double strokes(sorry, another threat)

[Wernervonwaltsleben]

hey guys.
today a drumming teacher told me that a double stroke must always be like this.first hit is a light sort of accidental hit and the second one a snap so that its louder.
i know it makes sense, it sounds more musical if the second hit from every hand sounds louder but is that how a double stroke must be.
all the vids i have seen its just two normal hits with each hand.
and does anybody maybe have a good video link for double stroke and stick grip doing it.
thanx alot

[Raymond Bloom]

actually, a double stroke as a rudiment is r r l l r r l l... without any accents

R r L l R r L l is a double stroke variation, called bounce roll

and then there is the third variation, with every second stroke accented, but basically, a double stroke roll should be with all the strokes at the same dynamics.


About accenting the second stroke, it's hard to explain, I even developed a hybrid technique for this, try to do it really slow, so you can analize your movement and hear the sound perfectly, so you know you're doing it right!

[IDDrummer]

The drumming teacher is incorrect if he said that the double stroke roll must ALWAYS be played that way. Maybe he was suggesting that practicing this way will encourage a cleaner roll?

[Legacyrik]

The drumming teacher is incorrect if he said that the double stroke roll must ALWAYS be played that way. Maybe he was suggesting that practicing this way will encourage a cleaner roll?

Yes I agree, he is probably making you do this excercise to work on getting the second stroke stronger.

[jeffwj]

The technique you described is actually the standard way of reciting the double stroke roll as notated by the NARD (National Association of Rudimental Drummers.) This association is no longer in existence, but their style of practicing the roll lives on. See link - example number one.
http://images.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://www.bgdrumstudio.com/sitebuilder/images/NARD_Rudiments_14-26-700x940.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.bgdrumstudio.com/Rudiments.html&h=940&w=700&sz=207&hl=en&start=14&um=1&tbnid=Ra1XIIqgxlNdfM:&tbnh=148&tbnw=110&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dnard%2Brudiments%26svnum%3D10%26um%3D 1%26hl%3Den%26sa%3DN

As you will notice, the accented secondary beat disappears once the rudiment gets faster. George Lawrence Stone discussed this principle in his second book, Accents and Rebounds. He compared the secondary stroke to a chain - a chain is only as strong as it's weakest link. Therefore, the stronger the secondary beat, the more consistent the roll.

When I teach, I often explain the history of the accented double stroke to take away such confusion. The roll should be machine-gun like when played at a performance tempo. The accented secondary beat is just a means to an end.

Hope this helps,
Jeff

[jayp]

Again, he probably is doing this to form good technique, Usually beginners tend to just bounce the stick into the head causing two strokes, but what you will notice is the first stroke is played correct and but the second is just a bouce and is not at the same dynamic volume as the first.

So what your teacher is having you do is work on getting the second stroke even with the first. By learning how to accent the second stroke so that when performing a double stroke roll your giving the second stroke a little more "umpf" so volumes stay the same instead of getting a rebounded hit that sounds uneven.

[Wernervonwaltsleben]

yeah, he told me to let the stick fall, like accidental type of feeling and then snap the second one, closing the hand letting the stick do a more powerful second stroke.it sounds awesome when he did it.im just always looking at the sitck grip when going fast.must i try keeping my grip the same (german for me) as possible.or is there a slight change, like thumb more up or something.

[Raymond Bloom]

im just always looking at the sitck grip when going fast.must i try keeping my grip the same (german for me) as possible.or is there a slight change, like thumb more up or something.
I wouldn't advice to concentrate just on one grip, I use all the possible matched grip positions for my right hand and different trad grip positions for my left hand

when playing doubles, my right hand goes back and forth from French grip to German grip, I even learned how to do it in a continuous roll:
http://youtube.com/watch?v=thbqlq1ve9g

[NUTHA JASON]

derek gives a good lesson on this (djp). he says the strong second stroke should be a means to getting an even roll at speed where, if not careful, our second stroke suffers. training the second 'snap' makes you concentrate on it as a note and builds your quick twitch muscle to be able to execute it at speed. see derek's videos in the DW clinic section.

j

[Legacyrik]

derek gives a good lesson on this (djp). he says the strong second stroke should be a means to getting an even roll at speed where, if not careful, our second stroke suffers. training the second 'snap' makes you concentrate on it as a note and builds your quick twitch muscle to be able to execute it at speed. see derek's videos in the DW clinic section.

j

I believe another way of reinforcing this is by inverting the double stroke:
rllrrllr

Again, trying to strengthen the second stroke of the double is the goal.

[NUTHA JASON]

yes. i agree. i use this exercise from steve smith:

R R L L R R L L R R L L R R L L
R L L R R L L R R L L R R L L R
L L R R L L R R L L R R L L R R
L R R L L R R L L R R L L R R L

[LinearDrummer]

yes. i agree. i use this exercise from steve smith:

R R L L R R L L R R L L R R L L
R L L R R L L R R L L R R L L R
L L R R L L R R L L R R L L R R
L R R L L R R L L R R L L R R L

Way back when I studied with Rick Latham he gave me the same exercise....

Soooo who gets the copyright royalties for it :)

[jeffwj]

Way back when I studied with Rick Latham he gave me the same exercise....

Soooo who gets the copyright royalties for it :)

It's is in Gerorge Lawrence Stone's book Accents and Rebounds. At least the basic idea of displacing the double is there (RL LR RL LR etc...)