Finding the balance

[Nergretty]

Hi,

During most of my drumming career I've mainly been a groove-based drummer in the sort of Jeff Porcaro tradition of drumming. However, lately I've been challenged to play more advanced stuff, in the Simon Phillips vein if you like. This has been a great challenge for me and tons of fun.

This leads me into the subject of balance and body posture. When playing mainly groove based music I never found balance to be a real problem. Ok, I used to throw in the odd tricky fill but nothing much. Now, having to play much more difficult patterns and fills I find the overall balance on the kit becomes a huge issue. Especially with intricate interplay between toms and bassdrum. Whenever I play a fill I like to keep my hihat going, either quarter notes or 8th notes. The thing I find most difficult is playing quarter notes on the hihat with a rocking toe-heel motion while playing a fill or pattern involving the floor toms and the bassdrum.

During these passages it seems even the slightest change of body position affects the way I'm able to control my bassdrum accuracy. Even more so when playing off beat notes on the bd. I realise this is something that needs a lot of practice but I wonder how effort less this can actually become, or is it against the natural flow to maintain full control of your left side whilst reaching to the far right of the kit etc.

I'm curious about any experiences and thoughts in this area.

Cheers
Nergy

[Nergretty]

Anyone?


(20 chars....)

[TitanSound]

Some input on this would be greatly appreciated by myself also. Come on people!

[aydee]

Hey N, besides being a drummer, I'm a golfer as well. and golf is all about maintaining posture and balance while your arms shoulders, legs are moving about or doing stuff.

The key is to find the right spine position, the right knee flex, and an overall sense of weight balance and relaxed readiness.

I try and apply that to my drumming. Stool height, the distance of the pedals to my feet, the angulation of the drums, cymbals, to my sitting position, all of this, I spend a lot of time working on, so that my body is always relaxed, no matter what I'm doing ( Billy Ward's done a great vid on this somewhere )

As far as pedals go I think every drummer has an ideal stool height/ pedal distance ratio, that would be perfect for him. I find that if the soles of my feet are in a flat position on the Bass drum pedal, but not quite pressing into the ground, thats ideal for me. Kind of like sitting on a ledge with your legs dangling somewhat. This allows my legs to stay relaxed and therefore the the rest of me stays in balance

As in golf, I think you have to move and adjust things around a bit, to find your unique comfort zone. good luck.

p.s. I would also review my set up , if I were you. You were comfy with groove playing and now youre stretching across the kit. Can the kit become more efficient to your new style of play? I'd experiment with that too.

[grue]

why not just build up the muscles needed to keep yourself balanced? i like to play steady slow 16ths on the double bass while moving my torso in a circular motion ala the "abdoer". notice how the slightest movement really affects how your feet react. after a while {hours not months or years} it will become a challenge to throw your feet off.

[That Guy]

Hi Nergretty. You are experiencing something that happens when drummers truly want to advance in thier passion. This is going to sound hokie but... gravity always wins. This is the reason for the awkward inability when playing unfamiliar grooves. Also, muscle memory isn't up to par with such movements too.

When I discovered the exact sensations that you are describing it really dampered my drumming. I found that it was impossible to pull off the creative ideas in my head and lay them down on my kit. It just seemed physically impossible. My limbs didn't want to move the way I needed them to.

Like you said... "I used to throw in the odd tricky fill but nothing much." I relate to that... but then I realized that I was pretty fortunate to even be pulling those off. You probably don't realize it, but those tricky fills are probably all that your posture could handle. If that makes sense.

Before I babble and make less sense any more let me get to my point. I started fighting against this impossible feat of what seemed like a "no win" battle against forcing myself to get my limbs moving the way I needed them to. I tried a kit adjustment, new throne, watching myself in a mirror. Nothing worked. I had no other choice but to slightly change my posture until I found something that worked. Thankfully I did. I found what I needed. As long as my back was straight and I didn't use my center mass to play, everything fell into place. I can describe it as a feeling that from your nipples to your lower spine feels as if there is no preassure being applied anywhere. Almost as if you are sitting on a cloud. But, I had to work at it. Shortly there after, I noticed the importance of being Straight & Centered allowing your limbs to do the work.

I had to continually fight with my posture to obtain it.

Hey AYDEE! I was out playing 18 the other day with some friends and I shot a 87. I have never done that well before. I am usually in the high 90's. The wind was about 3 out of the south, so I'm that the lack of wind sure helped... lol

[aydee]

[QUOTE=That Guy;

Hey AYDEE! I was out playing 18 the other day with some friends and I shot a 87. I have never done that well before. I am usually in the high 90's. The wind was about 3 out of the south, so I'm that the lack of wind sure helped... lol[/QUOTE]

Great going, TG ! that's kind of like my game, 8-12 over, average. Its funny what happens to scores if you make those 4-5 footers on the green, so I'm sure it was'nt the wind, lol.

I was once 2 over on the 17th tee when my partner asked me if that was the lowest round I'd ever shot.......... Sure enough, I tripled the 17th and 18th!

I hate this game.

Negretty, apologies for the golf digression.

[Nergretty]

Hey! I'm a golfer too. Play off 6 at the moment, been down to 4 at one point.

Yes, I know about the importance of the posture, as well as realising that any advance takes time.

I'm currently going through a period with intense practice every day. I haven't done that since the late 80-ties. I have progressed so much during this past year and have become a better drummer now than I ever was when I did this 100% for a living.

But spending all this time has further opened up the woderful micro-cosmos that drumming really can be.

I think that it will be diifficult to find one posture/set-up that will fit any style you want to play. If I want to groove like Jeff, I can't, for example, raise my thrown above 90 degrees knee angle. The feel is just not the same. But if I want to feel a Purdie like jazzier groove feel then that is fine.

I find it very challenging that I can work on things that don't immediately fall into place when you sit down to play them, and I like working on the minute details of drumming. Constantly working on the grip etc.

But, as far as set-up, there will probably be a compromise when reaching for the floor-tom furthest away. The posture at that stage is not ideal for the left foot heal-toe rocking. But I'm sure in the end it will feel totally natural.

To give an example of an exercise I do constantly at all sorts of tempos:

Keep quarternotes going on the hihat throughout, using the toe-heal rocking method. Play 8th notes on the ride or hihat with your right hand. Then with the left hand and bassdrum I play 16th notes (and some 32nd).

Two bars of each pattern:

LBLBLBLBLBLBLBLB

LLBBLLBBLLBBLLBB

LBLLBLBBLBLLBLBB

LBLLBLBBBLBBLBLL

LBBLBBLBBLBBLBBL

LBBLBBLBLBBLBBLB

LBBLLBBLLBBLLBBL

and 32nd notes

LLBBLLBBLLBBLLBBLLBBLLBBLLBBLLBB

Then move your left hand and play the same patterns on all the toms

Then switch so that you play the hihat (or ride) with your left and use your right hand to interplay with the bassdrum.

Cheers
Nergy