16th note shuffles

[Deathmetalconga]

I have been trying to play 16th note shuffles, but it often degenerates into a two-handed triplets. I have to focus really hard to maintain the shuffle feel, but then it sounds stiff and lacks groove. Any suggestions? Who has mastered 16th note shuffles really well?

[aydee]

Had similar issues....

' Thinking Moeller' helped me smoothen out the 16th note hat pattern.i.e the wrist cocking and uncocking. That really took the tension out of constant 16ths. It also helped that with the moeller feel , if felt like half time, and therefore was'nt so much of a struggle.

I think one of Weckl's DVDs has a nice section on hand positions for the hi-hat.

Also 'thinking' triplets,( tri--pa--let-- tri-pa-let....) for some reason helped me keep my hand loose and consistent ,and not resort to a two handed short-cut..

.............was a kind of mental thing with me.

Here are some shuffle lessons : Bernard Purdie: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x9hq7IEqyKQ

Vinnie Colauita: not quite half-time, but fun to see the sub-divisions: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KhIr0gb6bpY

Zoro also demostrates the halftime shuffle brilliantly in the MODERN DRUMMER 2005 dvd.

[JackBennett]

I have been trying to play 16th note shuffles, but it often degenerates into a two-handed triplets. I have to focus really hard to maintain the shuffle feel, but then it sounds stiff and lacks groove. Any suggestions? Who has mastered 16th note shuffles really well?

Hey DMC, check this video out on Fool In The Rain (Bonham), I go through a popular technique for getting the half time shuffle to groove with the hihats/kit in general..

www.icanplaydrums.com/fool.wmv - its 40mb sorry - worth it i promise :)

[Wavelength]

Play your basic 8th note rock beat, and just think about the triplet subdivision. Then add some ghost notes on the snare and some kick drum variations -- all of them based on triplets! Once you're very comfortable with playing those subdivisions with your snare and your kick, try playing some of the upbeat notes in unison with the kick and the hi-hat -- accenting those notes on the hi-hat might help with the timing, but ideally you should keep the accents on each 8th note.

[Deathmetalconga]

Thanks for all of the advice, you guys. But I think I should have made it clearer that I'm trying to do these shuffles fairly fast, two-handed. I can do double and triplet shuffles single-handed just fine at moderate and low tempos. It's the two-handed, sustained 16ths at high-speed is what I'm trying to get a grip on. When I do that, it just degenerates into two handed triplets (lrLrlRlrLrlRlrLrlR). Sometimes I almost feel like I'm playing with the shuffle feel and it works in a weird way. But I think that kind of variation should come later and I should try to get the basic feel down first. Or am I off-track on this?

[IDDrummer]

Well, I've never used that beat, but experimenting a bit leads me to believe that using doubles may help. I used doubles, starting with the right on the downbeat so that it's available for the snare backbeat.On a pad I found it easier to maintain the right feel that way - it was like my hands were dancing back and forth easily. On the kit, it's a bit tricky to get the right hand back up to the hi-hat from the snare, but I think with practice it will give a good feel.

Try it and see what you think!

[slingerland755]

Hey DMC, check this video out on Fool In The Rain (Bonham), I go through a popular technique for getting the half time shuffle to groove with the hihats/kit in general..

www.icanplaydrums.com/fool.wmv - its 40mb sorry - worth it i promise :)

Jack,
You nailed it.

[aydee]

www.icanplaydrums.com/fool.wmv - its 40mb sorry - worth it i promise :)

It certainly is! great feel, and wonderfully explained!

[dea]

These two handed shuffles are just an exercise in dynamics coordination. Its more difficult to coordinate the dynamics between two hands than just one making this a wee-bit more complex to manage - but definitely doable with a little practice.

Slow it down and over-emphasize the swing beat with each hand. Also, really overshoot the accents to help solidy that swingy shuffle feel. When you begin to get solid, speed that puppy up and reel in the overemphasized swing beat+accents.

There's not magic.

Demir

[Deathmetalconga]

These two handed shuffles are just an exercise in dynamics coordination. Its more difficult to coordinate the dynamics between two hands than just one making this a wee-bit more complex to manage - but definitely doable with a little practice.

Slow it down and over-emphasize the swing beat with each hand. Also, really overshoot the accents to help solidy that swingy shuffle feel. When you begin to get solid, speed that puppy up and reel in the overemphasized swing beat+accents.

There's not magic.

Demir

You know, I never thought of it as an exercise in dynamics coordination, but it makes sense now that you mention it. Yes, it seems like it would be harder to coordinate with two hands than one hand, but for faster tempos, I don't think one hand could continue to accurately pump out 16th notes for five minutes. Assuming a pulse on the quarter note, at 100 bpm, that would be 400 strokes a minute, or 6 and 2/3 per second. Two hands seems to be the way to approach it.

[Bossa Nova]

www.icanplaydrums.com/fool.wmv - its 40mb sorry - worth it i promise :)

Yeah, that was really a good video. Way to break it down, but not at a snail's pace. Even though it was long, there was never a point where I got bored and wanted to turn it off. Thanks Jack.

[JackBennett]

Yeah, that was really a good video. Way to break it down, but not at a snail's pace. Even though it was long, there was never a point where I got bored and wanted to turn it off. Thanks Jack.

Thaks heaps guys for the kind replies! Glad you liked the vid, and Im glad now that I re did it. I'm off to a rehearsal now for a new band - drums, 2 trumpets, trombone and a tuba.. :S wish me luck!

[ILikeMacs]

Hey Jack - hope you read this

been readn all your posts and vids here on DW,, good stuff. wanted to say - im sure your aware lots of your Big Drum newsletters are on youtube, well did you know some guy is kind of posing as you?

someone called called "downview" shows your 13 stroke roll vid, then in the header under "more info" he goes visit onlinedrummer.com? who the hell is onlinedrummer.com? does he have any affiliation with you Jack? cos if not I would seriously be looking into this. He has like 30 of your videos in his profile and claims his Jack Bennett http://youtube.com/watch?v=KGMydj693io

in this one he using some pretty weird manners in the comments section an sayin "mate" as if to pose as an aussie. at least thats how i read it. see for yoself

http://youtube.com/watch?v=XcnN3XJRDqI&mode=related&search=

anyways im sure this isn't the first time something like this has happened on youtube!! you could always message downview and ask if he's really Jack Bennett! that would funny if he said yes! sort of..

keep doin what your doin man

[gusty]

Hey DMC, check this video out on Fool In The Rain (Bonham), I go through a popular technique for getting the half time shuffle to groove with the hihats/kit in general..

www.icanplaydrums.com/fool.wmv - its 40mb sorry - worth it i promise :)

Good video, and your drums sound amazing.

[nebula821]

EUREKA! thanks for the great video Jack! I don't think anyone has ever explained the hi-hat thing. I was hitting my hi-hat the same on every stroke! I think my shuffle will improve nicely. Thanks again.

[dharma bum]

Great video!! I'm off to practice it - maybe I can find a place to use it in my blues/rock gig tonight, ya never know.