How Do You Play A China Cymbal Anyway?

[ZildjianMan1023]

ok ok.. im thinking of investing in a china cymbal.. fairly large around 18 inches or so..


so the question is.. how do you play one? and i dont mean strike it.. i mean where to throw it in

are you supposed to use it for beats and accents..

Or just accents?


Dom

[Class A Drummer]

You can hit it whenever you want. Its just preferance. It is the exact same think with other cymbals and drums. When you feel it would sound better to hit that over anything else, you do it.

[ZildjianMan1023]

You can hit it whenever you want. Its just preferance. It is the exact same think with other cymbals and drums. When you feel it would sound better to hit that over anything else, you do it.

right.. thanks man!

Vingt Vingt Vingt Vingt

[shuffle]

I don't own a china, but the house kit where we rehearse has one. While I usually replace the house kit's cymbals with my own, I sometimes keep the china to see what I can come up with. Well, I usually... don't achieve anything good.

I almost gave up with chinas, until I recently saw Chad Wackerman playing with Alan Holdsworth. He used his china a lot, with great taste and various dynamic, often in the most unexpected moments. That kinda gave me some hope, but still, I believe good china cymbals usage, in any musical context, is pretty hard to master.

[fourstringdrums]

I have a Stanton Moore Trash Crash (close enough...it sounds like a raw china) and I'll use it for accents, riding, or explosive crashes.

[maddrummr]

I use it for that random spur of the moment thing where nobody sees it coming. Throws people off yet they say "Hey that was pretty sweet!"

It sounded cool when i had my felts when I brought my tenor drums home for the summer and rolled on the china.

[Big_Philly]

I use it in heavy breaks and fills.

[aydee]

.........WITH CHOPSTICKS, OF COURSE!!!!!!!!!!!!


sorry could'nt resist.

I dont thing there's a way to play it. It has very different sonic properties from traditional rides and crashes, so the way you hit it usually is a little different from the way you might hit your other cymals..experiment.

I find it interesting to hit my china boy ( the cymbal, of course ) with the middle of my stick, which gives it a nice clang.

[Therma lobsterdore]

I see/use china's alot in metal, especially during blasting sections where there used to create a very jarring, wall of noise kind of effect. I just use them as I would any other cymbal in other forms of music though.

[That Guy]

I usually incorporate it along with snare hits. Just adds a little more *umph!* to the sound. Examaple: if your playing a 4/4 use it on the 2 and 4, or just use it on the 2, or just use it on the 4. Thats not a rule, but just an example.

[intooder]

I use it mostly for heavy riding or for a quick bomb. I usually set it up to the right of my ride (righty kit), same angle as the ride, but a little higher, so there's some overlap.

[cnw60]

best played with chopsticks - "insert rimshot here"

but seriously - once you get it, you have to experiment and see what works. Personally - I believe that a little bit goes a long way. A classic thing is to play an off-beat ride on it.

Mine doesn't sound very good when played soft - you have to hit the thing (with the shoulder of the stick too, tip sounds too weak).

[a1DrummerT]

whenever you want...there is theory, but other than that there is no right or wrong way to play anything if it makes a groove/beat..whatever

[the skin man]

I play it a lot more in the middle of fills than at the end.

[Drum-Head]

You can also ride on a china for a powerful effect in a metal context, attached is an example that I recorded earlier on while I was learning a riff (sorry for the sound quality I did this just to pace myself not really to share). Just another example of how you can incorporate such a cymbal...

I say experiment and you'll see that many ideas (hopefully more interesting that what I did here lol!) will come along.

[Wegadrummer]

Yep, A china gives your sound some extra crisp.. If you are doing big fills for and end of an verse etcetc. I have a Zildjian 16 Oriental, works fine because it isnt so big.. Take Ian Paice for example, you got to love his china work.. just an example.

[Mr. Brownstone]

Listen to some old Billy Cobham. Lots of ideas.

[grue]

i play them the same way they play them in china and usually the reason differs but the logic is the same.

[aydee]

i play them the same way they play them in china and usually the reason differs but the logic is the same.

LOL, ...very carefully....Not like Turkish cymbals, which you could swat or crush........

[dblinkhorn]

There are all kinds of applications for a china cymbal. The most common way I use it is to alternate between it and my ride as eighth notes during a heavier-sounding chorus or something that requires a heavier sound. Sometimes I will hit the china on the beat, and sometimes I'll hit it off-beat (which sounds even better in most cases!). To make this more clear, if I'm playing eighth notes then the first note of the chorus, let's say, will be on the ride, and the second note will be on the china, third on the ride, fourth on the china, etc.

[slingerland755]

Less is more. I love my china but I use is sparingly.

[Drummer30]

Chinas, as I see it, are used more for the accented and aggressive parts of playing. You don't often see a jazz drummer riding on a china, right? You can ride on it at the intro to a song to get it going hard from the start, to accent certain parts of a groove or in fills. Listen to harder rock and metal genres to get a better taste. I love the way Neil Peart uses his chinas (especially on the new record), but my great appreciation for his music is probably a bias there. Make them fit your style, there are no set rules for the use of it so just dabble with it here and there.

[danander11]

I love the china.. I have an 18" high that I use in many ways.. with the snare for a big hit, out on it's own for contrast.. but most of the stuff I do I stole from Neil Peart.. the ride/china alternating thing.. using the tip of the stick and not bashing the china.. almost like the ride bell.. so many things you can do with it.. Listen to New World Man by Rush.. that is a cool and simple way to use it...

I sometimes like to try and throw the bass player by using a grouping of 3's.. ride.. china (lightly)... splash... it's a polyrhythmical feel that is fun to do.. try 8th notes then 16th notes.. the look on their face is priceless.. (Drummers can be mean people sometimes) :-D

[the skin man]

You don't often see a jazz drummer riding on a china, right?

Sometimes you do. Not often, your right, and it seems like they just don't work as well for jazz as effect cymbals either. Here's one that might:


http://cymbalsonly.com/cymbals/paiste/s/t/22ptlsw2038a.mp3

[zambizzi]

Personally, I don't use one enough to justify keeping one around and having a need for yet another stand in my setup.

I had a beautiful K Custom Dark 19" and sold it about 3 mo. later...it just hung there like a hood ornament...too loud to use all that often.

I may get a Paiste Novo China someday...I like the sound of those babies.

[mofle]

You don't often see a jazz drummer riding on a china, right?

Heres Gregg Bissonette playing with the BR. Big band, he uses a china (or is it a swish) about 1/4 out. It is probably not the way wou were thinking of, though...
Gregg Bissonette - Mellow (http://www.drummerworld.com/Videos/greggbissonettemellow.html.html)

[Drum-Head]

I'll have to go back and look at this again but if I'm not mistaken before having ride cymbals, jazz drummers used to drive on chinas. I think I saw this on Steeve Smith's History of the U.S Beat. Don't hold me on this though!

[Drummer30]

Alright well to revise my statement from above, it isn't a common event to see a jazz drummer pounding out accents on a harsh, loud china. There are many types of chinas such as the swishier sounding ones the likes of jazz drummers use, to loud ear destroying ones that metal drummers would use.

Thanks for clearing that one up, let us know Drum-Head, I'm interested in the whole riding the china in jazz part. Would make for an interesting sound.

[Drum-Head]

Sure, will do - I'll get back to you on that a bit later on.

[ddrummer]

i think china's should only be used for accents they only sound god every now and then..... in my opinion they sound like a really cheap crappy cymbol if you play them like a set of hats......

[handito]

hey
I would use them as a snap accent together with the snare. I have never used a china but recently I have been quite into Jimmy Chamberlin's work with the Smashing Pumpkins he use alot of china hits and that has inspired me alot

[pbm2112]

Before you buy a china, check out an Sabian HHX evolution O-Zone crash (I prefer the 16") - amazing for accents and riding. They aren't as abrasive or clangy (techincal word!) as many chinas, and I found that I could use it a lot more than any china I've owned. It'll really take a beating too!!!

[sio_13]

I try not to use a china too much, but I have an 18" and a 12"- the 18 is used more for snare accentsand rides, and the 12 is used for quick cymbal fills either befor or after splash and hat accents.

[Erik Lund]

By keeping it in your cymbal bag.

[Nahuel]

If you are a metal drummer there are some examples of how a china can be played. For example don't say a word (sonata arctica), amaranth (nightwish) and skin ticket (slipknot), bah, maybe all the slipknot tracks.
A ride/china alternation isn't as powerful as a hi-hat/china alternating thing, or maybe a crash/china thing. Well, it depends on the likes of the drummer.

[ZildjianMan1023]

If you are a metal drummer there are some examples of how a china can be played. For example don't say a word (sonata arctica), amaranth (nightwish) and skin ticket (slipknot), bah, maybe all the slipknot tracks.
A ride/china alternation isn't as powerful as a hi-hat/china alternating thing, or maybe a crash/china thing. Well, it depends on the likes of the drummer.

yeah.. i just thought it would be cool to ride a china.. i didnt know if it would sound good or not


dont like slipknot though but ill check it out

[drumbent]

I'll have to go back and look at this again but if I'm not mistaken before having ride cymbals, jazz drummers used to drive on chinas. I think I saw this on Steeve Smith's History of the U.S Beat. Don't hold me on this though!

Many of the early Swing drummers used a china as a ride, because that was the only type one could get in a large enough size for riding. For instance, when Krupa played with Benny Goodman the largest Zildijian he had was a 16"! I think his hi-hats were only 11". See a clip of him from this era playing Sing Sing Sing (overdubbed for the movie) here:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j9J5Zt2Obko (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j9J5Zt2Obko)

Dave Tough used a china ride when he was with Woody Herman in the mid-40's, though it's hard to make out on those scratchy low-fidelity recordings (I've read many references to him driving the band with it on the shout choruses). I just found a short clip of him, and while you can't really hear it you can see it when the camera is on him.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gB73A4GbAdQ

I recall reading that for a long time Dizzy Gillespie had a favourite china cymbal that he owned and made his drummers use whenever he soloed. The china's generally lower-pitched ride sound went under the trumpet frequency-wise, and did not compete with it as a higher, pingier cymbal might. Mel Lewis also mentioned this in an interview, saying that one should use a lower pitched cymbal under a high pitched instrument for the same reason.

Here's a clip of Buddy Rich using a Swish Knocker[/URL] as a crash in '82. He only starts smacking it towards then end, but it gives a good boot to the momentum of the song:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y_4msa-57LE

I use an old Sabian "Flat Chinese" (equivalent to Zildjian's "Pang") as a third ride on my jazz kit (other two are a 20" K ride and a 20" Paiste 2002 flat ride), for the same reason stated by Dizzy and Mel.

Mark