Pros and Cons of off set lugs?

[tugnut]

Is there really a huge difference? Or even the type of lug? I think point of contact with the shell makes a difference.

[dom]

pros none

cons will soon be out of style

[fourstringdrums]

Pro - Some like it

Con - Some don't like it

That's all it comes down to.

[punkdrummer1]

I find off-set lugs are a feature that come with alot of custom drum makers?

[fourstringdrums]

I find off-set lugs are a feature that come with alot of custom drum makers?

Just about every custom maker will let you choose offset lugs, but for an extra price.

[Raven Drums]

Just about every custom maker will let you choose offset lugs, but for an extra price.

Not this one....I don't do off set lugs. To me it is pointless and fadish. Thats just me.

[hateplow]

Not this one....I don't do off set lugs. To me it is pointless and fadish. Thats just me.

That's like saying powdercoated hardware or exotic veneer is pointless and fadish...
it's aesthetics, which is completely subjective.

[fourstringdrums]

Not this one....I don't do off set lugs. To me it is pointless and fadish. Thats just me.

So if a customer asked you to do it, you wouldn't just honor their request?

[Colonel Bat Guano]

Off-set lugs, not such a new trend. When has Tear-Drop Sonor not meant pure class?

http://www.sonormuseum.com/geeks/caciola/caciola.html

Yeah, I know it's all a function of the lug length and shell depth, but I'm just sayin'...

...

[mofle]

I think Sonor is the only brand that make some real classy off set snares:

http://www.woodbrass.com/images/woodbrass/SONOR+SNARE+AS1405MS.JPG

[goughy]

My 1969 jason 13 x 9 tom has offset lugs. Just a little offset. All I could think was because they would have been close to touching, but wouldn't have quite touched.

http://i228.photobucket.com/albums/ee26/clikchic/IMG0009web.jpg

[Raven Drums]

That's like saying powdercoated hardware or exotic veneer is pointless and fadish...
it's aesthetics, which is completely subjective.


Veneer...yes. Powercoating and offset NO! If you are going to color metal, the only CORRECT way is to plate it. Powercoating is cheap, looks cheap and gives you problems that are a result of cheap. Subjective or not, I don't do it, can't make me...:)~

[Raven Drums]

So that look retarded to you. I guess all taste are different. If a customer ask me to offset his lugs, well customer is right and I won't charge more for it.

Yes it does and even more so with the bird house doors on it...LOL

[Raven Drums]

So if a customer asked you to do it, you wouldn't just honor their request?

Would you ask DW or any other Drum company to offset their lugs? It's not an option on Raven Drums, so you go elsewhere. Not going to sell out just to sell out. I don't do this for the almighty dollar.

[hateplow]

So clarify for me, this is a "classy" finish? Some might disagree.
I'm playing devil's advocate here. Nothing personal. You are obviously talented.

[bojangleman]

what is so bad about it? i personally like it, and when i build my own set im gettin the offset lugs. but what will go out of style with it? if one person likes it, its still in style :p...haha

Alex

[Raven Drums]

So clarify for me, this is a "classy" finish? Some might disagree.
I'm playing devil's advocate here. Nothing personal. You are obviously talented.

For one, that is a specific line of snare drum. Not offered in kits and are collector items. And for those that want tattoo artwork instead of a color, fade/burst or wraps. Class... yes, appealing artwork to all...no. The hardware, layout and artwork all work together on that snare. Do you see offset lugs? Birdhouse vents? The artwork itself is what makes the drum different, not tweeking hardware around or throwing huge holes in the shell. Again, for drummers it subjective, for me it's building and a matter of some traditions of the drum and actual science into the workings (stresses placed on hardware, shell, hoops and heads) of the drums and what produces quality sound consistantly. I have yet to hear a drummer say he wouldn't play a drum because it didn't have offset lugs. It's looks over function for now, but that will get old too. So again, if your looking for something I don't offer (or agree with), you go elsewhere. I'm not going to compromise myself or work to try and please everyone, you can't do it. If you do offer every option under the sun, you will never get any work done. Out of 100 quotes given (and the majority are youthful), 80 will change there mind on the options more times then they change their clothes in a week, and not buy at all because they can't figure it out. We think that we want more options, but the majority actually want less, the few that want something drastic, usually are fickel and will change their wants shortly after getting what they thought they wanted. Mark my words, alot of what you are seeing done with drums today, will not last and be around. I have written them down and sealed them in an envelope. Ten years from now, we will see...LOL.

[fourstringdrums]

Would you ask DW or any other Drum company to offset their lugs? It's not an option on Raven Drums, so you go elsewhere. Not going to sell out just to sell out. I don't do this for the almighty dollar.

No because DW isn't a custom company and I know they don't offer that option. While it's fine that you dont' want to offer it either I would just think that going to someone who labels themselves as a custom builder, that if I wanted that option I'd be able to get it.

[Raven Drums]

No because DW isn't a custom company and I know they don't offer that option. While it's fine that you dont' want to offer it either I would just think that going to someone who labels themselves as a custom builder, that if I wanted that option I'd be able to get it.

Custom doesn't mean you offer ever possible option under the sun. Unix is a custom drum builder, but he doesn't offer ply shells, he does stave. You can be custom anything, but not everything...LOL. Also, although I CAN do some custom options, you don't see the word "custom" in Raven Drums for that very reason. People hear custom all too often and the word magically opens the door to endless possibilities, so it is thought and assumed. (By the way, DW started custom and still does custom work.)

[T.Underhill]

We are all so fortunate to have the authority on what defines "pure class" in the forums! I'm sure a lot of new features in the past were considered faddish at the time but might have stuck around to today. I don't hear a lot of people slamming Peart's brass or gold plated hardware...just to mention one example.

[T.Underhill]

It's not so much the opinion of the builder but of the people buying the product.

[fourstringdrums]

It's not so much the opinion of the builder but of the people buying the product.

"It's not what YOU like, it's the CONSUMER" - Joe Dirt

[zambizzi]

I, for one, like the offset lug look. If I approached a custom drum builder w/ the request of having offset lugs, or powder-coating, etc. and I was denied on the basis of it being "faddish" and "retarded", I would quickly end negotiations and find a less juvenile builder - someone willing to fulfill my requests. After all, it's the customer's dollar that is keeping you in business, not your sense of style. :)

Selling out!? *shakes head*

[Raven Drums]

I, for one, like the offset lug look. If I approached a custom drum builder w/ the request of having offset lugs, or powder-coating, etc. and I was denied on the basis of it being "faddish" and "retarded", I would quickly end negotiations and find a less juvenile builder - someone willing to fulfill my requests. After all, it's the customer's dollar that is keeping you in business, not your sense of style. :)

Selling out!? *shakes head*

Well if I told you it was faddish or retarded while dealing with you as a customer, then I would be an idiot, but thats not the case and that is not how I would talk to a customer. If they desire something that I don't do (regardless of why I won't do it), I will refer them to someone that will. I just had to refer someone yesterday because they wanted a feature that I don't do (because another company makes it's living from the look) and I don't infringe.

"After all, it's the customer's dollar that is keeping you in business, not your sense of style. :)"

From a consumers view point it would seem that way, but it's not the dollar that keeps me in business, it's BUILDING a product worth buying that keeps me in business. Fail there and the business fails. I don't have to sell to everyone to be successful. Those that end up with Raven Drums are given the best customer service, quality product and after care that can be given. There is stock to be taken in that to, not just a product.

Selling out!? *shakes head* What does selling out mean?

[Deathmetalconga]

No because DW isn't a custom company and I know they don't offer that option. While it's fine that you dont' want to offer it either I would just think that going to someone who labels themselves as a custom builder, that if I wanted that option I'd be able to get it.

I agree.

I personally don't like the look of offset lug snares. For some hardware and shell configurations, however, there is no other way to do it. The black one above looks really great and is about the best I've seen an offset lug type look.

I think it would be great to see a drum with offset lugs when it's not necessary to the build. On toms and basses of standard depth, offset lugs could look very very cool if done correctly. It would certainly break out of the ho-hum sameness of aligned lugs. More than any other instrument, drums lend themselves to customization and experimentation, yet there is a strong conservative element among builders and players. Heck, the construction of shells hasn't changed much in 150 years for almost all drums sold. I like to see people trying different things.

On a side note, I would only consider someone a drum builder if the make their shells. If they customize shells made by someone else, there's a drum customizer or finisher, not a builder, at least in my book.

[burnthehero]

I can only imagine lugs having an affect on the sound of a drum if they are too heavy, therefore not letting the shell resonate. As far as placement is concerned, it's all aesthetic.

[Raven Drums]

I remember that episode. Great show...watching on YouTube right now :)

I understand that companies may not want to do certain options but really, if the option is something simple like offset lugs (not a ply shell, a stave shell, powder coated hardware etc..) you would really turn away a potential customer because you wouldn't do it if the option was that much to them?

Offset may be simple, but it requires more time, measuring and adjustments to acheive. One drum, no problem... hundreds of drums...problem, turn around time goes out the window and waits get longer. Seems simple, but any simple problem or solution can be compounded. So, lets keep this simple. I don't do it, others do, you want that option, you go where that option exist. I can't please the world with every option that could be dreamed of, so if I can't (or won't) do it, someone else will... see, still simple.

[fourstringdrums]

Offset may be simple, but it requires more time, measuring and adjustments to acheive. One drum, no problem... hundreds of drums...problem, turn around time goes out the window and waits get longer. Seems simple, but any simple problem or solution can be compounded. So, lets keep this simple. I don't do it, others do, you want that option, you go where that option exist. I can't please the world with every option that could be dreamed of, so if I can't (or won't) do it, someone else will... see, still simple.

Well that's fair that you feel that way but I'd personally like to deal with a builder who will give me the options I want, even if that means charging a little extra for it. All hypothetical in this instance of course because I don't care for off-set lugs, I'm just trying to make a point that I think that if it's what will make the customer happy...

[Raven Drums]

On a side note, I would only consider someone a drum builder if the make their shells. If they customize shells made by someone else, there's a drum customizer or finisher, not a builder, at least in my book.

Well hell, lets not stop there, lets take it one step further...

If someone builds their own shells, but uses production hardware and not custom made hardware, their a ply/stave/segment constructing drum customizer/finisher, not a drum builder. (Raising the GN standard)

Not to step on any more toes then I have already in this thread...this is a joke people

[zambizzi]

Well if I told you it was faddish or retarded while dealing with you as a customer, then I would be an idiot...

Obviously, I meant more of an impression that you had a distaste for the style and therefore wouldn't be willing to oblige. It seems like a reasonable enough request. I'm playing devil's advocate along w/ fourstrings...this is all hypothetical.

I think I understand, it's an art vs. sale thing. You may not want something out there w/ your name on it that you don't consider your finest work...it's logical.


"After all, it's the customer's dollar that is keeping you in business, not your sense of style. :)"

From a consumers view point it would seem that way, but it's not the dollar that keeps me in business, it's BUILDING a product worth buying that keeps me in business.

Oh sure, I'm speaking from a simple standpoint of fulfilling demand, however. It is your customer's dollar keeping you in business. If they weren't there, you would have no means to continue building drums.

If you had a dozen customers call you asking for offset lugs, say out of a hundred...you've passed on 12% of those sales. That translates into pretty big bucks! You may have also passed on something far more valuable - word of mouth.

Anyhow, like any custom drum shop, it's not like you can satisfy every single detail in a timely manner...so that's understandable as well.

It's all good, man! You don't like 'em and won't do 'em....'nuff said. You do some amazing work, regardless.

[Deathmetalconga]

Well hell, lets not stop there, lets take it one step further...

If someone builds their own shells, but uses production hardware and not custom made hardware, their a ply/stave/segment constructing drum customizer/finisher, not a drum builder. (Raising the GN standard)

Not to step on any more toes then I have already in this thread...this is a joke people

I take it you don't make your shells ...

[Raven Drums]

I take it you don't make your shells ...

Yes I do, and I can make stave and segments too. I also do my own lugs in wood. Just hear that mentality all the time over at GN and it's plain silly.

[Raven Drums]

It's all good, man! You don't like 'em and won't do 'em....'nuff said. You do some amazing work, regardless.


Yep, all good. Thanks alot, nice to hear when your works appreciated. Not all do and thats fine too.

[Deathmetalconga]

Yes I do, and I can make stave and segments too. I also do my own lugs in wood. Just hear that mentality all the time over at GN and it's plain silly.

Well, I'm impressed - seriously - that you make your own shells and do different construction methods. I've never built a drum in my life.

I don't comprehend al the fine points of production hardware, custom hardware, analogies, etc. on the other forum. I just believe if someone makes their shell and finishes it, they're a drum builder. People who just make shells only, or people who finish others' shells, are not builders, I believe. That's not to put them down, simply to accurate state, in my humble opinion, what they appear to me to do. And a builder or a finisher or customizer is free to make or not make whatever they want.

[tugnut]

thanks for the feedback yo