there really been that much evolution in American music over the last 30 years, as much as there have been ocassional changes in styles?

What many of these people do is present a perception of individual style. And that's a really good thing. But it's usually not evolution.

When I listen to the so called evolution curve of drums these days, I personally really don't hear so much beyond some tricks that guys perform at clinics, that are outside practical music concepts. Even these so called revolutionary grooves that everyone raves about have been performed in some variation or the other as non western music for hundreds if not thousands of years. In jazz, yeah I do hear some new ideas being exercised from time to time by some very great players. But much of what they are doing are new creative slants on what are really the same old styles of the past. Even when a true eternal groundbreaker like say a Jack DeJohnette looks like he's gonna break out the true rise up the evolutionary ladder, necessary commercial considerations to play with all star tours etc get in the way. The same can also be said for Stewart, Blade etc.

Maybe a certifiable blue chipper like Hoenig can do it. But he will still have to be surrounded by like minded musicians willing to do more than push the envelope of stuff done before. As much as I love that stuff, you still can't help but hear Paul Motian with Bill Evans. And until I quit hearing that, the evolution hasn't ocurred there either.

When Kenny Clarke and Max Roach elevated the importance of left hand and bass drum independence in such a way that it has been incorporated into all necessary playing of today, that was a certifiable evolved revolution, and has stood the test of time. Really much of what we worship now are new concepts based on old ideas already used by fusion guys 40 years ago, and in the case of guys like Lenny White you didn't even need 2 bass drum pedals to do it. On that note, it's also interesting to me to see so many people now going back to one pedal, which is why people usually don't always claim evolution until time has passed to see if the so called evolution was really a just a fad. Now I'm not saying that's the case with that. But it's all still very new.

Like him or not, Neil Peart's got the magic, even if some of us think the whole he's a god thing is kinda silly. I only wish we would think twice when we throw out the word evolution for every little thing. To me, that's a word you keep in your wallet to use when it really is that.

[Ian Williams]

Hello, All.

Even drummers such as Neil Peart plus others have to learn and practise something new everyday, I do.
Every head is a different world, has a different opinion and different approach, that is part of life, that We must respect.

Cheers,

[Deltadrummer]

That is the problem, the idolatry that goes into modern music making. And in Rock Band you can be Slash, Joe Perry or Jimmy Page or whomever for five minutes.

You can go see any number of great drummers, Brian Blade, Jeff Watts or Paul Motian in a club, have a good talk and shake their hand. It was when that aspect of music was lost in rock that the notion of a musical experience went down the drain.

[fixmejesus]

The fact that the man can play his licks today the same as he did when he was in his 20's really shows the need for us drummers to respect the man. Not to mention he COMPOSES the songs, he is INVENTIVE and writes great LYRICS.

Listen to "Faithless" from Snakes and Arrows and you will see what I mean. And for those who think they have not evolved, compare this song with Tom Sawyer.

[fixmejesus]

That is the problem, the idolatry that goes into modern music making. And in Rock Band you can be Slash, Joe Perry or Jimmy Page or whomever for five minutes.

You can go see any number of great drummers, Brian Blade, Jeff Watts or Paul Motian in a club, have a good talk and shake their hand. It was when that aspect of music was lost in rock that the notion of a musical experience went down the drain.

With Rock Band, now we will have many young drum stars. Listen to the young drummers today, its all about speed, beats per minute, making double bass sound like gas being emitted from their arse holes. No musicality. And these new "JAZZ" drummers. The same crap over the decades. It all sounds the same, fast notes slapped around a 4 piece. My 7 year old son and 9 year old daughter can do that.

[Deltadrummer]

With Rock Band, now we will have many young drum stars. Listen to the young drummers today, its all about speed, beats per minute, making double bass sound like gas being emitted from their arse holes. No musicality. And these new "JAZZ" drummers. The same crap over the decades. It all sounds the same, fast notes slapped around a 4 piece. My 7 year old son and 9 year old daughter can do that.

I don't know who you're listening to but I think you need to rethink your future before you become just another old man shaking his head saying, "kids these days."

If you like Snakes and Arrows great. There is nothing wrong with that. Rush is a respectable band. The point is that too many people over 35 listen to nothing but the same stuff they listened to when they were 16. I loved Bonham when I was 13, then I outgrew it. I saw Rush four times 1976 through 1981. Then I out grew it. I still love both those bands and can listen to Hemispheres and enjoy it. But I don't spend my days with that music as a big part of my life anymore.

Where I live, that is all people listen to. Festivals and clubs have these tributes bands of everyone from Chicago, Zep, Floyd, Tull, Billy Joel, the Eagles. People need to get over the music. It's not music anymore. It's all a big marketing scheme. And they are even starting jazz tribute bands where the guys cop some of the lick on the recordings. It's not pretty.

[mattsmith]

I don't know who you're listening to but I think you need to rethink your future before you become just another old man shaking his head saying, "kids these days."

Ken, I don't really think it's that. Drum forums and youtube have an entire community of middle aged guys who are mad about a lot of stuff. And I'm not talking about very serious players like Steamer, the polite and ageless soak it all in guys like Gruntersdad and mikeii, or interesting guys with a sense of humor like Jon Cable. There really are a lot of older guys who show up to these things angry, when to me that doesn't make a whole lotta sense.

Until recently I personally got all riled up about this personal attack junk, but then it was explained to me by a truly great older musician that older guys who are never present as players but position themselves as top end critics are usually not part of the life anyway. So this is their way of being around. They also are big with using musicality as a comfortable catchphrase, throw their kids and their ages into the mix and lecture in the exact same place about how the younger guy has growing up to do when it's them who are frustrated. I've seen it all and I'm over it.

Not that long ago, I was on another forum where I was in a really nice debate with an older 30 year pro that I thought a lot of as a person and a musician. We disagreed about something, so I thought it would be cool to see the whole both sides thing, and while doing so, learn stuff from this guy. I should also say that HE was totally cool with the idea.

Well, 2 or 3 posts into it some middle aged self proclaimed wing man joined in, telling me what a young punk I was for having the nerve to debate this 30 year vet, the youth of today, their arrogance, growing up to do, etc, etc. Then it just turned into a discussion about me and him, when the original discussion was going great. I even told him that I wasn't going to roll in the mud with him, and he kept trying to bait, sort of like this guy here. Then I just left the board, and when I came back a few days later and he was still at it. Oh well.

Well, upon investigation, I found out this guy was barely out of his 20s himself, had played maybe 12 gigs in his life, worked in random sales jobs, and his myspace was unlistenable. It was obvious that he had only joined in to bring attention to this fantasy he had created. It was no different than those guys who go on computers thinking they're Star Trek characters.

So again, I wish this guy well. I guess we all have our roles. He thinks just respecting Peart's career isn't enough. You have to consider him a god, and if you don't see it that way you're a heretic. Well I just don't see it that way, and if anything, my growing up has helped that perspective not hurt it.

I'm off this discussion for the time being. Thanks.

[fixmejesus]

I don't know who you're listening to but I think you need to rethink your future before you become just another old man shaking his head saying, "kids these days."

If you like Snakes and Arrows great. There is nothing wrong with that. Rush is a respectable band. The point is that too many people over 35 listen to nothing but the same stuff they listened to when they were 16. I loved Bonham when I was 13, then I outgrew it. I saw Rush four times 1976 through 1981. Then I out grew it. I still love both those bands and can listen to Hemispheres and enjoy it. But I don't spend my days with that music as a big part of my life anymore.

Where I live, that is all people listen to. Festivals and clubs have these tributes bands of everyone from Chicago, Zep, Floyd, Tull, Billy Joel, the Eagles. People need to get over the music. It's not music anymore. It's all a big marketing scheme. And they are even starting jazz tribute bands where the guys cop some of the lick on the recordings. It's not pretty.

Nah, the smart kids today listen to Chicago, Zep, Floyd, Rush, police ET. AL.
Why? Because it was original and good. It was about musicianship and quality. It is still music, music so good it still sells over and over again.

I for one don't see my kids ever buying or downloading a Slipnot album ever! And thats a good thing.

[Deltadrummer]

Nah, the smart kids today listen to Chicago, Zep, Floyd, Rush, police ET. AL.
Why? Because it was original and good. It was about musicianship and quality. It is still music, music so good it still sells over and over again.

I for one don't see my kids ever buying or downloading a Slipnot album ever! And thats a good thing.

Yes, it was good music. My library is full of all of it.

The young people where I live have a hard time finding places to perform because the culture is so steeped in the classic rock tradition, as though music stopped happening after 1984. So they started to have concerts at some of the monthly studio rental warehouses to be heard and make some money for rent.The Fire Marshall ended up closing some of them down because they were not zoned for that.

Today there is so much music that never gets heard because people have their heads and arse stuck in 1978. (The year Rush did their first headlining tour of the states, if I recall correctly)

I was getting e mails from Neil Peart recommending Porcupine Tree as I remember correctly, when their new album was coming out. Soundgarden, Radiohead, Tool, The Mars Volta, Muse, Stone Temple Pilots, Galactic, Green Day, Chili Peppers, Incubus, Primus, Coheed and Cambria, Soullive, Dream Theater. Have any of the bands done anything remotely interesting over the last ten years or so, or are we living in a musical vacuum?

[michael drums]

Yes, it was good music. My library is full of all of it.

The young people where I live have a hard time finding places to perform because the culture is so steeped in the classic rock tradition, as though music stopped happening after 1984. So they started to have concerts at some of the monthly studio rental warehouses to be heard and make some money for rent.The Fire Marshall ended up closing some of them down because they were not zoned for that.

Today there is so much music that never gets heard because people have their heads and arse stuck in 1978. (The year Rush did their first headlining tour of the states, if I recall correctly)

I was getting e mails from Neil Peart recommending Porcupine Tree as I remember correctly, when their new album was coming out. Soundgarden, Radiohead, Tool, The Mars Volta, Muse, Stone Temple Pilots, Galactic, Green Day, Chili Peppers, Incubus, Primus, Coheed and Cambria, Soullive, Dream Theater. Have any of the bands done anything remotely interesting over the last ten years or so, or are we living in a musical vacuum?

Well...

If it ain't broke, don't fix it!

NP and Rush ain't broken.

[fixmejesus]

It would we interseting to hear an Rush song stating the condition of the internet today, it would be a sharp contrast to "Virtuality" from 12 years ago.

[DogBreath]

Posts deleted for the usual reasons. Telling someone that they shouldn't question a drummer who is better or more experienced than us would lead to some very short conversations, and personally insulting another forum member will earn you a quick escort to the exit. Play nice or take it elsewhere.

[michael drums]

Posts deleted for the usual reasons. Telling someone that they shouldn't question a drummer who is better or more experienced than us would lead to some very short conversations, and personally insulting another forum member will earn you a quick escort to the exit. Play nice or take it elsewhere.

Telling someone that a certain drummer doesn't appeal to them, on a thread that's dedicated to said drummer, over and over and over...is insulting.

Demanding to "play nice" should be directed to ALL. Not just to ONE individual.

I'm more than happy to comply, DB.

I hope I have some company. And, that we can get back on topic. NP deserves nothing less! ;-)

Thanks!

[Mediocrefunkybeat]

On the other hand, it's a 'Discussion' forum. That's what it's for. Discussion. That means at least two sides.

[Deltadrummer]

Today I bought Hemispheres so I now own it on CD. I was grocery shopping and saw it in the CD bin for $6.99; I knew it had my name on it. I've gotten a lot of classic rock CD's at the grocery store, it's always a real deal.

I remember the Hemispheres tour because it was the last progressive rock tour that Rush did at the time. People actually sat and listened to the music. Then after Permanent Waves, you got all these kids going who would have been better off at a Judas Priest concert. Those are the loyal legions that will follow the band regardless of what they do. It is smart to cater to your fan base. I saw the the Snakes and Arrows tour; it seems to be more like I remember from back in the day. People actually listening to the music. I guess all those kids grew up.

At the time of Hemispheres, there was the developing idea of Science Fiction Rock, and people thought it was going to be the next big thing. It went back to Yes, Starship Trooper and ELP's Tarkus . But it never really took off. Fantasy is a big part of Heavy Metal. But Heavy Metal seems to be too centered on Religious themes, or a-religions themes. I guess there are albums that would exemplify Science Fiction Rock, like Dream Theater's Metropolis. it kind of mixes both as does Hemispheres or Radiohead's OK Computer or Sail to the Moon.I shouldn't say religion as much as spirituality. I think it is an interesting idea, and I have always enjoyed it. And Hemispheres is really the great work in this genre, that never quite sailed. It's "a little bit Neitzsche, a little bit rock and roll." Did Rush revisit the idea of Science Fiction Rock in their later albums? and who else is doing that these days?

[DogBreath]

Telling someone that a certain drummer doesn't appeal to them, on a thread that's dedicated to said drummer, over and over and over...is insulting.

Demanding to "play nice" should be directed to ALL. Not just to ONE individual.

As long as dissenting opinions are stated maturely and respectfully they are actually allowed here. And my comments were directed at everyone.

Please read the posted rules, especialy the part about commenting on the moderation of the forum. Please stay on subject. Thanks!

[Zumba_Zumba]

... I want to continue to express my concern for this thought out there that drumming evolves every time it changes.

Isn't that "evolution"? Just because something evolves does not necessarily mean it is made better. The test of time will determine that.

Well written response as usual, Matt. I learn something every time you write. I merely meant "evolution" as a change in "flashy technique" that so many people cling to when determining the worth of a drummer (like how fast you are, for example) and how certain drummers are applying this flashy technique to today's equipment. I just remember being floored by Neil's layered parts and interdependence. Then I saw Bozzio, then Minneman, then Lang and Donati; each of them with greater interdependence and "feet=hands" technique (in my eyes, at least).

Now there can be a giant debate on how this interdependence was already done and how it really isn't music but that would be purely subjective. We could be lead through the history of music and have our hands slapped for irresponsibly slinging terms like "evolve", but the popular vote is for guys like Donati, Lang etc etc as being cutting edge in applying layered drum parts and interdependence to drum technique. The same type of stuff Neil was credited for back in the day (where so much of this "drum god" stuff probably came from in the first place).

So, I take it out of my wallet, and use it again: as drumming evolves, people will say the same negative comments about Donati (again, sorry fanboys and sorry music history buffs and WFD champions).

[slingerland755]

He does look miserable or at least slightly constipated while playing. I always wished that he would "get into it" a bit more.

One of the things I love about Portnoy and Bonham. You can just tell how much fun they are having.

Neil does look a little "stern". However, the man has been through more grief than most. Everytime I see him, I think about his past and give him the respect and "props" he deserves.

[mattsmith]

Isn't that "evolution"? Just because something evolves does not necessarily mean it is made better. The test of time will determine that.

Well written response as usual, Matt. I learn something every time you write. I merely meant "evolution" as a change in "flashy technique" that so many people cling to when determining the worth of a drummer (like how fast you are, for example) and how certain drummers are applying this flashy technique to today's equipment. I just remember being floored by Neil's layered parts and interdependence. Then I saw Bozzio, then Minneman, then Lang and Donati; each of them with greater interdependence and "feet=hands" technique (in my eyes, at least).

Now there can be a giant debate on how this interdependence was already done and how it really isn't music but that would be purely subjective. We could be lead through the history of music and have our hands slapped for irresponsibly slinging terms like "evolve", but the popular vote is for guys like Donati, Lang etc etc as being cutting edge in applying layered drum parts and interdependence to drum technique. The same type of stuff Neil was credited for back in the day (where so much of this "drum god" stuff probably came from in the first place).

So, I take it out of my wallet, and use it again: as drumming evolves, people will say the same negative comments about Donati (again, sorry fanboys and sorry music history buffs and WFD champions).

Nice reply as always Zumba, and an example of the civility that can be used by 2 people moving thought in a particular direction so both sides can profit from the exchange.

Regarding the flashiness angle, aren't the interdependence experiments used by Lang and Donati really /at least with the mainstream/ technique exhibitions used at clinics and such in of themselves? I have always taken evolution to include the practical applications of most, if not all drummers. For instance the hi-hat application was a changed everything evolution, as was left hand independence and bass drum space that allowed more creativity for the bass player in jazz. Those things are universal now, while at least as far as I can see, some of what you're talking about is still limited to stuff you pay $10 to see at a music store. Now I'm not saying that might not change later, but for now the jury's out.

Now I'm certainly not against the exploration of certain percussion complexity. In fact one of the things I enjoy doing for fun is playing along with Bozzio's old Zappa records. And even though the Donati and Lang stuff just doesn't do it for me personally, I can still respect what goes into it. But after having the advantage to see drumming in many parts of the world, I've found that so called drumming cultures that are supposed to be primitive, have actually been doing for hundreds of years what we consider new evolution now. So is that true evolution? I just can't see that it is.

As you know you open up another big can of worms when bringing speed into a flashiness debate. The who's the fastest stuff is certainly not cutting edge. In fact it was probably the first thing cavemen drummers pushed along in the beginning of everything. I mean I understand what you mean by popular vote, but who's vote are you counting? There are some Yoruba drummers in Nigeria who would think that was pretty funny, because a lot of what you hear these prog guys doing now is often tips of the hat to what those Yoruban guys have been doing for a long time. And as for the odd meter stuff, there are things going on since the Roman times in Romania and Bulgaria I'd love to get you to hear. And even in the modern sense, get DC Criger to play you some of his Don Ellis stuff.

This original slant if I recall came from some fans believing that Peart invented some of these concepts, which is far from the truth. Now to say he was key to bringing some of those centuries old concepts to Euro American rock and making people more aware of it? Sure why not? But the other stuff reminds me of how people used to think Columbus discovered America, when there were already people everywhere.

[Deltadrummer]

I think that Peart brought to fruition a lot of what was going on in earlier progressive rock drumming, and very rudimentary in regards to what drummers being mentioned are doing today. If anything, progressive rock increased the size of the drum set, especially in the addition of the tom toms. This allowed the drummer to move up from his 12" as well as down from his 12", which Neil did a lot. This brought a greater melodic contour to rock drumming. it's a very simple thing; but very effective if nobody had heard it before. Prog also brought greater technique and the abstraction of the bop drummers to rock music. So a drummer would use a rhythmic theme that could come back throughout a piece. A good example of this is Yes' Heart of the Sunrise. Bruford was influenced by Max.

To say that early prog had any relation to bringing world ideas to the fore such as you would see in Nigeria seems problematic. Playing in 7/8, which Neil did a lot in the day, was par for the course, esp after The Mahavishnu Orchestra brought Indian rhythms to the rock mainstream. Everybody needed to prove they could play in odd meters. Steve Reich was the master at bringing these ideas into percussion music; but his relation to the rock mainstream seems tangential at best. Zappa's experiments came more from the European avant-garde, esp Varese, and Cage. it would be interesting if you see some relation in Zappa to other world music ideas, esp if these were intentional.

Wasn't the opening of the bass drum that the bop drummers did a matter of practicality? As the music increased in speed they couldn't play all fours on the Bass drum. So it had ramifications in opening up the bass and opening up the harmonic implications of the piece; but I don't know that the drummers really had a part in that evolution as much as adapting to it. Please correct me if I am wrong here.

For me, the drum set is an instrument in itself. If Virgil Donati plays something that has no practical implications it doesn't really matter. It's like saying "Bach could play a four part invention on the organ; but that has no practical applications in an oratorio or opera so why do it?" Well, later Mozart did it in an opera.

What I am asking is whether or not these evolutions that happenined on the drum set in its early manifestation affected the music or did the music affect these changes Secondly, now that we see these evolutions happening on the drum set "without a musical outlet,"that is they've happened as an evolution of the instrument itself, does that necessarily discredit them or make them any less musical?

[jay norem]

Regarding the flashiness angle, aren't the interdependence experiments used by Lang and Donati really /at least with the mainstream/ technique exhibitions used at clinics and such in of themselves? I have always taken evolution to include the practical applications of most, if not all drummers. For instance the hi-hat application was a changed everything evolution, as was left hand independence and bass drum space that allowed more creativity for the bass player in jazz. Those things are universal now, while at least as far as I can see, some of what you're talking about is still limited to stuff you pay $10 to see at a music store.

I agree with this, Matt, and I don't at all care for the clinic thing that's sprung up.
BUT. People like that stuff. People can't be put down for wanting to play faster, more complicated, more technical, using more pedals and more drums, any more than people can be blamed for coming to this website. The technology is here and the people who have mastered that technology are eager to share it.
The bulk of all this extreme drumming stuff just won't cut it in the professional music scene, and I think that most savy youngsters are going to figure that out eventually, or they won't be working for very long.

[michael drums]

Oops...


How could I have forgotten?

HAPPY 56th, Neil!!! ;-) (Sept.12, 1952)


And many more!!

[mattsmith]

To say that early prog had any relation to bringing world ideas to the fore such as you would see in Nigeria seems problematic. Playing in 7/8, which Neil did a lot in the day, was par for the course, esp after The Mahavishnu Orchestra brought Indian rhythms to the rock mainstream. Everybody needed to prove they could play in odd meters. Steve Reich was the master at bringing these ideas into percussion music; but his relation to the rock mainstream seems tangential at best. Zappa's experiments came more from the European avant-garde, esp Varese, and Cage. it would be interesting if you see some relation in Zappa to other world music ideas, esp if these were intentional.

But Ken, you might be making my point for me. I agree with all that. I used African drumming as only one specific example. The original discussion stemmed from the idea that Peart may have actually invented some of this, as opposed to uniquely pulling it into his music. What Peart did was a good thing, but neither the music or the concept were newly created or evolutionary. I also don't see why Peart admirers wouldn't be able to see that too while understanding that people appreciate the part of this he did incorporate.After all, how is not intentionally exagerating his accomplishments while bringing up what he actually did contribute disrespect?

Wasn't the opening of the bass drum that the bop drummers did a matter of practicality? As the music increased in speed they couldn't play all fours on the Bass drum. So it had ramifications in opening up the bass and opening up the harmonic implications of the piece; but I don't know that the drummers really had a part in that evolution as much as adapting to it. Please correct me if I am wrong here.

The opening of the bass drum was probably more a result of string bass evolution in jazz that came from amplification becoming more popular in the 1930s. Remember that those original jazz bands were using tubas until the string bass was able to be heard. From that came more nimble bass players who insisted on a greater piece of the action. Back in the day guys often rode the bass drum because they had to, because either the tuba was dragging, you couldn't hear the string bass, or in the case of the Benny Goodman small bands, they didn't even try to have one. Which brings us to the most copied version of all that///Gene Krupa. Fans copied that style long after it was needed because it was ///well, Gene Krupa. And you think Peart and Bonham fans are intense, go visit the Krupa board sometimes. As far as it being a tempo issue, I don't think so. Some of that KCity jam session stuff before bop was plenty fast.

[fixmejesus]

Moderator Edit: If you can't contribute to the conversation then please take your sarcasm somewhere else. Thanks!

[druid]

I think it would be silly to say any of these guys "invented" these styles.....look one of my first heros was Neil Peart....he opened me up to new ideas at the time....and then Bozzio...and then Coliauta...and so on and so on...and the whole thing never ends unless you want it to.

However....all of these guys have their influences which the more you listen and learn the easier they are to hear very clearly...

Peart...had alot of Moon...Bruford etc...
Bozzio...had alot of Tony in his younger years...has alot of everything now... much of his solo material is directly related to different ( to use a very generic term) world drumming and ethnic playing....African Middle East Far East etc....
Coliauta...Tony..Steve...etc..etc...even Stewart Copeland in his playing.

Much of what we all play is originally derived from African drumming...trace it and see....the more I have studied and played african drums the more apparent that is...many of the "new" cool things I heard Bruford doing with King Crimson in the 80s were african.

It is difficult enough to put a 'new shine on an old thing'...and sometimes it does seem there is nothing new under the sun...truly. But that is how I see all drummers ( myself included) as putting a new shine on something...and finding the magic within ourselves...the "create" something new or exciting.

the same could be said for many other disciplines other than music. Much of it has been done ....and later refined.

[supermac]

Originally Posted by mikei
He does look miserable or at least slightly constipated while playing. I always wished that he would "get into it" a bit more.

One of the things I love about Portnoy and Bonham. You can just tell how much fun they are having.


I think Neil's stern look is a matter of him concentrating on his busy drum parts, not the fact he isn't enjoying himself.

I saw Rush in the early 80s and even then he had this "stern" look.

I play myself in a bar band and people have said to me I look fed-up when I'm playing, when in fact nothing could be further from the truth and I'm merely, concentrating on my part.

[Drumsword]

If you like Snakes and Arrows great.



I picked up snakes and arrows not too long ago, and I must say I like it more then most of their other c.d's. Granted They have a lot of songs I will always love,( Dreamline, Distant Early Warning, tom sawyer, limelight, big money, etc etc) But as a whole I think "Snakes And arrows" is far more cohesive as a band then a lot of their past stuff has been and I like almost every song on it. Just my $0.02.

[Zumba_Zumba]

Wow.

I guess "invented" was the wrong term too. Perhaps "came up with" would have been better. Maybe not "applied" because I swear I never heard a drum beat like "Mystic Rhythms" or "Time Stand Still" before. Then again I am not as well rounded musically and culturally as some of my fellow posters. Some of you might like "bastardized" or "copped" implying that Neil took from various sources and brought the material to a much larger audience. Who knows, lots of interpretations....

The popular vote would have to come from the massive volume of Lang, Donati, Marco DVD sales and hits on Youtube (disregarding the comments). So I think there are numbers to back up my claim that the popular vote would be for Lang, Donati etc as being cutting edge on four-way interdependence and layered rhythms by a single player.

I like to think of the whole clinic versus real world music application as a car show. There are concepts that are far out but reveal ideas and indicate how far these ideas can go. But apply them to practical use of a mass-produced car and the concept most likely falls apart. However, some of the pieces of these far out concepts do make it into today's every-day cars. I like to think Neil had pieces of these drum concepts and placed them in a musical context that was in fact popular (again millions of records sold can't be wrong). Lang and Donati are sort of these far out concepts that don't necessarily reach the masses like Rush did, but still are reaching drum enthusiasts and showing what can be done with four-way independence. Let me know if anything else is incorrect, I love explaining every detail of my opinion. I'm going to go cry now ;)

[Deltadrummer]

But Ken, you might be making my point for me.


I was agreeing with you. I think there are certain points in the evolution of an art form where what is needed musically is synthesis, guys who bring together what has come before into a cohesive whole. There are other times when innovation is needed.

I have found that often when you discuss historical ideas, even the most widely accepted, with the people who make the history happen, they have no idea what you're talking about. "Oh, was I doing that?" and even if it seems obvious that that is what they were doing, they were not aware of it. It's like asking somebody,' "Why are you a genius?" There isn't any rational basis for it, it is just the way it is for them. :)

As far as extreme drumming, yes it has it's place. But if all you work on is material that you can't apply to a given musical situation, you're wasting your time. It is the guy who can make you melt when he plays a flam, or a simple rock beat that you want to hear. It's kind of ironic, isn't it?

[Steamer]

As far as extreme drumming, yes it has it's place. But if you can't apply what you know to a given musical situation, you're wasting your time on it. It is the guy who can make you melt when he plays a flam, or a simple rock beat that you want to hear. It's kind of ironic, isn't it?

This is the point I try to get across to students and a common trap with no musical end/purpose as I see it Ken. If we all focus more on how the things we choose to learn/play fit and make sense in an actual musical application/setting/concept we would all be better off in my view. Seperate monster chop fest/clinics and drum playing but with no clear purpose or understanding of how to apply any of it in "real life" musical situations is not doing any developing young player any good in my view in the long run. Just my opinion as as a "musical" drummer and working professional in acoustic jazz music situations.



Case in point:

Last night I had my first rehearsal with a new Big Band I just joined. Nothing that took place in the evening on the bandstand last night had anything to do with pure "all about the drums" killer drum chops per se but had everything to do with the challenge of interpreting and reading each chart and knowing just what to play as a drummer on the spot to best fit with the music and other musicians for each given chart on stage. This is what is important to me and requires some concentration and hard work and a sense of developing musical "ears" from the drummer that goes for me something far beyond seperate from actual performance killer chops at the end of the day but focused on how to use "chops" for setting the way for skills in the actual performance and context of a real band/musical situation.

[Deltadrummer]

This is the point I try to get across to students and a common trap with no musical end/purpose as I see it Ken. If we all focus more on how the things we choose to learn/play fit and make sense in an actual musical application/setting/concept we would all be better off in my view. Seperate monster chop fest/clinics and drum playing but with no clear purpose or understanding of how to apply any of it in "real life" musical situations is not doing any developing young player any good in my view in the long run. Just my opinion as as a "musical" drummer and working professional in acoustic jazz music situations.



Case in point:

Last night I had my first rehearsal with a new Big Band I just joined. Nothing that took place in the evening on the bandstand last night had anything to do with pure "all about the drums" killer drum chops per se but had everything to do with the challenge of interpreting and reading each chart and knowing just what to play as a drummer on the spot to best fit with the music and other musicians for each given chart on stage. This is what is important to me and requires some concentration and hard work and a sense of developing musical "ears" from the drummer that goes for me something far beyond seperate from actual performance killer chops at the end of the day but focused on how to use "chops" for setting the way for skills in the actual performance and context of a real band/musical situation.

Well, you noticed I change my post after I wrote it. I don't want to say that working on obtuse coordination has no value. But if you don't know chart reading, you need to be working on chart reading. A lot of that superfluous stuff is superfluous stuff; but it can help your drumming, though not if you haven't concentrated on the task at hand.

One of the things that I've been working on over the last year is playing something over and over trying to finder deeper nuances to make it meaningful. I can see this with my students. I know exactly when "Elvis has left the building." And I call them on it. I notice that this attention to detail has helped my playing. I can always tell the exact moment when a musician is thinking about "picking up his laundry." It's a basic premise in life. If you aren't enjoying it in the moment when it is happening, then when are you enjoying it? :)

People often see technique as chops, i.e. how fast you can play. I know we've talked about this before; but in my view, technique encompasses everything you do as a musician. I was teaching one of my students the Soca. He asked, "How do you get that consistent sound out of the snare drum part." I said, "Watch what I am doing; What is it?" He looked and said, "It is Moeller," and a light went on. I know that it too formalistic for some people; but it works for me.

[LM201]

I like Neil Peart. He was the one who got me into drumming.
He lived not to far from me when I was in California. About an hour and a half or so.
He was friends with my PE teacher so I got to shake his hand and talk to him for a like a second. We didn't really talk though... He was leaving so I just said I liked his books a lot and he's my biggest inspiration... yup. It was awesome

[mikeybbdrummin]

Anybody catch the Rush-hashana 24hr.marathon on VH1 last night?
Neil has been one of my favorites for eons. Still to this day, 30 years later, his drumming is great. I understand there are phenomenal drummers on the scene; Colaiuta, Weckl, Donati, Lang, Minnimen, Harrison, Mayer, Collins and more that are on a whole other level that people will say "(drummers name here) is better then Neil Peart." Only thing I could say is that I would imagine that, THAT drummer probably was influenced by Neil to some degree. Or at least respects him for his acomplishments. And I believe there are just as many guys that wanted/want to be Neil, that want to be Virgil, Marco or Thomas. And don't forget to give Neil credit for what he has accomplished in his 30+ year career, and not discredit him for what others can do that Neil cant or hasn't.

[LinearDrummer]

Anybody catch the Rush-hashana 24hr.marathon on VH1 last night?
Neil has been one of my favorites for eons. Still to this day, 30 years later, his drumming is great. I understand there are phenomenal drummers on the scene; Colaiuta, Weckl, Donati, Lang, Minnimen, Harrison, Mayer, Collins and more that are on a whole other level .


Wow how did I miss that....

Are you saying Phil Collins is on another level than Neil....don't get me wrong I think hes a good drummer but personally I don't think of his style as being very technical...except for the fact that he can sing and play at the same time which to me is crazy hard....